Hard mode is too easy.

[PrimeJunta]

Or maybe there is too umbalanced gap between Hard mode and PoD and i know, as a mature person, that criticising the weakest points of the game it is necessary for having a better\refined product in the future.

So switch on Expert Mode (or any of its components individually), or play with a smaller party, or do any of the other things I listed plus others besides to tune the difficulty for you.

[demeisen]

I agree with people saying there are small but critical balance tweaks needed to various mechanics

 

 

Ditto here.  I think the overall system is really pretty nice - I hope it succeeds wildly and they make lots of great sequels, because I'm seriously digging this game.  Best RPG in years and years!  It needs a few tweaks currently, but that's inevitable for a brand new RPG system.  Even on launch day it was still great fun.  Over time I think they'll adjust things here and there to improve balance.  Balance is hard to get right, and "right" is always in the eye of the beholder.

 

My early game suggestions (I'm only L4 so far) would be: make fighters a little easier to hit, maybe nerf the Wizard's L1 CC a little (just less chance to hit, maybe?), and a few others small things.  Nothing drastic.  Then leave easy and normal alone so the more casual players can still enjoy the game, and give hard a modest monster buff.  I can't switch to POD in mid game, so dunno about that, but they could add something between hard and POD you could switch to if hard was too easy.

 

If it really gets much easier past L4, as folks up above have said, maybe that needs improvement.  Buff mid level monsters maybe?

Edited March 31, 2015 by demeisen

[Justinian]

 

Or maybe there is too umbalanced gap between Hard mode and PoD and i know, as a mature person, that criticising the weakest points of the game it is necessary for having a better\refined product in the future.

So switch on Expert Mode (or any of its components individually), or play with a smaller party, or do any of the other things I listed plus others besides to tune the difficulty for you.

 

 

I never understand people who say this.

 

What's the point of making the game more difficult by handicapping yourself? The game on hard should be difficult due to the rules laid down by the game itself!

[tinderbox]

I'm playing hard and got wiped out twice last night on the Endless Paths of Od Nua level three boss fight. My six-character party is level 5/4 though so I'm not certain whether I'm pushing the envelope too much or simply not being tactically astute enough.

[Mazisky]

 

 

Or maybe there is too umbalanced gap between Hard mode and PoD and i know, as a mature person, that criticising the weakest points of the game it is necessary for having a better\refined product in the future.

So switch on Expert Mode (or any of its components individually), or play with a smaller party, or do any of the other things I listed plus others besides to tune the difficulty for you.

 

 

I never understand people who say this.

 

What's the point of making the game more difficult by handicapping yourself? The game on hard should be difficult due to the rules laid down by the game itself!

 

 

Dude, seriously. If you find the game too easy, try to play by pressing mouse buttons with the nose and keyboard ones with the chin before complaininng.

 

If it is still easy, try to crush your monitor before playing, so that you have a kinda glass-web on screen who makes visuals unclear.

 

If you are still unhappy, cut your arms with an electric saw and try to play with the forearm bones, trying to rush till endgame before you die cause of blood misses.

 

This is how some players think you should fix the issue instead of asking for balance patches.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Mazisky

[PrimeJunta]

@Mazisky I would understand your complaint if you were already playing at the hardest difficulty level.

 

But you're not. Complaining that Hard is too easy but Path of the Damned is too hard just strikes me as incredibly picky, especially as there are other options with which you can fine-tune the difficulty -- with game settings or in-game choices.

[Osvir]

"Hard" in Pillars of Eternity aims to be "Core" difficulty of Baldur's Gate. In retrospect: it achieves this really well.

Late-game Baldur's Gate is also easy, well, the entire game on "Core" difficulty of Baldur's Gate is fairly easy in the same way as "Hard" is in Pillars.

PrimeJunta has a point, and I should play "PotD" and see if the thoughts I have about "Hard" will remain.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Osvir

[Dongom]

"Hard" in Pillars of Eternity aims to be "Core" difficulty of Baldur's Gate. In retrospect: it achieves this really well.

 

Late-game Baldur's Gate is also easy, well, the entire game on "Core" difficulty of Baldur's Gate is fairly easy in the same way as "Hard" is in Pillars.

 

PrimeJunta has a point, and I should play "PotD" and see if the thoughts I have about "Hard" will remain.

 

True, but Overall I find PoE to be "harder" than BG1/2 as  you still need a party to do it with a breeze.

 

BG1/2 can be facerolled solo.

[Sacred_Path]

I need a difficulty mode that makes prostitutes cost 1 gold, makes enemies forget about my wizard (I like em squishy) and gives trolls a million endurance so I can bang on them forever (I hate trollls). Do it Obs!

[Lohi]

First, hard mode is plenty hard for me.  Maybe after a few play throughs it will get easier, but as it is some fights are very hard.

Second, it's ironic that at the same time players are complaining that the companions are too gimped and useless and that they should be beefed up.  How can it be both ways, too easy and the party still needs to be buffed?

 

I think there are a couple types of players who keep showing up again and again in some games.  Those who will always say it's too easy (for ego reasons, or to tweak others), and those who feel that they must have the perfect builds and perfect party.  It just keeps happening again and again over the years.

[Spivo]

Play on hard, with main rogue and the in-game npc's fighter, wizard and priest so far.

 

I suspect people who find the game to easy have made optimal main character, and maybe made generic npc's.

And people who find the game to hard don't micromanage combats, or take on to big fights until the proper level, and/or without a balanced party.

[Odd Hermit]

I think the issue with is the class balance.

 

I cheesed a combo that is basically knocking down people prone with a 5th circle wizard spell(forgot the name)

And proceed to cast with the druid the fire bounce spell, that hits 50-100 per bounce.

 

Nerf magic damage a bit IMO and allow stealth for one character at time so rogue can be viable in combat.

 

Call to Slumber

Firebug

 

 

Firebug is pretty awesome. Call to Slumber doesn't seem that remarkable compared to Slicken as level 1 though.

 

Magic definitely >>> ranged/melee damage. There's a place for tanky melee/support as well, but classes like Barbarian, Ranger, Rogue feel weak right now due to lacking the versatility of casters.

 

Durability of non-casters non-tanks needs a buff and they could use some more active abilities.

 

If casters get toned down too much though they'll need durability buffs as well since they're super fragile right now - almost too much so but their damage, control, and versatility makes up for it at the moment.

 

 

 

Honestly I have a hard time judging balance for hard right now though 'cause it gets really easy past level 5 or so, and only a few fights provide real challenge so things that shine on those particular situations seem strong, and otherwise it's just about efficiency at clearing weak stuff/easy encounters.

 

I think undead need a nerf and almost everything else needs a buff, encounter/enemy wise.

[Madscientist]

Unfortuanatly I have encountered the 2 mayor bugs (infinite stats stacking and loss of passive talents). Eder is level 6 and has over 170 deflection and over 100 in other defenses. Right now I play on normal to enjoy the atmoshere and look for more bugs. When the patch comes out I will start again. I have an optimized cipher as main char.

 

My thoughts: I love this game because of the atmoshere. It is one of the few RPG where you can actually roleplay. When I start again, I will use a non optimized char (or should I say optimized for his role playing aspect) and 5 companions. I will play more like PST than as IWD. I started IWD several times but I never finished. Not because it was too hard but too boring. Hard adds only more enemies, but If I want to be overrun with hordes of enemies over and over I play IWD again.

 

It is good that they made a game where a non optimized party can go through the game on normal without dieing every 5 minutes. If you find the game too easy, play on PotD and if even this is too easy for you, you have the option to solo, expert mode and iron trail. If the devs make the game so hard that experienced RPG gamers find it challenging on normal, then new players will only be frustrated and they will never see what a great game it is.

[Zwiebelchen]

I'm currently playing on PotD with a highly optimized tank as my PC and a druid as a custom-made companion.

 

Everything else are story-NPCs.

 

 

All I can say is that this mode is difficult as ****. Almost every map has a battle that can only be won with a good load of consumables, using all spells and tactical positioning/use of all resources.

 

I'm actually amazed at how balanced PotD is. I never felt like PotD is cheating in any way. All fights were perfectly winable so far with a good strategy and using the landscape to your advantage. But even then you will usually reload several times per map. Obviously, the Adra dragon is nearly unkillable in PotD, but that's how it's meant to be after all.

 

Ironman PotD? I don't see me trying this any time soon, and I call myself an IE veteran. I'd say it's almost impossible to do this without a fully customized party. With an optimized henchmen group, it will still be extremely challenging.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[CaptainMace]

Second, it's ironic that at the same time players are complaining that the companions are too gimped and useless and that they should be beefed up.

 

I've read people complain about that too, but I never did myself. Actually, companions are fine as they are, considering the impact of attributes on a character efficiency (which is not decisive imo).

 

However i'll say it as long as I believe it, the hard mode doesn't fit its description in the difficulty selection screen during the whole Act 2, and all the side-content available during this part of the game.

 

I'm kinda tired of the "damn ego maniac" bulls**t... fighting enemies with such a deflection that your base accuracy on half the party is already higher is not a situation that "requires optimization through items, spells, etc" as the description says.

 

So my point being, the problem resides in the encounters during Act 2.

Edited April 1, 2015 by CaptainMace

[ComplyOrDie]

I'm currently playing on PotD with a highly optimized tank as my PC and a druid as a custom-made companion.

 

Everything else are story-NPCs.

 

 

All I can say is that this mode is difficult as ****. Almost every map has a battle that can only be won with a good load of consumables, using all spells and tactical positioning/use of all resources.

 

I'm actually amazed at how balanced PotD is. I never felt like PotD is cheating in any way. All fights were perfectly winable so far with a good strategy and using the landscape to your advantage. But even then you will usually reload several times per map. Obviously, the Adra dragon is nearly unkillable in PotD, but that's how it's meant to be after all.

 

Ironman PotD? I don't see me trying this any time soon, and I call myself an IE veteran. I'd say it's almost impossible to do this without a fully customized party. With an optimized henchmen group, it will still be extremely challenging.

I'm amazed you feel that way about potd, especially with a custom built tank. Did you stack deflection? I have a standard npc party with eder as tank, have stacked deflection talents and pretty much steam rolled post stronghold to the last battle. None of the enemies can scratch eder unless they have a good stun (crystal eater) and neither can my friendly fire, so he just wades in while I chill out or fireball everything down if I'm in a hurry. Haven't needed to buff use potions food since act one. one shotted almost everything including all human parties. It's been my one disappointment in this incredible game so far. I'm concerned I could have some kind of bug but stats appear normal. Does your tank ever get hit? What's his deflection?

 

In reply to another poster, I doubt anyone is sad enough to want to brag about being amazing at this game, I just want a challenge where I am forced to use consumables etc and think about each fight and try different approaches instead of fireball eder in the face until everything surrounding him is dead.

 

Having said that, without a deflection stacked tank could see things getting very hairy very quickly. Looking forward to trying a run without an optimised tank next.

[DocDoomII]

Just to remind that there are bugs that apply stats bonuses multiple times on your characters.

So if someone find the games overly easy, it could be because he didn't notice his characters got extra stat bonuses.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73449-stat-bonus-modifiers-can-erroneously-be-applied-multiple-times-allowing-stats-to-grow-beyond-intended-values/

[Zwiebelchen]

 

I'm amazed you feel that way about potd, especially with a custom built tank. Did you stack deflection? I have a standard npc party with eder as tank, have stacked deflection talents and pretty much steam rolled post stronghold to the last battle. None of the enemies can scratch eder unless they have a good stun (crystal eater) and neither can my friendly fire, so he just wades in while I chill out or fireball everything down if I'm in a hurry. Haven't needed to buff use potions food since act one. one shotted almost everything including all human parties. It's been my one disappointment in this incredible game so far. I'm concerned I could have some kind of bug but stats appear normal. Does your tank ever get hit? What's his deflection?

 

In reply to another poster, I doubt anyone is sad enough to want to brag about being amazing at this game, I just want a challenge where I am forced to use consumables etc and think about each fight and try different approaches instead of fireball eder in the face until everything surrounding him is dead.

 

Having said that, without a deflection stacked tank could see things getting very hairy very quickly. Looking forward to trying a run without an optimised tank next.

 

 

I'm using a heavily optimized tank built towards max deflection and still my tank got hit hard on PotD. I am pretty sure my custom tank scores more deflection that Eder could ever have even with appropriate build and talents.

 

So, judging from that, I'd say it's a safe bet that you got hit by a bug. Either the "difficulty bug" that resets the game difficulty from what you initially selected or the stat bug stacking deflection and defenses way beyond intended levels.

 

I was very careful to avoid all known bugs in my current playthrough, to play with a bug-free party. You should check out your savegames to be sure.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[ComplyOrDie]

Yeah I read about the bug and checked. His deflection and stats are fine so his unequipped deflection is say in the 40s, stick on defender plus sword and shield talents and you push 80/90. Throw him ssome help in a fight if hes flanked and the enemy needs an acc of 90 to have an even chance of hitting him, and most have significantly less.

[Zwiebelchen]

Yeah I read about the bug and checked. His deflection and stats are fine so his unequipped deflection is say in the 40s, stick on defender plus sword and shield talents and you push 80/90. Throw him ssome help in a fight if hes flanked and the enemy needs an acc of 90 to have an even chance of hitting him, and most have significantly less.

 

I remember having an 80 unbuffed deflection rating on my monk already (buffed even higher!) on level 3 (haven't checked again since) and I got hit in the face hard.

 

I think there is something funky going on in your game.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[ComplyOrDie]

I really hope so, because I really really want to start dying. I don't see how you can be getting hit often with that deflection at lvl 3 though. with damage reduction for grazes and accuracies in the 50s vs a 80/90 deflection the maths seem in eder s favour.

[Elerond]

 

There seems to be this point during Act 1 where things just become a breeze except for the odd fight or two. Nothing can hit Eder at the moment.

Yeah, that happened to me in the last few fights. I didn't even give him Defender Mode, and he's still holding off like 4 enemies at a time while my PC Wizard and Aloth tag-team stuff from afar. MY PC Wizard actually switches to a 1-handed Rapier to help out once the enemies are thinned out a bit (that and I like using as much short-range magic as possible... just my style, 8P).

 

I think maybe a few tuning passes are in order, to make things a bit less swingy? I don't have an issue with party setup A making things easier than party setup B. But, there are some things that seem way easier even on Hard difficulty than they're meant to be. I get things being not uber-hard if you do it right, but... some stuff's been just passively unworrisome (such as 4-5 things clawing at Eder, but don't worry... he's fine for like the next 6 attacks with me not actively making him fine).

 

Really, the only thing that's been HARD hard were the first bears I fought. They pretty much laughed at Eder's armor and Deflection values. Of course, that was at Level 2. *shrug*

 

 

Edér and my tank Chanter (which I build so that enemies had quite hard time to hit her even in beginning of they without speaking after couple talents and better itemization) held without taking much of damage adra dragon at bay after I had used summons to make her to waste all her breath attacks (which are just ridiculous as its grazes do over 170 damage)

 

Hardest enemies that I have found were actually Ogre druids, but that was because of one of their spell is bugged and it causes permanent raw damage effect to anybody that it even grazes, only way to get rid of it is to switch effected members off your party or let them get maimed (which is not option if you play with instant death option, which means that if your PC is effected by it you need to load).

 

And I find that Crystal Eater spiders can in some cases cause raw damage effects even when they miss their initial attack which in I think should not be the case.

[ComplyOrDie]

 

 

There seems to be this point during Act 1 where things just become a breeze except for the odd fight or two. Nothing can hit Eder at the moment.

 

Yeah, that happened to me in the last few fights. I didn't even give him Defender Mode, and he's still holding off like 4 enemies at a time while my PC Wizard and Aloth tag-team stuff from afar. MY PC Wizard actually switches to a 1-handed Rapier to help out once the enemies are thinned out a bit (that and I like using as much short-range magic as possible... just my style, 8P).

I think maybe a few tuning passes are in order, to make things a bit less swingy? I don't have an issue with party setup A making things easier than party setup B. But, there are some things that seem way easier even on Hard difficulty than they're meant to be. I get things being not uber-hard if you do it right, but... some stuff's been just passively unworrisome (such as 4-5 things clawing at Eder, but don't worry... he's fine for like the next 6 attacks with me not actively making him fine).

Really, the only thing that's been HARD hard were the first bears I fought. They pretty much laughed at Eder's armor and Deflection values. Of course, that was at Level 2. *shrug*

 

Edér and my tank Chanter (which I build so that enemies had quite hard time to hit her even in beginning of they without speaking after couple talents and better itemization) held without taking much of damage adra dragon at bay after I had used summons to make her to waste all her breath attacks (which are just ridiculous as its grazes do over 170 damage)

 

Hardest enemies that I have found were actually Ogre druids, but that was because of one of their spell is bugged and it causes permanent raw damage effect to anybody that it even grazes, only way to get rid of it is to switch effected members off your party or let them get maimed (which is not option if you play with instant death option, which means that if your PC is effected by it you need to load).

 

And I find that Crystal Eater spiders can in some cases cause raw damage effects even when they miss their initial attack which in I think should not be the case.

The most obvious solutions are to buff enemy accuracy or nerf deflection, of course this creates the problem that everyone else in your party will die even harder if they do get caught out of position. Perhaps prevent deflection modifiers from stacking and up the importance of DR a bit is the way to go, might make you want to have more than one guy wearing armour. As above, could be a bug, but the maths suggests it's not.

[Osvir]

Combusting Wounds+Firebug+The Dragon Thrashed (Or "Rime and Frost" for earlier)+Carnage = Yeaaaaaaahhh!! :D

Wizard, Druid, Chanter, Barbarian. Massive AoE damage.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Osvir

[Ferrante]

The game is fine. (I found it incredible hard with my first time in Hard+expert). Just check if you dont have the High stat bug