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Jazou

Obsidian, why isn't there any hotfix yet?

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Dear Obsidian,

 

first at all I want to clarify that I respect your hard work and you guys did really create a great game.

This thread is not determined to be a troll or whining thread - instead I want to ask a genuine question:

 

Why isn't there any hotfix yet?

 

I did already ask this question inside the stat stacking bug thread but as I think that my posts probably

weren't read by devs, I wanted to separate this question in an own thread. 

 

Please Obsidian, don't do the mistake to wait for delivering one big update that fixed as many bugs as

possible. Instead please deliver a hotfix as soon as possible so that at least some bugs (or even only one)

get fixed in short time. We don't demand an all-in-one fix for "everything" - just sharing what is already done

would be amazing. Every day there are more players getting into troubles and I'm sure some of the reasons

are already eliminiated and are just waiting for other fixes to provide all of them together within the announced

patch. I have the feeling that the patch got already a bit delayed because you want to fix as many bugs as

possible within this week. But in some situations it's better to satisfy the crowd step by step instead of waiting

to make everyone happy at once. 

 

 

Please note: This is not a rhetorical question - I really would appreciate an honest answer. What are the reasons

to put many fixes within one update instead of providing small hotfixes to the community when there are that kind

of critical/game breaking bugs? Or didn't you fix at least one of them yet? (I wouldn't blame you for that either!)

I just would love to hear an official statement - please give us more info about the actual state.

 

 

Best,

A fan of your work

Edited by Jazou
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I've been reading some other threads and they're definitely getting me down, but I hope our commitment to keep releasing patches, responding to those of you via support, and regularly fixing as much stuff as we can shows for something in the long run.

Darren, don't let them get you down.

 

Yes some of us are quite vocal and they have the right to be (they should try to be a little cooler about things though).

But I feel that there are a lot of us that understand how things work and are willing to wait for good solid updates.

 

And by the way, the list of fixes for 1.03... damn! It looks delicious  :w00t:

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Appreciate Your heads-up Darren. Take your time and squah those bugs for good :dancing:

I can wait a day or two or even a week if it brings stable improvements. Nothing's worse than patching a rushed patch :D

BTW thanks alot for continuing Baldurian tradition!

That brings back alot of memories...

 

~~Sarevok lives!~~

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pretty legit question on the hotfix thing. In my mind the game is unplayable in its current state and I have shelved it until they fix the two big bugs.  But the patch is supposed to hit tomorrow so heres hoping...

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We really are working hard. I've been reading some other threads and they're definitely getting me down, but I hope our commitment to keep releasing patches, responding to those of you via support, and regularly fixing as much stuff as we can shows for something in the long run.

 

I know this is going to sound like I'm whining, but RPG's are really some of the most complex pieces of software to write because of how many different ways people can do things, and we wanted this game to offer a huge amount of options. We only have so much money to spend on our resources, be it QA or whatnot, and we've spent a lot of our own money too trying to make it as fun and robust as we can. One of the unfortunate things in our industry is having to set a release date so far in advance to make sure everything comes together in the retail markets, etc.

 

These sound like excuses which I understand if they're interpreted that way, but we really really do care about this game and wanting it to be as good for everyone as possible, and hopefully we'll prove that in the coming weeks as we continue to fix and improve things.

 

Thanks for listening!

 

Darren

You guys are doing an excellent job. Please don't listen to a minority on your forums. All games have bugs. The original IE games had lots of bugs and they took far longer to fix; I remember because I bought them at launch. Some of those bugs never got fixed and we had to wait for fans to do it. I remember Fallout 2 didn't even run for me the day I bought it; I had to go online and download a patch, and that was no minor thing in those days.

 

Compared to the overwhelming majority of devs, you have handled the (relatively few) issues that have arisen speedily and with grace. A week's turnaround for several insidious bugs that are fixed retroactively is impressive, and I for one appreciate all the hard work.

Edited by Shake Appeal
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Great news Darren and thank you for the heads up. The game is excellent and I know it just keeps on getting better and better because of the dedicated team behind it. Respect!

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"Maybe your grandiose vocabulary is a pathetic compensation for an insufficiency in the nether regions of your anatomy."

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To Darren and the devs—I can't thank you enough for your dedication and support. Please don't let the nay-sayers bring you down. You have many loyal fans who appreciate your efforts and are well aware of how hard you are at work to bring us the best PoE experience possible.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

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My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Hi everyone, please check out the patch notes for the upcoming 1.03 release here:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/blog/7/entry-179-patch-notes-103/

 

We're working *very* hard to get this out as soon as possible. We apologize for the relative silence - we're game developers and most of us are working nose to keyboard on getting as much fixed as we can.

 

We definitely understand everyone's frustrations and we appreciate your patience. As Roby said, the patch is in test at the moment, and once it's gotten a sufficient amount of testing, we'll release it as soon as we can.

 

Thank you!

Darren

 

Lot of nice fixes in there.  I really hope this gets out of testing and onto Steam ASAP.

 

/pouring some on the curb for Slicken, Mind Blades and Ila.

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the problem with hotfixes, they can go either way, a game this complex with a lot of choice and options, might not work too well with a hotfix, especially if some bugs are linked, or sharing the same code, you might end up breaking more then you fix. granted there are a few major bugs, and one been the pet vanishing, as it meant you couldn't leave the map. in truth, a hotfix while might sound good on paper, but if you do another patch, it could end up breaking the hotfix, or you have to recode it when the next patch is getting written.

 

to me, for a game like this, it's far better releasing a large patch that fixes a lot of bugs, then you know that the patch is sound (or should be) and it hopefully won't break something else. but still, there is always that chance. hotfixes are good for stuff like FPS, simple games, but for complex games, big patches are better.

 

overall, a great list of fixes, going to reroll so I can enjoy the game.

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We really are working hard. I've been reading some other threads and they're definitely getting me down, but I hope our commitment to keep releasing patches, responding to those of you via support, and regularly fixing as much stuff as we can shows for something in the long run.

 

I know this is going to sound like I'm whining, but RPG's are really some of the most complex pieces of software to write because of how many different ways people can do things, and we wanted this game to offer a huge amount of options. We only have so much money to spend on our resources, be it QA or whatnot, and we've spent a lot of our own money too trying to make it as fun and robust as we can. One of the unfortunate things in our industry is having to set a release date so far in advance to make sure everything comes together in the retail markets, etc.

 

These sound like excuses which I understand if they're interpreted that way, but we really really do care about this game and wanting it to be as good for everyone as possible, and hopefully we'll prove that in the coming weeks as we continue to fix and improve things.

 

Thanks for listening!

 

Darren

 

No worries. 

 

The only reason people are so upset is because you succeeded in making an amazing game. It's  so great that it almost hurts to have to wait to continue playing!

 

 

I think this sums it up the best for me. It's a terrific game that I want to keep playing, so I'm anxious for you guys to get the patch out so I can play again. Of course, I'm not ranting like an angry old man like that one post I read a few posts earlier. I'm a game dev too. I'm sure lots of effort went into making this the best you guys could. I'm sure it will be awesome once these issues shake out.  I agree people shouldn't be overworked just to get a patch out for a game since it just leads to more broken things.

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Hi everyone, please check out the patch notes for the upcoming 1.03 release here:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/blog/7/entry-179-patch-notes-103/

 

We're working *very* hard to get this out as soon as possible. We apologize for the relative silence - we're game developers and most of us are working nose to keyboard on getting as much fixed as we can.

 

We definitely understand everyone's frustrations and we appreciate your patience. As Roby said, the patch is in test at the moment, and once it's gotten a sufficient amount of testing, we'll release it as soon as we can.

 

Thank you!

Darren

 

Lot of nice fixes in there.  I really hope this gets out of testing and onto Steam ASAP.

 

/pouring some on the curb for Slicken, Mind Blades and Ila.

 

 

Haha, as a Cipher I kinda figured we'd get a nerf.  But with that long list of fixes I'll take it happily. :grin:

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we really really do care about this game and wanting it to be as good for everyone as possible, and hopefully we'll prove that in the coming weeks as we continue to fix and improve things.

And indeed the game is great. Thank you.

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I've come to burn your kingdom down

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...

 

If you're going to fix a specific bug, the first step is to identify those use-cases where the bug occurs.

Based on the found use-cases you build proper test-cases which will serve as an indicator for the targeted bug.

....

 

PS: I'm a developer by myself and this is how we handle it in our company. But it's just a small one for individual industry software, so I don't

want to pit myself against game-developers. It's just why I thought that there indeed could be already a small hotfix for at least one serious bug.

 

 Game development is more like real time systems development with a very large state to keep track of. This isn't a solved problem in computer science. That is, it isn't isomorphic to compilers, databases, operating systems or networks (or even real time systems as it is currently). If it were the same as one of those problems, game developers would buy the equivalent of, say, a relational database that solves all of their hard problems, write the game on top of it and there wouldn't be any strange bugs. Some day, somebody will solve the problem and game engines will exist that make development much easier. Until then, difficult bugs will be a fact of life and, if they infuriate you, you will need to wait until a month or two after release to buy a game.

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We really are working hard. I've been reading some other threads and they're definitely getting me down, but I hope our commitment to keep releasing patches, responding to those of you via support, and regularly fixing as much stuff as we can shows for something in the long run.

 

 

Let me join the others in saying that you shouldn't let them get you guys down! I'm sure that many of us highly appreciate the fact that you are working very hard on this, and understand that this is an extremely complex piece of software where you can't just randomly rush out fixes before testing them thoroughly. But those who shout the loudest are those that you'll hear - it's just "sampling bias"  :yes: Very impressive patch notes, by the way!

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What people also should not forget is that every bugfix can break something else and they need to be careful before releasing a patch that breaks something else. Never forget:

 

99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs in the code. Take one down, patch it around, 117 little bugs in the code!

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the question whether steam and GoG savegames are compatible hasn't been answered so far, does someone know?

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Thanks for the list!

 

I know that the notes are tentative, but is the save game fix gonna be in there (the issue with inactive traps bloating the filesize/load time)?

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Hm, nice list of patch notes but apparently some fixes for the currently most pressing issues are missing...  :getlost:

 

-> no fix for savegame issues (probably caused at least in parts by frost traps from a chanter song)

-> no fix for the quest bug of "The Parable of Wael" and "The Theorems of Pandgram"

 

I mean, balancing stuff and new features are nice, but bugfixing should be the top priority right now imo.

Edited by LordCrash

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- Save games should work fine across both Steam and GoG versions.

- The save game fix for inactive traps increasing save game sizes is in the patch.

- The stats bug for loading a game in the area where you collect a companion is fixed in the patch as well.

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Twitter: @robyatadero

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Hello.Only here tonight to lend my hug and support to Darren and all the dev  team.I wish to repeat only one thing as a long term Obsidian fan.I love you people very much and my mind and heart is constantly on you and your amazing effort to keep a unique personality and level in your games each time.

 

Please take your time to QA the path any all other troubleshooting routes accordingly, and please do come back here and talk to us as often as possible.

 

Thank you.

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To Darren and the devs—I can't thank you enough for your dedication and support. Please don't let the nay-sayers bring you down. You have many loyal fans who appreciate your efforts and are well aware of how hard you are at work to bring us the best PoE experience possible.

 

Agreed. You have TONS of people who don't come here in the same fashion as some.  We know you are doing the best to fix issues and it will work out in the end.

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We really are working hard. I've been reading some other threads and they're definitely getting me down, but I hope our commitment to keep releasing patches, responding to those of you via support, and regularly fixing as much stuff as we can shows for something in the long run.

 

I know this is going to sound like I'm whining, but RPG's are really some of the most complex pieces of software to write because of how many different ways people can do things, and we wanted this game to offer a huge amount of options. We only have so much money to spend on our resources, be it QA or whatnot, and we've spent a lot of our own money too trying to make it as fun and robust as we can. One of the unfortunate things in our industry is having to set a release date so far in advance to make sure everything comes together in the retail markets, etc.

 

These sound like excuses which I understand if they're interpreted that way, but we really really do care about this game and wanting it to be as good for everyone as possible, and hopefully we'll prove that in the coming weeks as we continue to fix and improve things.

 

Thanks for listening!

 

Darren

Darren, don't let them get you down. You'se have created a really fun game and as you say RPGs are notoriously complicated which makes it hard to test all the possible combinations each and every single time. Every company releasing an RPg tends to release a lot of patches be it yourselves, Bioware of old, Larian and so on.

 

Take your time and don't burn yourselves out.

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