Stronghold Immersion

[Grand_Commander13]

if they tweak the system, and lessen the amount of raids, and make adventures more meaningful, and add more stuff to it, I could see it working, but I do think the stronghold over endless paths was a mistake, that should have been a separate dungeon and not linked to the stronghold in any way, as the attacks from stuff under it, seems forced, when they attack, so it forces to to clear the dungeon, rather then a place you want to go and find yourself. that would have made the attacks a lot less, and you only have to deal with bandits, and the security level of the stronghold should have brought the attacks down.

 

instead, the higher the security the prestige the more attacks, which is annoying, so I don't see how anyone can really safely advance the story when these events keep cropping up, I don't have any hirelings, and seems to be bugs with them. the idea is great in theory, but something needs to be done to tweak this and make it less forced and less dependent on player intervention when you trying to play the rest of the game.

 

Really? Attacks increase as your stats go up? I never got raided at all, and I went for an early barracks which allowed me to get a quick +16 to my combined prestige/security by getting eight hirelings as soon as it finished. Of course I also cleared out... Er... Everything but the very end of the Endless Paths.

[matthewfarmery]

that is what it seems to me, I got a fairly decent security level, and I had a few attacks from stuff below and from bandits, so either the security level is bugged, or security level doesn't do anything? I really dislike the attacks from the endless paths, I have a few of those, skeletons and something else so far, so I would say I have at least 4 bandit raids and 4 attacks from below, (give or take) and my security is about 23. I dont have any hirelings (as there seems to be a few bugs with them) and any companions that you leave at the stronghold doesn't do anything for security either?

 

so I am under the impression that I'm getting more bad events then good events even though I got a fairly decent security level. not sure if anyone else has that feeling too?

[Hybridsalmon]

that is what it seems to me, I got a fairly decent security level, and I had a few attacks from stuff below and from bandits, so either the security level is bugged, or security level doesn't do anything? I really dislike the attacks from the endless paths, I have a few of those, skeletons and something else so far, so I would say I have at least 4 bandit raids and 4 attacks from below, (give or take) and my security is about 23. I dont have any hirelings (as there seems to be a few bugs with them) and any companions that you leave at the stronghold doesn't do anything for security either?

 

so I am under the impression that I'm getting more bad events then good events even though I got a fairly decent security level. not sure if anyone else has that feeling too?

 How far are you in the endless paths? Because I can't ever recall an attack coming from the endless paths.

[matthewfarmery]

I was under the impression that you get attacked from the endless paths until you clear the floor in question? I've not done the endless paths dungeon at all, but I have encountered stuff like skeletons which must have come from endless paths. so Im under the impression you need to clear each level to stop the attacks from each floor.

 

that is the issue. would have been nice if the attacks only started once you start doing the endless paths, or really make it optional.

[tls5669]

Thats what I said! (lol, apparently no one noticed when I made a topic about this)

 

I 100% agree with you. I was really looking forward to the stronghold but it's totally immersion breaking.

 

The psychic statue was no doubt made for the players convenience, but getting "updates" in the field makes it feel like a free-to-play iphone app. Does no one else see their character whipping out a cellphone when they get these updates?!

 

The stronghold needs more PEOPLE. Not statues. I want a butler type dude and maybe some of the people that you rescue at various points could also go live there.

 

 

And reserve characters that can be made into captains of the keep, like Eder if you dont use him. I love Crossroads keep, the people, merchants and what not, even had a resource collector. Sentrys that walk the grounds, and more attacks on the keep.

[Isi1dur]

I like the Stronghold considering that it has a lot of potential, quite frankly this feature was superb in NWN2.

 

It just needs to be fleshed out and improved upon from its current incarnation in the upcoming patches and i really hope that will happen, it would be a real shame to leave it the way it is now.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Isi1dur

[matthewfarmery]

if you do have people there, (say two or more) then any attacks (bandits or from endless paths) should auto resolve, hireings should be used to patrol the outer areas and help to spread the word of your good (or bad nature) while companions (and custom) should help to stop stuff coming from below, and should also keep gaining experience to be either 1 level below your main char. this will still make them viable throughout the game, but still a small penalty if you don't use them. (main companions can be equal to your char, but custom 1 level below your char)

 

that way, you can pickup the keep, add some of the companions and custom, and let the keep do its own thing without having to go back to defend it all the time. (unless you are present on the grounds when the attacks happen)

 

that would be a lot better system.

[Posbi]

Well, in all honesty, the whole Stronghold seems to have been handled rather disappointingly, and by that I do mean in design, in execution and with regards to the factor of immersion. All I wrote on the topic before the release of the game still stands, and Obsidian has done nothing to change that. And it could have been so easy. Take a plausible reason to gain the stronghold in the first place: Kolsc (or Raedric, but why the **** would you even chose him?) grants you the place for your support in the preceeding affairs. Seeing how he is the lord over a destitute and depopulated realm, that's all he can give you: a ruined stronghold and your name to it. You could still have Maerwald dwelling there, maybe as a trespasser or simply as the former liege lord who has gone mad over the years as memories have swallowed him while his territory falls to ruin in the face of Waidwen's Legacy. As the stronghold sits on an old trade route across a river ford you even get a reason for it's existence in the first place. The Endless Paths should be something you discover later on while repairing the keep, not something presented to you on a silver platter. And by restoring the keep you draw back in the settlers/villagers that may have left before, and that entails a whole slew of scripted (mini-)quests, adventuring parties visiting you, etc. See, that wasn't hard to think of. Took me ten minutes. Should have been no more difficult for Obsidian.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Posbi

[Jayngo]

I'm not too far into the game-about 15 hrs or so (not had anytime to play this week), but I don't understand why everyone is saying the Stronghold is immersion breaking and not needed.

 

To me, the more the merrier. I have completed about 3-4 upgrades and I think it's a neat little "side-quest" that plays out differently than everything else in the game. Plus, you eventually get bounties from the upgrades.

 

I just don't really understand why the Stronghold is disliked so much. It also has a huge dungeon underneath it! And a talking stone throne. I love it personally.

[TheHarpoMarxist]

It already has a talking chair, why not also give us a genie, a magic screen, and Mr. Window?

[lyin321]

I'm not too far into the game-about 15 hrs or so (not had anytime to play this week), but I don't understand why everyone is saying the Stronghold is immersion breaking and not needed.

 

To me, the more the merrier. I have completed about 3-4 upgrades and I think it's a neat little "side-quest" that plays out differently than everything else in the game. Plus, you eventually get bounties from the upgrades.

 

I just don't really understand why the Stronghold is disliked so much. It also has a huge dungeon underneath it! And a talking stone throne. I love it personally.

 

 No one (or few) is (are) saying that it is bad part of the game. It's just that it easily could have been so much better....

As it is it's almost like an empty Stronghold from BG2 (if you have played it).

Edited April 2, 2015 by lyin321

[Jayngo]

It already has a talking chair, why not also give us a genie, a magic screen, and Mr. Window?

 

And Cowboy Curtis????

[wotdlois]

I have yet to get to the point where having a stronghold is even an option - so the question is do I need one?  Having read through the thread it seems to be a superfluous feature.  Do i gain anything by having it other than tax income and a place to rest safely?

[Elfwyn]

I'm not too far into the game-about 15 hrs or so (not had anytime to play this week), but I don't understand why everyone is saying the Stronghold is immersion breaking and not needed.

 

To me, the more the merrier. I have completed about 3-4 upgrades and I think it's a neat little "side-quest" that plays out differently than everything else in the game. Plus, you eventually get bounties from the upgrades.

 

I just don't really understand why the Stronghold is disliked so much. It also has a huge dungeon underneath it! And a talking stone throne. I love it personally.

I also love the Stronghold and I didn't intend to feed the "told you so" - faction.

While the Stronghold and the Endless Paths are great concepts, I get the feeling that there was not enough time to integrate them into their surrounding plausibly. As the Rest of the Game did profit from this priorization I think that it might have been the right decission.

I would just like to see it devloped further to reach out for the quality standards in storytelling the rest of the game is presenting us, and I think it should be quite possible to do so without reworking a bigger part of the game.

[lyin321]

I have yet to get to the point where having a stronghold is even an option - so the question is do I need one?  Having read through the thread it seems to be a superfluous feature.  Do i gain anything by having it other than tax income and a place to rest safely?

 Ofcourse you do...you get to pay money from your own pockets so it's all good!

 

...oh and some RP options, but who cares about RP in such a game:)

[Ekaros]

I have yet to get to the point where having a stronghold is even an option - so the question is do I need one?  Having read through the thread it seems to be a superfluous feature.  Do i gain anything by having it other than tax income and a place to rest safely?

 

No, though it does hold access to the endless dungeon and is required to advance in the game. There is exp for quests and some special items to be bought at occasions, but not it's nothing really special.

[wotdlois]

 

I have yet to get to the point where having a stronghold is even an option - so the question is do I need one?  Having read through the thread it seems to be a superfluous feature.  Do i gain anything by having it other than tax income and a place to rest safely?

 

No, though it does hold access to the endless dungeon and is required to advance in the game. There is exp for quests and some special items to be bought at occasions, but not it's nothing really special.

 

thanks for the reply - endless dungeon does sound pretty sweet and xp is always welcomed.  Looks like ill be getting a stronghold.  

[Ekaros]

 

 

I have yet to get to the point where having a stronghold is even an option - so the question is do I need one?  Having read through the thread it seems to be a superfluous feature.  Do i gain anything by having it other than tax income and a place to rest safely?

 

No, though it does hold access to the endless dungeon and is required to advance in the game. There is exp for quests and some special items to be bought at occasions, but not it's nothing really special.

 

thanks for the reply - endless dungeon does sound pretty sweet and xp is always welcomed.  Looks like ill be getting a stronghold.  

 

 

You get it for free when you advance a bit in game, but upgrades cost money.

[syarulax]

Yeah tax probably come from Both DBay and TElms which path to go north is through the stronghold.

[synfrei]

First of all I can't thank Obsidian enough for bringing us this brilliant piece of art!

 

I have hardly anything to criticize, but I don't want to hold back either, because I think the game could get even better with a little more work.

 

The only thing that feels rather "strange" to me is the Stronghold. While the base mechanics of it are more than adequate, the execution seems out of place in the otherwise perfect suroundings.

 

The first thing I asked myself was:

How does "she" contact the stone masons and workers in her current form?

Where are the people that are working on the different upgrades?

Who is the one collecting the income (the grounds seem quite empty)?

Who are the subjects that pay taxes and

why do they pay taxes to a person who just seems to be accepted "by the stronghold"?

 

I would welcome at least an explanation how this is supposed to happen in the world:

 

On the other hand these are good opportuinities to get small tasks to for example hire a small work force or guards in the city or getting "her" a sort of Avatar to better handle the Construction coordination. Visit the people in the surrounding lands.

A few Worker-NPCs wandering around the construction sites would also benefit the immersion.

 

I think it would not require a whole lot of work to make some very beneficial changes to the Stronghold system which - immersion-wise - looks like a blemish on the otherwise brilliantly immersive story.

 

Yes for me the Stronghold feels Empty too - there is no one living in it... but i dont like e.g. garrisons in wow either and there is movement within, and there are tasks and you can go missions and so on... but the immersion is never working for me.

 

I dont need to own somethin, i play a character who saves the world or somethin equally, i dont need a place to stay or to come back... and if i have this place why is there peace all the time... the immersion is for me so important to feel a place, breath it, peer into it... without its just a house with some walls around ok and a few quests which i have to do to play the game, but mostly i leave it quick because i feel empty myself in a place which is empty.

 

[Mungri]

I love the stronghold.

 

I got a green barbarian brute (50g per day upkeep), and Goldpact Paladin (20g per day) defending it, and each adds a total of 6 prestige and security each.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Mungri

[takamorisan]

My feedback for the stronghold, it could use some more people inside the hold, sometimes I feel it empty.

 

Need more events, where you can only choose people garrisoned in the stronghold.

 

And change the shops selling table according to how well is the stronghold performing taking in account prestige and security status. So when someone relevant visit you might have to plan a return to the hold to check out if there is any nice item awaiting for you.

[Althernai]

I like the stronghold. Sure, it would have been nice to have some builders and other personnel standing around to make it clear how the work is being done, but I don't find their lack too problematic. Likewise, I don't really mind if it serves few functions other than having a nice castle (though it does actually do some stuff in PoE) -- its main appeal is that you inherit a ruin and make it into a home.

[anameforobsidian]

I think the stronghold could be more immersive (and you could queue upgrades), but there were only so many resources in making the game. I still think the stronghold is pretty great.

[Zhaocore]

Could be better, atm i have that unpaid hirelings bug happening =/...also the "turn" history is all messed up.