Twitter outrage over the "[spoiler]" quest

[Prime-Mover]

Can someone update me on this: did someone find one tweet from some random person which was critical of some element of POE, which people are up in arms about? Or am I missing something? Is there some great political movement to change this part of the story?

[sparklecat]

 Is there some great political movement to change this part of the story?

No.

[ChipMHazard]

Can someone update me on this: did someone find one tweet from some random person which was critical of some element of POE, which people are up in arms about? Or am I missing something? Is there some great political movement to change this part of the story?

 

There might not be anything to worry about at this point. 

[Ekaros]

I don't think removing this hurts the Obsidian any further. As they have show it's the group of people they like the most. As such anything offensive to them should be removed. After all it's them who buy the games.

 

I think there is lot of further things that could be removed from the game to make it more suitable for them. Great marketing it will be!

[sparklecat]

There never was anything to worry about; Obsidian were never going to change the actual content of the game, even if all of Twitter rose up as one and cried out for horrible, horrible censorship.

[valmont]

 

 

actually it's about ethics in games journalism *farts*

 

"Actually this forum section is about Pillars of Eternity." 

 

it was a joke since the image in the op is fake as **** and this is just some gamergate ****er trying to latch onto another game for attention, just like the sjws they oh so hate

 

good grief the irony is burning like the sun with this stuff

 

 

that joke hasn't been funny since day one though. 

[EagleScout]

Does anyone have a link to the origanal tweet or an archive.  I like to see more than a screenshot before I get to angry about stuff like this.

[valmont]

Can someone update me on this: did someone find one tweet from some random person which was critical of some element of POE, which people are up in arms about? Or am I missing something? Is there some great political movement to change this part of the story?

 

It's really weird. The games community is kind of sensitive and fractured at the moment, so everything gets completely blown out of proportion. 

[Cpmartins]

There is a massive difference between the offensive trans limerick and this issue. In fact they are 2 separate issues. Obsidan were right to correct the limerick which clearly was offensive.

Luckman not sure what you have against Sawyer, but it's becoming really tiring. Every post has an anti Sawyer tirade in it?

Yes, "correcting" the game because someone finds the content "offensive" was the right thing to do.

[Ekaros]

There never was anything to worry about; Obsidian were never going to change the actual content of the game, even if all of Twitter rose up as one and cried out for horrible, horrible censorship.

 

You never know. If some of the big names get in, they probably will after all media is what they listen to.

[dorkboy]

This thread has been closed how many times now?

[BlackAdder]

@Longknife Sorry, but I won't get drawn into a discussion which involves me critiquing Sarkeesian. The reason is that I do not want to be associated in any shape or form with the group of people who does that. There's nothing GG loves more than infighting among their opposition.

 

Which is a shame because I believe there would be an intelligent conversation to be had there. I'm just not going to do it until when somebody saying "feminism" will no longer cause an instant twitterstorm.

 

So... "I'm not going to comment on demonstratively proven lies and intentional misinterpretations because I'm on her side."

Well, that's a reasonable stance if I even saw one. How progressive of you!

[Prime-Mover]

 

 Is there some great political movement to change this part of the story?

No.

 

Huh, so a lot of people in this thread/forum were just looking for an excuse to get their outrage on, and pounced on the chance? 

 

Huh, so why has this thread not been locked yet?

[Moirnelithe]

I think I've had enough popcorn after yesterdays drama threads    *goes back to playing PoE*

[sparklecat]

 

 

 Is there some great political movement to change this part of the story?

No.

 

Huh, so a lot of people in this thread/forum were just looking for an excuse to get their outrage on, and pounced on the chance? 

 

Huh, so why has this thread not been locked yet?

 

Yep!

 

Because Obsidian allows people to air their opinions on their forums, even if those opinions are really... wrong and uninformed.

[Creslin321]

 

I asked in the previous thread but it got locked and I never got an answer.

 

What is the "progressive" crowd's endgame? I am genuinely curious as I don't think I've ever seen a coherent answer to this question.

 

I've seen half answers ranging from everyone has to be represented in every single game (this seems highly unrealistic to me), to every game has to be accessible to every player no game can be too difficult or too complex.

 

I honestly mean no trolling with this question.

 

I wrote a reply but the thread got locked before I had time to post it. Fortunately I saved it:

 

Those are pretty good questions actually. 

 

I'm not all that interested in endgames. I see culture as more of a process and find it more interesting and productive to identify things wrong with it and then attempt to change them, and also make constant course corrections in case of unintended consequences or more pressing concerns coming up. I would like to live in a kinder world: one where it matters less where you were born and who your parents were, which provides more second chances when you screw up, and where generosity and cooperation are valued more than possession and competition.

 

I don't think games "need" to represent anyone in particular at all. However: I observe that in actual point of fact, until very recently games have overwhelmingly represented and catered to a pretty small and IMO not all that interesting subset of the population. If the protagonist isn't a macho square-jawed space marine type, she's a big-boobed scantily-clad package of fapping material, the occasional exception or half-accidental Fem-Shep aside. Men by and large are presented as characters you want to be, women as objects you want to possess. It's formulaic, tired, and clichéd, and it's unappealing to a very large number of people. 

 

I would like to see that change. Not that there won't be any games with white straight male lantern-jawed space-marine type protagonists, but that that will no longer be the default expectation for the protagonist. So yeah, if a new game is being made, I count it as a point in its favor if it features an Inuit mother-of-five and a Polynesian scholar as companions, and if the dominant technological and cultural power happens to consist of people with dark skin.  

 

I also feel very strongly that games should not shy away from difficult themes and materials. I don't, generally speaking, like "safe" or bowdlerized stuff. Again, P:E does this rather well. It references rape, child murder, genocide, and all kinds of heavy stuff, but does it intelligently and coherently.

 

I don't want every game to be suitable for everybody. However, I would like to see more games suitable for and representing more people. Partly it's for altruistic reasons -- I think it'd be cool if we saw more non-white non-males here -- and partly because I myself find it interesting to vicariously see the world through other eyes. 

 

In summary: I observe a problem, namely that gaming culture in general and places like this forum in particular are not comfortable places to be if you're not white, straight, male, and argumentative, and I would like that to change. 

 

Finally, I don't think there is a "formula" for this. It's all about intent and self-understanding. I detest transparent attempts at being "politically correct." DA:I for example. It's ghastly. Randomizing everybody's race and making half the characters gay without any examination of what that would mean, while leaving in things like the transparent and hideously racist "Qunari = Arabs" is worse than naively oblivious racism and sexism. It's not about what's in the game; it's about approaching it thoughtfully and intelligently.

 

And finally finally, I do agree that a bunch of people on the "social justice" side of the fence go to ridiculous extremes with this. I do not want trigger warnings on everything, jazz hands instead of applause, or the removal of spiders. Nor am I in favor of censorship -- i.e., an outside authority determining what should or shouldn't be in a game. I am, however, strongly in favor of critique and criticism, and I'm thrilled if the critique and criticism changes things for the better, as the backlash to GG has by and large done, DA:I idiocy notwithstanding.

 

Did this help at all?

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this, it helps to explain where you are coming from.

 

One thing I would like to say though is that in my gaming experience (starting with Commodore 64), I have not noticed the same "domination" of white, male, macho characters, and sexpot female characters as you have.  I'm not saying they aren't there, they certainly are, but at least to me, they seem to be only prevalent in certain genres.  Those genres mainly being FPS, fighting games, and action adventure.

 

I don't really notice genres like RPG, strategy, 4X, Adventure, Simulation, etc. really having any great bias towards these stereotypes.  I mean, even RPGs in the 90's were very diverse.  Just look at the old IE games or the classic SNES RPGs.  And even a game like Starcraft, which literally has lantern jawed space marines, has a pretty diverse set of characters (if you want to argue that an insect queen is a sexpot...okay then lol ).

 

So I kind of take issue with the argument that "gaming" has some kind of problem with representing different types of characters when that problem is really isolated only to specific genres.  If you want to argue that you want more diverse characters in action games and FPS games, sure go for it.  But honestly, I think most of those games are supposed to be marketed towards young men anyway, so the the developers are likely just trying to appeal to their target demo. 

 

Anyway, I honestly agree with you that Gears of War style machismo characters are boring...and this is part of why I don't play those kinds of games.  I just don't see it as some kind of systemic issue in gaming because there are plenty, plenty of games that have always featured diverse characters.

 

Do you see it differently?

[Kimuji]

And now every single idiot will examine the game in every detail in order to find a reason to either call Obsidian "progressive sellouts", "disgusting reactionaries", "children killers" etc...

 

I'm really enjoying the game and I did not find any kind of propaganda in its content. They did not use it to force their ideas on anyone so I don't care what are Obsidian devs political views. I don't care if they are feminists, masculinists, communists, capitalists, I did not find any form of extremist ideology endorsment in Pillars of Eternity so I don't see why I should start digging for imaginary hidden corpses.

[Kimuji]

 

 

actually it's about ethics in games journalism *farts*

 

"Actually this forum section is about Pillars of Eternity." 

 

it was a joke since the image in the op is fake as **** and this is just some gamergate ****er trying to latch onto another game for attention, just like the sjws they oh so hate

 

good grief the irony is burning like the sun with this stuff

 

Don't worry I got the joke, my post was one too.

[deuxhero]

All you had to do was ignore the damn Nazi Obisidan!

[Xatulu]

Close the thread already, the screenshot is faked, none of those tweets exist.

[Jasta11]

It's funny that anti-SJWs (or whatever label one wants to use) complain about their hated foes overreacting to everything. 

 

Then, there is one tweet (that is potentially fake) denouncing violence made to children in the game (whose point I vehemently disagree with, the quest definitely has its place in a 18+ game), and those same anti-SJWs light up the forums like a christmas tree in their sheer outrage. But sure, they are so much more level-headed and wise in the ways of the world than their counterparts, and are not just as guilty of looking for an excuse to be outraged. Honest.

 

The whole thing is completely absurd. I'm so glad I never took a side in this worthless debate.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Jasta11

[KingNee]

It's funny that anti-SJWs (or whatever label one wants to use) complain about their hated foes overreacting to everything. 

 

Then, there is one tweet (that is potentially fake) denouncing violence made to children in the game (whose point I vehemently disagree with, the quest definitely has its place in a 18+ game), and those same anti-SJWs light up the forums like a christmas tree in their sheer outrage. But sure, they are so much more level-headed and wise in the ways of the world than their counterparts, and are not just as guilty of looking for an excuse to be outraged. Honest.

 

The whole thing is completely absurd. I'm so glad I never took a side in this worthless debate.

 

Why would people start by assuming that it was fake? Was the bull**** anti-tombstone movement fake?

[mrmonocle]

Ahaha, USA so free a country. Why r ppl so stupid? Why can't they see that the game doesn't ask you to kill a child, but rather presents you with a problem that *you* solve as a player and as a person.

Edited April 4, 2015 by mrmonocle

[Creslin321]

And now every single idiot will examine the game in every detail in order to find a reason to either call Obsidian "progressive sellouts", "disgusting reactionaries", "children killers" etc...

 

I'm really enjoying the game and I did not find any kind of propaganda in its content. They did not use it to force their ideas on anyone so I don't care what are Obsidian devs political views. I don't care if they are feminists, masculinists, communists, capitalists, I did not find any form of extremist ideology endorsment in Pillars of Eternity so I don't see why I should start digging for imaginary hidden corpses.

 

My view is this...

 

I think that Obsidian, being the developers of PoE have every right to do whatever they want to it.  If Josh Sawyer is politically progressive, and he doesn't want a joke that can be construed as transphobic in his game, then more power to him, he is the project lead after all.  So if someone on Twitter just told Sawyer about the joke and he removed it because he thinks it's wrong, then that's fine.

 

That said, I don't really like it when people try to bully or shame a developer into removing some kind of content.  So I can't really get behind the Twitter outrage brigade shaming Obsidian for daring to include this joke.  That's kind of ridiculous.  If you are upset with something, just let the developer know, if they change it, they change it, if not, oh well.  Don't go on a tirade about how they are so horrible for daring to include a (IMO rather mild) joke.

 

Now as for this specific instance?  Given the Josh Sawyer supports FemFreq, I'm inclined to believe that he probably wouldn't want this joke in his game.  So I don't think he was "bullied" into removing it, it just seems like something he would have done anyway.  And that's perfectly fine.

[Sadrithos]

So this wasnt true? Ran into link to this on steam, glad we arent having round two of this...yet atleast, people seem easily pissed off these days, probably just a matter of time.