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I didn't know that removing a minor thing from game (that makes a group of people hurt while not affecting everyone else), means that Josh Sawyer, Chris Avallone (and the rest of the gang) lost their integrity and wont make witty dialogues anymore...

 

 

That's how it starts: with minor things.  The joke, like it or loathe it, was about as inoffensive as it gets, and in fact the butt of the joke is the guy who kills himself.  If *that* is grounds for 'offense', if *that* is the starting point for what is deemed 'unacceptable' - a gag that harms, quite literally, no one - then how long before something else gets removed?

 

"Really disappointed, Troika.  Was looking forward to this game, but all that talk about child abuse I found harmful and really triggering.  You should remove it before it hurts anyone else."

 

Yes, it was a backer-made thing, and so not exactly part of the overall canon (for want of a better term) of the game world, but it *still* sets a rather uncomfortable and unfortunate precedent.

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I seriously could not see a better way of dealing with this. Firedorn, if you're reading this, you're a funny SOB and you should be writing for RPG devs. My wife and I owe you a drink if you're ever in the Sacramento area.

 

But don't stay too long. Sacramento sucks.

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This thread must be a parody, people seriously thinking this is akin to censorship?

 

I'll continue to buy games from Obsidian and any expansion to PoE.

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I'm not sure people here get the joke in the changed limerick. Because its actually pretty funny.

 

I admit I don't get the "was also a card" reference. Can you explain?

 

In this context:

 

Card - a usually clownishly amusing person; a wag

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Shame on you for removing Firedorn's memorial. As a backer i'm disappointed.

No more money from me. In the next kickstarter go ask your SJW friends for money.

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dem sjws took meh funneh poem, wun stan' for dis shiat, obsidian moar like ob****tyan!!!

 

i am taking my copy of teh game and putting it in teh toilet cos thats teh place for it now, fo real though i gotta run toilet.exe and drag the shortcut there coz i only got a digital copy. 

 

oh wait the backer agreed to have it removed and submitted a new poem?? what a liberal poopoohead

 

Can you link me to the proof that the backer settled it?

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I'm not sure people here get the joke in the changed limerick. Because its actually pretty funny.

 

I admit I don't get the "was also a card" reference. Can you explain?

 

It's likely referring to an old use of the word:

 

Card (n)

- a person regarded as odd or amusing.
"He laughed: ‘You're a card, you know’"
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Even if the backer was ok with it, and got a refund. It WON'T be ok with Obsidian's customers.

 

Will I have to worry about the color purple being triggering and removed in a future game? Will Obsidian honor future backer goals? Will Obsidian even approach mature topics in the future for fear of offending people?

Imo, Obs has the right to add or subtract anything they feel is in their best business interests. :shrugz:

 

The "offending" memorial should have been addressed when it was submitted, not down the road when everyone craps themselves.

 

 

 

Catering to a disturbed person on twitter who probably hasn't played the game over the people who actually funded the game is totally in their long term business interests.  :thumbsup:

 

I wonder what content will be deemed problematic for the next patch.

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We will be addressing this in a backer update.

 

We did not remove the backer's memorial. It is now in Woodend Plains (adding and removing entries can cause the memorials to change locations). We worked in concert with the backer on the issue.

 

Again, when the update goes out you will have a full explanation of the situation.

I was planning on buying PoE tonight or tomorrow, as I'm finishing the previous game I was just playing.  But the idea that you're cravenly bowing to the twitter outrage mobs absolutely disgusts me.  This explanation better be good, or I will not be purchasing PoE.  There are plenty of other games out there that don't let the twitter mobs censor their games.  Once you go down that road, forever will it dominate your destiny.  They will know that you caved once, and will generate more and more fake outrage mobs to control you, and you'll quickly find yourself asking "Will this element generate a twitter mob?" at every step when creating your next game.

 

I am an absolutist on censorship.  The only way to deal with these people is to ignore them.  They're not the ones buying your game.  They can never be appeased.  That you would even consider such a thing is abominable.

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I don't see anything wrong with the memorial. It isn't sexist, homophobic, or anything like it. To presume it's homophobic is to imply that it is wrong to not be happy about unknowingly having sexual contact with a man. A person's body is their choice - therefore, it is completely reasonable for a person, even an imaginary one in a limerick, to make a personal reaction according to their character's perspective. Realizing all different makeups of characters is a mainstay of RPGs. Removing the limerick seems like it was maybe a bit anti-RPG.

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All you self entitled folk do realise, that as it changes nothing in the gameplay....they do not have to tell you or inform you of anything?  

 

As long as they spoke to that particular backer directly about it then at the end of the day, it's none of your concern or business.  Why does it need to be in the patch notes?  Nothing to do with you people.  

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There once was a rock that managed to singe

from someone in the fringe looking to lynch.

She also said "kill all men" without a flinch

But now i know, next time they're in a pinch

I won't give those cowards another inch.

 

edit: glad they didn't completely remove it, but I'm not deleting the poem.

Edited by lilbuddha
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Attacking another users person is against forum rules regardless of what you think about world.

 

Every opinion is valid even if it's utterly wrong and absolute idiotic and don't match with real world. 

 

Your definition of attack is false and is demagogical.

Also opinions of idiots are not valid by definition regardless of what you think about it.

 

 

Let say that you say that you are american and I start to claim that you are actually French, I am actually attacking your person here regardless of what is truth or is it just my opinion because of your heritage or something else. Because I single out you and claim that you don't tell truth or something, instead of talking generally about something.

 

There is were few valid opinion in world if opinions of idiots aren't sufficed in my opinion.

 

I don't think you example is a very good comparison. But since you picked it, it would be more accurate to say someone born and raised in America, feel and claim to be French, some people will insist the person is American even if the person were to get french citizenship.

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Read the revised text. More people should as it's really a clever bit of work. I'm still not particularly keen on the idea of social pressure of any form resulting in alterations but this might have been the best reply if one had to be given.

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"When the foul sore of envy corrupts the vanquished heart, the very exterior itself shows how forcibly the mind is urged by madness. For paleness seizes the complexion, the eyes are weighed down, the spirit is inflamed, while the limbs are chilled, there is frenzy in the heart, there is gnashing with the teeth."

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Well say goodbye to creative freedom and artistic integrity, Obsidian, because that's not going to work for you anymore.  You might be able to create some great games and stories, but that doesn't matter anymore because we can always trust you to change them at the request of perpetually-offended SJWs that aren't even the audience for your games.  Good to know they can remove any ~*problematic*~ content at any time.
 
You have set a terrible precedent that is going to haunt you forever.

 

And I find it incredibly amusing that the one that requested this change in the first place has no problem with saying "Kill all men" while saying that "seeing hate in a game you enjoy hurts."  The absolute hypocrisy.

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I don't see anything wrong with the memorial. It isn't sexist, homophobic, or anything like it. To presume it's homophobic is to imply that it is wrong to not be happy about unknowingly having sexual contact with a man. A person's body is their choice - therefore, it is completely reasonable for a person, even an imaginary one in a limerick, to make a personal reaction according to their character's perspective. Realizing all different makeups of characters is a mainstay of RPGs. Removing the limerick seems like it was maybe a bit anti-RPG.

 

Firstly I'm of the understanding that referring to a trans woman as 'really a man' is 100% not cool.

Secondly I'm a backer and I thought the joke was kind of ****ty. It's a small thing, as people have pointed out, so it should not be a big deal to remove it or replace it. 

I really don't understand why people are getting so butthurt about this, it's sad.  

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As much as I recognize the irony of being outraged by outrage culture, I have to say I'm extremely disappointed and feel more than a little betrayed.  It's just one instance of outrage culture bullying around everyone else, but this time it's a game I had quite a bit of both money and emotional investment in.

 

The demands for this to change are not connected in any significant way to people being hurt by the joke.  This is about a group of people who have developed a taste for power, and managed to convince themselves that their addiction to witch-hunts and outrage are in some way servicing the greater good.  It isn't.  It's an effective brand strategy for a power-mad mob, and nothing more.

 

When they say "I'm offended", what is actually meant is that they've seen something they know is improper, unacceptable speech by their subculture's standards.  In doing so, they've found a target that they know their friends will willingly join them in attacking, and that more likely than not, they can feel the thrill of exerting their influence on others.

 

It's entirely possible, Obsidian, that you all went along with this more than willingly.  It's possible some of you are even part of the same crowd, and are excited by watching society shaped by your friends in a way you've convinced yourself is surely, surely for the best (and no judgement: I've been a part of witch-hunts just like this one as recently as a year ago, before I figured out what was happening).

 

Regardless, as minor as this change is (and I admit it is minor, and fully understand anyone reading this and thinking "Jesus, dude, it's one dumb joke"), you've just acted to give more power to an insatiable mob of witch-hunters.  When they attack their next target (and they will), know that whoever they hurt will feel the effects of their attacks just the slightest bit more deeply because of the power you've just given them.

Edited by Abelian75
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I expect the next thing being "revised" is the killing of animals because people think that's offensive? Or maybe the killing of people of another faith?

 

Whatever Obsidian's explanation the damage is done, whether they removed it or "revised" it to make it more politically correct. it's clear they've just caved in to some whining SJW's. Absolutely pathetic.

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I'm dedicating my whole fortune (144,000 bitcoins) to taking down Obsidian - I just sent all of it to Bob Odenkirk and am hiring him as my lawyer. Everyone else should do the same, I'm sure we can win this battle against this giant evil corporate monstrosity that we took part in creating.

 

Say goodbye to the video game industry you pompous buffoons #aynrand #libertariansunite

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Even if the backer was ok with it, and got a refund. It WON'T be ok with Obsidian's customers.

 

Will I have to worry about the color purple being triggering and removed in a future game? Will Obsidian honor future backer goals? Will Obsidian even approach mature topics in the future for fear of offending people?

Imo, Obs has the right to add or subtract anything they feel is in their best business interests. :shrugz:

 

The "offending" memorial should have been addressed when it was submitted, not down the road when everyone craps themselves.

 

 

 

Catering to a disturbed person on twitter who probably hasn't played the game over the people who actually funded the game is totally in their long term business interests.  :thumbsup:

 

I wonder what content will be deemed problematic for the next patch.

 

Kill all Elves!

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Compromising artistic freedom for whiny LGTB lobbies. GJ obsidian

 

Not even have the balls to put it in patch notes, pathetic

 

FARGO would have never done this !!! That's a real old school developer!

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"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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Well say goodbye to creative freedom and artistic integrity, Obsidian, because that's not going to work for you anymore.  You might be able to create some great games and stories, but that doesn't matter anymore because we can always trust you to change them at the request of perpetually-offended SJWs that aren't even the audience for your games.  Good to know they can remove any ~*problematic*~ content at any time.

 

You have set a terrible precedent that is going to haunt you forever.

 

And I find it incredibly amusing that the one that requested this change in the first place has no problem with saying "Kill all men" while saying that "seeing hate in a game you enjoy hurts."  The absolute hypocrisy.

 

This +10000000

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"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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Reminder this is the person who found the joke and caused such an outrage over it.

 

https://archive.today/ayWB5

https://archive.today/xvuRl

https://archive.today/GAITe

https://archive.today/HDnTV

https://archive.today/9NfcE

https://archive.today/56XGn

https://archive.today/GaUcF

https://archive.today/rJTjG

https://archive.today/NviKC

https://archive.today/OnIuA

https://archive.today/Symxm

https://archive.today/eKYQh

 

#Killallmen Put All Men in concetration camps. Die CIS scum. Even if this person is posting these as a joke it seems like they should be  the leat offended by what was on the tombstone. So Obisdian is going to cave to the demands of a raving lunatic who asked their followers and other people who aren't even gamers to retweet to and I quote "apply pressure" rather than it's backers and Gamers?

 

Reminder this has happened before with another successful Kickstarter Game - Divine Divnity

 

http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2015/03/divinity-original-sin-dev-talks-boob-plates-sexism-and-moral-outrage/

 

When you own a pizza place and one day the mob enters your little shack, threatens you by saying if I don’t stop selling pepperoni pizza’s they’ll do anything in their power to make sure you go out of business, then what should we call this? Blackmail? Censorship? Harassment? Extortion? or simply a trade embargo?

 

 

In the end the story remains the same, you are forced to rethink your actions and it leaves a shadow hanging over your creations. Every artist deals with criticism differently, I feel that inevitably your next piece will already be affected by it, consciously or unconsciously.

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