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But, if the game is going for a medieval fantasy type setting, then the F word is perfectly natural. Just like the S word, damn, and the C word, they are ancient words, that meant the same thing during the middle ages that they do now.

That is actually a really good point. Plus, a lot of the draw of the kick starter was that as an independent project the obsidian writers could explore more mature themes and adult content.

 

If that kind of thing is an issue for you, this game may not be a best choice. The backer beta alone had quest storylines dealing with themes like

abortion and sexual abuse of children

. Profanity is going to be the least of your worries on that front. If you want a pg RPG, look to the licensed IP titles.

Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy
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Another good lesson in writing (in particular fantasy writing) in regards to profanity was the Battlestar Gallactica reboot. Where they made up their own word, Frak, used in place of the F word. It was used to great effect.

 

While I agree with pretty much everything else you said, I disagree with this. I loved Battlestar Galactica but every time I heard the word 'frak' it threw me right out of the show. Sounded way too forced and contrived to me. I feel they should have just gone with the real thing and just toned down the amount of times they used it. Obviously, this whole discussion is totally subjective though.

 

 

Oh, I thoroughly agree they overused the word, and that it was forced and contrived much of the time. BSG's writing was not near as consistently good as it could and should have been.

 

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But, if the game is going for a medieval fantasy type setting, then the F word is perfectly natural.  Just like the S word, damn, and the C word, they are ancient words, that meant the same thing during the middle ages that they do now. 

Yeah, while the exact etymology of "****" is unclear (and complicated by numerous spurious claims), it was in use during the 15th century at the latest.


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I find it odd that OP reacted to the swearing in Dragonfall, because I played Dragonfall (Director's Cut is amazing and Shadowrun is really progressing well as an overall project, getting truly polished, I love it, I love the evolutionary approach to game development) and I tend to react to artificial amounts of swearing with gnashing teeths. I thought that some of it was oddly placed in for example Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, but in Dragonfall? And to the point of wanting refunds? Eh.

Different strokes, I guess.

 

I wouldn't worry about it in PoE, though. Obsidian are usually extremely good writers and I would be surprised if they felt the need to be 3 edgy 5 u. I'm extremely happy that they went for the 'M' rating, simply because it allows them to do serious things when it's fitting, and write dialogue that feels real, with actual people that vary in their use of profanity, swearing when warranted, and so on, something a lot of games fail miserably at simply because they "can't" go for a higher rating (anyone remember Warhammer: Age of Reckoning? T-Rating. In Warhammer Fantasy. Hahahahaha, oh wow, all of my wats.)

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Huh, I didn't even notice the profanity in Dragonfall. Guess it says something about the people I hang out with.

 

In any case, P:E does have some fairly salty language. Also lots of violence and references to sex, rape, and incest, this just in the BB. So if you don't want that kind of thing in your games it's probably better to play something else.

 

Or wait for someone to bowdlerize it in a mod. I'm sure that's gonna happen pretty quickly. Isn't there even a site specifically for chastity mods of various games?


I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Yeeeaaaaaaahhhhh. Don't get this at all. If swearing is used as some sort of panacea for bad writing... well it's not yeah? And even when it is the complaint would be bad writing since it'd manifest in a whole number of ways not just in the amount of times '****' crops up in the dialogue. With regards to Dragonfall specifically... Dietrich may have sworn a lot? I think? But that was totally in keeping with his character so I don't see that as a valid complaint, not if the complaint is quality of the writing.

 

Now if the complaint is just 'I don't like swearing in my games' games that also happen to have a lot of brutal, excessive violence going on you have really weird priorities. 'Yes sir, you can kill me but I'd ask you to please not be crass about it.'

Edited by Fredward
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There's also at least one coxfither. Tread carefully Maccabeus.

What's a coxfither? 

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Another good lesson in writing (in particular fantasy writing) in regards to profanity was the Battlestar Gallactica reboot. Where they made up their own word, Frak, used in place of the F word. It was used to great effect.

 

While I agree with pretty much everything else you said, I disagree with this. I loved Battlestar Galactica but every time I heard the word 'frak' it threw me right out of the show. Sounded way too forced and contrived to me. I feel they should have just gone with the real thing and just toned down the amount of times they used it. Obviously, this whole discussion is totally subjective though.

 

Same. Fake swear words are one of the most immersion breaking thing in the genre for me.

 

Abso-smegging-lutely. I frelling hate that kind of shazbot. People who do that can just smurf off, right?

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Another good lesson in writing (in particular fantasy writing) in regards to profanity was the Battlestar Gallactica reboot. Where they made up their own word, Frak, used in place of the F word. It was used to great effect.

While I agree with pretty much everything else you said, I disagree with this. I loved Battlestar Galactica but every time I heard the word 'frak' it threw me right out of the show. Sounded way too forced and contrived to me. I feel they should have just gone with the real thing and just toned down the amount of times they used it. Obviously, this whole discussion is totally subjective though.

 

Same. Fake swear words are one of the most immersion breaking thing in the genre for me.

 

Yeah, the swearing in BSG was frelling tame. The people in charge of it must've been completely fahrbot.


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I wonder why anyone would find swears in a medieval setting immersion-breaking. People in the middle-ages weren't exactly known for their politeness...

 

You probably face more trouble today calling someone's mother a whore than you did, let's say, a thousand years ago.

Edited by Zwiebelchen

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To be honest, Dragonfall had one of the best writings I've seen in a videogame, at least recently. I didn't notice any particularly outstanding swearing in it, it all played so fluidly within the context that I simply devoured dialogue after dialogue. But as someone else said, different strokes, I suppose, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

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I wonder why anyone would find swears in a medieval setting immersion-breaking. People in the middle-ages weren't exactly known for their politeness...

 

You probably face more trouble today calling someone's mother a whore than you did, let's say, a thousand years ago.

 

I don't know. I realize it depends a lot on location, but I'd say that direct insults like that were taken more serious, while general exclamations of disfavour or pain were more... colourful. Calling someone's mother a whore today could easily be taken as a general insult directed towards just about anyone, but in medieval northern Europe, you'd probably be shivved for actually calling suggesting that someone's mother was an actual whore, same as being called a liar would have been considered a grave insult, while someone saying you're a foul-smelling c**t-dwelling s**t-farmer would be like "eh, whatever".

 

But polite speech overall, not a huge thing, no, depending on what social level we're talking about.

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Is it really lazy writing to have characters swear all the time if the swearing is true to the character? I think of TV crime dramas that portray big-city detectives and gangsters who manage to never swear even though their real-life counterparts swear all the time. To me, that's just as immersion-breaking as writing that has every character swear all the time regardless of whether it's in-character.

 

I trust Obsidian to write consistent characters, so I imagine that swearing may be widespread in some areas and quests and not in others. You won't encounter a lot of swearing among the priests at a temple or the the nobles at a royal court, but there might be a lot of swearing when you deal with hardened warriors, the slums, and the like. It's beyond me why anyone would consider swear words coming from a sailor immersion breaking.

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I prefer FUBAR myself.

 

I don't hear F-bombs a lot in games, but when I do my wife points it out to me.  Honestly I miss it most of the time ... which is kinda sad really as I don't talk like that in RL at all.  I agree though that in some situations it fits.  If a man is being torn in half by some creature, and he's not a minister, a few colorful words may come out of his mouth (along with a lot of blood).  But when everything in the game has to use F*** as an adjective, adverb, etc. it's a little much (movie Wolf of Wall Street comes to mind).  Granted I understand some people actually talk like that, but I would also never want to be around someone that does.  Being able to avoid them in a game would be nice since it really isn't necessary.

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Not even just some people; a lot of people talk like that. The characters in Wolf of Wall Street were supposed to be terrible people no sane person would want to spend time with and the constant swearing (and sexism and generalized blithe psychopathy) was perfectly in keeping with that portrayal.

 

I doubt that PoE will have anything like the amount of swearing as Wolf of Wall Street, but I imagine there may be a few characters who swear a lot. I imagine you could avoid them if swear words really bother you, but perhaps, as in life, there will be people you don;t like dealing with in PoE that you will nonetheless have to deal with. 

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I prefer FUBAR myself.

 

I don't hear F-bombs a lot in games, but when I do my wife points it out to me.  Honestly I miss it most of the time ... which is kinda sad really as I don't talk like that in RL at all.  I agree though that in some situations it fits.  If a man is being torn in half by some creature, and he's not a minister, a few colorful words may come out of his mouth (along with a lot of blood).  But when everything in the game has to use F*** as an adjective, adverb, etc. it's a little much (movie Wolf of Wall Street comes to mind).  Granted I understand some people actually talk like that, but I would also never want to be around someone that does.  Being able to avoid them in a game would be nice since it really isn't necessary.

 

I'm quite curious if your wife doesn't point it out for you when you get a critical strike on an enemy and his body is cut in pieces tumbling across the screen, or when you use one of your character's necromantic/demonic powers to raise zombies/demons to do your bidding, or simply go Dirty Harry on everyone you encounter deciding who should live and who shouldn't. Because really, the double morality on this topic is astonishing.

 

I said something similar in a previous post, but it feels like for some people being a video-game gives them charte blanque to commit all manner of sociopath and homicidal deeds without really minding it, but man, spelling out a well fitting "f***" now and then, that's clearly stepping over the line.

Edited by Emerwyn
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First of all, this game looks awesome. I really, really, really, want to give Obsidian my money for this game. It's made me start a new game of Baldur's Gate 2 just to scratch the isometric rpg itch I've been having recently.

 

Now, I'm probably in the minority asking about this, but it's a concern that will determine whether or not I'll buy this game.

 

So: based on the Mature ESRB, how prevalent is the (stronger) profanity in this game?

 

The ESRB summary says:

 

 

The word “f**k” appears in dialogue.

 

 So, is that one instance? Is there only one dialogue where it appears? How often is it used? I guess we won't really know until the full game is out. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate more "mature" writing and themes. I don't mind "lore based profanity". But I recently bought Shadowrun:Dragonfall, and the (more explicit) profanity occurred so often that it was immersion breaking and annoying, and unfortunately Steam doesn't offer refunds. However, I recently learned that GOG offers refunds, so I can certainly try it out.

 

GoG will not give you a refund because you do not like the content of the game:  This is from their website about refunds:

 

If, within 30 days after the purchase of your game, you experience technical problems or game-breaking bugs that prevent you from finishing your game, contact our customer support. They will do their best to help you fix the problem and if, at the end of their attempts to solve the problem your game is still not working, we'll give you back your money.

 

http://www.gog.com/support/website_help/money_back_guarantee

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I'll never understand how some people can be okay with killing by chopping, crushing, piercing, burning, electrocuting, and whatnot, but somehow a few swear words represents a threshold that shouldn't be crossed. I'm American, so I see this quite often, but the reasoning always seems asinine. Personally, I prefer realism in that when you or someone around is in a life or death situation then more often then not swearing will probably be taking place.

 

Words are words, and they have the same effect no matter where they come from, movie, game, talking to other people, your neighbors yelling at each other, ect.  But killing in game and killing in real life have no where near the same effect.

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The writing in BG and IWD was amazing and witty and didn't contain any modern swear words (at least, I don't remember any...) so I doubt PoE will have much. I'm actually really surprised that the F-word appears in the dialogue.

 

That word has been around since the 1500's, with some evidence of it being around far earlier then that.

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I prefer FUBAR myself.

 

I don't hear F-bombs a lot in games, but when I do my wife points it out to me.  Honestly I miss it most of the time ... which is kinda sad really as I don't talk like that in RL at all.  I agree though that in some situations it fits.  If a man is being torn in half by some creature, and he's not a minister, a few colorful words may come out of his mouth (along with a lot of blood).  But when everything in the game has to use F*** as an adjective, adverb, etc. it's a little much (movie Wolf of Wall Street comes to mind).  Granted I understand some people actually talk like that, but I would also never want to be around someone that does.  Being able to avoid them in a game would be nice since it really isn't necessary.

 

I'm quite curious if your wife doesn't point it out for you when you get a critical strike on an enemy and his body is cut in pieces tumbling across the screen, or when you use one of your character's necromantic/demonic powers to raise zombies/demons to do your bidding, or simply go Dirty Harry on everyone you encounter deciding who should live and who shouldn't. Because really, the double morality on this topic is astonishing.

 

I said something similar in a previous post, but it feels like for some people being a video-game gives them charte blanque to commit all manner of sociopath and homicidal deeds without really minding it, but man, spelling out a well fitting "f***" now and then, that's clearly stepping over the line.

 

 

Well she doesn't sit and watch me game as that would bore her to death.  But she can hear.  I use headphones when I can, but my son's new kitten ... well that didn't end well ... for the headphones.

 

The biggest double standard I've had in games is that you can murder at will but flash a tit and it's suddenly a Mature game.  Though I'll admit NA games are starting to get a little better about this.

 

EDIT:  After reviewing the ESRB description it almost looks like they added the word just to get an M rating.  About everything else could have been T.

Edited by LeBurns

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I prefer FUBAR myself.

 

I don't hear F-bombs a lot in games, but when I do my wife points it out to me.  Honestly I miss it most of the time ... which is kinda sad really as I don't talk like that in RL at all.  I agree though that in some situations it fits.  If a man is being torn in half by some creature, and he's not a minister, a few colorful words may come out of his mouth (along with a lot of blood).  But when everything in the game has to use F*** as an adjective, adverb, etc. it's a little much (movie Wolf of Wall Street comes to mind).  Granted I understand some people actually talk like that, but I would also never want to be around someone that does.  Being able to avoid them in a game would be nice since it really isn't necessary.

 

I'm quite curious if your wife doesn't point it out for you when you get a critical strike on an enemy and his body is cut in pieces tumbling across the screen, or when you use one of your character's necromantic/demonic powers to raise zombies/demons to do your bidding, or simply go Dirty Harry on everyone you encounter deciding who should live and who shouldn't. Because really, the double morality on this topic is astonishing.

 

I said something similar in a previous post, but it feels like for some people being a video-game gives them charte blanque to commit all manner of sociopath and homicidal deeds without really minding it, but man, spelling out a well fitting "f***" now and then, that's clearly stepping over the line.

 

 

Well she doesn't sit and watch me game as that would bore her to death.  But she can hear.  I use headphones when I can, but my son's new kitten ... well that didn't end well ... for the headphones.

 

The biggest double standard I've had in games is that you can murder at will but flash a tit and it's suddenly a Mature game.  Though I'll admit NA games are starting to get a little better about this.

 

EDIT:  After reviewing the ESRB description it almost looks like they added the word just to get an M rating.  About everything else could have been T.

 

 

I think it's psychological effect. A lot of people have more assumed that murdering people and raising demons is fiction, but insults sound still very real.

 

And it's also because it's English, and everyone is familiar with how bad do those words sound.

 

One of my favourite characters of all time, in one of my favourite games spent a lot of her time swearing. If anyone remember Tali'Zora from Mass Effect, she had whole lines of swearing and rambling... but she did it in her native language, Quarian. Everyone liked her saying that Miranda was a bosh'tet, but I wonder how many would've had their sensibility hurt if she had said that Miranda was a bit**.

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I'll never understand how some people can be okay with killing by chopping, crushing, piercing, burning, electrocuting, and whatnot, but somehow a few swear words represents a threshold that shouldn't be crossed. I'm American, so I see this quite often, but the reasoning always seems asinine. Personally, I prefer realism in that when you or someone around is in a life or death situation then more often then not swearing will probably be taking place.

 

Words are words, and they have the same effect no matter where they come from, movie, game, talking to other people, your neighbors yelling at each other, ect.  But killing in game and killing in real life have no where near the same effect.

 

Er, no.  This is a fairly absurd suggestion. What some idiot on talk radio, some moron on Breaking Bad, some random person on the street and someone who's opinion I actually respect or care about says is wildly different, even if they're using the exact same words.  Context matters too.  Even something as simple as "Get 'em" has a whole different meaning if you're watching a sporting event or walking down a dark alley.   

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I've been playing and it is great, if anyone is a fan of Baldur's Gate & Icewind Dale you will love this game. 

 

BUT...

 

POE has one thing that KILLS IT, something that BG/ID did not have, and that is foul profanity in the NPC dialog. I really do fail to see why using the "F" word in NPC dialog was needed.

 

It does nothing but make the NPC dialog unpleasant, outside of that one thing, POE is a work of art in RPG's

 

Are you going to use the "F" word in Armored Warfare as well? Because as far as I know, neither War Thunder or World of Tanks has felt the need to use it. 

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