LordCrash Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) release was a lot cleaner than many other games i've played No. It's not. You don't even know which games HE's played... Think a bit before making stupid posts. Imho the ratio of bugs/complexity in Pillars is really low. There are many games with a lot less complex systems which had far more bugs at release. There simply is no complex RPG without some issues at release. That usually doesn't happen, not 15 years ago, not today, probably not tomorrow. You only have limited time and money to make such a game. You can't just spend weeks and months after the game is completely done searching for bugs. You can't run a business like that, I'm afraid. The most important thing is that Obsidian is really into fixing the issues now as fast as possible without creating new ones. Post-release support is the best indicator whether a developer/publisher really cares or not... Edited April 1, 2015 by LordCrash 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolofIsis Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) They do certainly happen. It's just so strange how nearly every single Obsidian release is packed full of bugs. Bad ones. But hey guys that's okay, it's not like they are EA or anything so let's not call them out on it. Let's not even get a little bit upset about it. Let's just defend them, and accuse people trying to report legitimate issues with THEIR game of "crying". Let's tell them to "get over it" and defend a company because "programming is hard" and "they worked hard". Edit: The ratio of bugs to complexity? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Talk about reaching. WHO CARES. The game is buggy. That's all that matters. So what your saying is that you feel, because the game is complex, we should give Obsidian the benefit of the doubt, and just sit back and wait and not level any criticism? Wow. Bye bye White Knighting, hello Obsidian Knighting. Edited April 1, 2015 by ToolofIsis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCrash Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 They do certainly happen. It's just so strange how nearly every single Obsidian release is packed full of bugs. Bad ones. But hey guys that's okay, it's not like they are EA or anything so let's not call them out on it. Let's not even get a little bit upset about it. Let's just defend them, and accuse people trying to report legitimate issues with THEIR game of "crying". Let's tell them to "get over it" and defend a company because "programming is hard" and "they worked hard". 1) Recent Obsidian games were rather bug-free (South Park, DS 3) 2) Comparing a situation with ones that lie 10 years back or so is rather pointless. 3) Obsidian is known for making rather complex RPGs. That alone increases the danger for bugs. 4) Other companies who released big and more or less complex RPGs are usually not better than Obsidian. There are for example far more bugs in the TES games made by Bethesda. And there are also a lot of bugs in Bioware's games... 5) Nobody defends bugs here. I just don't like unfair assessments that don't into account for example, general game development requirements, the time of making, the genre and complexity of the game, how the direct competitor do in comparion and so on. 6) There are no statistics available how many people were affected by several bugs. But I've read a lot of reviews and almost every one of them praised the game for being almost issue and bug free. So maybe we have to assume that only a minority is experiencing serious bugs. Again, that's not a justification for them. But imho it's also worth to mention that a lot of people are apparently able to play the game for dozens of hours without experiencing major issues. And that's a pretty good achievement if you ask me... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozzy Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 What are you even on about??Dungeon Seige was near bug free, South Park I had ZERO issues, no crashes, no game breaking bugs... In this game so far the only issue I have had is the pathfinding sometimes sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozzy Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) They do certainly happen. It's just so strange how nearly every single Obsidian release is packed full of bugs. Bad ones. But hey guys that's okay, it's not like they are EA or anything so let's not call them out on it. Let's not even get a little bit upset about it. Let's just defend them, and accuse people trying to report legitimate issues with THEIR game of "crying". Let's tell them to "get over it" and defend a company because "programming is hard" and "they worked hard". Edit: The ratio of bugs to complexity? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Talk about reaching. WHO CARES. The game is buggy. That's all that matters. So what your saying is that you feel, because the game is complex, we should give Obsidian the benefit of the doubt, and just sit back and wait and not level any criticism? Wow. Bye bye White Knighting, hello Obsidian Knighting. You are crazy man, did you even play the previous two Obsidian games? South Park and Dungeon Siege 3? I had zero bugs with both those games. Not every Obsidian game is buggy, seems like you havn't played all of the Obsidian games if you say they are all buggy, the last two been fantastic as far as being bug free. How about instead of being so rude to others you go play South Park and DS3 and you will realize that no all there games are not all buggy and that infact the two previous to this where nearly bug free and the two most optimized Obsidian games they have done. A few bugs in pillars and you are tossing them under the bus? give me a break. With trolls like you even when they do bug free games liek South Park and DS3 you STILL call them a dev that ALWAYS puts out buggy games, EVEN after they just put out two that are two very well optimized games. Edited April 1, 2015 by kozzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Striker Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 There are no game breaking bugs in PoE, at least in the way that I understand the term "game breaking" as in "I can't continue playing". There are serious balancing/gameplay bugs though, that's true. I however did not face any of them. This is just objectively WRONG. If someone had decided to do an "Ironman" playthrough, there are a multitude of bugs (mostly area transition and/or quest related) which stop ALL PROGRESS and require reverting to an earlier save. Ironman is part of the game and these are therefore game breaking. And that is if you have the strictest definition of game breaking. I personally consider any bug which stops you from playing the game in an enjoyable manner (the reason why you play in the first place is for enjoyment) as game breaking. Examples of these include the stat-stacking bug, save/load times increasing from 30 secs up to a minute or longer even, never-ending plague of insects even on rest etc (this is actually game breaking), and many MANY more. I have managed to revert to an earlier save losing about 5 hours of progress, but people playing iron man or not saving frequently have definitely had their game broken by bugs. TO ANYONE THAT SAYS THEY ARE NOT AFFECTED BY BUGS: I advise you to check your PC, and each of your companions' stats. If you have EVER loaded the game in an area where a companion was recruited (Gilded Vale, Magrans Fork, Caed Nua, etc etc) then your companions likely have higher stats than they should, as this bug affects everyone (take Eder to Gilded Vale and save/load while he has Defender on and you will see), even if its just 5 or 10 points of deflection or 1 or 2 INT. It's hard to notice unless it happens to an extreme, but you will still be affected by it. The OP didn't MENTION this. THANKS for bringing it UP. Maybe you should MENTION this to ONSIDIAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootDive Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 But still : some game breaking bugs here are pretty obvious and any careful game tester would have been able to check them : stats changing, loading time going up, items disappearing, black screens... Many of the bugs are only obvious when you actively look for them and if you have ever done testing for any software project, BELIEVE me, pain in the ass bugs are almost never obvious. They're only obvious when viewed in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiler Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 South Park I played at release, encountered 0 bugs all the way through. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukenin Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Software engineering, like proofreading (cf. strategy guide backer credits), is apparently a lost and/or dying art. Some of PoE's bugs should not have happened, period. Game mechanic/balance issues, story issues, bizarro tech configurations that just could not be anticipated/tested, Unity engine issues outside Obsidian's purview, sure. Those will happen and just may not be identifiable/discoverable without the broader test base of a release distribution. The double-click bug?* That should have never happened in the first place, much less made it into the released product. This was a (software) design/planning/architecture failure. Don't excuse it, don't defend it. Alas, it's just something we have to live with. I don't think Obsidian will scrap the whole thing and reimplement from scratch, after all. If you disagree with me, fine, you win. I'm resigned to a world that accepts "if we fix it, we have to test and make sure we didn't break anything else" as a thing that is said at all levels and scopes. *staggers off his soapbox and flees the thread* *just one example out of a number greater than one 3 --/\/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalloutBoy Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I'm no developer, I assume that bug checking and fixing is a tedious and hard challenge, but clearly, it would be a great improvement for your next titles to ensure better programming. I'm no rocket scientist, but clearly if they just point the nose of the ship towards Mars and hit the gas, they will eventually get there, right? Nope. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozzy Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 South Park I played at release, encountered 0 bugs all the way through. Cosign, I beat it twice and zero bugs, in fact it was one of last years least buggy games for me. These people like to harp on Obsidian for buggy games but when the drop two that are near bug free they ignore it and keep acting like Obsidian has only put out buggy games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabyk Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Can I ask, in what SPECIFIC scenario does the double-click bug take effect? I don't double-click often; if I recall I really only do it to equip something from the Stash immediately on my character (something along those lines). I have had no issue with it. I need to check my char's stats, because I don't believe I have the double-stat bug either. That, or I'm just a terrible player since I am not steamrolling everything as I would if I had double stats. I'm not going to say that people are "crying" about bugs because I understand what they're going through, and I would be the first person exasperated about glitches if I had them, but until I came on the forum looking for tactics advice, I was legitimately unaware that this game was buggy. A few typos maybe, but otherwise a clean experience. Of course, now I've just jinxed myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsumetai Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I'm no developer, I assume that bug checking and fixing is a tedious and hard challenge, but clearly, it would be a great improvement for your next titles to ensure better programming. I'm no rocket scientist, but clearly if they just point the nose of the ship towards Mars and hit the gas, they will eventually get there, right? Nope. What are you talking about? Clearly they just need to ensure better science. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexmath Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 What are you talking about? Clearly they just need to ensure better science. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCrash Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The double-click bug?* That should have never happened in the first place, much less made it into the released product. This was a (software) design/planning/architecture failure. Don't excuse it, don't defend it. Nobody does so. But your assessment is also only speculative. You have actually no idea what caused this bug (and others) in the first place. There are probably reasons why this bug made it to the final version, may it be human failure, time constraints or just a weird coincidence or whatever else. It doesn't matter of course to those who are affected by it. But please stop seperating people into "defenders" and "serious people" just because people talk about things from maybe a slightly or better bigger different perspective. That doesn't make your own points looking more valid. Also this whole thread is about pigeonholing for no obvious reason. It's like some people think Obsidian wants to have bugs or issues in their games. They don't. But they DO want to make complex games and with complex games (and a limited budget) there rises the danger of having bugs and issues. Maybe Obsidian should stop making complex and big CRPG and make simplistic action games instead, just to stop "their legacy of buggy game releases" like the OP wants to tells us. Yeah, I think we'd all be happy about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadász Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Obsidian is a naturally occurring volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock. It is produced when felsic lava extruded from a volcano cools rapidly with minimum crystal growth. Obsidian is commonly found within the margins of rhyolitic lava flows known as obsidian flows, where the chemical composition (high silica content) induces a high viscosity and polymerization degree of the lava. The inhibition of atomic diffusion through this highly viscous and polymerized lava explains the lack of crystal growth. Obsidian is hard and brittle; it therefore fractures with very sharp edges, which were used in the past in cutting and piercing tools, and has been used experimentally as surgical scalpel blades. Underrated post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelor Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Just a day ago I was utterly convinced that the game was enjoyable after all, and perhaps for many it is so. But now, after having experienced some bugs and read a lot of bug threads here, I see the game in a different perspective, in a way that keeps me from play it passionately. Surely a perfectionist obsession could be misleading, yet I feel the right to demand perfection from this game, a crpg Pillar long awaited! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morhilane Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Just a day ago I was utterly convinced that the game was enjoyable after all, and perhaps for many it is so. But now, after having experienced some bugs and read a lot of bug threads here, I see the game in a different perspective, in a way that keeps me from play it passionately. Surely a perfectionist obsession could be misleading, yet I feel the right to demand perfection from this game, a crpg Pillar long awaited! You stopped playing the game because of possible bugs you haven't experienced at all? Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botono Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 South park the stick of truth was bug free... What? http://segmentnext.com/2014/03/05/south-park-the-stick-of-truth-errors-crashes-audio-voice-and-graphics-fixes/ http://steamcommunity.com/app/213670/discussions/0/558749191457700302/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelor Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) You stopped playing the game because of possible bugs you haven't experienced at all? Nope, I stopped playing mostly because those I encountered have been enough to force me to stop play till next patch. Edited April 1, 2015 by Anelor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botono Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 South Park I played at release, encountered 0 bugs all the way through. Cosign, I beat it twice and zero bugs, in fact it was one of last years least buggy games for me. These people like to harp on Obsidian for buggy games but when the drop two that are near bug free they ignore it and keep acting like Obsidian has only put out buggy games. I'm currently playing PoE bug free, so I guess the game is fine, right? Check out the bug forums for DS3 and decide how "clean" it was: http://forums.obsidian.net/forum/83-dungeon-siege-iii-technical-support-spoiler-warning/ As usual, people seem to have short memories for buggy games, or think that if they personally don't hit the bug then everything is fine. All software has bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luzarius Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) This game rocks. Seriously. But despite being free from the oppression of the "Evil Publishers and their Dreadful Deadlines", this game has some unacceptable game breaking bugs. I know that they will be fixed and that in a few weeks, the game will probably be ok. And compared to many broken AAA titles (hello Rome 2 Total war my good friend) this game is still in a better shape, quite playable (and again, awesome). But still : some game breaking bugs here are pretty obvious and any careful game tester would have been able to check them : stats changing, loading time going up, items disappearing, black screens... It's such a pity that this game will have lesser grades in the press because of this carelessness. And its such a pity that everyone has to say "well it's obsidian, what did you expect". I'm no developer, I assume that bug checking and fixing is a tedious and hard challenge, but clearly, it would be a great improvement for your next titles to ensure better programming. Sorry If I made english mistakes, not fluent. It was kickstarter funded which means they didn't have enough money for quality control team or any kind of testing. It's not that big of a deal actually, because the game just entered beta a few days ago. Edited April 1, 2015 by luzarius Having trouble with the games combat on POTD, Trial of Iron? - Hurtin bomb droppin MONK - [MONK BUILD] - [CLICK HERE] - Think Rangers suck? You're wrong - [RANGER BUILD] + Tactics/Strategies - [CLICK HERE] - Fighter Heavy Tank - [FIGHTER BUILD] + Tactics/Strategies - [CLICK HERE] Despite what I may post, I'm a huge fan of Pillars of Eternity, it's one of my favorite RPG's. Anita Sarkeesian keeps Bioware's balls in a jar on her shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratoa Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Not even Bioware have a clean release with their multimillion budget games and man power Just look at their lastest release 6 patches already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barakav Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 South park the stick of truth was bug free... What? http://segmentnext.com/2014/03/05/south-park-the-stick-of-truth-errors-crashes-audio-voice-and-graphics-fixes/ http://steamcommunity.com/app/213670/discussions/0/558749191457700302/ There are always some individuals that experience bugs in every game in existence. I haven't experience a single one and I finished the game twice. An ex-biophysicist but currently Studying Schwarzschild singularities' black holes' Hawking radiation using LAZORS and hypersonic sound wave models. My main objective is to use my results to take over the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takamorisan Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I must be playing a different game, 67 hours in game and the only bug that annoyed me was the perma insect swarm debuff that is fixed after you get maimed status. Also every game released need a patch, such is the nature of it. Every game released needed a patch ? You born in 2005 ? No, but the way you have to resort with insults I'd guess you are actually born in 2005. Like someone said, even Super Mario had bugs. So yeah there is no way to achieve perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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