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Oh, and to the idea that she's not actually a fan? Nope. Rather loves the game. So, y'know. It'd be nice if you'd stop attacking her with that kind of BS.

That's not a man, and that IS a joke. As certain people are so fond of saying grow a thicker skin.

 

The problem is, you can't have it both ways.  If this limerick is an issue, then so are her jokes.  And if these are only jokes, then why is a limerick such an issue and a problem?  I don't really understand.

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The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

I want you to consider something: What if someone created, in jest, #killalltrannies.  I think both of us would likely consider the person who created it to be scum.  So why is #killallmen OK to you, then? 

 

And I don't think taking the fun out of video games will make them better.  Because that's the road you're going down.  We saw this with Dragon Age: Inquisition.  The characters were extremely bland compared to the ones that came before in order to kowtow to the pearl clutcher set.  Games need more edge, not less.  You would turn gaming into a wasteland of saturday morning cartoon blandness.

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@Esser-Z

 

I'm not. Fact: The study concludes the "treatment" results in a higher suicide rate than Dysphoria itself.

 

You can attribute any reason you want to this, but the fact remains

 

Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9)
Edited by deuxhero
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Never negotiate. You will only encourage more acts of terror.

 

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The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

 

Make it better by destroying artistic integrity and freedom of expression?

 

 

But if Obsidian decided to remove it isn't that what you are doing?

 

They removed it AFTER someone complained. They removed ORIGINAL content in order to appease one hateful individual.

 

What next? Is someone gonna take offence to Durance's hilarious and often "inappropriate" dialogue and demand the removal of that?

 

Where does it end?

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Alright. Backer here, and loving the game so far. Now, time to stop lurking and actually post... Wow, what a first post.

 

On one hand, the resolution is very witty. From a joke, we now have a mockery of the outrage regarding the original poem which also hints at that poem's existence. It was screenshoted and archived to hell and back, so it's going to disappear anytime soon. And I'm sure someone is already working on a mod to place it back. It was a smart move, very witty. I liked it.

 

On the other, though... This change wouldn't have happened if Obsidian didn't entertain the thought of entertaining the request a bunch of outrage vampires on Twitter, most of which ain't even your backers or buy videogames at all. The head honcho of which is a disgusting creature whose objective in life is to #KillAllMen.

 

I know that this was probably because the guys have a couple 'SJWs' in the team. That boobplate poem speaks volumes. ;) Point is, is people shouting mean tweets at you all it takes for you to change your mind and aspects of your game, Obsidian?

 

What happens next time this happens? Whaf it they decide they don't want the three with the hanged people anymore? What if they don't want so many humans, even though your Lore makes it the most numerous race of the world? What if they don't want Cyphers and Animancers to affect souls anymore because they suddenly decide that's rape? These are the same people who tried to defend mayonnaise as a gender.

 

Again, I like the solution you found. But just the fact that you were willing to think of one... It's a slippery slope, caving to outrage culture mobs. Just saying.

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I have 

 

I'm schizophrenic. I have very high odds of dying and early death due to suicide...or being murdered by a cop.

 

There's a lot of jokes in PoE about hearing voices and such. Do I find it offensive? Yes. Do I bitch and whine about being discriminated against because of some jokes in a video game?

 

Not so much.

 

If someone did though I'd be completely understanding about it. 

It's your decision whether to complain about it as it was hers. I doubt she expected it to go so far as it did. 

 

She did expect it do go as far as it did and she is very happy about the results apparently. Now we're going to have to wait and see if she starts finding other parts of the game to complain about now that she has gotten as taste for blood. 

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Oh, and to the idea that she's not actually a fan? Nope. Rather loves the game. So, y'know. It'd be nice if you'd stop attacking her with that kind of BS.

That's not a man, and that IS a joke. As certain people are so fond of saying grow a thicker skin.

 

The problem is, you can't have it both ways.  If this limerick is an issue, then so are her jokes.  And if these are only jokes, then why is a limerick such an issue and a problem?  I don't really understand.

 

One is an absurdist position that nobody (or very very very few people) seriously holds. The other conjures images of a situation that can be deadly to trans women. Totally the same!

 

 

This'll be my last post, at least for now. No offense, but I've got better things to do than argue against the outrage brigade. ;)

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That's not a man, and that IS a joke. As certain people are so fond of saying grow a thicker skin.

 

Oh, and to the idea that she's not actually a fan? Nope. Rather loves the game. So, y'know. It'd be nice if you'd stop attacking her with that kind of BS.

 

Joking about genocide or gendercide is a joke?  Well, I guess that means that the original was just fine too right?  You can't have it both ways.

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So, any chance of a modder coming in and giving us a version where we can add the original back in?  Find a proactive solution rather than deal with the arguing and (semi-understandable) cowardice shown today by the devs.

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Someone spends $500 to get the opportunity to make whatever they like in an epitaph, and one misguided twitter follower (are they even a backer?) whines about it?

 

Oh, wait. I wasn't aware of this. As a backer, do we get special consideration where we are the only fans Obsidian needs to care about?

 

Nice! I should take advantage of that.

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Welcome to the forum, Meinos Raen. While I can't agree or disagree with your main points, at least you thought about them and tried to present them in a productive way. :Cant's hearty greeting icon:


Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

 

Really? So her joking about killing all men shouldn't be taken at face value then? Like another joke perhaps...

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Oh, and to the idea that she's not actually a fan? Nope. Rather loves the game. So, y'know. It'd be nice if you'd stop attacking her with that kind of BS.

That's not a man, and that IS a joke. As certain people are so fond of saying grow a thicker skin.

 

The problem is, you can't have it both ways.  If this limerick is an issue, then so are her jokes.  And if these are only jokes, then why is a limerick such an issue and a problem?  I don't really understand.

 

One is an absurdist position that nobody (or very very very few people) seriously holds. The other conjures images of a situation that can be deadly to trans women. Totally the same!

 

 

This'll be my last post, at least for now. No offense, but I've got better things to do than argue against the outrage brigade. ;)

 

 

Because everyone thinks A murder is OK, just as long as its not part of an effort to remove an identity...


Never negotiate. You will only encourage more acts of terror.

 

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The thing a lot of you are missing is that it's a joke about a situation that often ends, not in suicide, but in a woman being murdered. And often times, at least in America, the killer getting away with it. There's serious bigotry involved with the situation, including the very idea that transwomen are men trying to trick you instead of, y'know, women.

 

Now, the backer probably didn't intend any of that. But that doesn't change the connotations of the joke. It added nothing to the game, makes light of deadly bigotry, and is insulting to a marginalized group. Why defend that?

 

Then start by being angry at Eric: the man who calls for all men, logically including those like him, to be murdered!

 

I have no idea who Eric is, but the woman who first brought up this whole thing has indeed joked with "Kill all men." Very clearly joked. Are you seriously using that as an attack? Because that's... pretty darn hilarious, actually.

 

It's like when I got called a eugenicist for doing a joke bit pretending to be an old-timey scientist. For someone so adamantly defending an offensive piece of humor, you really should pay more attention to what is and isn't serious!

 

No, sadly the woman who brought up this whole thing wasn't joking. She is a manhater/misandrist. She has verified this as clear as day several times because indeed most peoples initial reaction is "surely this is a joke?".

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The change to the limerick is better than it just being removed entirely, but regardless, it shouldn't have been changed. Kowtowing to extremist in ANY way should NEVER be done.

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The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

 

Make it better by destroying artistic integrity and freedom of expression?

 

 

But if Obsidian decided to remove it isn't that what you are doing?

 

They removed it AFTER someone complained. They removed ORIGINAL content in order to appease one hateful individual.

 

What next? Is someone gonna take offence to Durance's hilarious and often "inappropriate" dialogue and demand the removal of that?

 

Where does it end?

 

When there's a chance it will hurt Obsidian's image. As has always been the case. This is a business decision, that's how business work.

 

Obsidian is not part of your wierd outrage vs. outrage trip.

 

Also :

"In the case of this specific content, we checked with the backer who wrote it and asked them about changing it. We respect our backers greatly, and felt it was our duty to include them in the process. They gave us new content which we have used to replace what is in the game. To be clear, we followed the process we would have followed had this content been vetted prior to the release of the product."

- Backer email

 

So calm your t*ts guys and gals and get a hobby. E.g., play this new cool game.

Edited by Prime-Mover
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So, any chance of a modder coming in and giving us a version where we can add the original back in?  Find a proactive solution rather than deal with the arguing and (semi-understandable) cowardice shown today by the devs.

 

I'm already looking at this. It should be quite easy in theory, as it's all stored in an XML file.

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Because changing someone's 500 USD+interest reward will NEVER hurt Obsidian's image.

 

Spending man hours on this instead of any actual issue surely makes Obsidian's increddibly notorious reputation for buggy games better.

Edited by deuxhero
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Never negotiate. You will only encourage more acts of terror.

 

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Do you people complaining about how Obsidian is ignoring, betraying, or whatever their fans and backers not realize that many of us who were in favor of removal/modification of that memorial are also fans and backers? 

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Wait, so the occasions when the violent rape text is mandatory to sit through to progress the game are okay but a bit of a silly poem isn't?

 

*takes notes*

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You read my post.

 

You have been eaten by a grue.

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1) You guys ****ed up. You allowed the content then removed it. You either shouldnt have put it in to begin with, or kept it.

Ok, so by that logic no error should ever be fixed, because it was there in the first place. I hope you live by your rules and don't ever you spell shecking, because, you know, whatever you wrote first is there to stay!

 

 

2) You caved because of a few thin skinned people on twitter (I wonder how many acually backed you), on a matter that is subjective (being offended). Can you also kill all elves because my headmate Pelinal Whitestrake finds them offensive?

So instead they should cave in to people like you and reinstate the content?

All the whining here in the thread 'I will never again buy anything from Obsidian' is people trying to put pressure on Obsidian.

 

 

3) This guy you screwed over, paid for that reward. Did you atleast give him a refund, because this being done quietly makes me think you didnt.

Thats between Obsidian and him. You don't know how they handled the situation, and it's none of your business to start with.

 

 

Enjoy your thin skinned fans Obsidian. Lets hope they actually support you enough to buy your games when they arent whining on twitter.

Well, I have my own opinion about who is thin skinned here. And I know you won't agree with me...
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It would maybe help t

 

 

The person who pointed this out, by the way, is not misandrist. She does not hate men. None of us criticizing games "have it in" for gaming, either.

 

Quite the opposite. We want to make it better.

 

Really? So her joking about killing all men shouldn't be taken at face value then? Like another joke perhaps...

 

It's grimly funny how these SJW's always turn out to be themselves utter human garbage.

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For Firedorn all the Lads grieve

 

This Adam woke up next to Eve.

 

But beneath leaves of Fig,

 

He found Berries and Twig,

 

So Himself off a cliff he did heave.

 

 

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From the Kickstarter update:

 

 

Backer Content
It's come to our attention that a piece of backer-created content has made it into Pillars of Eternity that was not vetted. Once it was brought to our attention, it followed the same vetting process as all of our other content. Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone.
In the case of this specific content, we checked with the backer who wrote it and asked them about changing it. We respect our backers greatly, and felt it was our duty to include them in the process. They gave us new content which we have used to replace what is in the game. To be clear, we followed the process we would have followed had this content been vetted prior to the release of the product.
We appreciate the faith you have all given us into making Pillars of Eternity the great game that it has become, and we appreciate the strength of conviction all of you bring to every conversation we have together.
Sincerely,
Feargus Urquhart, CEO 
Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.
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This is really disapointing.  I really wish I can get my money back. Well last time i Bought a game from Obsidian. I am sorry put I do not support Censorship in any form.

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I used to be a part of gamergate. Not a big part, mind, but I tried my best to help, what I thought (and think) is a cause worth helping. Go to 8chan and look for the thread on their board about this. Those people (NOT THE MOVEMENT BUT THOSE PEOPLE) have turned into the SJWs who won't leave them alone. I, as one person (and my wife as another person,) can see why this whole thing happened the way it did and Firedorn is a GD comedic genius for taking the ball and running with it the way he did. I also have a lot of respect for allowing him to skewer all parties involved.

 

Obsidian and everyone in it, I would have been disheartened and deeply disappointed if you had allowed a vocal minority to dictate how you made your games when, as I am to understand it, you left big-name publishers in order to distance yourself from, what is essentially, the same idea. I may not agree with everything every developer espouses but I don't need to in order to enjoy a game you created.

 

TL:DR version: Art shouldn't have to "mean something". Stories shouldn't need allegory. Games shouldn't need a message. Make what you want how you want and let the free market decide... ALL of the free market.

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