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I remember the subject matter in the opening sequence of BG II, but never found it over the line, even when I got the quest to go with the Paladins to kill the vampires, it was not over the line. 

 

But POE, there are sequences that, IMHO, were purposely harsh. I know this stuff happens, it's still happening, just watch the news, but do we really need to drag it into our entertainment?

Yes, for two reasons. First, much of the appeal of the BG series and PoE and similar games is that they're version of our world where the laws of nature are somewhat different, but human beings (and other creatures of similar intelligence) are more or less the same. They're not significantly darker, but nor are they lighter so there must be some nastiness somewhere along the lines of what you hear on the news, but modified to account for the different laws of nature. Second, the premise of all of these games is that you are the Adventurer. You travel to dangerous places where mere mortals (not armed with the all-powerful Save-Load spell) fear to tread, you do battle with various critters and you foil the plans of various evildoers. The very nature of this premise requires you to encounter unpleasantness at a much higher rate than the typical dweller of either our world or the worlds of the games.

 

I'm sure that the lack of profanity would not have taken away from any of that, I doubt someone who is playing the game would be thinking - "if only there was more profanity in this game, I would have so much more fun then."

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I'm absolutely in favour of utilising natural language in any RP context. That means both not overdoing the profanity, neither cutting it short with ridiculous euphemisms that nobody would use in any life real or fictious. I don't care for "fark you", "frigging orcs," or "a-holes" or "berks". 

Berk is a real word, and used regularly in certain places (which given that you're using 'favour' and 'utilising,' you've made me sad).  That said I agree, natural language (even if anachronistic) flows a lot better than a dime-store's worth of purple prose dribbling from the lips of drunk renaissance faire hacks.  

 

But I've seen a fair bit of profanity just in BB vids, to the point that if someone found it immersion breaking and upsetting in gangland Berlin slums, better back away from this game right now. 

 

 

 

You guys know that it's rhyminmg slang, right?

 

Berk --> Berkeley/Berkshire Hunt --> Oh, just some word that rhymes with Hunt. Stunt or something. Very cunning!

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Their are always going to be a way to argue each point on this issue, but it does not change the fact that some people just don't want to see it or hear it, but at the same time still want to play masterpiece games like POE, it comes down to the decisions the dev's make into the level of content, thus the ESRB system to mark those decisions. I'm speculating those decisions are based upon what would make the game the most successful.

 

I would love to play Dragon Age, but just can't stomach all the excessive blood splatter and gore, but I'm sure EA saw it as a great selling point, the sales of that franchise may have proven them right. 

 

 

Thank you, you just proved my point: you have no idea what "immersion" or "immersion-breaking" means. You think it means "something I don't like", when it actually has nothing to do with that. But yeah, moving on...

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First of all, this game looks awesome. I really, really, really, want to give Obsidian my money for this game. It's made me start a new game of Baldur's Gate 2 just to scratch the isometric rpg itch I've been having recently.

 

Now, I'm probably in the minority asking about this, but it's a concern that will determine whether or not I'll buy this game.

 

So: based on the Mature ESRB, how prevalent is the (stronger) profanity in this game?

 

The ESRB summary says:

 

 

The word “f**k” appears in dialogue.

 

 So, is that one instance? Is there only one dialogue where it appears? How often is it used? I guess we won't really know until the full game is out. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate more "mature" writing and themes. I don't mind "lore based profanity". But I recently bought Shadowrun:Dragonfall, and the (more explicit) profanity occurred so often that it was immersion breaking and annoying, and unfortunately Steam doesn't offer refunds. However, I recently learned that GOG offers refunds, so I can certainly try it out.

 

Really? You couldn't enjoy Dragonfall because the characters spoke like actual humans in a ****ty situation? I can't even.

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There are different issues, but the one about it 'breaking immersion' has definitely happened to me before.

 

I know there are some that defend the show, Deadwood (HBO), but it was soooo overdone that I just couldn't get past the distraction.  At one point a character says,

"K, move him onto the table ON THREE.  Ready?  One, Two, F***ing, Three".  

 

I bust out laughing.  And then she did it again when they took him off the table.  I was like, you know you're actually counting to four, right?

It should have been like, "One, Two, F***ing-- hey you dropped him!"

 

But then I turn around and watch something like "The Wire", which has plenty of cussing but it was all totally in context (for the most part).  So for me, I'm not so much offended by swearing; just bad writing.  heh

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Their are always going to be a way to argue each point on this issue, but it does not change the fact that some people just don't want to see it or hear it, but at the same time still want to play masterpiece games like POE, it comes down to the decisions the dev's make into the level of content, thus the ESRB system to mark those decisions. I'm speculating those decisions are based upon what would make the game the most successful.

 

I would love to play Dragon Age, but just can't stomach all the excessive blood splatter and gore, but I'm sure EA saw it as a great selling point, the sales of that franchise may have proven them right.

Thank you, you just proved my point: you have no idea what "immersion" or "immersion-breaking" means. You think it means "something I don't like", when it actually has nothing to do with that. But yeah, moving on...

I'm not convinced you even know what your point is, so it's probably best that we do move on.

 

But let me say this, breaking the Immersion is the act of throwing something into the mix that doesn't belong there, and I don't think the people of that era used that manner of profanity, although I'm sure profanity was present in that era in some form.

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To be honest, i barely noticed simple profanities like the F bomb words, they appeared a few times but they felt there as in the right place and the dialog would feel not the same without them, i.e. artificial. The do use other methods of word play and vocabulary that may also be offensive but those are not your average street slang phrases :D

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Some people mentioned Shadowrun: Dragonfall.   I played that game (and enjoyed it) but it was laced with profanity.  It wasn't just one or two characters, but quite a few of them did it.  The fact that they included it wasn't surprising or unexpected, but in certain instances I believe it was highly overdone.  Once the effect is there why just keep piling it on?   It's like they had a minimum number of words to write and added some in there to get the count up.    Reminds me of how I'd add useless sentences (but quite elaborate ones) in reports to help me get to the required words.

 

Personally, I thought Fallout had the best method of just installing the language filter and letting the player choose whether or not to see all that.   I have my doubts that it was that complicated and it seemed to satisfy everyone.   I'm not sure why Obsidian couldn't have done that in this instance.

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Personally, don't really have a problem with profanity in general (I tend to curse a little bit myself), and not really big on the whole immersion/roleplay thing (im pretty flexible about it). Although I will say that whenever I'm reading fantasy books that suddenly start using profanity (even sparingly) it throws me a little until I get used to it. I don't know - sure its realistic and it works, but most of my favorite books just don't include that. Sure it might say "Jack cursed to himself and tried to think of a way out" but it doesn't say " 'S***!, I don't know what to do!' ". Idk, just seems like it drops the writing quality a little bit. Nothing major - I usually get used to it if its done right, and I'm sure I won't have a problem with it given the dark and grim nature of PoE, but I can understand where these guys are coming from (just a little bit...). Although I wouldn't mod it out personally - I just accept it as the writer's/developer's vision for the book/game.

Edited by Hellraiser789

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I remember playing the original Neverwinter Nights RPG, if you went into the game options there was a "violence slider" slide the bar to the right, and there was a full blood and guts spray, slide the bar to the left, no blood and guts spray, it was very handy to maximize your player base.

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I remember playing the original Neverwinter Nights RPG, if you went into the game options there was a "violence slider" slide the bar to the right, and there was a full blood and guts spray, slide the bar to the left, no blood and guts spray, it was very handy to maximize your player base.

 

Yeah that kind of thing is actually fairly common, I think, or at least not unheard of. Or like a blood and gore toggle - I've seen that before (of course I just leave the gore on but thats just me  :devil: ) Although, given how much extra animations and graphics that might (?) have taken, they probably considered it not worth it, especially considering the setting of the game and its grim and dark nature. 

Edited by Hellraiser789

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I personally would prefer no profanity, however the world of Pillars of Eternity is much darker it seems than the world of Faerûn. My impression is that obsidian maybe added a dash of game of thrones to it, if not an excessive amount. Also on the old DnD games Wizards of the Coast were the owners so they had the say of what goes in and what doesn't so they were also cleaning it up, since they were protecting their franchise. Now obsidian owns it and they are doing whatever they want basically.

 

It would be nice to have a profanity drop-down in the options though which can allow Full/Masked/Fantasy/None as options. With fantasy being my personal preference.

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I personally would prefer no profanity, however the world of Pillars of Eternity is much darker it seems than the world of Faerûn. My impression is that obsidian maybe added a dash of game of thrones to it, if not an excessive amount. Also on the old DnD games Wizards of the Coast were the owners so they had the say of what goes in and what doesn't so they were also cleaning it up, since they were protecting their franchise. Now obsidian owns it and they are doing whatever they want basically.

 

It would be nice to have a profanity drop-down in the options though which can allow Full/Masked/Fantasy/None as options. With fantasy being my personal preference.

Yes, that would've been a very desirable option to have had in POE

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I personally would prefer no profanity, however the world of Pillars of Eternity is much darker it seems than the world of Faerûn. My impression is that obsidian maybe added a dash of game of thrones to it, if not an excessive amount. Also on the old DnD games Wizards of the Coast were the owners so they had the say of what goes in and what doesn't so they were also cleaning it up, since they were protecting their franchise. Now obsidian owns it and they are doing whatever they want basically.

 

It would be nice to have a profanity drop-down in the options though which can allow Full/Masked/Fantasy/None as options. With fantasy being my personal preference.

 

Could we have also Extra and Crazy options for those of us who want game to be bit more fun?

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I personally would prefer no profanity, however the world of Pillars of Eternity is much darker it seems than the world of Faerûn. My impression is that obsidian maybe added a dash of game of thrones to it, if not an excessive amount. Also on the old DnD games Wizards of the Coast were the owners so they had the say of what goes in and what doesn't so they were also cleaning it up, since they were protecting their franchise. Now obsidian owns it and they are doing whatever they want basically.

 

It would be nice to have a profanity drop-down in the options though which can allow Full/Masked/Fantasy/None as options. With fantasy being my personal preference.

Could we have also Extra and Crazy options for those of us who want game to be bit more fun?

Oh please, LoL! If it's not enough as it already is, you've got some serious issues.

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I remember playing the original Neverwinter Nights RPG, if you went into the game options there was a "violence slider" slide the bar to the right, and there was a full blood and guts spray, slide the bar to the left, no blood and guts spray, it was very handy to maximize your player base.

 

Yeah that kind of thing is actually fairly common, I think, or at least not unheard of. Or like a blood and gore toggle - I've seen that before (of course I just leave the gore on but thats just me  :devil: ) Although, given how much extra animations and graphics that might (?) have taken, they probably considered it not worth it, especially considering the setting of the game and its grim and dark nature. 

 

There is a toggle for gibs in the options menu, though. You can turn off the spray of blood and gore on death if you feel like it.

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I remember playing the original Neverwinter Nights RPG, if you went into the game options there was a "violence slider" slide the bar to the right, and there was a full blood and guts spray, slide the bar to the left, no blood and guts spray, it was very handy to maximize your player base.

 

Yeah that kind of thing is actually fairly common, I think, or at least not unheard of. Or like a blood and gore toggle - I've seen that before (of course I just leave the gore on but thats just me  :devil: ) Although, given how much extra animations and graphics that might (?) have taken, they probably considered it not worth it, especially considering the setting of the game and its grim and dark nature. 

 

There is a toggle for gibs in the options menu, though. You can turn off the spray of blood and gore on death if you feel like it.

 

 

Oops. Didnt know that. Either way, won't be using it though, since that stuff doesnt bother me one bit  :no:

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I remember playing the original Neverwinter Nights RPG, if you went into the game options there was a "violence slider" slide the bar to the right, and there was a full blood and guts spray, slide the bar to the left, no blood and guts spray, it was very handy to maximize your player base.

 

Yeah that kind of thing is actually fairly common, I think, or at least not unheard of. Or like a blood and gore toggle - I've seen that before (of course I just leave the gore on but thats just me  :devil: ) Although, given how much extra animations and graphics that might (?) have taken, they probably considered it not worth it, especially considering the setting of the game and its grim and dark nature. 

 

There is a toggle for gibs in the options menu, though. You can turn off the spray of blood and gore on death if you feel like it.

 

 

Oops. Didnt know that. Either way, won't be using it though, since that stuff doesnt bother me one bit  :no:

 

I only know because I checked in case there was a "blood and gore" option that I need to turn on. :)

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I personally would prefer no profanity, however the world of Pillars of Eternity is much darker it seems than the world of Faerûn. My impression is that obsidian maybe added a dash of game of thrones to it, if not an excessive amount. Also on the old DnD games Wizards of the Coast were the owners so they had the say of what goes in and what doesn't so they were also cleaning it up, since they were protecting their franchise. Now obsidian owns it and they are doing whatever they want basically.

 

It would be nice to have a profanity drop-down in the options though which can allow Full/Masked/Fantasy/None as options. With fantasy being my personal preference.

Could we have also Extra and Crazy options for those of us who want game to be bit more fun?
Oh please, LoL! If it's not enough as it already is, you've got some serious issues.
Why is it that people who want to hear profanity evey two words have serious issues, but people too delicate to hear even one word are totally fine? I mean, neither works in real life. You can choose not to play a game with profanity, but what do you do when you hear it from a sibling, friend, colleague?

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I personally would prefer no profanity, however the world of Pillars of Eternity is much darker it seems than the world of Faerûn. My impression is that obsidian maybe added a dash of game of thrones to it, if not an excessive amount. Also on the old DnD games Wizards of the Coast were the owners so they had the say of what goes in and what doesn't so they were also cleaning it up, since they were protecting their franchise. Now obsidian owns it and they are doing whatever they want basically.

 

It would be nice to have a profanity drop-down in the options though which can allow Full/Masked/Fantasy/None as options. With fantasy being my personal preference.

Could we have also Extra and Crazy options for those of us who want game to be bit more fun?
Oh please, LoL! If it's not enough as it already is, you've got some serious issues.
Why is it that people who want to hear profanity evey two words have serious issues, but people too delicate to hear even one word are totally fine? I mean, neither works in real life. You can choose not to play a game with profanity, but what do you do when you hear it from a sibling, friend, colleague?

 

On the bus? Standing on a street corner? In the line at the bank? Profanity is a fact of life--because real life for adults is, get this, rated mature.

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I personally would prefer no profanity, however the world of Pillars of Eternity is much darker it seems than the world of Faerûn. My impression is that obsidian maybe added a dash of game of thrones to it, if not an excessive amount. Also on the old DnD games Wizards of the Coast were the owners so they had the say of what goes in and what doesn't so they were also cleaning it up, since they were protecting their franchise. Now obsidian owns it and they are doing whatever they want basically.

 

It would be nice to have a profanity drop-down in the options though which can allow Full/Masked/Fantasy/None as options. With fantasy being my personal preference.

Could we have also Extra and Crazy options for those of us who want game to be bit more fun?
Oh please, LoL! If it's not enough as it already is, you've got some serious issues.
Why is it that people who want to hear profanity evey two words have serious issues, but people too delicate to hear even one word are totally fine? I mean, neither works in real life. You can choose not to play a game with profanity, but what do you do when you hear it from a sibling, friend, colleague?

 

On the bus? Standing on a street corner? In the line at the bank? Profanity is a fact of life--because real life for adults is, get this, rated mature.

 

 

It's because of the 'maturity' of 'real adult life' that I play video games - to escape, if only for a while. A fantasy world can be 'real' without confronting you with the realities of the world in which we live that, I hope, we all wish weren't the realities of the world in which we live.

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After a few posts I’m pretty sure he is trolling. The trolling game was strong at first but he couldn’t keep it up.

 

The double-standard moralists are so real that this is a pretty easy topic to troll.

 

BTW this immersion thing is getting old. Living in a world where there is no cursing is immersion breaking. Playing a game where you can score a critical hit is immersion breaking. Having the monster exploding is immersion breaking — having a effin monster is immersion breaking. Having to use K+M to play is immersion breaking. Having to select options in a text box is immersion breaking. Not being able to talk whatever I want to whatever NPC is immersion breaking. 

Edited by ednanf

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Actually I'd really enjoy some brutal kill animations. I find them very capable of making turn based (or RTwP) games feel a lot more visceral and satisfying. I can still remember my thrill when playing Fallout Tactics for the first time. Oh, the reaper. And the combat shotgun.

Strategy games in general feel more rewarding with interesting and sometimes violent death animations. Starcraft 2, for instance, has grat death animations, while Grey Goo has none - and I felt this led me to feel weapons in grey goo are "meh". And I liked Grey Goo.

The flying ham is just not interesting. I don't like blood explosions, I'd like realistic damage for the weapons/spells used. Something like Company of heroes 1 and 2 do, as an example, and nothing close to Mortal Kombat. Not all kills are gory, but sometimes explosions are really strong. In a medieval high fantasy setting, a lot of weapons have sharp edges too...

Anyway, it's not in the game, ok, it's a great, really great game the way it is. But if they could add some nice kill animations with the expansions they would make me a happy panda.

About the language, I'm pretty happy with present balance. NPCs talk brutal stuff and they don't need to use teenage-like language to impress me. Durance can curse, but those animancers and Griefing Mother sure talk mature stuff anyway.

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If I had the ability to make a game, I would include as much profanity, gore and violence as possible. And it would be possible to kill babies ... Well, wait, we already have Binding of Isaac for that.

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Actually I'd really enjoy some brutal kill animations. I find them very capable of making turn based (or RTwP) games feel a lot more visceral and satisfying. I can still remember my thrill when playing Fallout Tactics for the first time. Oh, the reaper. And the combat shotgun.

 

[...]

 

You can say that again. Bisecting Super Mutants have never been so much fun. On the topic, I must say I also loved the kill animations of Dragon Age: Origins. It could be annoying at times, yes, and it sometimes interfered with combat, sure, but it had some really nice sequences. Or headshots with a high-caliber weapon in Jagged Alliance 2, melon explosion.

 

I think that violence for the sake of violence and excessive blood is silly, and I think that the gibbing in the IE games and PoE is stupid (I turn it off), but visceral, brutal kill animations, as long as it doesn't happen all the freaking time, or if there's at least enough of them so you don't get instantly bored, can be real "Aww yiiiiiis" moments as well as "Oh god I think I just threw up a little in my mouth".

 

I'm still waiting for a CRPG capable of giving me that proper "cut someone up along the abdomen and watch their entrails fall out as they try to collect them"-experience. I want to have the game capable of making me feel like a horrible human being and make me question what I just decided to do to these poor thieves that never really stood a chance, because I'm wearing plot armour and have quicksaves.

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