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So on a different topic, has there been any confirmation that the game will come with the Cookbook? 

A dev told me "Never doubt Tim Cain; as the taste tester for every recipe in the cookbook, they are delicious!"

 

So I'm assuming so.

 

Delish

Now lets wait and see 

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Maybe I'm just used to the "crowdfunding 2.0" mindset while Obsidian is still stuck in the "crowdfunding 1.0" mindset. While in the latter the backer is just seen as a substitute for a publisher and for funding in the former the backer is a trusted stakeholder who is integrated in the whole development process. It's hard to describe but it's a lot about communication and how you speak with backers. 

 

*Looks at 91 project updates and almost a year of BB save files*

 

I literally have no idea what you're saying right now.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I'm not angry. It's like when a toddler starts throwing a tantrum because you refuse to buy them the chocolate cereal; there's no point in getting angry. I'm baffled and saddened that Obsidian has to put up with these kinds of unreasonable demands, and a little amazed at how well they've dealt with all this Backer Drama. Nobody ever said you'd get an early media copy, but you want one anyway because you're a backer and you are *entitled* to it.

 

Pffft.

 

 

You do know the word entitled is not actually a dirty word - I mean sure people are spending a huge amount of time actually trying to make it one but its a very normal applicable word.

 

People are upset - whether or not you think it is justifiable or not. Obsidian will have to deal with that and as I said word of mouth counts, as does their treatment of backers.

 

What they said on their KS

 

We have wanted to go back to our roots and create an epic PC role-playing game adventure for years. But, it's been almost impossible to get funding through traditional methods for a game like this. The great thing about Kickstarter is that we can go directly to the people who love to play RPGs as much as we love to make them. Plus, we don’t have to make compromises with a publisher. We make the development decisions, we market the game, and we don't have to answer to anyone but you – our fans.

Our relationship with you can be even closer with Kickstarter. We can be more transparent with development and give you an inside look to what goes on day-to-day with the programmers, artists, and designers of Project Eternity. We want to give you a behind the scenes look at the game's development, and we have fun stuff planned like developer blogs, web broadcasts, dev chats, and much, much more.

 

Their actions however said something else entirely.

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I've been working under the theory that Obsidians been highly engaged with us this whole time, has listened to much of what we had to say, has provided us with detailed information and have as a whole been exceptional at the whole deal, with the caveat of entirely expected delays and difficulties due to various things outside of their normal business (like physical goods, etc.)

Guess I was dead wrong!

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What it is is that they made a decision out of best intentions, one which is not significantly deviating from the norm of many publisher AND kickstarted games. If you disagree and are disappointed, OK, I can understand that. I think it's baseless to try and argue that this is somehow quite clearly a calculated show of disrespect and distrust.

 

That was never the intention. There is a different between "feeling disrespected" and "thinking that you are disrepected on purpose". I do think Obsidian does at least most of their stuff with the best intentions. That doesn't mean I agree with the thinking pattern, the effectiveness or the outcome. That's the point. I think that especially the communication with backers is poorly handled here, no matter the actual reasons. That's what I see and experience here and I give them my feedback. It just baffles me that apparently so many people here think that all negative feedback is forbidden and we should all just cheer. Some of us are disappointed and some of us actually want Obsidian to reconsider their bahaviour towards backers. That's about it.

 

 

 

@Bryy

And again that passive-aggressive behaviour. You should really improve on that...

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I'm not angry. It's like when a toddler starts throwing a tantrum because you refuse to buy them the chocolate cereal; there's no point in getting angry. I'm baffled and saddened that Obsidian has to put up with these kinds of unreasonable demands, and a little amazed at how well they've dealt with all this Backer Drama. Nobody ever said you'd get an early media copy, but you want one anyway because you're a backer and you are *entitled* to it.

 

Pffft.

 

 

You do know the word entitled is not actually a dirty word - I mean sure people are spending a huge amount of time actually trying to make it one but its a very normal applicable word.

 

People are upset - whether or not you think it is justifiable or not. Obsidian will have to deal with that and as I said word of mouth counts, as does their treatment of backers.

The unspoken statement after "entitled" would be "for literally no reason of any sort but simply because". I assumed you'd know that based on common usage and context.

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Actually by not releasing it to its backers and fans first - it shows they have no confidence in the game.

 

Seriously ? Extrapolate much ? Tomorrow if it rains, is it because Obsidian wanted to ruin your day ?

 

MmZfSIH.jpg

Edited by atn
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So on a different topic, has there been any confirmation that the game will come with the Cookbook? 

A dev told me "Never doubt Tim Cain; as the taste tester for every recipe in the cookbook, they are delicious!"

 

So I'm assuming so.

 

Delish

Now lets wait and see 

 

 

Only if you backed for it. Look it up in the tiers description.

 

 

@atn

Very mature. And it adds so much to the discussion...

Edited by LordCrash
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What it is is that they made a decision out of best intentions, one which is not significantly deviating from the norm of many publisher AND kickstarted games. If you disagree and are disappointed, OK, I can understand that. I think it's baseless to try and argue that this is somehow quite clearly a calculated show of disrespect and distrust.

 

Granted it's not like they sat there thinking how can they screw over their backers.

 

But it does show that we meant so little to them that we were just some faceless mob who would be happy with being shoved aside and told "yeah, no, you guys did your bit you gave us the money now sod off and wait your turn"

 

How can anyone in the industry still to this day after everything that is changing not pick up on why you put fans first.

 

 

Yep, they sat around a table and thought "those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

Nothing I say is going to convince you so I'm done here, but people reading this thread can make their own minds up as to whether this situation really offends them. 

 

*shrug* I backed the game because I wanted to see it made and I wanted the promised goodies. I got both. If I expected a lot more than what I was promised, I'm sure I'd have been disappointed, too.

 

now in my signature..

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Obsidian wrote:
 

​"those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

 

 Now we know what's going on...

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What it is is that they made a decision out of best intentions, one which is not significantly deviating from the norm of many publisher AND kickstarted games. If you disagree and are disappointed, OK, I can understand that. I think it's baseless to try and argue that this is somehow quite clearly a calculated show of disrespect and distrust.

 

Granted it's not like they sat there thinking how can they screw over their backers.

 

But it does show that we meant so little to them that we were just some faceless mob who would be happy with being shoved aside and told "yeah, no, you guys did your bit you gave us the money now sod off and wait your turn"

 

How can anyone in the industry still to this day after everything that is changing not pick up on why you put fans first.

 

 

Yep, they sat around a table and thought "those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

Nothing I say is going to convince you so I'm done here, but people reading this thread can make their own minds up as to whether this situation really offends them. 

 

*shrug* I backed the game because I wanted to see it made and I wanted the promised goodies. I got both. If I expected a lot more than what I was promised, I'm sure I'd have been disappointed, too.

 

Oh wow :) Thank you for confirming that my signed collectors edition will arrive at my home in europe on the 26th :)

 

But jokes aside, things happen, people get disappointed by things and post things. So deal with things but stay friendly.

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What it is is that they made a decision out of best intentions, one which is not significantly deviating from the norm of many publisher AND kickstarted games. If you disagree and are disappointed, OK, I can understand that. I think it's baseless to try and argue that this is somehow quite clearly a calculated show of disrespect and distrust.

 

Granted it's not like they sat there thinking how can they screw over their backers.

 

But it does show that we meant so little to them that we were just some faceless mob who would be happy with being shoved aside and told "yeah, no, you guys did your bit you gave us the money now sod off and wait your turn"

 

How can anyone in the industry still to this day after everything that is changing not pick up on why you put fans first.

 

 

Yep, they sat around a table and thought "those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

Nothing I say is going to convince you so I'm done here, but people reading this thread can make their own minds up as to whether this situation really offends them. 

 

*shrug* I backed the game because I wanted to see it made and I wanted the promised goodies. I got both. If I expected a lot more than what I was promised, I'm sure I'd have been disappointed, too.

 

now in my signature..

 

 

You should refering that correctly to Tigranes...it's not something Obsidian actually said. ;)

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I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word.

 

A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments.

 

That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

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So on a different topic, has there been any confirmation that the game will come with the Cookbook? 

A dev told me "Never doubt Tim Cain; as the taste tester for every recipe in the cookbook, they are delicious!"

 

So I'm assuming so.

 

Delish

Now lets wait and see 

 

 

Only if you backed for it. Look it up in the tiers description.

 

 

@atn

Very mature. And it adds so much to the discussion...

 

It was on the description for the 20$ early backer so i guess so ;)

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Yep, they sat around a table and thought "those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" 

 

Nothing I say is going to convince you so I'm done here, but people reading this thread can make their own minds up as to whether this situation really offends them. 

 

*shrug* I backed the game because I wanted to see it made and I wanted the promised goodies. I got both. If I expected a lot more than what I was promised, I'm sure I'd have been disappointed, too.

 

 

I backed them because I wanted to help the guys who made Fallout in the hopes that the next Fallout game included them and gave them more freedom and confidence.

 

I'm not saying I hate them or I'll hate this game.

 

I backed my level because I really wanted to show them how much faith I had in them - but as the weeks and months trudged on I saw no engagement with the backers the beta was a vertical slice that never changed.

 

Meanwhile each week CIG with Star Citizen was interacting with their community making videos - doing regular live stream Q&A - showing off their work and the people who worked on the game - engaging with the player base. Thats why I boosted my pledge with Star Citizen to 2 grand without an issue - they respected me I responded in kind.

 

Obsidian ignores that - puts out a short video every now and then - had no drive to entice people here to the forums to get excited about the game no wonder they panicked and thought they would have needed a Media release to pick up backers. When all they really needed to do was engage with the fans, sure its an innocent mistake but its a pretty disrespectful one.

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 It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

 

And that's wrong again. There is no backlash about that. There is a backlash about Obsidian not letting the backers play the game (earlier) as well.

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Would have been nice to have some more details on when the keys would be released. I think people would be a bit more chilled with a little more communication. The backer updates went from regular to practically non-existent. I'm not mad just nervous there's some issue with the keys. If my key doesn't arrive PoE will have to wait cause I'll be playing DA:I DLC.

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 It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

 

And that's wrong again. There is no backlash about that. There is a backlash about Obsidian not letting the backers play the game (earlier) as well.

 

It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies only to reviewers.

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 It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

 

And that's wrong again. There is no backlash about that. There is a backlash about Obsidian not letting the backers play the game (earlier) as well.

 

The copy that reviewers/streamers got was not the finished product. You'd rather have what they got than the finished product?

 

Help me understand why?

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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 It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.

 

And that's wrong again. There is no backlash about that. There is a backlash about Obsidian not letting the backers play the game (earlier) as well.

 

The copy that reviewers/streamers got was not the finished product. You'd rather have what they got than the finished product?

 

Help me understand why?

 

It quite looks like the finished product, they are not allowed to go past act I on stream/vids, but it is in there and they can play to the end before release day is what i assume there.

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