#RedditRevolt

Barothmuk · July 5, 2015

The amount of prejudice (and possibly ignorance) in this thread is a little surprising to me. What's made the lot of you hate reddit so much?

Hideous site layout.

Zoraptor · July 5, 2015

Its non functional/ non intuitive site layout is worse than it being hideous, I'd say. It's pretty much a browser based late 90s gui for usenet ((Free)Agent or similar) with added up and down votes and reduced functionality.

Don't really care much about reddit one way or the other in terms of the site itself, I read stuff there sometimes and it's unnecessarily janky but ultimately that's a fairly minor complaint.

Bartimaeus · July 5, 2015

It's as moderated as the moderators want to spend time moderating it. Obviously, for the larger subs, it's harder to maintain a cohesive subreddit culture a la what you'd find here on the Obsidian forums, where you probably have sub-100 active posting users (particularly if we're considering different sections analogous to different subreddits: then the number is surely even lower for individual sections). That's the result of having thousands to tens of thousands of active posters...and that's why you branch out to smaller and more tight-knit subreddits. Besides for really rare cases, I never bother posting in the larger subreddits, because there's no sense of community and unless you're one of the first posters into a topic, basically nobody's going to read your post, anyways. Smaller subreddits, functionality and community-wise, are often pretty analogous to a forums like these...it's just a matter of finding them.

Reddit serves as a great collection of little communities that you can integrate yourself into: if I want to discuss Frozen 2 years after it's released because I just watched it for the first time recently, reddit is pretty much the only forum-type website where I could possibly do that that's going to have any amount of activity...because though the Frozen subcommunity will be small by reddit standards, reddit is huge, and it doesn't take too much effort to stay "current" with smaller subreddits that are a little slower than others...and if something interest pops up, a bunch of people will still see it and be able to interact with each other...whereas a forums-website specifically dedicated to Frozen will surely have died off by now. Furthermore, due to the mechanics of reddit, subreddits aren't usually as susceptible to "forum politics" as much as actual forums...since it's much easier to hold people - even moderators - responsible for their insane actions/opinions via downvotes. This, in itself, sometimes has problems, but in my opinion, usually does a decent job at hiding stuff most decent people don't want to see and highlighting, at the very least, O.K. stuff. And if you want the stuff that's controversial, well, it's usually still there if not actually breaking the rules of reddit and/or the subreddit - just go down.

"When people are allowed to say what they want with no sense of consequence they start to believe what they are saying and this leads to anti-social behavior and perspectives"

They are held accountable: by moderators and by user downvotes: that's more accountable than you'd ever find on a forum like this, where people like Volourn are able to launch personal attacks constantly and with seemingly zero consequences...so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Reddit has problems, certainly...but so would any large website with its gigantic number of users in the larger subreddits. That's why you go to the smaller ones...and the ones not directly related to size are different, but IMO equal, problems compared to any forums.

(e): English, more thoughts.

Fair enough, you make some good points in support of reddit. I can understand why people would want to create an unusual or possibly older discussion like that example you gave about Frozen 2. You wouldn't have the same number of people participating in that type of discussion if you created a thread like that on these forums

So then what went wrong in your opinion? It seems that the reddit admins don't really understand the relevance or importance of the moderators that maintain the smaller discussions and subreddits ? Is that why there is "reddit revolt " from some forums ?

Small correction to what I said: I was actually trying to say Frozen...2 years after it was released. Not Frozen 2...years after it was released. Doesn't really matter, but Frozen 2 hasn't, you know, released yet or anything.

I think a number of things went wrong...and are continuing to go wrong. Funnily enough, what Zoraptor and Barothmuk kind of mention one aspect of it: the terrible functionality of the website...though not quite in the way I think they were talking about. Moderators have to install third party plugins for their browsers to be able to moderate beyond anything besides basic functions. I didn't know this until recently, but apparently they've been complaining about this for years, with the administrators consistently promising change but delivering nothing. Another problem is the issue of censorship...the former CEO of reddit, some guy named Yishan, said that the stated ideal of reddit was to be a free speech platform. The current administration, under CEO Ellen Pao, has gone against this, saying that it is not meant to be a free speech platform. Even though this wasn't really true, in my opinion, even with the previous administration, they've certainly kicked things up a notch or two since, banning subs that are determined to be "harassing"...and being extremely inconsistent in doing so. I have mixed feelings about this: on one hand, I don't like those harassment subs myself...but I don't think they should be Big Brothered. I also think that a company like reddit should have the ability to clean itself up of content that it, and most normal people, would find reprehensible.

What I would've preferred to have seen is removal of such offending subs from ever being visible from the /r/all front page (essentially, the page where all subreddits can be visible depending on some upvote/time created formula...which is the page that guests users see when they visit...as opposed to what is simply called the "front" page, which is personalized based on what subreddits you're subscribed to as a logged in user): not only would this clean up the site, it would decrease the likelihood of new subscribers/content for those subs. It also would've likely prevented the huge crapstorm calling out reddit for its censorship as well as its inconsistency: the subs that were banned were vile, yes, but there were many more just like them that have still not been touched in any way since. As a result of these complications, the userbase was kind of split on whether the subs being banned was a good thing or not: some thought free speech (to a point) trumped whatever reasons for banning them were, others hated the content so much they were simply glad that it was gone and weren't really interested in any such implications.

Then there was the fact that Victoria, almost absolutely the favorite admin for being an apparently genuinely wonderful person as well as actually critical to some subreddits...the very large default subreddit iama as well as smaller subreddits who would do similar things and employ Victoria's services...was fired for reasons still not yet explained, and absolutely no communication about it was conveyed by the admins to the moderators who required her services in order for events in their subs to work. Furthermore, the admins have been pretty unhelpful even since the crapstorm: took a look at kirottu's post above, where you can see the head admin basically try and strongarm the ~~iama~~ science mods (who were going to do an AMA with Stephen Hawking before Victoria got fired) without offering any real information or *anything* concrete in return for cooperating. (EDIT: If you're having trouble reading that image, uh...I can't blame you. Took me a bit, too. Pay attention to the "to" and "from" fields: red kn0thing is the admin, the green users are the moderators, and when the message itself is green, it means the moderator is sending a message to that user. There are still a few odd bits - like, why does the admin repeat lines of what the moderator says and then stick on additional bits - but that should help.) Just stupid behavior on the parts of the admins. FURTHERMORE, what was probably the SECOND favorite admin was also fired recently...and for, get this...having cancer. That admin ran the reddit secret santa program, which you can Google if you want more information about, as well as this story, if you wish. Finally, Ellen Pao, the CEO, keeps going onto news sites like buzz feed and trying to downplay the events that recently transpired, as well as the complaints of the userbase, saying that it was "minor", and that most users did not really care about all of this. I don't know how much truth to that there is, but the fact of the matter is, you shouldn't be saying crap like that as the CEO of one of the largeset websites in the world...that just got more or less incapacitated by those so-called "minor" issues/complaints. Bah.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Bartimaeus

BruceVC · July 5, 2015

It's as moderated as the moderators want to spend time moderating it. Obviously, for the larger subs, it's harder to maintain a cohesive subreddit culture a la what you'd find here on the Obsidian forums, where you probably have sub-100 active posting users (particularly if we're considering different sections analogous to different subreddits: then the number is surely even lower for individual sections). That's the result of having thousands to tens of thousands of active posters...and that's why you branch out to smaller and more tight-knit subreddits. Besides for really rare cases, I never bother posting in the larger subreddits, because there's no sense of community and unless you're one of the first posters into a topic, basically nobody's going to read your post, anyways. Smaller subreddits, functionality and community-wise, are often pretty analogous to a forums like these...it's just a matter of finding them.

Reddit serves as a great collection of little communities that you can integrate yourself into: if I want to discuss Frozen 2 years after it's released because I just watched it for the first time recently, reddit is pretty much the only forum-type website where I could possibly do that that's going to have any amount of activity...because though the Frozen subcommunity will be small by reddit standards, reddit is huge, and it doesn't take too much effort to stay "current" with smaller subreddits that are a little slower than others...and if something interest pops up, a bunch of people will still see it and be able to interact with each other...whereas a forums-website specifically dedicated to Frozen will surely have died off by now. Furthermore, due to the mechanics of reddit, subreddits aren't usually as susceptible to "forum politics" as much as actual forums...since it's much easier to hold people - even moderators - responsible for their insane actions/opinions via downvotes. This, in itself, sometimes has problems, but in my opinion, usually does a decent job at hiding stuff most decent people don't want to see and highlighting, at the very least, O.K. stuff. And if you want the stuff that's controversial, well, it's usually still there if not actually breaking the rules of reddit and/or the subreddit - just go down.

"When people are allowed to say what they want with no sense of consequence they start to believe what they are saying and this leads to anti-social behavior and perspectives"

They are held accountable: by moderators and by user downvotes: that's more accountable than you'd ever find on a forum like this, where people like Volourn are able to launch personal attacks constantly and with seemingly zero consequences...so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Reddit has problems, certainly...but so would any large website with its gigantic number of users in the larger subreddits. That's why you go to the smaller ones...and the ones not directly related to size are different, but IMO equal, problems compared to any forums.

(e): English, more thoughts.

Fair enough, you make some good points in support of reddit. I can understand why people would want to create an unusual or possibly older discussion like that example you gave about Frozen 2. You wouldn't have the same number of people participating in that type of discussion if you created a thread like that on these forums

So then what went wrong in your opinion? It seems that the reddit admins don't really understand the relevance or importance of the moderators that maintain the smaller discussions and subreddits ? Is that why there is "reddit revolt " from some forums ?

Small correction to what I said: I was actually trying to say Frozen...2 years after it was released. Not Frozen 2...years after it was released. Doesn't really matter, but Frozen 2 hasn't, you know, released yet or anything.

I think a number of things went wrong...and are continuing to go wrong. Funnily enough, what Zoraptor and Barothmuk kind of mention one aspect of it: the terrible functionality of the website...though not quite in the way I think they were talking about. Moderators have to install third party plugins for their browsers to be able to moderate beyond anything besides basic functions. I didn't know this until recently, but apparently they've been complaining about this for years, with the administrators consistently promising change but delivering nothing. Another problem is the issue of censorship...the former CEO of reddit, some guy named Yishan, said that the stated ideal of reddit was to be a free speech platform. The current administration, under CEO Ellen Pao, has gone against this, saying that it is not meant to be a free speech platform. Even though this wasn't really true, in my opinion, even with the previous administration, they've certainly kicked things up a notch or two since, banning subs that are determined to be "harassing"...and being extremely inconsistent in doing so. I have mixed feelings about this: on one hand, I don't like those harassment subs myself...but I don't think they should be Big Brothered. I also think that a company like reddit should have the ability to clean itself up of content that it, and most normal people, would find reprehensible.

What I would've preferred to have seen is removal of such offending subs from ever being visible from the /r/all front page (essentially, the page where all subreddits can be visible depending on some upvote/time created formula...which is the page that guests users see when they visit...as opposed to what is simply called the "front" page, which is personalized based on what subreddits you're subscribed to as a logged in user): not only would this clean up the site, it would decrease the likelihood of new subscribers/content for those subs. It also would've likely prevented the huge crapstorm calling out reddit for its censorship as well as its inconsistency: the subs that were banned were vile, yes, but there were many more just like them that have still not been touched in any way since. As a result of these complications, the userbase was kind of split on whether the subs being banned was a good thing or not: some thought free speech (to a point) trumped whatever reasons for banning them were, others hated the content so much they were simply glad that it was gone and weren't really interested in any such implications.

Then there was the fact that Victoria, almost absolutely the favorite admin for being an apparently genuinely wonderful person as well as actually critical to some subreddits...the very large default subreddit iama as well as smaller subreddits who would do similar things and employ Victoria's services...was fired for reasons still not yet explained, and absolutely no communication about it was conveyed by the admins to the moderators who required her services in order for events in their subs to work. Furthermore, the admins have been pretty unhelpful even since the crapstorm: took a look at kirottu's post above, where you can see the head admin basically try and strongarm the ~~iama~~ science mods (who were going to do an AMA with Stephen Hawking before Victoria got fired) without offering any real information or *anything* concrete in return for cooperating. (EDIT: If you're having trouble reading that image, uh...I can't blame you. Took me a bit, too. Pay attention to the "to" and "from" fields: red kn0thing is the admin, the green users are the moderators, and when the message itself is green, it means the moderator is sending a message to that user. There are still a few odd bits - like, why does the admin repeat lines of what the moderator says and then stick on additional bits - but that should help.) Just stupid behavior on the parts of the admins. FURTHERMORE, what was probably the SECOND favorite admin was also fired recently...and for, get this...having cancer. That admin ran the reddit secret santa program, which you can Google if you want more information about, as well as this story, if you wish. Finally, Ellen Pao, the CEO, keeps going onto news sites like buzz feed and trying to downplay the events that recently transpired, as well as the complaints of the userbase, saying that it was "minor", and that most users did not really care about all of this. I don't know how much truth to that there is, but the fact of the matter is, you shouldn't be saying crap like that as the CEO of one of the largeset websites in the world...that just got more or less incapacitated by those so-called "minor" issues/complaints. Bah.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. You have given me some new views and insights :thumbsup:

ktchong · July 9, 2015

ktchong · July 10, 2015

ktchong · July 10, 2015

Official announcement at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cucye/an_old_team_at_reddit/

Ellen Pao resigned from reddit today by mutual agreement. I'm delighted to announce that Steve Huffman, founder and the original reddit CEO, is returning as CEO....

Edited July 10, 2015 by ktchong

Meshugger · July 10, 2015

But that's something-ist!

Wrath of Dagon · July 12, 2015

David Burge ‎@iowahawkblog

Thanks to Ellen Pao, Asian-Americans will no longer be saddled with the insidious stereotype of being bright, hardworking and competent.

David Burge ‎@iowahawkblog

Anybody know of $500k+ tech industry job openings for a lawsuit-happy SJW with no technical experience? Asking for a friend

Bartimaeus · July 12, 2015

How are these inflammatory remarks helping the situation, exactly? Such nonsense from those on both sides...

Gorgon · July 12, 2015

i bet she got a really handsome golden handshake.

HoonDing · July 12, 2015

No wonder ISIS are conquering the world.

Bartimaeus · July 13, 2015

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/3d3hrp/exex_ceo_yishan_i_actually_asked_that_he_be_on/

I'm not sure I can handle Reddit anymore.

#BringBackPao?

Keyrock · July 13, 2015

Out of curiosity, is Reddit a big deal? Serious question, I never go there purposely and whenever I happen by it the formatting of the front page dissuades me from delving deeper, hence I don't really know what the place is about.

GhoulishVisage · July 13, 2015

Out of curiosity, is Reddit a big deal? Serious question, I never go there purposely and whenever I happen by it the formatting of the front page dissuades me from delving deeper, hence I don't really know what the place is about.

Pretty big deal.

Not as big a deal as Twitter or Facebook, but large enough to make waves when it wants to, and large enough for people like Barack Obama to do AMAs there.

ktchong · July 13, 2015

Wambulance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca1_o7b7qcY

Edited July 13, 2015 by ktchong

Bartimaeus · July 13, 2015

Out of curiosity, is Reddit a big deal? Serious question, I never go there purposely and whenever I happen by it the formatting of the front page dissuades me from delving deeper, hence I don't really know what the place is about.

Depends on what you mean by "big deal". Lots of things are big deals...doesn't necessarily mean they're worth bothering with, though.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Bartimaeus

BruceVC · July 13, 2015

Wambulance:

Interesting so it appears that Reddit is another forum where in some places sexism and misogyny is rife

Glad I don't frequent it...I like the way she described the sexist element on Reddit ..." basement, underground cesspool " :lol:

But she raises another good point, no point trying to moderate or force changes on Reddit....rather keep them contained there and ensure contagion doesn't occur on other forums

Fighter · July 13, 2015

"weren't going to like her anyway because she's an Asian woman" -- does anyone really sincerely believes this childish bs?

PK htiw klaw eriF · July 13, 2015

"weren't going to like her anyway because she's an Asian woman" -- does anyone really sincerely believes this childish bs?

Yes, delusional people exist.

BruceVC · July 13, 2015

"weren't going to like her anyway because she's an Asian woman" -- does anyone really sincerely believes this childish bs?

Yes I do, absolutely. There is no doubt in my mind that there will be elements on Reddit that will resent the fact there is an Asian women in charge or trying to change things

Yes there are sexists and misogynists on Reddit, of course this doesn't apply to most of you guys. But it would be silly to suggest that view doesn't exist on Reddit

Amentep · July 13, 2015

Wait, Ms. Lacy claims when talking about the negative side of the internet (right before the cesspool comment) that Gawker media attacks women, but isn't Gawker media behind Kotaku who are one of the "Social Justice" websites that think the presentation of women in games is bad?

Is this weird to anyone else, or am I misunderstanding?

Gfted1 · July 13, 2015

....rather keep them contained there and ensure contagion doesn't occur on other forums

Aye. That's exactly what we do here with the romance threads.

ktchong · July 13, 2015

BruceVC · July 13, 2015

Wait, Ms. Lacy claims when talking about the negative side of the internet (right before the cesspool comment) that Gawker media attacks women, but isn't Gawker media behind Kotaku who are one of the "Social Justice" websites that think the presentation of women in games is bad?

Is this weird to anyone else, or am I misunderstanding?

No that's a good point...she must have misspoke?

....rather keep them contained there and ensure contagion doesn't occur on other forums

Aye. That's exactly what we do here with the romance threads.

Yeah but it makes sense..its not like you guys are being unreasonable

You can't have every discussion being impacted by Romance debates. Even BSN has rules about this

#RedditRevolt

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