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Can someone explain the change the Chill Fog? I don't get the description of the change.

 

 

Chill Fog was a rare exception where a damage-dealing Wizard spell didn't hit allies. This meant you could safely stick it directly on your squad to damage anyone who got close. Now it hurts your team too.

 

I actually agree that it could use a buff now. The issue is that nerfing it in this way has the opposite effect and makes Fan of Flames superior. Fan of Flames seems superior on the damage front, but it's cone shape AOE and ability to damage allies made it situational. Chill fog wasn't as devistating but was useful more often. Now it's just not so great.

 

I barely used Fan of Flames because my tank was always in the way, but I used Chill Fog all the time only on enemies thinking it hits everyone and it was still very useful as I could easily set it up to hit many targets without hitting any of mine.
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Can someone explain the change the Chill Fog? I don't get the description of the change.

 

 

Chill Fog was a rare exception where a damage-dealing Wizard spell didn't hit allies. This meant you could safely stick it directly on your squad to damage anyone who got close. Now it hurts your team too.

 

I actually agree that it could use a buff now. The issue is that nerfing it in this way has the opposite effect and makes Fan of Flames superior. Fan of Flames seems superior on the damage front, but it's cone shape AOE and ability to damage allies made it situational. Chill fog wasn't as devistating but was useful more often. Now it's just not so great.

 

I barely used Fan of Flames because my tank was always in the way, but I used Chill Fog all the time only on enemies thinking it hits everyone and it was still very useful as I could easily set it up to hit many targets without hitting any of mine.

 

This.

 

Fan of Flames requires the kind of movement and mobility that PoE punishes you for even considering. It's a powerful spell, but there's no chance in hell I'll ever be using it much, no matter how nerfed other abilities get. Getting yourself into a position where you'll not hit your allies is just asking for getting Engaged and stabbed to pieces.


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Thanks a lot for this Obsidian!

Awesome list!

 

And for those complaining about wizard spells and how fan of flames don't ever work.

 

Fan of flames work fine, it's just a mid-game spell, instead of an opener/kill everything in sight.

After you've engaged the enemy and have them locked down, then is when you sneak up behind them and get of two or more fan of flames, that can WRECK entire packs of enemies.

Is it easy to use? Not super easy no. But the people keeping on saying that mobility is impossible in PoE is doing something wrong, I'm able to use mobility as long as I plan ahead in any fight (that doesn't include teleporting shadows, cause eff them!)

Edited by kat7ra
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He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . .

when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you

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Everyone's focusing on Chill Fog and Slicken and saying that wizard is getting nerfed, but they're all ignoring that several wizard spells are getting range buffs... This is exactly what the wizard needs - at least in principle, we'll see what the actual changes are...

 

All in all, the patch looks fantastic.

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Is anyone else upset that the Priest spell Withdraw isn't being nerfed? Why would they allow such an obvious, game-breaking cheese (Withdrawing targets in any choke points, causing enemy AI to act extremely stupid, who just run back and forth taking ranged barrage after barrage) in a game meant to be challenging? Enemies and allies should be able to phase through Withdrawn people/summons.

 

And yes, I know that other cheeses exist, but this one seems overt and particularly silly.

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Is anyone else upset that the Priest spell Withdraw isn't being nerfed? Why would they allow such an obvious, game-breaking cheese (Withdrawing targets in any choke points, causing enemy AI to act extremely stupid, who just run back and forth taking ranged barrage after barrage) in a game meant to be challenging? Enemies and allies should be able to phase through Withdrawn people/summons.

 

And yes, I know that other cheeses exist, but this one seems overt and particularly silly.

 

My guess: because it's so obviously cheesy. A lot of people love to cheese the hell out of the game as long as they can convince themselves that they're not doing it, that they're just good players playing the way the game is meant to be played. This is one reason why Cipher is so popular, for example. Withdraw in a choke point is just so blatantly cheesy that very few people can keep up that pretense.

 

In other words: Withdraw cheese it the kind of cheese that's very, very easy to most people just to skip and ignore entirely.

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Everyone's focusing on Chill Fog and Slicken and saying that wizard is getting nerfed, but they're all ignoring that several wizard spells are getting range buffs... This is exactly what the wizard needs - at least in principle, we'll see what the actual changes are...

We mentioned the range increase, but it's hard to discuss it because we don't know what exactly it is whereas with Chill Fog and Slicken, we know precisely what the changes are. If a range that used to be 5 meters has been increased to 6 meters, that's one thing, but if it has become 15 meters, that's quite another.

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Is anyone else upset that the Priest spell Withdraw isn't being nerfed? Why would they allow such an obvious, game-breaking cheese (Withdrawing targets in any choke points, causing enemy AI to act extremely stupid, who just run back and forth taking ranged barrage after barrage) in a game meant to be challenging? Enemies and allies should be able to phase through Withdrawn people/summons.

 

And yes, I know that other cheeses exist, but this one seems overt and particularly silly.

 

My guess: because it's so obviously cheesy. A lot of people love to cheese the hell out of the game as long as they can convince themselves that they're not doing it, that they're just good players playing the way the game is meant to be played. This is one reason why Cipher is so popular, for example. Withdraw in a choke point is just so blatantly cheesy that very few people can keep up that pretense.

 

In other words: Withdraw cheese it the kind of cheese that's very, very easy to most people just to skip and ignore entirely.

 

 

Things being obviously and flagrantly cheesy and non-issues to the vast majority of players (everyone that isn't actively trying to cheese encounters and break the game) have not stopped Sawyer in the past. It's the reason you cannot withdraw from combat once you've engaged, for example. This is going to be fixed in some way, I'm sure, even if he has to redesign the entire game or remove the spell entirely. That you can be sure of.

 

So it's actually very notable that they haven't "fixed" this "issue" yet.

 

Not that I care, because I think your reasoning is sound. But this is most definitely not a view shared by Sawyer. The most likely reason it hasn't been fixed is because he hasn't noticed it yet, himself, because like most thinking individuals, he's probably not even thought of doing it.


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Sometimes it almost seems like you personally dislike Josh Sawyer, like you think he's literally out to directly stifle fun as much as he can.

Sorry if this comes across as insulting, I don't mean it to be. I'm just curious where your strong emotions come from on this.

Edited by Katarack21
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Things being obviously and flagrantly cheesy and non-issues to the vast majority of players (everyone that isn't actively trying to cheese encounters and break the game) have not stopped Sawyer in the past. It's the reason you cannot withdraw from combat once you've engaged, for example. This is going to be fixed in some way, I'm sure, even if he has to redesign the entire game or remove the spell entirely. That you can be sure of.

 

So it's actually very notable that they haven't "fixed" this "issue" yet.

 

Not that I care, because I think your reasoning is sound. But this is most definitely not a view shared by Sawyer. The most likely reason it hasn't been fixed is because he hasn't noticed it yet, himself, because like most thinking individuals, he's probably not even thought of doing it.

I'm so f***ing tired of all this passive-aggressive Sawyer hate...

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@Stun: How are you playing your wizard?

I'm not. My wizard was Aloth. But I dumped him the moment I found Hiravias and discovered how vastly superior his spells were. Multiple summoning spells, multiple CC spells, multiple high damage AOEs, including the two best ally friendly AOE nukes in the game (Returning Storm and Relentless storm), Healing spells! His class simply offered more than any wizard. Period.

 

But to answer your question, I try to play Aloth....normal-like. I open the fight with a nuke, then I disable the survivors (that's where Slicken usually came in), then I assess the situation. If many still live, I fire another Damage AOE. if only a couple remain, then I concentrate on single target spells.

 

With Hiravias though (or any druid) you have many, many more options. Again, you can summon lesser and greater Blights. you can buff and heal your party. If you're surrounded you can cast returning/relentless storm. You can petrify, and paralyze enemies, you can whittle them down with the various CC + damage spells (infestation of maggots and the various 'vine' spells, for example)

Edited by Stun
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Is anyone else upset that the Priest spell Withdraw isn't being nerfed? Why would they allow such an obvious, game-breaking cheese (Withdrawing targets in any choke points, causing enemy AI to act extremely stupid, who just run back and forth taking ranged barrage after barrage) in a game meant to be challenging? Enemies and allies should be able to phase through Withdrawn people/summons.

 

And yes, I know that other cheeses exist, but this one seems overt and particularly silly.

 

Probably needs to be re-worked and not just nerfed. Maybe set it to prevent disengagement attacks so units can disengage safely, but making a unit invincible always seemed like a place-holder effect; just look at the effects of the spell, -9999 damage.

Edited by View619
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Is anyone else upset that the Priest spell Withdraw isn't being nerfed? Why would they allow such an obvious, game-breaking cheese (Withdrawing targets in any choke points, causing enemy AI to act extremely stupid, who just run back and forth taking ranged barrage after barrage) in a game meant to be challenging? Enemies and allies should be able to phase through Withdrawn people/summons.

 

And yes, I know that other cheeses exist, but this one seems overt and particularly silly.

 

Probably needs to be re-worked and not just nerfed. Maybe set it to prevent disengagement attacks so units can disengage safely.

 

 

Yeah, forgot to say anything about that... I think it might not be all that easy to fix without having to basically create a new, different spell with the same name, so Obisidian might take some time to think and test how it really should be fixed.

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Is anyone else upset that the Priest spell Withdraw isn't being nerfed? Why would they allow such an obvious, game-breaking cheese (Withdrawing targets in any choke points, causing enemy AI to act extremely stupid, who just run back and forth taking ranged barrage after barrage) in a game meant to be challenging? Enemies and allies should be able to phase through Withdrawn people/summons.

 

And yes, I know that other cheeses exist, but this one seems overt and particularly silly.

 

Probably needs to be re-worked and not just nerfed. Maybe set it to prevent disengagement attacks so units can disengage safely.

 

 

Yeah, forgot to say anything about that... I think it might not be all that easy to fix without having to basically create a new, different spell with the same name, so Obisidian might take some time to think and test how it really should be fixed.

 

 

Bonus DR and deflection vs disengagement attacks? That way you can "withdraw" but can't sit in the front and be an invisible, immovable object.

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I love the patch notes!

 

However, I missed the one about certain maps loading in really low-rez/pixalated. Seems to be the same maps for me no matter how many times I exit the map and re-load. One example is the upstairs area in the Stronghold where you sleep. That map is super low rez all the time.

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Is anyone else upset that the Priest spell Withdraw isn't being nerfed? Why would they allow such an obvious, game-breaking cheese (Withdrawing targets in any choke points, causing enemy AI to act extremely stupid, who just run back and forth taking ranged barrage after barrage) in a game meant to be challenging? Enemies and allies should be able to phase through Withdrawn people/summons.

 

And yes, I know that other cheeses exist, but this one seems overt and particularly silly.

 

I actually hoped that Withdraw will get nerfed too. Right now I just refuse to use it.

 

I'd suggest that Withdraw should have shorter duration or provide only a partial damage mitigation.

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I am different.

 

I love the notification and patch status updates.

 

I dislike it very much that there are 12 pages of posts in reply to it already ... full of complaints and doubts and attempts at trying to influence the developers in their decision of what to fix ... although the patch has not been released yet.

 

shrugnz9.gif

 

What do you hope to achieve with that? Shouldn't there be a separate topic for every concern instead of collecting everything in here?

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*getting tired of nerf-this-nerf-that crowd bringing MMO attitude to a single player CRPG*

 

They've started nerfing abilities but we have several difficulty modes.. so once nerfed this or that spell becomes OK on normal, mediocre on hard and totally useless on POD.. How do you actually "balance" this,uh?

 

Magic is already nerfed in this game:

 

- rest limit

- certain buffing spells disabled out of combat

This one doesn't make any sense(IN-GAME) at all. Why a wizard can't cast this or that defensive\buffing spell outside of combat? It's just contrived.And this is why it is so irritating

- certain attack abilities disabled out of combat

It doesn't make any sense either. So, a fighter can't use X to attack someone coz..well. no reason.. just coz devs say so.

These totally artificial constraints are just bad pretty much coz they are ridiculous and make absolutely no sense. That's just lazy.

 

It's hard to  understood Sawyer's mad obsession with "balance". It's a single player game, and a party-based game at that. Who cares if one or two classes are slightly more powerful than the others?

 

Balancing choices so that all of them are viable for the (single) player is nice and all theoretically however when everything is special, nothing is. Homogeneity is boring And Sawyer's whole thing about not wanting players to make broken builds(OP or just plain bad)  is bollocks anyway. Where is freedom in that? Where is choice int that? Where is this excitement when you discover something truly powerful in that?None.

 

 

I'm not happy about all  this. Withdraw? Jesus..Leave withdraw alone..And no, I haven't even used it once. . It's not the fault of the spell, rather non-existent AI. But of course it's easier to nerf the spell then to code some proper AI.

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This one doesn't make any sense(IN-GAME) at all. Why a wizard can't cast this or that defensive\buffing spell outside of combat? It's just contrived.And this is why it is so irritating

 

 

Because pre-buffing is tedious and if you allowed it you would need to balance encounters around this thus forcing everyone to pre-buff.

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It's hard to  understood Sawyer's mad obsession with "balance". It's a single player game, and a party-based game at that. Who cares if one or two classes are slightly more powerful than the others?

 

This "balance doesn't matter in single player games" thing is becoming far too common, and I have no idea why people think balancing video games stems from MMOs. Balance belongs in EVERY video game, no matter how many players it involves. If a class or a race is well above others, why would you ever pick ones below it? You can answer "well roleplaying and obviously you don't have to play the overpowered option", but it still affects the game as a whole, especially in a game like this that uses the classes for enemies as well.

 

When you pick the underpowered option, no matter how much roleplay you put into it you still know that you picked the worse option, and probably will not have as much fun. Hell, you post about your character online and people will probably call you a masochist for playing whatever you picked. This is in the worst case scenario, where a class or a race or gameplay option is so badly balanced that it's actually painful to play - and believe me, single player rpgs have had such mishaps in the past due to bad balancing. 

 

Balance does matter. 

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*getting tired of nerf-this-nerf-that crowd bringing MMO attitude to a single player CRPG*

 

It's hard to  understood Sawyer's mad obsession with "balance". It's a single player game, and a party-based game at that. Who cares if one or two classes are slightly more powerful than the others?

 

 

Wanting balance in a CRPG has nothing to do with mmo player mentality, as I would like to use the full selection of spells without making encounters trivial. Stop complaining and start looking into modding what you don't like out of the game. Saying that Withdraw should not be touched, yet never actually using it shows that you're just complaining for the sake of it.

Edited by View619
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I dislike it very much that there are 12 pages of posts in reply to it already ... full of complaints and doubts and attempts at trying to influence the developers in their decision of what to fix ... although the patch has not been released yet.

 

You're not alone, I feel the same. I don't understand why people are so obsessed with discussing balancing changes as if it was a MOBA. Don't forget to have fun playing the game, guys...

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Is anyone else upset that the Priest spell Withdraw isn't being nerfed? Why would they allow such an obvious, game-breaking cheese (Withdrawing targets in any choke points, causing enemy AI to act extremely stupid, who just run back and forth taking ranged barrage after barrage) in a game meant to be challenging? Enemies and allies should be able to phase through Withdrawn people/summons.

 

And yes, I know that other cheeses exist, but this one seems overt and particularly silly.

 

I actually hoped that Withdraw will get nerfed too. Right now I just refuse to use it.

 

I'd suggest that Withdraw should have shorter duration or provide only a partial damage mitigation.

 

I'd like it to have a shorter duration too, not because of ways to abuse it but because I'd like to get my people back in the fight before it's over one of these days.

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Sometimes it almost seems like you personally dislike Josh Sawyer, like you think he's literally out to directly stifle fun as much as he can.

 

Sorry if this comes across as insulting, I don't mean it to be. I'm just curious where your strong emotions come from on this.

 

Eh, I think that personal dislike is probably rather apt at this point, but honestly he could be the greatest guy in the world and ultimately I just question a range of decisions and his inability to either understand the criticism he receives, or ability to defend the decisions. He's obviously no mere moron, so when he deflects criticism it's hard to take the fact that he "misunderstands" at face value. He is either so aloof he cannot fathom why someone would question A, B or C, or he's openly dismissive and arrogant.

 

Either isn't a very charming thought.

 

 

Things being obviously and flagrantly cheesy and non-issues to the vast majority of players (everyone that isn't actively trying to cheese encounters and break the game) have not stopped Sawyer in the past. It's the reason you cannot withdraw from combat once you've engaged, for example. This is going to be fixed in some way, I'm sure, even if he has to redesign the entire game or remove the spell entirely. That you can be sure of.

 

So it's actually very notable that they haven't "fixed" this "issue" yet.

 

Not that I care, because I think your reasoning is sound. But this is most definitely not a view shared by Sawyer. The most likely reason it hasn't been fixed is because he hasn't noticed it yet, himself, because like most thinking individuals, he's probably not even thought of doing it.

I'm so f***ing tired of all this passive-aggressive Sawyer hate...

 

The reason you see a lot of passive-aggressive hate is because active-aggressive hate is a bannable offense. :lol:

 

That being said, I think "hate" is an exceedingly harsh word in this case. My intent was not to hate on Sawyer (partly because I don't actually hate him) but to underline that the belief that they'd let cheese exploits slide because they are TOO cheesy or so obviously cheesy, or very, very clear exploits, is simply wrong.

 

It is not hate; yes, I think that Sawyer is overly fond of restricting playstyles in the interest of "muh balance", and overly zealous when it comes to hunting down would-be exploits, whether those things can be considered real issues or not (in some cases, there are examples of behaviour that aren't even exploits, but degenerative behaviour that the developers have dealt with extremely admirably, such as the rest-spam), but that's ultimately completely beside the point.

 

The point being that there's a history of fixing exploits that aren't even really that exploitative. There's absolutely nothing suggesting that they wouldn't fix this one based on the premise presented. If it takes time to fix it, it is more likely because they aren't sure how to, without completely changing the spell.

 

That isn't me hating on Sawyer or the developers. That's me defending them and the fact that they haven't fixed it yet, based on earlier experience.

 

I am different.

 

I love the notification and patch status updates.

 

I dislike it very much that there are 12 pages of posts in reply to it already ... full of complaints and doubts and attempts at trying to influence the developers in their decision of what to fix ... although the patch has not been released yet.

 

shrugnz9.gif

 

What do you hope to achieve with that? Shouldn't there be a separate topic for every concern instead of collecting everything in here?

The thing people are trying to achieve is highlighting issues to the developers and examine the effects of their decisions, either to reconsider the changes, or consider other changes to go in tandem with them. That's nothing short of completely reasonable. If they didn't want any feedback at all, they wouldn't even have a forum.

 

We're here to talk about things and do a back-and-forth on issues, or possible issues. It's bascially our most fundamental function.


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