Limerick edit thread 2

[Mansen]

So all we need is for someone to actually prove that Obsidian caved and made a decision against its will, with some kind of actual evidence, and we can all go home.

 

Not an awful lot of need for that - They've either caved to minority response or shown that they care more about said minority's complaints than keeping harmless backer content that fits the universe and theme.

[Kveldulf]

A few more thoughts to consider for Obsidian and the community:

 

What Obsidian invariably did by correcting it, also puts out the strong impression that Obsidian particularly supports LGBT, and that causes things to be even more polarized. It really would have been better if they just left it alone, now they may face an even bigger blow-back from other political spectrums.

 

Another thing, It's very hypocritical to censor one type of joke over other ones in the game. Is it wrong to even have a transphobic character/thing in a story? It's bloddy fiction. Heck, those old IE games were rife with political incorrect things.... look at Arcanum.... at the very beggining of character creation gender gave you different bonuses, hark! But you know, details like that actually helped with immersion.

 

I wouldn't even say the joke is transphobic.... I can relate to Firedorns sentiments - if I slept with a tran on accident....  Heck, I reckon 'most' heterosexuals would feel horrified too, lol. I guess our 'niche' sense of reality/humor gets the shovel though right? Well..... that's even more confidence lost in obsidians decision makers.

 

I would rather a game depict real human tendencies than it being super imposed with political feel goodness.

 

 

 

 

 

[k1rage]

 

Obsidian is one of the few companies left still willing to make old school RPGs, both 'SJW' and anti-SJW sides are now detracting from this goal. I hope you all realize what you're doing. EA is probably laughing their asses off. Good job.

No. This would be a complete non-issue if the bigots hadn't thrown a fit.

Go read the replies to the other thread. Someone actually vowed to undermine everything Obsidian ever does. The reaction is completely, hilariously, out of proportion.

 

Some bigots may have replied yes but what about those of us who just hate the growing censorship we are seeing in our society?

[Droethan]

 

 

I think you should look up the definition of censorship. 

 

You're either dishonest or ignorant.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censorship

 

a :  the institution, system, or practice of censoring ...

 

: a person who examines books, movies, letters, etc., and removes things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc.

 

A person.  Not a government, not a law, a PERSON.

 

Did a person examine this game?  Yes.

Did they apply pressure, directly, to the developer of said game to remove something they felt was offensive, immoral, or harmful to society?  Yes.

 

This person is a censor.

They performed censorship by pressuring the developer to remove it.

 

About to go offensive (trigger warning); if I "pressure" someone into having sex, I'm not a rapist or immoral, right?  After all, they could have said no, they could have resisted, so it's alright, right?

[Ekaros]

 

Obsidian is one of the few companies left still willing to make old school RPGs, both 'SJW' and anti-SJW sides are now detracting from this goal. I hope you all realize what you're doing. EA is probably laughing their asses off. Good job.

No. This would be a complete non-issue if the bigots hadn't thrown a fit.

Go read the replies to the other thread. Someone actually vowed to undermine everything Obsidian ever does. The reaction is completely, hilariously, out of proportion.

 

 

Money, marketing and PR is only thing they understand. Boycott and speech is only tools consumer has, as such advocacy is best thing a consumer can do when they come across immoral practises. Recent months have show just how deep problems the industry has, something must be done for better tomorrow. And few bad apples dying of is small price to pay.

[Maviarab]

Like anyone with half a brain actually thinks Metacritic is worth visiting.

[Nosey and Opinionated]

 

So all we need is for someone to actually prove that Obsidian caved and made a decision against its will, with some kind of actual evidence, and we can all go home.

 

Not an awful lot of need for that - They've either caved to minority response or shown that they care more about said minority's complaints than keeping harmless backer content that fits the universe and theme.

 

 

Or they didn't care for the joke and arrived at that decision on their own. 

[Namutree]

"The backers content was changed with the backer's consent after all."

 

No. He had no choice. What do you think Obsidian does if he tells them no? Come on, tell me.

According to Badler he was involved in the process so it's safe to assume they asked him to change it and he agreed. If he said no, they likely wouldn't have changed it. If he had no say on this it then Obsidian wouldn't have let him rewrite a new version where he makes a joke at the expense of the SJW.

 

EDIT: I suppose it's possible he had no choice, but that seems really far fetched.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Namutree

[Moirnelithe]

 

Obsidian is one of the few companies left still willing to make old school RPGs, both 'SJW' and anti-SJW sides are now detracting from this goal. I hope you all realize what you're doing. EA is probably laughing their asses off. Good job.

No. This would be a complete non-issue if the bigots hadn't thrown a fit.

Go read the replies to the other thread. Someone actually vowed to undermine everything Obsidian ever does. The reaction is completely, hilariously, out of proportion.

 

I have read them.

[Kimuji]

 

Am I really the only one here who got the meaning of the new poem? People should have a second look at it:

 

 

It clearly states that the original poem was just a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously, and "They asked for blood" is refering to those who asked for its removal and it can't be taken as compliment (if I were "they" I wouldn't take it as one anyway).

 

So all in all it seems rather obvious to me that the new poem means: "your failure to understand an inconsequential joke resulted in stupid censorship, well done you hysterical crowd".

 

It is a good testament to the sillyness and apparently they [Those that complained] are now rather upset about the rewritten joke. Have to wait and see if they try to have it removed as well. 

 

 

The thought they had won, the joke is on them now. I don't think Obsidian will remove the new poem.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Obsidian is one of the few companies left still willing to make old school RPGs, both 'SJW' and anti-SJW sides are now detracting from this goal. I hope you all realize what you're doing. EA is probably laughing their asses off. Good job.

 

No. This would be a complete non-issue if the bigots hadn't thrown a fit.

Go read the replies to the other thread. Someone actually vowed to undermine everything Obsidian ever does. The reaction is completely, hilariously, out of proportion.

Some bigots may have replied yes but what about those of us who just hate the growing censorship we are seeing in our society?

You're a bigot too. Anyone who disagrees is a bigot and probably a communist MRA as well.

[Longknife]

So all we need is for someone to actually prove that Obsidian caved and made a decision against its will, with some kind of actual evidence, and we can all go home.

 

 

On the other hand, it's also a matter of good luck disproving suspicions at this point.

 

The complaint was filtered directly through Katherine Cross and Ian Miles Cheong before it reached Sawyer, who responded to Cheong within a day. Both Cross and Cheong oppose Gamergate and are a part of the group GamerGate accuses of trying to dictate the narrative and censor games.

 

 

It's sort of like how do you expect to convince people it's truly their opinion when it went through those guys? Me personally it's like ok wtf Sawyer responded quickly like it wasn't a question for him so that can just as well mean he shares the sentiment, but yeah. Point is people are gonna be worked up.

[Volourn]

If you think for one second that if he had said no they would have kept it as is you are delusional. The decision was made once Sawyer piped up. The backer had ZERO say. They probably allowed him to do the new limerick so he wouldn't make a stink. I guarantee he had NO say in the matter. NONE.

[pstone]

Could someone explain (to a non-native speaker) why the original limerick was considered offensive? If i understood it correctly, not the transgender guy was killed, but the joke is actually on the idiot that couldn't deal with accidentially ****ing a guy and then he killed himself. So the joke isn't anti-transgender imo, more like anti-'straight guys with extremely insecure self-image'.

Edited April 4, 2015 by pstone

[YourVoiceisAmbrosia]

 

 

Censorship is not only forced by law. As I said you are pretty naive if you believe that is the case. 

 

I don't believe I ever claimed that to be the case - I am pointing out that being told by a loud minority to change something is NOT censorship. The choice is still in their own hands. Of course you can debate the legitimacy of the concept of self-censorship, which is pretty much the core of the drama as far as most people seem to be concerned.

 

If Obsidian caves this easily to a small group of loudmouthed people (who arguably haven't even played the game for the most part judging by twitter responses), what will be next on the "I am a minority and feel offended by ___"? And how will this sort of behaviour affect the universe, story and future content that is still on the drawing board.

 

I do not care what it does or not does. And even if it was just some small stone which it basically is.  It is the principle of someone being offended by something most people do not even agree and then it get changed.  IT is ridiculous how worse this **** has gotten thanks to twitter and co. No one ever should carve in to nutjobs and Yes Obsidian did exactly that and while I am no expressing my anger. I will also never by a Product of Obsidian since I am totally against censorship in any form. 

 

I live in Germany and I have to go against a ton of censorship regarding violence or nazi symbols in video games.  It is just disgusting to me. Especially when there even was a mod to remove this messages. There was no need at all to remove this but now Obsdian has done it and now they have  to live with the consequences. And how big they are will we see with their next game. Which I will certainly not buy. And many other people here seem to be the same. 

 

 

Okay, but you do realize that in having such an overblown reaction to this all you're doing is further validating these people and what they're saying, right? That they made some sort of grandiose victory in getting a backer poem in a memorial changed, even if it doesn't actually affect the game in any way. Let's say, hypothetically, that everyone suddenly stops supporting Obsidian, not because of the gameplay, not because of the design or the writing or the quality of the work, but simply because the backer poem was changed, with the backer's consent mind you. Let's assume, hypothetically, that Obsidian goes out of business and stops producing games. Who benefits in this regard? The very people you dislike, who want to see art removed.

 

I hope you see the irony in this

Edited April 4, 2015 by YourVoiceisAmbrosia

[Mansen]

Or they didn't care for the joke and arrived at that decision on their own. 

 

See the part about not knowing or caring about it until it was pointed out to them.

 

Someone had to proof-read the backer text - It isn't just machine text conversions.

 

@Darji: I don't see how a government mandated censorship system has anything to do with this? If a company wants to sell their games in Germany, they abide by their rules - That's the end of it.

 

Steam can't sell certain games in Germany because their age-restriction system isn't strict enough to abide by German rules. So they aren't allowed to sell the games.

 

Pretty simple and entirely based on laws - Not pressure.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Mansen

[Darji]

 

 

Obsidian is one of the few companies left still willing to make old school RPGs, both 'SJW' and anti-SJW sides are now detracting from this goal. I hope you all realize what you're doing. EA is probably laughing their asses off. Good job.

No. This would be a complete non-issue if the bigots hadn't thrown a fit.

Go read the replies to the other thread. Someone actually vowed to undermine everything Obsidian ever does. The reaction is completely, hilariously, out of proportion.

 

 

Money, marketing and PR is only thing they understand. Boycott and speech is only tools consumer has, as such advocacy is best thing a consumer can do when they come across immoral practises. Recent months have show just how deep problems the industry has, something must be done for better tomorrow. And few bad apples dying of is small price to pay.

 

Oh yeah or it backfires like it does right now in Indiana where a pizzeria got almost 1 million of funding.

 

Yeah and apples. People who are for free speech and artistic freedom are now the bad apples.  Wow you world views are so screwed..... I feel pity for you. 

 

Also better tomorrow huh? You know angered  the people who is buying a lot of ****. Many of the people who gave you a second chance just to place some crazy people. Lets see how this plays out with their next game.  

[deuxhero]

Reminder that this got priority over literally ever single bug that's still in the game.

[McMayhem]

There is no need to continue this "discussion" as there isn't a discussion being had. All that's left is people arguing in circles around each other. Nothing will get accomplished, no one will change their minds. 

 

In all honesty, I think the whole "hands off" approach from Obsidian as far as the forums are concerned is a very bad idea. It may seem nice, and freedom rules, etc, but in practice it just turns what should be a professional, helpful community portal into /r/obsidiansux. 

[deuxhero]

Could someone explain (to a non-native speaker) why the original limerick was considered offensive? If i understood it correctly, not the transgender guy was killed, but the joke is actually on the idiot that couldn't deal with accidentially ****ing a guy and then he killed himself. So the joke isn't anti-transgender imo, more like anti-'straight guys with extremely insecure self-image'.

 

People in English native land don't have hardships so they occupt themselves by making them up.

[RedSocialKnight]

I'm so angry!

 

So angry!

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaangry!

[k1rage]

 

 

 

Obsidian is one of the few companies left still willing to make old school RPGs, both 'SJW' and anti-SJW sides are now detracting from this goal. I hope you all realize what you're doing. EA is probably laughing their asses off. Good job.

No. This would be a complete non-issue if the bigots hadn't thrown a fit.

Go read the replies to the other thread. Someone actually vowed to undermine everything Obsidian ever does. The reaction is completely, hilariously, out of proportion.

Some bigots may have replied yes but what about those of us who just hate the growing censorship we are seeing in our society?

You're a bigot too. Anyone who disagrees is a bigot and probably a communist MRA as well.

 

wait how im I a bigot?, there is no need for personal attacks, Im merely for free speech for all. There are not too many things that bother me but censorship is one of them

 

thank you for your contribution, I respect your addition to the thread and your opinion and look forward to your future replies

[Nosey and Opinionated]

 

 

 

I think you should look up the definition of censorship. 

 

You're either dishonest or ignorant.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censorship

 

a :  the institution, system, or practice of censoring ...

 

: a person who examines books, movies, letters, etc., and removes things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc.

 

A person.  Not a government, not a law, a PERSON.

 

Did a person examine this game?  Yes.

Did they apply pressure, directly, to the developer of said game to remove something they felt was offensive, immoral, or harmful to society?  Yes.

 

This person is a censor.

They performed censorship by pressuring the developer to remove it.

 

About to go offensive (trigger warning); if I "pressure" someone into having sex, I'm not a rapist or immoral, right?  After all, they could have said no, they could have resisted, so it's alright, right?

 

 

No one is arguing that the offended person isn't a would-be censor. They wanted that joke censored.

 

What no one has proven is that Obsidian changed the content not because they wanted to change it but only because the censor made them. Which is a silly argument anyway. There are clearly butthurt people in droves on both sides of the debate. If you're going to get backlash from both sides, might as well do what you want to do.

[Wulfburk]

You all just need to grow the **** up.

 

 

I personally thought the joke before the edit in the patch was harmless and people getting offended were just some drama queens.

After the patch and the edit, i also feel its a freaking joke on how people are geting offended because Obisidan took it out. This is a freaking non issue and i cant stop laughing out loud at all the people giving the game 0 in metacritic just because of this non issue.

 

 

 

Basically, GROW THE HELL UP and .... really.... i suggest this to everyone getting their butt hurt over this issue..... STOP WATCHING THE KARDASHIANS, THIS ISNT A REALITY SHOW, THERE IS NO NEED TO TURN IT INTO A DRAMA

[Serdan]

 

 

I think you should look up the definition of censorship.

You're either dishonest or ignorant.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/censorship

 

cen·sor·ship

\ˈsen(t)-sər-ˌship\

noun

: the system or practice of censoring books, movies, letters, etc.

Full Definition

1 a :the institution, system, or practice of censoring

b :the actions or practices of censors; especially :censorial control exercised repressively

2 :the office, power, or term of a Roman censor

 

This move certainly can be regarded as censorship.

 

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/censorship

 

Feel free to contradict the ACLU, but I'm going to give a bit more credence than you.

 

There's a historical context that you are either ignoring or is ignorant of.

But it doesn't matter, because even *if* you think the word applies this sh!tstorm still has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.

There are a number of people who will cry bloody murder if anyone so much as considers doing anything for the sake of social justice.

It's completely ridiculous.