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Yep, you're right. Sadly, as this very thread shows, it's hard to please everyone's expectations, especially ones that nobody could have predicted before it happened.

 

Vardia, it is now common practice to 'finish' the game with a Day 1 patch. This is because when a game goes gold (certified for DVD production), it then takes a couple of weeks to distribute - that's two weeks up to the release day that they could continue to work on bugfixes and the like. So all that work they did right up to the release day goes into the Day 1 patch, 'completing' the full release version.

I don't see how it would be a surprise to them that people who backed the game would at least think they would be able to preload it at the same time as those who preorder it on steam...seems a little shortsighted or bad management if they had no idea.

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Any chance we can get a quick write up of the final patch changes?

I have to imagine that they already have release notes drafted and ready to push with the patch.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word.

 

A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments.

 

That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

 

Not going to get into a language argument on the word entitled (it has multiple meanings and different countries/societies will use it differently)

 

I know Obsidian is going no where - but by voicing my nonacceptance of their behavior hopefully in the future they will either learn or ignore it - if they're better people they will learn if they don't then thats their consequences to bare.

 

Lets all be completely honest here - not one person here would have been upset in any way shape or form getting their KS editions early. Am I right? is there anyone who would have turned around and yelled at Obsidian for not holding it back and releasing it at the scheduled date?

 

But conversely there are people who are upset at finding out their backer status wasn't important enough to Obsidian for them to put them first above media. These people are allowed to feel slighted and disrespected and are allowed to voice their feelings on the matter. If Obsidian gave a crap about their backers they'll listen if they don't they wont either way their actions get judged.

 

Clearly you are having difficulty comprehending other viewpoints. Would I be "upset" if I got early access to the game? No. But I do honestly believe it would have been the wrong decision, and a weird one to boot, on something this high profile. This is not some crappy spaceflight game for the PS Vita, this is a spiritial successor to Baldur's Gate that will appeal to people who have never even heard of and want no part of Kickstarter.

 

I don't think it is smart marketing to elevate Kickstarter backers over the general populace. In fact, the reality is, Kickstarter backers ceased to be a revenue stream once their pledges were collected. Now, they have to appeal to the general populace. I think that Pillars of Eternity is woefully under-advertised but other than that I think their decisions are savvy. So I'm not sure "upset" is the right word but I think a headstart release would have worked against them, and it's not one I would have necessarily appreciated, no.

 

Again, I look at this holistically, not individually. What is best for Obsidian? What is best for Obsidian is to maximize revenue and profit. And, actually, that works for me individually too because Obsidian's success means more future Obsidian products for me as a fan of Obsidian.

 

Also, your decision not to get into a semantics debate with me over the meaning and use of entitled is a wise one, because you will lose the argument.

 

 

Stop trying to bait a derail dude - I told you I'm not a troll I'm a pissed off backer.

 

And the jury is in on putting backers before the general public - it gets you more backers - SC has proven it.

 

Whether or not Star Citizen is actually a good game or the backers get what they thought they were getting isn't the argument - its how they treat the people who fund them. Obsidian partnered with a publisher half way through going against what they had said in their initial KS and most of us gave them slack for that but I can't help but notice how much their interaction with their fans changed after getting the publisher.

 

Obsidian just never learned, because whats best for Obsidian is lots of passionate fans and other than the same repeating names in this thread I don't see evidence of lots of happy fans. Just like you're seeing the same names repeating for being unhappy - there are a lot of fans just not even here. Even just hanging out - the forums are patchy and sparse and the interaction is practically seeing its most amount of life today because of what people are finding out.

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I imagine there are a lot of backers who never even knew this site was here are now looking through their emails wondering where their keys are to play the game that the media is playing.

 

Then they'd be idiots. It's standard practice for the media to get a game days before the official release for review purposes. And nowhere that I can recall did Obs ever promise to backers that they'd get the game before the official launch date. Anyone looking for keys so they can play before March 26 is delusional.

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Maybe Paradox needs to do something. They will probably be in their office in 4-5 hours or so.

"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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Maybe the Kickstarter keys are late due to an iron shortage...

We should send a party to explore the luskan mines, i heard that is where obsidian gets their iron.

Edited by Vardia
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I would prefer that Kaelyn show up and point out that our hurt feelings over the release are insignificant compared to the suffering of those condemned to the Wall of the Faithless.
 

Edited by Arouet
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Now for your neighboorhood-friendly reminder that if the game is great noone is going to give a **** about what happened two days before release.

Even if the game sucks, no one is going to remember :)

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word.

 

A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments.

 

That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

 

Not going to get into a language argument on the word entitled (it has multiple meanings and different countries/societies will use it differently)

 

I know Obsidian is going no where - but by voicing my nonacceptance of their behavior hopefully in the future they will either learn or ignore it - if they're better people they will learn if they don't then thats their consequences to bare.

 

Lets all be completely honest here - not one person here would have been upset in any way shape or form getting their KS editions early. Am I right? is there anyone who would have turned around and yelled at Obsidian for not holding it back and releasing it at the scheduled date?

 

But conversely there are people who are upset at finding out their backer status wasn't important enough to Obsidian for them to put them first above media. These people are allowed to feel slighted and disrespected and are allowed to voice their feelings on the matter. If Obsidian gave a crap about their backers they'll listen if they don't they wont either way their actions get judged.

 

Clearly you are having difficulty comprehending other viewpoints. Would I be "upset" if I got early access to the game? No. But I do honestly believe it would have been the wrong decision, and a weird one to boot, on something this high profile. This is not some crappy spaceflight game for the PS Vita, this is a spiritial successor to Baldur's Gate that will appeal to people who have never even heard of and want no part of Kickstarter.

 

I don't think it is smart marketing to elevate Kickstarter backers over the general populace. In fact, the reality is, Kickstarter backers ceased to be a revenue stream once their pledges were collected. Now, they have to appeal to the general populace. I think that Pillars of Eternity is woefully under-advertised but other than that I think their decisions are savvy. So I'm not sure "upset" is the right word but I think a headstart release would have worked against them, and it's not one I would have necessarily appreciated, no.

 

Again, I look at this holistically, not individually. What is best for Obsidian? What is best for Obsidian is to maximize revenue and profit. And, actually, that works for me individually too because Obsidian's success means more future Obsidian products for me as a fan of Obsidian.

 

Also, your decision not to get into a semantics debate with me over the meaning and use of entitled is a wise one, because you will lose the argument.

 

 

Stop trying to bait a derail dude - I told you I'm not a troll I'm a pissed off backer.

 

And the jury is in on putting backers before the general public - it gets you more backers - SC has proven it.

 

Whether or not Star Citizen is actually a good game or the backers get what they thought they were getting isn't the argument - its how they treat the people who fund them. Obsidian partnered with a publisher half way through going against what they had said in their initial KS and most of us gave them slack for that but I can't help but notice how much their interaction with their fans changed after getting the publisher.

 

Obsidian just never learned, because whats best for Obsidian is lots of passionate fans and other than the same repeating names in this thread I don't see evidence of lots of happy fans. Just like you're seeing the same names repeating for being unhappy - there are a lot of fans just not even here. Even just hanging out - the forums are patchy and sparse and the interaction is practically seeing its most amount of life today because of what people are finding out.

 

 

Bait a derail? What in the holy hell are you talking about? You posited a question and I answered it with my perspective on early keys and why I think giving them only to reviewers is the right course of action. How is that "baiting a detail"? I'm answering your question.

 

And I don't think you're a troll at all. I think you're genuine, but I think you're oblivious, selfish, and can't see past your own foot-stomping, puerile sense of entitlement. And possibly additionally a shill for Chris Roberts since you keep bringing that project up for some reason. But I absolutely don't think you're a troll.

 

I'd probably have more respect for you if you were posting ironically.

 

Sorry for the potshot, but you are really annoying.

Edited by RHelg224
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I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word.

 

A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments.

 

That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

 

Not going to get into a language argument on the word entitled (it has multiple meanings and different countries/societies will use it differently)

 

I know Obsidian is going no where - but by voicing my nonacceptance of their behavior hopefully in the future they will either learn or ignore it - if they're better people they will learn if they don't then thats their consequences to bare.

 

Lets all be completely honest here - not one person here would have been upset in any way shape or form getting their KS editions early. Am I right? is there anyone who would have turned around and yelled at Obsidian for not holding it back and releasing it at the scheduled date?

 

But conversely there are people who are upset at finding out their backer status wasn't important enough to Obsidian for them to put them first above media. These people are allowed to feel slighted and disrespected and are allowed to voice their feelings on the matter. If Obsidian gave a crap about their backers they'll listen if they don't they wont either way their actions get judged.

 

Clearly you are having difficulty comprehending other viewpoints. Would I be "upset" if I got early access to the game? No. But I do honestly believe it would have been the wrong decision, and a weird one to boot, on something this high profile. This is not some crappy spaceflight game for the PS Vita, this is a spiritial successor to Baldur's Gate that will appeal to people who have never even heard of and want no part of Kickstarter.

 

I don't think it is smart marketing to elevate Kickstarter backers over the general populace. In fact, the reality is, Kickstarter backers ceased to be a revenue stream once their pledges were collected. Now, they have to appeal to the general populace. I think that Pillars of Eternity is woefully under-advertised but other than that I think their decisions are savvy. So I'm not sure "upset" is the right word but I think a headstart release would have worked against them, and it's not one I would have necessarily appreciated, no.

 

Again, I look at this holistically, not individually. What is best for Obsidian? What is best for Obsidian is to maximize revenue and profit. And, actually, that works for me individually too because Obsidian's success means more future Obsidian products for me as a fan of Obsidian.

 

Also, your decision not to get into a semantics debate with me over the meaning and use of entitled is a wise one, because you will lose the argument.

 

 

Stop trying to bait a derail dude - I told you I'm not a troll I'm a pissed off backer.

 

And the jury is in on putting backers before the general public - it gets you more backers - SC has proven it.

 

Whether or not Star Citizen is actually a good game or the backers get what they thought they were getting isn't the argument - its how they treat the people who fund them. Obsidian partnered with a publisher half way through going against what they had said in their initial KS and most of us gave them slack for that but I can't help but notice how much their interaction with their fans changed after getting the publisher.

 

Obsidian just never learned, because whats best for Obsidian is lots of passionate fans and other than the same repeating names in this thread I don't see evidence of lots of happy fans. Just like you're seeing the same names repeating for being unhappy - there are a lot of fans just not even here. Even just hanging out - the forums are patchy and sparse and the interaction is practically seeing its most amount of life today because of what people are finding out.

 

 

Why not go do something else to get your mind off the subject (hobby, sports, see some friends, etc.) ? In the grand scheme of things, this waiting period is some insignificant stuff. Getting a key is not some crucial time-bomb that needs to be defused *now*. All you're doing now is wasting time in your life on whining that amounts to absolutely nothing positive, for you or anyone else.

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Obsidian just never learned, because whats best for Obsidian is lots of passionate fans and other than the same repeating names in this thread I don't see evidence of lots of happy fans.

 

 

Jesus, have you even ever been to the RSI forums? (And I guarantee my citizen # is higher than yours...) :no:

 

Your complete lack of self-awareness is almost awe-inspiring....

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inXile absolutely mismanaged many things, including communication.

At a time when Double Fine used up all their funding before the game was even halfway done, Wasteland 2 was being touched up because, even though they finished the game, they had excess funds left.

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I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word.

 

A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments.

 

That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

 

Not going to get into a language argument on the word entitled (it has multiple meanings and different countries/societies will use it differently)

 

I know Obsidian is going no where - but by voicing my nonacceptance of their behavior hopefully in the future they will either learn or ignore it - if they're better people they will learn if they don't then thats their consequences to bare.

 

Lets all be completely honest here - not one person here would have been upset in any way shape or form getting their KS editions early. Am I right? is there anyone who would have turned around and yelled at Obsidian for not holding it back and releasing it at the scheduled date?

 

But conversely there are people who are upset at finding out their backer status wasn't important enough to Obsidian for them to put them first above media. These people are allowed to feel slighted and disrespected and are allowed to voice their feelings on the matter. If Obsidian gave a crap about their backers they'll listen if they don't they wont either way their actions get judged.

 

Clearly you are having difficulty comprehending other viewpoints. Would I be "upset" if I got early access to the game? No. But I do honestly believe it would have been the wrong decision, and a weird one to boot, on something this high profile. This is not some crappy spaceflight game for the PS Vita, this is a spiritial successor to Baldur's Gate that will appeal to people who have never even heard of and want no part of Kickstarter.

 

I don't think it is smart marketing to elevate Kickstarter backers over the general populace. In fact, the reality is, Kickstarter backers ceased to be a revenue stream once their pledges were collected. Now, they have to appeal to the general populace. I think that Pillars of Eternity is woefully under-advertised but other than that I think their decisions are savvy. So I'm not sure "upset" is the right word but I think a headstart release would have worked against them, and it's not one I would have necessarily appreciated, no.

 

Again, I look at this holistically, not individually. What is best for Obsidian? What is best for Obsidian is to maximize revenue and profit. And, actually, that works for me individually too because Obsidian's success means more future Obsidian products for me as a fan of Obsidian.

 

Also, your decision not to get into a semantics debate with me over the meaning and use of entitled is a wise one, because you will lose the argument.

 

 

Stop trying to bait a derail dude - I told you I'm not a troll I'm a pissed off backer.

 

And the jury is in on putting backers before the general public - it gets you more backers - SC has proven it.

 

Whether or not Star Citizen is actually a good game or the backers get what they thought they were getting isn't the argument - its how they treat the people who fund them. Obsidian partnered with a publisher half way through going against what they had said in their initial KS and most of us gave them slack for that but I can't help but notice how much their interaction with their fans changed after getting the publisher.

 

Obsidian just never learned, because whats best for Obsidian is lots of passionate fans and other than the same repeating names in this thread I don't see evidence of lots of happy fans. Just like you're seeing the same names repeating for being unhappy - there are a lot of fans just not even here. Even just hanging out - the forums are patchy and sparse and the interaction is practically seeing its most amount of life today because of what people are finding out.

 

 

Why not go do something else to get your mind off the subject (hobby, sports, see some friends, etc.) ? In the grand scheme of things, this waiting period is some insignificant stuff. Getting a key is not some crucial time-bomb that needs to be defused *now*.

 

But it's a matter of respect! And if he doesn't talk about R E S P E C T we'll never know what it means to him.

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inXile absolutely mismanaged many things, including communication.

At a time when Double Fine used up all their funding before the game was even halfway done, Wasteland 2 was being touched up because, even though they finished the game, they had excess funds left.

 

I'm not saying inXile is even close to the worst or anything. Just that they did mismanage a couple of things in my opinion. I have some specific gripes about the extra keys and how they did their digital release, but I don't want to derail - doesn't belong here. All in all, I'm happy with their release.

 

I did kickstart Broken Age and yeah they did a poop.

 

Hell, I don't even know what happened with some of the projects I kickstarted. Last update I got on SpaceVenture was one month ago and that was to let everyone know that Gary Owens (one of the iconic voice actors) had passed away.

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inXile absolutely mismanaged many things, including communication.

At a time when Double Fine used up all their funding before the game was even halfway done, Wasteland 2 was being touched up because, even though they finished the game, they had excess funds left.

 

I'm not saying inXile is even close to the worst or anything. Just that they did mismanage a couple of things in my opinion. I have some specific gripes about the extra keys and how they did their digital release, but I don't want to derail - doesn't belong here. All in all, I'm happy with their release.

 

I did kickstart Broken Age and yeah they did a poop.

 

Hell, I don't even know what happened with some of the projects I kickstarted. Last update I got on SpaceVenture was one month ago and that was to let everyone know that Gary Owens (one of the iconic voice actors) had passed away.

 

Gary Owens died, aww man he was the Voice in the 70's LOL!!!  I need to check up on that one too (space venture)

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inXile absolutely mismanaged many things, including communication.

At a time when Double Fine used up all their funding before the game was even halfway done, Wasteland 2 was being touched up because, even though they finished the game, they had excess funds left.

 

I'm not saying inXile is even close to the worst or anything. Just that they did mismanage a couple of things in my opinion. I have some specific gripes about the extra keys and how they did their digital release, but I don't want to derail - doesn't belong here. All in all, I'm happy with their release.

 

I did kickstart Broken Age and yeah they did a poop.

 

Hell, I don't even know what happened with some of the projects I kickstarted. Last update I got on SpaceVenture was one month ago and that was to let everyone know that Gary Owens (one of the iconic voice actors) had passed away.

 

Gary Owens died, aww man he was the Voice in the 70's LOL!!!  I need to check up on that one too (space venture)

 

Yep. :(

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