PoE Embargo ends March 23rd, Backers wait for the 26th?

[rheingold]

Only a few more sleeps kiddies

[Tartantyco]

I guess we will. Piss off backers for potentially more sales. I hope it works out for them. With that said, I wish Obsidian had stayed the hell away from Paradox. Oh and add Lords of Xulima to that list. Small indie dev that used backers to make their game happen. They also didn't have to turn around and spend the money we gave them on giving away free copies to others. hahaha /butt-hurt-ness

 

More like piss off entitled children.

[Arkeus]

I knew it had to be Paradox involved some how. Just to clarify earlier comments: Larian Studios with Original Sin and inXile with Wasteland 2 did not have to go down the road Obsidian are doing. The game released for everyone on the same day. Period. I'm not a marketing genius, but I'm pretty sure BOTH those games were very successful in the sales department.

I can't talk for WL2, but D:OS' first review came out days after the game came out, and the way it worked out was quite incredible as most of the initial hype was construed solely by word of mouth from backers, and the reviewers then came and saw that people already had been hyped.

 

Depending solely on backers to make your game known might have worked for D:OS, but it's not only incredibly risky there is nothing to lose by actually doing a more standard thing first and have the press get a handle on it, especially as an awful lot of people believe that if no review comes out before the game the devs are hiding something.

 

So, yeah, I don't think we should be getting the game already, especially as Day 1 patch is pretty much more than necessary and the game the press is getting probably isn't public-ready.

[pedroantonio]

 

They also didn't have to turn around and spend the money we gave them on giving away free copies to others.

 

How do you know that the value of those copies is not in the marketing budget, and in that case, that such marketing budget is not solely covered by the publisher, that is, Paradox? That seems very probable to me, and in that case it's only logical that Paradox wants to get some ROI for their expenses.

 

And think about this: the fact that the embargo is lifted before the game comes out means that both Obsidian and Paradox are confident that the game is good. If there were no reviews, or even worse, if the embargo didn't lift until after the game was out, I would be quite worried about the final quality of the product.

 

Also, as far as I remember, something like an early release for backers was not mentioned anywhere in the kickstarter.

[Luckmann]

No I'll keep it neutral - no IE mod plug, and no "I hate engagement" statements. I will thoroughly explain how to not be really pissed off by the system, because I think it's gonna bite a fair few people in the ass.

 

Pretty much every streamer I've seen has been destroyed by disengagement attacks because they're not paying attention.

I dare you. I dare you to not mention even once that you dislike disengagement, or even hint at it. Not as much as a large, deep-breath sigh.

 

Anyway, I think a lot of people simply don't know what's going on and chalks it up to difficulty. There's a lot of things going on at once, and as we've seen, not everything is immediately noticeable (such as the movement/recovery penalty) but obviously contributes to the "difficulty" when you don't know about it. Engagement will probably make a lot of people assume that the game is a lot more brutal than it actually is, simply because they don't take it into account or know how to take it into account.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing it. You said you'd only do the prologue, no? A complete walk-through of the prologue (at least up until the end of the first cave) is exactly something I'd like to see, since it's not super-spoilerish and we've already seen most of it.

 

Do you know what you'll be playing as? Class/Culture/Background, etc. Would be fun to see something that hasn't already been covered by official streams or clips.

 

"Sensuki's Pillars of Eternity Guide: How to install the IE Mod."

 

 

10/10 would not even be mad.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Luckmann

[Luckmann]

How do you know that the value of those copies is not in the marketing budget, and in that case, that such marketing budget is not solely covered by the publisher, that is, Paradox? That seems very probable to me, and in that case it's only logical that Paradox wants to get some ROI for their expenses.

 

And think about this: the fact that the embargo is lifted before the game comes out means that both Obsidian and Paradox are confident that the game is good. If there were no reviews, or even worse, if the embargo didn't lift until after the game was out, I would be quite worried about the final quality of the product.

 

Also, as far as I remember, something like an early release for backers was not mentioned anywhere in the kickstarter.

I must say that I'm a bit annoyed that the embargo is lifted pre-release, because it means that spoilers will start to float everywhere three days before the game is even released, which is actually quite horrifying to someone that, for once, has managed to avoid most (and all big) spoilers.

 

It is also puzzling, because the developers have gone to great lengths to preserve the integrity of the game in the regard, and I feel that they are throwing that away by doing this. I will blame Paradox for this, but ultimately it doesn't actually change anything.

 

But as for the idea that some people have, that they're "giving games away", that's just ridiculous. Review copies is something that goes out in every industry. There's a calculated loss of profit, same as any store calculates that a certain percentage of sales are lost due to shoplifting, and the loss of immediate profit in this case is meant to be outweighed by exposure and popularization.

 

It doesn't matter what it is, books, games, movies, there are always review copies, and it makes perfect sense. I really don't understand the wailing in this regard. Yes, I would like free stuff too, and I've gotten a few books when I've reviewed them, but this is really just marketing 101. It's not even stupid marketing, it's such basic marketing that you don't even have to be a crazy marketing department to think of it.

 

Edit: ****, sorry everyone, accidental double-posting. Was going to edit into previous reply. Forgot. Sorry.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Luckmann

[PromisedPain]

What if I told you that it is the same for every game? Will you ever buy games again?

[Kal Adan]

I think the reviewers won't spoil too much. Unless the story is that bad it'll require context to highlight how bad it is. I am actually content that embargo will be lifted a few days before the release, because I want to read some reviews to be sure I am not buying a cat in a bag when Pillars of Eternity will be released to the masses.

[Osvir]

I hope that the reviewers go the route of "first look" and "first impression" sort of non-spoiler route, and then they can push out an analysis/in-depth review later. Some reviews tend to be spoiler-y and very telling "You start in this world with a caravan and then blah di blah di blah and then you experience a [insert event] and blah di blah and then stronghold and blah di blah you meet companion who blah di blah" and so on and forth.

Some reviewers reference a lot to stuff happening in the game, and I mean, why shouldn't they? But, it can become very spoiler-y...

If they have spoilers they need to have massive tag:

"WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!! EO EO EO EO! SIRENS SIRENS SIRENS!!! SPOILERS"

[BAdler]

Since many are asking:

• The embargo for streaming the game is up on March 23rd. I don't remember the specific time, but I think it is 6 AM PDT.
• The embargo for reviews and critiques is up when the game launches. This is so all press have a chance to write up and release their reviews at the same time.
• The press are getting press versions of the game. These are not final versions, but they are pretty close. Whether or not you feel that press reviews and Twitch/YouTube streams are important, they are. They will make an enormous difference in the reception of the game. We are hoping that official press and good word of mouth from our backers will create the best launch we could possibly have. This will ensure that we are able to make sequels and more expansions for everyone.
• I understand that some of the backers may be upset that others get to review the game before you get to play, but it is necessary if we want day one reviews to be live. If we opened up the review build to backers the majority of the game would be leaked before launch day and the press would (rightfully) break their embargos so that their reviews are relevant.
• Also, the backers are going to be getting a day one patch that has many additional fixes that the review build isn't getting. The biggest change is to the Enchanting UI. Trust me when I say you will want some of these fixes/changes for your full playthrough.

One again, I apologize to any backers that feel slighted. That is not our intention. Our intention is to have the best launch possible. We (Obsidian and backers) have spent over two years on this journey together and we can't thank you enough. We just ask that you understand what we are doing is for maximum exposure and the good of the game.

 

Thanks.

[xsubtownerx]

Again I think a lot of people are confusing REVIEWERS and LP YOUTUBERS/STREAMERS. Of course you have to give copies to the reviewers. You want the game to be reviewed by professionals. The LPer on youtube isn't "reviewing" the game. He/she is PLAYING the game before you get to play the game. That's the issue I have. It's not with the reviewers. Please get this part straight.

[BAdler]

I hope that the reviewers go the route of "first look" and "first impression" sort of non-spoiler route, and then they can push out an analysis/in-depth review later. Some reviews tend to be spoiler-y and very telling "You start in this world with a caravan and then blah di blah di blah and then you experience a [insert event] and blah di blah and then stronghold and blah di blah you meet companion who blah di blah" and so on and forth.

 

Some reviewers reference a lot to stuff happening in the game, and I mean, why shouldn't they? But, it can become very spoiler-y...

 

If they have spoilers they need to have massive tag:

 

"WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!! EO EO EO EO! SIRENS SIRENS SIRENS!!! SPOILERS"

 

All streamers are required to post that there are going to be spoilers before they can stream. It is possible that some may not listen, though.

 

I will say this, if you are sensitive to spoilers you should not be watching any streams before launch. There is no getting around the fact that the game and story will be spoiled if you watch these streams. Just fair warning.

[TrueMenace]

 

Correct me if i'm wrong here, but you are not part of the press right? also what did they say about the embargo? no content can be streamed or shown until the 23rd (and content is limited up to stronghold until 26th?)?

That's right (I'm not part of the professional press and there is an embargo until the 23rd). I will be complying with the embargo rules.

 

I am going to do a fairly spoiler free guide to mechanics and gameplay that will most likely only include material you would have already seen from the E3 Demo and the Jesse Cox stream.

 

I will not be showing the spoiler sequence that they turned the in-game camera off for the Jesse Cox stream either. I would also advise that you do not watch that part of any other stream, and experience it for yourself in game.

 

From people who've never played these types of games before, to people who are really good at the IE games - I hope that my guide will have some value to everyone in between. You should be able to, after watching it - jump into the game with less of a steep initial learning curve to the mechanics and rules.

Looking forward to your videos! I have watched all of your PoE videos up to this point. Please make a lot of videos for us, especially me since I am very anxiously dieing to play the game on Thursday haha.

 

A comprehensive "beginner" guide will definitely be needed and I greatly appreciate you will remove spoilers from your video. This is one of a handful of games that I want to go in fresh.

[BAdler]

Again I think a lot of people are confusing REVIEWERS and LP YOUTUBERS/STREAMERS. Of course you have to give copies to the reviewers. You want the game to be reviewed by professionals. The LPer on youtube isn't "reviewing" the game. He/she is PLAYING the game before you get to play the game. That's the issue I have. It's not with the reviewers. Please get this part straight.

 

This is an important part of the process. The majority of hype nowadays is generated by folks streaming games right before they are released. This is just the reality of the situation.

 

You shouldn't view streamers in any different light than reviewers. They serve much of the same function - informing users of the game (and giving them a glimpse before they purchase) and generating hype for the release. They also work off of the same principles. In the same way that reviewers won't publish reviews on games if they don't get exclusive access, streamers won't stream new games if they don't have exclusive access. Obviously that isn't universal, but it is a good rule to follow.

 

This isn't to denigrate the backers or what they mean to this project. We love you guys and what you do for this project more than you can know. But, this is the game that has to be played for us to be as successful as we can be.

[Flow]

I knew it had to be Paradox involved some how. Just to clarify earlier comments: Larian Studios with Original Sin and inXile with Wasteland 2 did not have to go down the road Obsidian are doing. The game released for everyone on the same day. Period. I'm not a marketing genius, but I'm pretty sure BOTH those games were very successful in the sales department.

 

Hah...

 

Talk to WL2 backers about how well physical item fulfillment went. I suspect their European distribution contacts alone make involvement with Paradox well worth whatever percentage Obsidian is paying them.

[Luckmann]

Again I think a lot of people are confusing REVIEWERS and LP YOUTUBERS/STREAMERS. Of course you have to give copies to the reviewers. You want the game to be reviewed by professionals. The LPer on youtube isn't "reviewing" the game. He/she is PLAYING the game before you get to play the game. That's the issue I have. It's not with the reviewers. Please get this part straight.

 

Well that is true, but the difference is really getting blurred. What counts as "Professional" today? Should Rock, Paper, Shotgun or Kotaku get a review copies? Many would say yes, but many could quite easily argue that they have the professionalism of a fruit fly. Should TotalBiscuit get a review copy? He says himself that he never does reviews, but he's easily more professional and his WTF is... series and Let's Play-like videos are often more thorough and honest than most reviews.

 

This is not in defence of the people going bananas over nothing, really, because what's been done is completely reasonable (..except arguably letting streams and such go live 3 days before release...) but I'm just saying that the line isn't really that clear, not to the people that have perceived this as some ridiculous slight, nor to the developers or publishers that ultimately have to hand out the review copies.

 

And honestly, I prefer to wait until release day either way. Like BAdler said, there will be a patch and everything. These days, development goes on all the way up until release, and I would not consider the review copy to be any more of the finished game than a beta would be. Well.. maybe a little bit more, because the story content is there, but still, not the full monty.

[Chaos Theory]

Wait!  Why does Leonardo DiCaprio get to play first?

 

Is it not enough that he gets to *#$% Victoria's Secret models, but now he gets dibs on Pillars??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:  After reading further in this thread, it seems the rumor of Leonardo DiCaprio getting PE first is not true.  NOT true.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[redneckdevil]

 

 

Again I think a lot of people are confusing REVIEWERS and LP YOUTUBERS/STREAMERS. Of course you have to give copies to the reviewers. You want the game to be reviewed by professionals. The LPer on youtube isn't "reviewing" the game. He/she is PLAYING the game before you get to play the game. That's the issue I have. It's not with the reviewers. Please get this part straight.

This is an important part of the process. The majority of hype nowadays is generated by folks streaming games right before they are released. This is just the reality of the situation.

 

You shouldn't view streamers in any different light than reviewers. They serve much of the same function - informing users of the game (and giving them a glimpse before they purchase) and generating hype for the release. They also work off of the same principles. In the same way that reviewers won't publish reviews on games if they don't get exclusive access, streamers won't stream new games if they don't have exclusive access. Obviously that isn't universal, but it is a good rule to follow.

 

This isn't to denigrate the backers or what they mean to this project. We love you guys and what you do for this project more than you can know. But, this is the game that has to be played for us to be as successful as we can be.

Listen and I'm speaking for myself, this is yals baby and yal have more experience in what's going on than a majority of the forums posters. So yal do what yal think is best in making sure this game succeeds because I know how important this game is to yals future success as a company.

IMHO as long as we get the game on March 26 like yal said, yal do whatever yal think is best for a great launch and for the success to this game.

And yes I'm sitting and buckled in on this hype train and I'm more excited for this game than I am for fallout 4 (and that I'm very excited for) so I'm trying to wait for release day and yal keep trying to make this the best and most successful launch yal can tyvm for also in yals attempts to keep as much spoilers as possible secret to everybody.

[xsubtownerx]

 

Again I think a lot of people are confusing REVIEWERS and LP YOUTUBERS/STREAMERS. Of course you have to give copies to the reviewers. You want the game to be reviewed by professionals. The LPer on youtube isn't "reviewing" the game. He/she is PLAYING the game before you get to play the game. That's the issue I have. It's not with the reviewers. Please get this part straight.

 

This is an important part of the process. The majority of hype nowadays is generated by folks streaming games right before they are released. This is just the reality of the situation.

 

You shouldn't view streamers in any different light than reviewers. They serve much of the same function - informing users of the game (and giving them a glimpse before they purchase) and generating hype for the release. They also work off of the same principles. In the same way that reviewers won't publish reviews on games if they don't get exclusive access, streamers won't stream new games if they don't have exclusive access. Obviously that isn't universal, but it is a good rule to follow.

 

This isn't to denigrate the backers or what they mean to this project. We love you guys and what you do for this project more than you can know. But, this is the game that has to be played for us to be as successful as we can be.

 

 

I agree that streamers/youtubers are a BIG part of the process, but unless Paradox are giving you guys some kind of financial bonus on pre-order sales there's no reason why they should get to play the game 4 days before the backers. The success of a game isn't defined in the first few days prior to release. Look a Larian studios with Divinity: Original Sin. The big name streamers and youtubers will still do what they do even if it's on the 26th. And why would the review embargo be different from the streamers? Doesn't make any sense to me, man.

 

Also I have a youtube channel. 1500 subs. Can I get a press release version? I can confirm some sales I sent your way already with my BB videos. You can also Youtube search Divinity Original Sin and you'll see my work in the number 4 slot. You can also youtube search Pillars of Eternity and find me in the 8 slot with my latest BB video. Kthx in advance brospice.

[Diogenes]

Mom if I'm really good do you think Santa will let me open one of my presents early?

[Flow]

Oh, come on.

 

 

The ultimate success of a game may not be defined by first week sales, but it's undeniably extremely important. As a Publisher/Developer, not doing everything possible to maximize launch day impact would be idiotic.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Flow

[Osvir]

Thanks for the answers and clarity Brandon, I'm sure lots of people find it helpful. I've already decided to not check any of it until later. I view streams and reviews an important part of the process, and want to see others reactions and how it is received. But first I need my non-influenced for myself.

 

On a different note:

 

HYPED! O_O

[Jotra]

 

 

Again I think a lot of people are confusing REVIEWERS and LP YOUTUBERS/STREAMERS. Of course you have to give copies to the reviewers. You want the game to be reviewed by professionals. The LPer on youtube isn't "reviewing" the game. He/she is PLAYING the game before you get to play the game. That's the issue I have. It's not with the reviewers. Please get this part straight.

 

This is an important part of the process. The majority of hype nowadays is generated by folks streaming games right before they are released. This is just the reality of the situation.

 

You shouldn't view streamers in any different light than reviewers. They serve much of the same function - informing users of the game (and giving them a glimpse before they purchase) and generating hype for the release. They also work off of the same principles. In the same way that reviewers won't publish reviews on games if they don't get exclusive access, streamers won't stream new games if they don't have exclusive access. Obviously that isn't universal, but it is a good rule to follow.

 

This isn't to denigrate the backers or what they mean to this project. We love you guys and what you do for this project more than you can know. But, this is the game that has to be played for us to be as successful as we can be.

 

 

I agree that streamers/youtubers are a BIG part of the process, but unless Paradox are giving you guys some kind of financial bonus on pre-order sales there's no reason why they should get to play the game 4 days before the backers. The success of a game isn't defined in the first few days prior to release. Look a Larian studios with Divinity: Original Sin. The big name streamers and youtubers will still do what they do even if it's on the 26th. And why would the review embargo be different from the streamers? Doesn't make any sense to me, man.

 

Also I have a youtube channel. 1500 subs. Can I get a press release version? I can confirm some sales I sent your way already with my BB videos. You can also Youtube search Divinity Original Sin and you'll see my work in the number 4 slot. You can also youtube search Pillars of Eternity and find me in the 8 slot with my latest BB video. Kthx in advance brospice.

 

 

You are really intent on not letting someone else have a chance to play this game before you, even though them playing/streaming is clearly a thing that will benefit everyone in the long term.

[Ted Striker]

I'm so pissed off right now. I'm going to go punch a baby. 

[Kal Adan]

I agree that streamers/youtubers are a BIG part of the process, but unless Paradox are giving you guys some kind of financial bonus on pre-order sales there's no reason why they should get to play the game 4 days before the backers. The success of a game isn't defined in the first few days prior to release. Look a Larian studios with Divinity: Original Sin. The big name streamers and youtubers will still do what they do even if it's on the 26th.

There is a reason - streamers generate more interest when they show "hey, here is this game and it might interest you guys!" to all of their subscribers. That's very important to reach all people who can be potentially interested and hyped for Pillars of Eternity before the release day. Darkest Dungeon did this and was a massive success. I don't see on what grounds you criticize a proven marketing strategy?