Limerick edit thread

[liniger4312]

Ive read a few of the memorials around 10 hours into the game.I'm around 60 hours in now and haven't even looked at another since then.If it turns out the Backer wanted it changed and went to Obsidian about it,what's the issue?

 

I'll try and say my take on it. Not native english speaking so bear with me if it gets a little unclear.

 

This isolated event in itself, is minor very minor. And I do believe people wouldn't give much than a raised eyebrow over how silly it is.

 

However this isn't an isolate case. There is a small and very quick to be offended crowd that has it in for computer games. The person who had an issue with the poem in here is a very vocal and proud "misandrist" (didn't really know what that meant until a few  days ago but apparently hating men).

In the past others have cried outrage and made changes in games like Dying Light (post release, had a female NPCs backstory removed because it offended them),. Divinity: Original Sin was also a target of outrage because the armor of the women was too revealing. They initially agreed to change it, but then decided they were going to make the game the way they wanted as it should be (the armor in game is the original armor), to name a couple of the top of my head.

 

So you see these are all small things in and of themselves, but when you add them all up and you see how they demand more and more from games in the future and devs starting to moderate the story/game they wish to make out of fear (I bet you anything the new Final Fantasy is going to get a lot of heat) - people are simply done with this outrage over nothing crowd.

This was another straw on the camels back, and it certainly doesn't help that the person now complaining is so full of hostility towards an entire gender.

 

Hope that shed some light on why I at least am very disappointed in this.

The new poem is great, and I love the dig it does to the people that got offended. But Obsidian is still caving to a crowd that shouldn't be encouraged to continue this nonsense.

[Arouet]

 

Would would really be amazing would be if all the armchair activists here could direct all of the "courage" they've displayed today to a real issue, like the **** that goes down routinely in Washington. The world would really be a better place if this fire showed up when it actually mattered.

That would be great if it wasn't a fallacy of relative privation.  How can we hope to stop the corruption in Washington if we can't even sort out videogames, hm?

 

You're right! Why did we try to oppose the bailouts by pressuring congress when we should have focused on VIDEOGAMES?

[Mashiki]

Yes, how dare the devs cave to the demands of their fans after committing to serve the interests of... their... fans...

 

Waitaminute...

 

At the end of the day, their job is to take backer/fan feedback and do what they think is best to make the best game they can. That's all they did here. I, for one, am glad they made the right decision, because making their backers/fans feel welcomed is important, and I'm sorry to all of you who disagree with it. But this? This isn't what censorship looks like, and calling it censorship is an insult to everyone who actually has to live with censorship.

I'll drop $20 that the people who whined and cried on twitter over it are not fans.  They don't own the game either, rather they live for the perpetual outrage cycle that they love so much.  They whine, cry, and get upset because it generates epeen points for themselves and their friends while giving them "warm fuzzies" because they think they're actually doing something to help the world.  Of course, they'd never get their hands dirty with something that's an actual issue.  It seems that going by the forums(including steam) the vast majority didn't want a change, though from what BAdler has said, the original is still in the game.

 

Removing something because others whine and complain over it, is a form of self-cenorship and falls under what's called chilling effects.

[distant_worlds]

So gay sex is something to kill yourself over?

 

 

That doesn't sound very good either, mate.

THAT WAS THE JOKE!

 

The point was to make fun of some idiot that was so uptight about gay sex that he offed himself!  The limerick was pointed at his foolishness, not the guy he slept with!  It's a cautionary tale!  The message being conveyed is "don't be this guy".

[Esser-Z]

The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

[R.Alexander]

Isn't it part of their artistic freedom to change it if they want. So, if Obsidian were to put it back in a later patch, does that mean they caved into public pressure and compromised their artistic freedom again? Or since it's what you wanted, then it's okay? What if they never wanted it there in the first place, and it just slipped by? If they had created the content, I am sure they would defend it and keep it there. I really don't think anyone part of the creative process read the backer tombstones, and once it was brought to their attention decided they didn't want it in there.

[deuxhero]

 

 

The thing a lot of you are missing is that it's a joke about a situation that often ends, not in suicide, but in a woman being murdered. And often times, at least in America, the killer getting away with it. There's serious bigotry involved with the situation, including the very idea that transwomen are men trying to trick you instead of, y'know, women.

 

Now, the backer probably didn't intend any of that. But that doesn't change the connotations of the joke. It added nothing to the game, makes light of deadly bigotry, and is insulting to a marginalized group. Why defend that?

 

Then start by being angry at Eric: the man who calls for all men, logically including those like him, to be murdered!

 

I have no idea who Eric is, but the woman who first brought up this whole thing has indeed joked with "Kill all men." Very clearly joked. Are you seriously using that as an attack? Because that's... pretty darn hilarious, actually.

 

It's like when I got called a eugenicist for doing a joke bit pretending to be an old-timey scientist. For someone so adamantly defending an offensive piece of humor, you really should pay more attention to what is and isn't serious!

 

Just a joke. And he only said it once

[Divinehammer]

The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

 

Make it better by destroying artistic integrity and freedom of expression?

[Vasid]

If you ask me anyone who found the in game joke "transphobic" was just bringing their own politics to the table.

 

That joke was about a man getting so drunk he slept with another man, not a transwoman.

 

If anything homosexuals should be crying foul, but I like to think that movement's skin is a bit thicker.

All this hubub was caused by one very confused young man endlessly fighting against himself and seeing shadows of enemies he creates everywhere.

It's both sad and a little funny.

 

 

And now instead of a joke not aimed at anyone in the game, there is a joke aimed directly at sensitive idiots who would take offense at everything.

 

It would be a win if it didn't call in to question Obsidian's respect of creativity and desire to share it uncensored.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Vasid

[aenemic]

How petty can you guys be? Obviously Obsidian had a problem with the memorial themselves, or they wouldn't have removed it. It's completely within their right to do so. Nowhere at any time have they promised backers of any certain level of donation would get to put something in their game they themselves didn't want there.

 

Saying you'll go out of your way to undermine Obsidian in the future over something as trivial as this only shows how utterly bitter and vile a person can be.

 

People who get hateful towards others for taking offense to something they can't themselves relate to is beyond revolting.

[Esser-Z]

That's not a man.

 

 

 

 

The thing a lot of you are missing is that it's a joke about a situation that often ends, not in suicide, but in a woman being murdered. And often times, at least in America, the killer getting away with it. There's serious bigotry involved with the situation, including the very idea that transwomen are men trying to trick you instead of, y'know, women.

 

Now, the backer probably didn't intend any of that. But that doesn't change the connotations of the joke. It added nothing to the game, makes light of deadly bigotry, and is insulting to a marginalized group. Why defend that?

 

Then start by being angry at Eric: the man who calls for all men, logically including those like him, to be murdered!

 

I have no idea who Eric is, but the woman who first brought up this whole thing has indeed joked with "Kill all men." Very clearly joked. Are you seriously using that as an attack? Because that's... pretty darn hilarious, actually.

 

It's like when I got called a eugenicist for doing a joke bit pretending to be an old-timey scientist. For someone so adamantly defending an offensive piece of humor, you really should pay more attention to what is and isn't serious!

 

Just a joke. And he only said it once

 

That's not a man, and that IS a joke. As certain people are so fond of saying grow a thicker skin.

 

Oh, and to the idea that she's not actually a fan? Nope. Rather loves the game. So, y'know. It'd be nice if you'd stop attacking her with that kind of BS.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Esser-Z

[mindswayer]

I like both poems. I especially like how the new one makes fun of the people who found the original offensive in the first place.

[Legbiter]

If it's true Obsidian have caved in to these SJW Offendatrons then I'm very disappointed.

[Mungri]

 

Jokes can still hurt! Very badly!

 

 

To very special butt hurt SJWs.

[1Leonard]

The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

You keep telling yourself that.

 

[Flashburn]

 

Jokes can still hurt! Very badly!

 

 

 

 

So, it's wrong to be outraged about casual bigotry, but it's okay to outraged about people being offended? GOOD TO KNOW.

 

Transgender individual face constant criticism and attacks for just trying to be themselves. Furthermore, it's medical fact that gender dysphoria is often accompanied by clinical depression. Posters here want to make things worse for already suffering people...why, exactly? Because they find it funny? Punch up, not down, folks.

 

Which is actually made worse by the current "treatment" so why don't you start by complaining that's the standard?

 

Hmm. I read your link. It specifically stated that HRT and surgery does treat dysphoria, but that additional care is recommended afterwards. I can't imagine why that might be. Surely there's no connection to people willfully misgendering and the like...

 

But thanks for misrepresenting the study!

 

Sorry, but I'm an adult and can take a joke.

 

Video related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knIroVvPZU4

Edited April 3, 2015 by Flashburn

[Moonlight Butterfly]

 

The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

 

Make it better by destroying artistic integrity and freedom of expression?

 

 

But if Obsidian decided to remove it isn't that what you are doing?

[ParasiteX]

While i like the new edited version. As it takes a stab at SJW stupidity.

I can't condone that they felt it necessary to change it in the first place.

[deuxhero]

 

Jokes can still hurt! Very badly!

 

 

 

 

So, it's wrong to be outraged about casual bigotry, but it's okay to outraged about people being offended? GOOD TO KNOW.

 

Transgender individual face constant criticism and attacks for just trying to be themselves. Furthermore, it's medical fact that gender dysphoria is often accompanied by clinical depression. Posters here want to make things worse for already suffering people...why, exactly? Because they find it funny? Punch up, not down, folks.

 

Which is actually made worse by the current "treatment" so why don't you start by complaining that's the standard?

 

Hmm. I read your link. It specifically stated that HRT and surgery does treat dysphoria, but that additional care is recommended afterwards. I can't imagine why that might be. Surely there's no connection to people willfully misgendering and the like...

 

But thanks for misrepresenting the study!

 

 

What the conclusion is drawn by the administering scientists doesn't change the data. It's one of the great things about the scientific method: Personal opinion is relagated to its own section the data is untained regardless of what beleifs.

 

Even if the conclusion was right, why do you advocate a treatment that increases suicide risk? Do you hate people with dysphoria you would prefer they take their own life than have dysphoria treated some other way?

[1Leonard]

If it's true Obsidian have caved in to these SJW Offendatrons then I'm very disappointed.

They changed the location and they changed the poem itself, make of that what you will.

[Nurse Aenima]

Spineless, cowardly decision. I wonder what next concession you will make, compromising the creative freedom. Remove all reference to violence? Remove blood? Revamp the dialogues so they do not hurt ANYONES precious feelings? What can change the nature of man? Few messages on tw@tter.

[ednanf]

It broke my imeeershuunn :( :( I can’t play anymore with such gamebreaking bug

[Esser-Z]

 

 

The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

 

Make it better by destroying artistic integrity and freedom of expression?

 

 

But if Obsidian decided to remove it isn't that what you are doing?

 

Nope! it wasn't even actually part of the game! It wasn't part of the story, or the setting, or a character, or anything! There's no "art" involved!

 

Furthermore, art is a conversation It's meant to provoke discussion and/or emotions. 

 

 

 

Jokes can still hurt! Very badly!

 

 

 

 

So, it's wrong to be outraged about casual bigotry, but it's okay to outraged about people being offended? GOOD TO KNOW.

 

Transgender individual face constant criticism and attacks for just trying to be themselves. Furthermore, it's medical fact that gender dysphoria is often accompanied by clinical depression. Posters here want to make things worse for already suffering people...why, exactly? Because they find it funny? Punch up, not down, folks.

 

Which is actually made worse by the current "treatment" so why don't you start by complaining that's the standard?

 

Hmm. I read your link. It specifically stated that HRT and surgery does treat dysphoria, but that additional care is recommended afterwards. I can't imagine why that might be. Surely there's no connection to people willfully misgendering and the like...

 

But thanks for misrepresenting the study!

 

 

What the conclusion is drawn by the administering scientists doesn't change the data. It's one of the great things about the scientific method: Personal opinion is relagated to its own section the data is untained regardless of what beleifs.

 

Even if the conclusion was right, why do you advocate a treatment that increases suicide risk? Do you hate people with dysphoria you would prefer they take their own life than have dysphoria treated some other way?

 

You're continuing to lie about the study.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Esser-Z

[deuxhero]

How petty can you guys be? Obviously Obsidian had a problem with the memorial themselves, or they wouldn't have removed it. It's completely within their right to do so. Nowhere at any time have they promised backers of any certain level of donation would get to put something in their game they themselves didn't want there.

 

Saying you'll go out of your way to undermine Obsidian in the future over something as trivial as this only shows how utterly bitter and vile a person can be.

 

People who get hateful towards others for taking offense to something they can't themselves relate to is beyond revolting.

 

Advocating killing half the planet<>utterly bitter and vile

Telling people their deals will not be honored so they shouldn't waste their money on them=utterly bitter and vile.

 

Good to know

[Pyromancer]

So gay sex is something to kill yourself over?

 

 

That doesn't sound very good either, mate.

 

 

If having sex against your orientation is fine why did LGBT community members spend years trying to convince everyone it's not a choice? You know better, amiright?