Journalism and bias in the gaming industry

[Blarghagh]

Continued from here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70851-journalism-and-bias-in-the-gaming-industry/page-28

 

For the uninitiated: The 'Gamergate' controversy was sparked in early 2013, as the release of Zoe Quinn's "Depression Quest" was criticized from gamers who believed that the game had received a suspicious amount of attention in relation to it's quality and scope. Eron Gjoni (Zoe's ex boyfriend) wrote a blogpost accusing Quinn of having had an affair with Kotaku journalist Grayson, prompting the critics to conclude that the attention and success of "Depression Quest" was due in part to unfair bias and nepotism in the industry.

 

Several articles from both sides of the issue has highlighted inconsistencies in the stories of both Grayson, Quinn and Eron as well as the many other examples that have followed.

 

 

Gamergate is wideley seen in the public, as a culture war over the diversification of gaming, artistic recognition and social criticism of video games and the gamer social identity.

 

 

 

For the posters in this thread:

Many bloggers and populists have tried to steer the discussion into areas they feel are the underlying issue - ranging from simple bias, to widespread misogny or misandry. I would however prefer that we keep this discussion as objective and clean as possible and so I will be keeping an a extra close eye on this thread. This certainly does not mean that you may not discuss any issue you feel, but rather that you should be thoughtful of  how  you discuss it with those you disagree with.

Especially in regards to these three guidelines:

 

Discrimination: Obsidian has a zero-tolerance policy with regard to racial, ethnic, gender, religious, disablement, and/or sexually discriminating remarks.

Harassment: We ask that the users of this board treat one another with respect, even when opinions differ. Personal attacks that are intended to cause unwanted attention, embarrassment, or harm will not be tolerated. In addition, Obsidian does not tolerate disrespectful and/or slanderous posts about its competitors, developers and publishers. Such posts will be subject to editing or deleting, with its posters censured or banned.

 

Objectionable Content: The use of abusive, vulgar or profane language, even if hidden through the use of symbols or other characters is not tolerated. Intentionally posting workarounds to our language filters are prohibited. Posts may be edited or deleted at any time by the moderation team, and depending on the severity and frequency of said posts, the poster may be censured or banned.

 

Any posts in violation of the Forum Guidelines will either be removed or modified and authors of such posts will receive warnings and/or have their content placed under moderated review.

 

[kirottu]

@Alanschu
 
Here's TotalBiscuit explaining this issue better than I could. 

[Volourn]

The outcry over the silly gravestone or whatever is silly. It is such an irrelevant throw away line. Getting all triggered over it shows how weak and pathetic a person is.

 

\On top of that, to me, it shows how the character who committed suicide over such an unfortunate event is weak. To kill yourself over that is pathetic.

 

Oh noess... KI just triggered someone who is pro suicide!

[valmont]

By the way I looked at KiA and someone posted this up

 

http://imgur.com/UZ9jjWn

 

The guy doing it is a literal fascist.

[Nonek]

It's pathetic i've got to agree, a joke that is widely prevalant and seen everywhere from on television to banter down the local is now taken seriously? I swear that the Life of Brian would never get made if these humourless, insecure and desperate to be offended people had the the power we give them now.

 

Meanwhile lying about people whom are moderates asking for reasonable actions, and calling them sexist, racist, misogynist, neckbeards and much worse is considered to be perfectly acceptable. Then again what would I know i'm a subhuman untermensch for asking journalists to do their jobs. Censor away.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Nonek

[pseudonymous]

I triggered when I saw the quote from this guy:

 

 

 

My therapist thanks the person that wasted their money leaving that immersion breaking nonsense in game.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

By the way I looked at KiA and someone posted this up

 

http://imgur.com/UZ9jjWn

 

The guy doing it is a literal fascist.

And that's not even counting banana nazi.

[Syraxis]

I triggered when I saw the quote from this guy:

 

 

 

My therapist thanks the person that wasted their money leaving that immersion breaking nonsense in game.

 

Is that Linus Torvalds?

[Zoraptor]

It probably would have been sensible to exclude the PoE poem beforehand, this sort of controversy does not have a happy resolution for Obsidian since either the censorship or anti censorship will get upset whatever the response now.

 

Still, the poem itself is pretty harmless overall. While I can see how it could be seen as transphobic arguably its inference that heterosexual men are so insecure in their sexuality that inadvertent exposure to dong would make them kill themselves is at least as potentially offensive, so it's balanced.

 

(Good thing Croc Dundee came out decades ago, I can only imagine the reaction to its 'transphobia' now)

[Hurlshort]

 

Still, the poem itself is pretty harmless overall. While I can see how it could be seen as transphobic arguably its inference that heterosexual men are so insecure in their sexuality that inadvertent exposure to dong would make them kill themselves is at least as potentially offensive, so it's balanced.

 

(Good thing Croc Dundee came out decades ago, I can only imagine the reaction to its 'transphobia' now)

 

That's pretty much my argument.  The guy kills himself, he's hardly the hero.  It's a bit of dark comedy that really is more of a commentary on the misguided notion that your conquests in the bedroom define you.

[Orogun01]

It probably would have been sensible to exclude the PoE poem beforehand, this sort of controversy does not have a happy resolution for Obsidian since either the censorship or anti censorship will get upset whatever the response now.

 

Still, the poem itself is pretty harmless overall. While I can see how it could be seen as transphobic arguably its inference that heterosexual men are so insecure in their sexuality that inadvertent exposure to dong would make them kill themselves is at least as potentially offensive, so it's balanced.

 

(Good thing Croc Dundee came out decades ago, I can only imagine the reaction to its 'transphobia' now)

Sensible is not making a fuss over every offense, I don't sensible solutions work with the mentally ill.

 

Quite frankly, I'm still wishing that the world will collectively tell these people to go **** themselves so we can regain some semblance of sanity where not everything has to be looked through the lens of an alternative value system. But every time they do this more people back down due to the pressure and lend their value system more credence, yet their every victory has the taint of the means they used to achieve it. Now I can't stop making everything political, they make gender and sexual orientation as divisive as left and right wing politics are. These people should not be listened to, they should just be ignored.

 

Edit: not by us mind you, but by the people they are trying to bully into changing.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Orogun01

[Meshugger]

The news love the outrage industry as it pays in good rating and dollars.

 

I hope for a world where people collectively join hands, pointing and laughing at these kinds of people.

[kirottu]

[Malcador]

Ah, Cheong is angry about this, excellent, can have fun with that later. I'm not seeing how this is promoting hatred of trans people any more than "Dude Looked Like A Lady" or "Lola" does.

 

Real molehill though, I did like the person who originated this pathetically begging Cross to speak up on it though, heh.

[Amentep]

Was curious to see what the reaction to this would be here.

 

If you believe the contributors should have had carte blanche to write whatever they want with no oversight from Obsidian, then that's fine. It's a position we disagree on. I suspect they didn't let people write anything they wanted and that the submissions were vetted, so I'd need to know what Obsidian did in those cases, because I suspect it was probably a mistake.

 

We know they did vet the tombstones.

 

What I don't get is, specifically, what the problem with this tombstone is.  Are we saying that in-game characters can't be transphobic?  Homophobic?  Racist?  In other words (even though this is backer content) why does an in-game character being clearly transphobic* (to the point of killing themselves - not the trans in question) translate to Obsidian as a company, individual employees - or even the backer who made that content - being transphobes (or anti-trans) themselves?

 

Because this kind of corollary logic (it exists in the game, therefore the makers of the game support this) is pretty unsupportable, IMO.

 

Spoiler for POE:

 

Using this logic, you could argue that Obsidian is racist because they show lynching in the first village the PC finds and as added fuel, Eder's has a "debate" with the PC over whether to count the lynched dwarf as half a person.  SInce Obsidian let this content through, they are clearly racists using lynching images and debating about "others" being subhuman as an allegory for their own racism and hate in their real life**

 

 

*I suppose this is transvestite phobic since the guy was able to find out she was a man.  I haven't played PoE long enough to know whether the setting supports transexuality or not to be honest, but if magic can make someone a woman, I'm not sure how you'd find out she had ever been anything other than a woman.

 

**Obviously I don't think this is true, but this is why I think this kind of argument is a slippery slope.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Amentep

[Keyrock]

 

What I don't get is, specifically, what the problem with this tombstone is.  

There is none, if you're a reasonable person.  It's a silly limerick (limericks are, by their nature, often obscene) about a fictional person who's transphobic.  The joke is at his expense.  More importantly, it's just a joke.

 

 

Are we saying that in-game characters can't be transphobic?  Homophobic?  Racist? 

 

Not us, that's what the bullies are saying.  They want to homogenize all media to their liking.

[Amentep]

Not us

Seemed very much like that Alan did feel that way, which is why I wanted to quote his response. He probably won't have time to respond, but I think its a valid question regardless.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I watched The Crying Game last night because that limerick reminded me of it. Would be a shame to see certain things not explored in art because someone is offended by something. Such as To Kill a Mocking Bird, because blacks being wrongly convicted has happened.

 

If you haven't watched The Crying Game I highly recommend it, btw.

[Keyrock]

 

Not us

Seemed very much like that Alan did feel that way, which is why I wanted to quote his response. He probably won't have time to respond, but I think its a valid question regardless.

 

Well, to me it seems like Alan is being an apologist for the bullies.  While I don't think his motives are bad, nor do I think he realizes he's helping to spread bullying and terror, he's just trying to be sensitive to their feels, the fact is that apologists for the scumbags driving today's shaming culture are enabling them and indirectly helping the spread of shaming culture.

 

The people driving shaming culture are bullies.  They use fear and intimidation to make others submit to their demands at the threat of having their livelihood ruined; many have had their livelihood ruined, even after they submitted to the bullies demands.  Some of these people, no doubt, derive great pleasure from ruining other people's lives.  These people are monsters.  They do not deserve to be apologized for.  They do not deserve our pity.  They deserve ridicule and contempt.

[Meshugger]

If this continues, we might as well ban history and folklore all together. I mean, what kind of misogynist and phobist wrote a song like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rAj-WtGng

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

If this continues, we might as well ban history and folklore all together. I mean, what kind of misogynist and phobist wrote a song like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rAj-WtGng

Thanks a lot ****lord, now I'm gonna have to listen to Dubliners when I go running.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Gorth
Language

[Keyrock]

If this continues, we might as well ban history and folklore all together. I mean, what kind of misogynist and phobist wrote a song like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rAj-WtGng

Dammit, Meshugger, I'm TRIGGERED...  Triggered into a desire to listen to more Dubliners. 

[Nonek]

For me it's simple, the limerick did not in any way depict harming or degrading the man whom the other man buggered, also I would oppose a Neo Nazi and a genocide advocate no matter what they suggested. If I ever got to the point where I found myself supporting such people then I would have to take a long hard look at my life and figure out what went wrong.

[Lexx]

I love all the outrage. "Wut? Dis in gaem? Now I will not buy it anymore!" Pretty sure none of them would have bought it in the first place anyway.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Lexx

[Keyrock]

Yeah, I do wonder what percentage of the people getting bent out of shape over the limerick:

 

1) Are current Obsidian Entertainment customers

2) Have at any point been Obsidian Entertainment customers

3) Would ever be Obsidian Entertainment customers in the future if they are placated

 

We'll almost certainly never get the true answer, but I bet that if you added the percentages of 1, 2, and 3 together it would be in the single digits.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Keyrock