Ultimate DPS class? Rogue/Cipher/Barabarian?

[DIXI]

Hey

 

So let's think about what would be the best DPS class in this game in your opinions, PotD wise.

 

I've been playing with a paladin as a tank and a rogue as a DPS dealer. And da**, I must say  when properly positioned, the rogue can do insane amount of damage. But he is so squishy though. One mistake and he's gone.

 

I tried Cipher DPS wise. It's really good too. If the cipher pulls off his spells, he can do insane amount of AoE damage. But is it stronger than the rogue? I haven't played that much with ciphers, so i couldn't say.

 

What's your opinions on the best DPS class guys?

[Nightosan]

Rouge with Arbalest

[Awsumpossum]

Hey

 

So let's think about what would be the best DPS class in this game in your opinions, PotD wise.

 

I've been playing with a paladin as a tank and a rogue as a DPS dealer. And da**, I must say  when properly positioned, the rogue can do insane amount of damage. But he is so squishy though. One mistake and he's gone.

 

I tried Cipher DPS wise. It's really good too. If the cipher pulls off his spells, he can do insane amount of AoE damage. But is it stronger than the rogue? I haven't played that much with ciphers, so i couldn't say.

 

What's your opinions on the best DPS class guys?

 My rogue is obliterating everything.  Dual Wield, Very fast attack speed, 30% crit chance, another 20% on low endurance targets, high DR via Stilettos.  One of my stilettos has "Jolting Touch" which absolutely CREAMS everything.  Today it proc'd for 100 damage (plus 2 additional targets for 70ish), while I was critting 50+ with the basic attack for instantaneous 150+ dmg.  I'm only level 7...in act 2.  Playing on hard difficulty, I don't even really pause combat except for once to set my characters up, playing on fast speed, I just control the rogue while my 2 tanks soak everything and I dance around and flank everything.  It's actually stupid how easy it is right now.

[Cronstintein]

I prefer the cypher for the dps + CC but if you're STRICTLY measuring by dps the ranged rogue is pretty damn good.  Rogue vs Barbarian is hard to call but rogue wins vs single-target and barbarian is better vs groups of light armor.

[mrmonocle]

my endgame stats:

 

barbarian 2 weapon style 52k

ranged rogue 33k

chipher 98k

[Wolken3156]

Ciphers are undoubtedly the best DPS. They're ranged, they can deal colossal AoE damage and they even have some crowd controlling utility on top of that!

 

Melee Rogue is probably the highest raw single target DPS in the game, but as mentioned, in POTD one wrong move will murder them. They're damn fine in ranged though at least, being the best Arbalist users. With the right setup, every shot they fire will be a crit, its almost terrifying. Reach weapons are another option, Pikes IIRC, share the same Weapon Focus Talent as Arbalists, so you can even run both melee and ranged.

 

Barbarians have AoE damage which gives them a slight edge over melee rogues, but they do come with similar draw backs. One wrong move will probably kill your Barbarian. On off-side, if he does live and Blooded activates, his damage will be incredible.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Wolken3156

[DIXI]

So Ciphers do seem very legit in terms of damage.

 

What are your weapons of choice to have high DPS on your Ciphers? I know guns seems to be great (arquebus/blunderbuss), but aren't they super slow considering the reload time?

[tnc]

I dont think ciphers damage can be compared to a barb or rogue. Melee attacks (or maybe some ranged, when built right) deal the most damage in this game simply because there are more ways to buff them through abilities spells and gear. You can totally break the game with melee characters. I think dps wise the best are in order: barbarian, rogue, monk and then some casters. It all comes down to who attacks faster and more accurate and hits harder at the same time, with DR bypass. I don't think it's a coincidence that top dps are not included in the companions, it might be a design choice.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tnc

[Dongom]

Cipher.  

[Wolken3156]

So Ciphers do seem very legit in terms of damage.

 

What are your weapons of choice to have high DPS on your Ciphers? I know guns seems to be great (arquebus/blunderbuss), but aren't they super slow considering the reload time?

Blunderbuss is generally the weapon of choice since each hit it deals with restore your Focus, usually more than the amount of Focus you spend to cast. There's a few ways to get around the reloading time, the Gunner talent will cut down the reload time by 20%. There is also a Chant that can lower reloading time as well (Its name escapes me). Finally, you can equip multiple guns and switch around them, reloading them after each battle. You'll probably want the Quick Switch Talent for it.

[Kelstrom]

With my third barbarian run i went with 1 single handed spear... and dayum the critical carnages are so real... the dps is insane.

[Fimconte]

In PotD, with regards to survivability, ranged cipher.  
Barbarian may be viable, if survivability is managed with micro/build.

[MadDemiurg]

Cipher deals almost as much damage as rogue with sneak attack (1.4 vs 1.5), but doesn't have any prerequisites for it, so it is much more consistent. Plus he has great aoe which rogue can't really compete with. All in all rogue doesn't have much on cipher imo. Melee vs range is questionable in terms of top dps, but cipher can do both pretty well. Barb's single target is lower than rogue/cipher and carnage doesn't really hold a candle to aoe spells. So cipher is a clear winner imo.

 

But you're kinda forgetting about Druid. While he may not have the "most damage done" stat in the party (unless you rest very often) in big fights that actually matter none of the three classes above can compete with a Druid. Wizard can deal lots of damage too, but overall is weaker than druid. So for big fights Druid > Wizard > Cipher > Rogue = Barb i would say.

[tnc]

Cipher deals almost as much damage as rogue with sneak attack (1.4 vs 1.5), but doesn't have any prerequisites for it, so it is much more consistent. Plus he has great aoe which rogue can't really compete with. All in all rogue doesn't have much on cipher imo. Melee vs range is questionable in terms of top dps, but cipher can do both pretty well. Barb's single target is lower than rogue/cipher and carnage doesn't really hold a candle to aoe spells. So cipher is a clear winner imo.

 

But you're kinda forgetting about Druid. While he may not have the "most damage done" stat in the party (unless you rest very often) in big fights that actually matter none of the three classes above can compete with a Druid. Wizard can deal lots of damage too, but overall is weaker than druid. So for big fights Druid > Wizard > Cipher > Rogue = Barb i would say.

You're right my druid really shines in hardest fights. I can just unequip my armor and spam aoe like blizzard and get huge advantage right at start. Dont trust the numbers on character sheet when it comes to dps it will say cipher is best coz blunderbuss bypass dr for large dmg but some fights cipher dps just cant be as good as other classes depends on the situation. Btw i'm starting to feel this game is actually well balanced coz so many people claim their class is best in their certain roles. Well done obsidian.

[MadDemiurg]

 

Cipher deals almost as much damage as rogue with sneak attack (1.4 vs 1.5), but doesn't have any prerequisites for it, so it is much more consistent. Plus he has great aoe which rogue can't really compete with. All in all rogue doesn't have much on cipher imo. Melee vs range is questionable in terms of top dps, but cipher can do both pretty well. Barb's single target is lower than rogue/cipher and carnage doesn't really hold a candle to aoe spells. So cipher is a clear winner imo.

 

But you're kinda forgetting about Druid. While he may not have the "most damage done" stat in the party (unless you rest very often) in big fights that actually matter none of the three classes above can compete with a Druid. Wizard can deal lots of damage too, but overall is weaker than druid. So for big fights Druid > Wizard > Cipher > Rogue = Barb i would say.

You're right my druid really shines in hardest fights. I can just unequip my armor and spam aoe like blizzard and get huge advantage right at start. Dont trust the numbers on character sheet when it comes to dps it will say cipher is best coz blunderbuss bypass dr for large dmg but some fights cipher dps just cant be as good as other classes depends on the situation. Btw i'm starting to feel this game is actually well balanced coz so many people claim their class is best in their certain roles. Well done obsidian.

 

Well, in case of cipher it's just math. He can reliably spam ~30 average damage aoe at low levels + has single target damage that is almost as good as rogue's sneak attack, without the need to flank or cc the enemy (although he has great abilities to do both of these things). In very specific situations where you are fighting a single strong enemy you can flank all the time, yes, rogue will do a bit more damage (although with high level cipher spells like disintegrate not so sure + cipher has recall agony which buffs your whole party damage by 30% against 1 target). On average though, cipher is better damage dealer than rogue. I haven't even been using blunderbuss until the mid game (mostly some combination of hunting bow, arbalest and quarterstaff), and cipher was still #1 in damage done and ahead of my rogue, even though he burned a lot of focus on CC which was helping rogue's sneak attacks.

[Ceranai]

I wanna throw my monk into the mix, heavy armor but using torments reach each fist hits for 20 and 15 respectively which i would argue is easily on par with a barbarian, if he is getting hit relatively hard he can cast torments reach every turn of combat and given his tankyness he can also survive this damage well. If i made him less tanky and put a few more points in intel torments would easily hit more enemies behind the target but as is it rarely hits anyone aside from the main target unless its lined up perfectly. However I needed the tankyness coz he is soloing PoTD

[DIXI]

Interesting. Talking of solo PotD, would you guys think it is possible to solo PotD with Cipher?

 

I know it's probably possible with Rogue since they have those evasion skills (escape and invisbility), and especially since everyone is telling how strong rogues are with range weapons.

 

But Ciphers? Having no survivability like monks or barbarians, would this work?

[Sleazebag]

When talking about cipher vs. rogue people seem to forget that rogue has per encounter abilities, and other passives, and not JUST sneak attack. While dual wielding that 1.25x full attack adds a lot of burst. Then there's dirty fighting combined with vicious fighting, deep wounds, deathblows... The class is not just sneak attack and nothing else. The class easily outdamages a cipher on singular targets, and triggering sneak attack is not as hard as people seem to think - flanked is an extremely easy status to cause. 

 

Ciphers beat rogues in multiple target damage, crowd control and debuffing. That's it - the utterly huge crit chance a rogue can attain combined with their passive damage bonuses means that a cipher can't really compete with simply the 1.4x passive boost, at least on weapon damage. I heard disintegrate is overpowered as hell at the moment though and might actually cause ciphers to outdamage a rogue single-target wise, but I haven't got that yet myself.

[MadDemiurg]

Tbh I think both rogue and cipher are bad for PotD solo. They have a lot of abilities that kinda need a party and I don't think rogue's invis is enough to get by in terms of survivability. You can make a cipher tank since they have decent deflection, but you'll struggle with dps and building up focus. Best bet for cipher solo is abusing confuse/charm/puppet (allies often kill confused mobs which is great) probably.

 

When talking about cipher vs. rogue people seem to forget that rogue has per encounter abilities, and other passives, and not JUST sneak attack. While dual wielding that 1.25x full attack adds a lot of burst. Then there's dirty fighting combined with vicious fighting, deep wounds, deathblows... The class is not just sneak attack and nothing else. The class easily outdamages a cipher on singular targets, and triggering sneak attack is not as hard as people seem to think - flanked is an extremely easy status to cause. 

 

Ciphers beat rogues in multiple target damage, crowd control and debuffing. That's it - the utterly huge crit chance a rogue can attain combined with their passive damage bonuses means that a cipher can't really compete with simply the 1.4x passive boost, at least on weapon damage. I heard disintegrate is overpowered as hell at the moment though and might actually cause ciphers to outdamage a rogue single-target wise, but I haven't got that yet myself.

 

Rogue's per encounter abilites are not that great tbh + cipher's cc can be seen as a huge damage buff, since paralysed = -40 deflection alone (which also contributes to crit chance), plus cipher can target defences other than deflection with his spells. All in all, I don't see a huge difference in single target damage between my rogue and my cipher (both are min maxed). Deathblows are probably an exception, but they usually need a caster to setup. Yes, rogue single target damage is a bit better, but it doesn't make up for what cipher can do with aoe and debuffs.

Edited April 2, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Ceranai]

Interesting. Talking of solo PotD, would you guys think it is possible to solo PotD with Cipher?

 

I know it's probably possible with Rogue since they have those evasion skills (escape and invisbility), and especially since everyone is telling how strong rogues are with range weapons.

 

But Ciphers? Having no survivability like monks or barbarians, would this work?

No, even with stealth there are just some enounters you cant avoid and the problem with solo is that you only have to run out of endurance, not ho and you are dead. Problem is there are just some mobs who can one/two shot ciphers and rogues, that you can't avoid, and who have high enough health that you wont be able to kill them before they hit you at least once. I think the key to a solo PoTD run is survivability and a lot of min maxing, even then a lot of fights are really close calls. in some of the fights you cant avoid even my moonlike tanky as hell monk gets hit for most of his HP and it isnt really possible to avoid getting hit at least once. Maybe if you always open with mind control and if it doesnt work save scum it would be possible but if it doesnt work the problem is that you will get one/two shotted. I mean my monk does something like 35 damage per turn of combat and it takes him at least two rounds to take down even the weaker mobs, and something like 4 rounds of combat to take down the stronger ones, can you really avoid being hit for two rounds of combat, let alone in fights where there are many enemies

[daammyy]

Anyone knows any good builds for a ranged cipher from a reliable source? 

[MadDemiurg]

Well, I'm probably not a reliable source, but here's what I'm running with:

 

Race: wood elf (+5 acc ftw)

 

Stats: M 18 D 19 C 3 P 4 I 19 R 15

 

Talents: Draining whip, Biting whip (2 no brainers), Penetrating Shot, Gunner, Marksman, WF (for firearms cipher)

 

Powers are trickier. Mine (not necessarily optimal) are

 

L1: Soul shock, tenuous grasp, eyestrike. Other possible choices - Mind wave, charm, antipathetic field (huge dmg potential, but very tricky positioning and can easily kill your own party in seconds). Yeah, all L1 powers are good in certain conditions, so tough choice.

L2: Mental binding, Mind Blades, Recall Agony (first 2 are a must, 3rd is debatable)

L3:. Puppet master, Soul Ignition (turned out kinda meh), Secret horrors

L4: Mind Lance, Pain block, Silent Scream (Body attuntment is an option too)

L5 and 6 are quite OP and there are fewer powers, so it's hard to go wrong

Edited April 2, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[metsu]

Having a tough time in the beginning right now with my cipher, but I'm also playing on hard. Maybe Eder just isn't being very tanky yet.

I'm gonna swap back and forth between this dude and a rogue to measure the difference.

[MadDemiurg]

If you go all out dps, you're gonna have problems early on without a proper tank with most classes. 

[syarulax]

I haven't got to try all class yet from my experience, Barbarian quite formidable, the Health/Endurance you got per level is quit high, and supposedly being design to tank damage rather than deflect them, armor with low DR is good on him. Simply the trade off for speed and more carnage, one thing that is quite formidable about Barbarian you get pick "Vengeful Defeat" later on which is you do full carnage in 2.0m once you reach 0 endurance, combine this with item that grant second chance get back up again, down to 0 endurance afterwards with VD second time, than raise him using Priest. Probably rogue has the highest damage with sneak attack but if you want rush into PotD where enemy count++, your best bet is Barbarian. So far i have great time playing my barb, more than half damage party damage comes from my barb and I don't mind he's low with endurance which pretty much intended to trigger his VD.