Stupid faction choice in Defiance Bay!

[TrashMan]

I hate it. Because I'm stuck. I thought the patch might fix this, but nooooo.

 

I have good reputation with everyone.

Ally with Dommenel (tricked their goons in Dryford village, let that dealer get killed) and Dozens (did get that armor back and accepted to fetch some weapons)

With Crucible Knights I have a Hero reputation (did the quest with making those golem-things, and halped the guard in Heritige Hill and 1-2 minor things)

 

I want ot ally myself with the Crucible Knight, but I got no option to talk to with their leader.

 

I mena...really. Why the hell does a fetch quest signify my alliance? It does not.

Can I get out of this?

I cna't stand the Domenels and I don't want to ally with the Dozens either.

 

If the only solution is to start a new game, I might as well just uninstall the game while cursing like a drunk sailor!

[MasterPrudent]

Have you tried the option to get an invite through Lady Webb?

[TrashMan]

Not yet.

I want to join the knights.

 

Who wrote this? Seriously?

 

Why does no one ASK me if I want to join?

But noooo.. it's "hey, I got a simple fetch quest for you. You accept? Great, you are now a member of our group and the guys that love you now hate your guts despite you doing nothing but helping them."

[ManifestedISO]

Your cake, you can't have it, and eat it, too. 

[Luckmann]

Have you tried not posting spoilers in the non-spoiler forum?

 

 

That being said, while I think it'd be a bit overboard to have these very clear, artificial nonsense-lines between "member" and "not-member" highlighted by a binary dialogue choice, I do share some of the frustration. I've personally helped the Doemenels a bit, but it was all "in good faith". Yes, my character is Aggressive and don't oppose underhanded tactics, or even cruelty when warranted, but he's also rather benevolent and rather brutally honest; I've helped the Doemenels in good faith.

 

Yes, out of character, I realize that they're basically a crime syndicate, but nothing I know for sure in the game have actually cemented that at all. I helped them in Ondra's Gift because the Vailian Trading Company set me up to haul illegal goods. I then helped them in Dyrford Village because hey, Medreth recognized me as someone that knows the Doemenels and Nyfre straight-out refused to tell me what it was all about, so hey, she got a rapier through her eye-socket.

 

Pretty reasonable actions to me and my character, I think, but suddenly I'm some hardened thug in a crime syndicate? Eh.

 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Luckmann

[czinczar]

I read a dev said it's a known bug and will be fixed in patch 1.04, I have the same problem, if you accept 2nd dozen quest the knights dont want u, there are also workarounds that ppl have found (modifying the file containing the dialogue, but i am just going to wait for patch.

[sparklecat]

Doesn't everyone straight out say when you ask about their second quest that if you do it the other two factions won't be very fond of you?  It was pretty clearly conveyed as an exclusive choice for the Knights, at least.

[PBJam]

maybe this should be in the spoilers forum though

[TrashMan]

Doesn't everyone straight out say when you ask about their second quest that if you do it the other two factions won't be very fond of you?  It was pretty clearly conveyed as an exclusive choice for the Knights, at least.

 

They pretty much said "the cruicible Knights won't like it". That's it.

So no, it's NOT clear. Not in the least.

 

Why am I, a neutral mercenray, suiddenly personana non-grata? Why the hell id it an insourmantable obstacle, when I have a excellent relations with the Knights?

 

A fetch/exploration job is treated as a decelaration of utter loyalty. How can one expect loyalty out of me when I was never invited to be part of the group to bein with?

there never was a "Do you want to join us?" with the knights.

And the Dozen seem like a loose group. They organize contracts and expeditions, so how is "Hey, do you need a extra hand on one of the expeditions?" the same as "I'm loyal to you and only to you!"

[Crucis]

 

Doesn't everyone straight out say when you ask about their second quest that if you do it the other two factions won't be very fond of you?  It was pretty clearly conveyed as an exclusive choice for the Knights, at least.

 

They pretty much said "the cruicible Knights won't like it". That's it.

So no, it's NOT clear. Not in the least.

 

Why am I, a neutral mercenray, suiddenly personana non-grata? Why the hell id it an insourmantable obstacle, when I have a excellent relations with the Knights?

 

A fetch/exploration job is treated as a decelaration of utter loyalty. How can one expect loyalty out of me when I was never invited to be part of the group to bein with?

there never was a "Do you want to join us?" with the knights.

And the Dozen seem like a loose group. They organize contracts and expeditions, so how is "Hey, do you need a extra hand on one of the expeditions?" the same as "I'm loyal to you and only to you!"

 

 

 

Trashman, without getting into the details of the dialog trees, I can agree that it seems like the 3 factions are much too black/white about whose side your on.  The way you describe it, it's getting rather close to saying that if you do any work for the "other" factions, the faction you'd prefer to align with will reject you.  There doesn't seem to be any room to be neutral here and do some work with all three, at least for a while.  Oh, I can see how once you do fully align yourself with one faction that the other two would probably then reject you.  But it seems to me that UNTIL you've taken that final step, if your reputation with the other factions is still respectable, they shouldn't turn their backs on you.

 

 

Of course, I suppose that from a real life perspective, some "good" group might say that if you're doing work for a crime family, then they want nothing to do with you.  And vice-versa.  (Not sure how to look at the Dozen, because I don't know much about them beyond them being some sort of umbrella group for adventurers.)

 

OTOH, from a game play perspective, it would seem like trying to let the player string the 3 factions along as far as possible (as long as their reps with each group were good enough) could possibly be good for game play. 

 

[sparklecat]

 

Doesn't everyone straight out say when you ask about their second quest that if you do it the other two factions won't be very fond of you?  It was pretty clearly conveyed as an exclusive choice for the Knights, at least.

 

They pretty much said "the cruicible Knights won't like it". That's it.

So no, it's NOT clear. Not in the least.

 

Why am I, a neutral mercenray, suiddenly personana non-grata? Why the hell id it an insourmantable obstacle, when I have a excellent relations with the Knights?

 

A fetch/exploration job is treated as a decelaration of utter loyalty. How can one expect loyalty out of me when I was never invited to be part of the group to bein with?

there never was a "Do you want to join us?" with the knights.

And the Dozen seem like a loose group. They organize contracts and expeditions, so how is "Hey, do you need a extra hand on one of the expeditions?" the same as "I'm loyal to you and only to you!"

 

Okay, so maybe dialogue needs to at least be edited to say something like "if you do this, the Knights/Doemenels won't be willing to work with you anymore?"

 

I do not much like either that all it takes is accepting the quest to be locked in; sometimes people change their minds based on what they encounter in games!  I locked myself into going with the Knights by accepting their quest because neither revolutionary types nor criminals felt acceptable for my lawful character, but after more experiences with animancy and the harm it could cause I found myself thinking that really, she'd go return the research to the Knights, tell them to find someone else, and jump ship to the Dozens.  But alas, it was not allowed.

[rheingold]

It's actually pretty clear... Anything else would be overkill. You are warned, what else can you say.

[TrashMan]

It makes little sense and the warning is barely there.

 

I played RPG's since the early MUD's, so no, I wasn't skipping on reading.

I SHOULD be able to join the knights, since I did nothing aginst them.

Heck, I didn't even do the job, nor did I promise any sort of loyalty to the dozens.

 

And how would the knights magically know anyway? LOGICALLY, it makes no sense. I made no direct move against them, it's ntohing taht cannot be cleared.

Regardless, it seems poorly implemented/written.

 

And this makes me raging mad.

Friggin ruined my playtrough...

Hope the patch fixes this. Otherwise PoE will get aquineted with my recycle bin. I don't have neither the time or will for many playtroughs.

[Rosbjerg]

I thought it was perfectly clear - I refused the quest from the crucible knight because he downright said - this'll make you unpopular with the 2 other factions.. The dozen said the same when I took their quest.

 

 

You even kill their patrol...

 

 

 

In political reality (which this somewhat tries to represent) if you clearly allign yourself with one group (which you did), who are opposed to others, then it's hardly a wonder that the other groups can't be seen with you.. It would hurt their own political agenda.

 

I'm seriously not getting the outrage here.

[Varana]

 

The point is: I didn't kill their patrol.

The only thing I did in that quest was killing a group of DOZENS.

 

I get it that the Knights refuse to cooperate after a certain point in that quest. But earlier? Even if I had no intention whatsoever to actually complete (or even do anything!) in that quest?

Edited April 7, 2015 by Varana

[Rumpelstilskin]

If anything, having a hero of one faction defect to another undermines the former much more than if it were a neutral person.

During the weapons quest I was hoping I'd be able to give them to the knights instead, at one point or another, but that didn't happen (not spoiler-tagged, since even if technically it is a spoiler, it's one that people should know about instead of finding it for themselves).

 

I guess the fact the you kill a patrol might be a deal-breaker for the knights, but it's never mentioned explicitly (it's not even clear if they know about it). And in any case, it should have been done in a systemic way so that killing a member drops you rep a lot, and factions refuse to deal with you only based on their own negative rep. Again, giving the weapons to the patrol should have been possible, but it might have been that they were indeed particularly trigger-happy and unreasonable.

 

 

[Matuse]

They pretty much said "the cruicible Knights won't like it". That's it.

So no, it's NOT clear. Not in the least.

 

No, that's not what he pretty much said. He pretty much said both factions won't like it, and

oh by the way, please go get us some weapons so we can kill off the other factions.

 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Matuse

[Rumpelstilskin]

 

They pretty much said "the cruicible Knights won't like it". That's it.

So no, it's NOT clear. Not in the least.

 

No, that's not what he pretty much said. He pretty much said both factions won't like it, and

oh by the way, please go get us some weapons so we can kill off the other factions.

 

 

 

Speaking of which, there is an option to lie to the Dozen about how the weapons work, which suggests that they won't use them. Surely, I should be able to tell the knights about that.

 

[DeathQuaker]

I thought it was perfectly clear - I refused the quest from the crucible knight because he downright said - this'll make you unpopular with the 2 other factions.. The dozen said the same when I took their quest.

 

FWIW: when I read "this will make you unpopular," the only "clear" assumption I could make, not having been spoiled, was that you will lose reputation with the other factions. "Lose reputation" does not lead logically to "you are declaring irrevocable loyalty to one side and declaring the others effective enemies now and forever" -- especially since the game allows you to have good rep with many of the factions at once. I wasn't aware till this thread (this is what I get for reading spoilers) that you would necessarily have to rely on one faction or another to advance in the game--the presence of factions in a game don't always indicate absolute sides you have to take, just potential enemies, allies, or in between. I've been playing through with a "well, I'll take the consequences of my decisions as they come" attitude so the revelation that I've apparently "sided" with the Dozens for doing a couple fetch quests for them (even though in other quests I've also killed them or worked against them) isn't rage inducing, though I get why the OP's annoyed. I think at least part of the issue is these quest do not feel like world-shattering decision making quests, but rather come off as simple fetch quest jobs you can be doing solely for the monetary gain of it without caring about the organizations' ethics or goals.

 

Looks like there is supposed to be another way around though, and hopefully all the OP will do is have to wait for the next patch---or accept that he can't quite do what he wants in this playthrough and see things through--who knows, it might still get interesting!--and then try what he wanted in a new playthrough later.

 

Perhaps they should consider how reputation plays in with "siding" with different faction, or not, and making that clearer. I actually got the conversation with the Crucible Knights where Clyver says, "Well, I can't ask you for your help, you're too friendly with the Dozens," but I assumed that WAS due to the fact I had a positive reputation with the Dozens, not because I had accepted--but not yet completed--a certain quest (because how would he know that I had?).

 

On the smaller matter of "but you kill a patrol" -- IIRC you are attacked by them without provocation, so you can defend your actions later--and I believe your reputation does not suffer. There are other places where you are attacked by Dozens or Doemenel likewise and it doesn't necessarily hurt your rep. Maybe it should? IDK, but defending yourself from an attack you didn't incite isn't a declaration of war against a whole side.

Edited April 7, 2015 by DeathQuaker

[Araxiel]

Can i do the quests for all sides that lets me purchase stuff from related merchants then stick to one side?

[pi2repsion]

Can i do the quests for all sides that lets me purchase stuff from related merchants then stick to one side?

Yes.

 

 

Still, judging by this thread CRPGs need stickers saying "Warning: This is a game of incomplete information. Your actions can have unforeseen consequences, and sometimes they are not what you want."

[Koth]

 

Can i do the quests for all sides that lets me purchase stuff from related merchants then stick to one side?

Yes.

 

 

Still, judging by this thread CRPGs need stickers saying "Warning: This is a game of incomplete information. Your actions can have unforeseen consequences, and sometimes they are not what you want."

 

So Just to be clear. I too have done all the quests up to unlocking the respective merchants but not yet committed to a faction... do I need to buy all the stuff I want prior to committing to a faction... or once committed, do I lose access to the merchants not aligned to my committed faction. Reason I'm asking as I don't yet have the funds I need to buy all the stuff I want from the other factions yet, so I've been holding off committing to a faction until I can afford all the gear I want.

[sparklecat]

You can still enter the other groups' areas and buy from them after committing to another faction by accepting a quest, though if they wind up hating you in the course of the quest, I'm willing to wager that may not last.

[nornaidel]

I agree that this needs to be changed. At first I thought the Dozens were just some adventuring company, and I figured I could help them out and get some money while at it. I finished the first quest, then accepted the second quest, but after learning more about the Dozen's changed my mind and figured I rather liked the Crucible Knights more. But no. Just because I had accepted -- not completed, nor even attempted -- a job for the Dozens, Clyver somehow magically knew about it and wouldn't work with me.

 

I didn't even get the option to say "screw the Dozens, I'll cancel my job with them as I'd rather work with you".

 

As it is designed now, it seems too easy to accidentally get irrevocably aligned with a group you don't care for that much.

[Mirandel]

 

Doesn't everyone straight out say when you ask about their second quest that if you do it the other two factions won't be very fond of you?  It was pretty clearly conveyed as an exclusive choice for the Knights, at least.

 

They pretty much said "the cruicible Knights won't like it". That's it.

So no, it's NOT clear. Not in the least.

 

Why am I, a neutral mercenray, suiddenly personana non-grata? Why the hell id it an insourmantable obstacle, when I have a excellent relations with the Knights?

 

A fetch/exploration job is treated as a decelaration of utter loyalty. How can one expect loyalty out of me when I was never invited to be part of the group to bein with?

there never was a "Do you want to join us?" with the knights.

And the Dozen seem like a loose group. They organize contracts and expeditions, so how is "Hey, do you need a extra hand on one of the expeditions?" the same as "I'm loyal to you and only to you!"

 

 

To be fair - you are exact;y as you said, a GOOD NEUTRAL mercenary to them. Someone they can trust (if payment is good, they understand that part about you) with something simple, yet not devoted to their course to the degree to have nothing with other factions. I think it's very PR.