Update 91: Closing in on March 26th!

[Pidesco]

This thread is teetering on the verge of a lock. As I'd rather not lock the thread, with it being an important announcement with a well defined purpose, I'd appreciate it if all involved would stop discussing one another's IQs and rhetorical skills.

[LordCrash]

 I'm not some sociopath just because I'm telling you to calm the hell down. I understand that you are upset and that it is upsetting; I do not agree with your rage. It's a little extreme.

 

 

You don't have to agree with anything.But the point is: It's just NOT your business at all. Why do you think you're qualified to tell me how I should feel and behave? Do you know me? Do you officially speak for Obsidian? I don't think so. So please, care about your own stuff and stop belitteling the issues of other people for no apparent reason. Besides that posting on a forum is not "extreme" at all. That's the LEAST someone could do to voice his opinion and feelings. I don't see how simple written words on the internet are in any way extreme in an issue that involved real world problems and a lot of money. Anyway, I don't need your approval for anything.

[LuccA]

 

 

Update 91

Cool, glad to know that we'll get our keys before release day. Can you tell us if backers will get keys appropriate to their pledge tiers?

 

We are giving people Steam editions that we have matched to their tiers. On Monday I will make a post showing the different mappings. Also, everyone will be able to download their rewards from our backer portal, as well.

 

 

Is it this monday or the next?

[Ailantan]

Congratulation to the team! I can't wait to get to watch documentary and play the game :D 

What new recipe will be my favorite from this one~ <3

[Amentep]

Just a FYI, with respect to the Port of Los Angeles being closed, the actual problems affected most of the ports on the West Coast for awhile.

 

It was so bad that at the height of the dispute in December, McDonald's had to start rationing French Fries to customer in Japan.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/mcdonalds-rationing-french-fries-japan/story?id=27638403

 

Yes, it was so bad that McDonald's - one of the biggest corporations in the world - had trouble getting potatoes shipped to Japan.

 

The last update I saw was in early February where another shutdown ended - http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/10/usa-ports-west-idUSL1N0VJ1OS20150210 - but a contract was still being worked on.

 

While I doubt this will assuage the feelings of those upset about the delivery issues, the idea that you could "just ship it from another port" wasn't really a going solution; while Obsidian mentions the Port of Los Angeles, most ports on the west coast are experiencing slow downs and shut downs as part of this labor dispute.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Amentep

[Valmy]

Yeah this is just a freak occurrence undermining the best laid plans. Nothing anybody had any control over. 

[cresentdark]

I think people are upset but not taking everything into account when it comes to the shipping process. To give a real life example the military took years to give me back my birth certificate because they had lost it I had gotten things mailed to me several years after they were sent. Was I mad sure but I got over it, has a game ever been late getting to me yes was I mad yes. People are forgetting these facts.

 

1) Ports were closed due to union ect

2) Money they already had money issues before the project and probably still not out the clear yet.

3) Paradox is the ones who help with the distribution that will cost them money probably all they can afford

4) Europe is not around the corner

5) Air Mail is not cheap

 

You can be upset all you want but to me I don't think they did anything wrong should they have handled it better sure I think most things should. Most companies including over seas plan short term never long term you can say people do but that's not reality. They probably planned the best they could is that a excuse sure should it be a good enough one sure is it good enough for someone no. Is this going to tarnish them no why because this happens to far often to tarnish them and not just them many products of many different things. I mean I seen things needed that were meant to save lives get shipped late when I was in the military if that can happen it will happen in this case should it happen no.

 

Do I live in the US yes does what I say matter yes and no just saying I know you are upset not saying I know how upset people are because I am not you.

[Darkpriest]

@cresentdark,

 

again, the main point of the complaint is the fact that they misinformed people during the poll about the shape of shipments. they knew that they cannot accommodate the day 1 delivery for non-us backers yet they made the poll sound like they could hence there is a high chance that a lot of people voted on that option. if they knew already that it is a choice between 1-2 weeks and 2-3 weeks delay, i doubt the poll would yield the same results. the poll results affected the content of physical editions, especially the CE ones, which are now not what constitutes a CE (lack of an important content - game disc)

 

There were no options to opt out, the communication about the shipping has been lacking to say the least for a long period of time.

 

As for the shipping - if you know FROM DECEMBER, that there is an issue with ports, why the hell not use a continental rail to the east coast and ship from there? it is not that much more expensive, or hell, go and make a deal with UPS or FedEx for deliveries, I am fairly sure you can get quite a one off deal if you come in with thousands of physical goods, and then they have the contractual obligation to deliver everything on time on their cost... we are talking about having knowledge for over three months... at first i thought that the dock workers strike is a recent occurance, like a week or two old, if it is over 3 months old, there is even less of excuse for this f... up.

[Katarack21]

 

 I'm not some sociopath just because I'm telling you to calm the hell down. I understand that you are upset and that it is upsetting; I do not agree with your rage. It's a little extreme.

 

 

You don't have to agree with anything.But the point is: It's just NOT your business at all. Why do you think you're qualified to tell me how I should feel and behave? Do you know me? Do you officially speak for Obsidian? I don't think so. So please, care about your own stuff and stop belitteling the issues of other people for no apparent reason. Besides that posting on a forum is not "extreme" at all. That's the LEAST someone could do to voice his opinion and feelings. I don't see how simple written words on the internet are in any way extreme in an issue that involved real world problems and a lot of money. Anyway, I don't need your approval for anything.

 

Here's an idea: If you don't want people tell you their opinions, if you think people who aren't directly involved in things shouldn't talk to you about what they think, then maybe you shouldn't go off on very public rants about it? There are means to privately converse with Obsidian, you chose to start raving in a public forum; you should expect to get the occasional public opinion. Also, I'm not "belittling" you, I'm literally disagreeing about the extremity of your reaction. The two are not the same.

 

As for the last line, I to am posting on a forum. It's not the posting that is extreme; just as two people talking on the street and one can be reacting in an extreme manner while the other is calm, so to does your posting on the internet have nothing to do with the extremity of your reaction and instead your actual reaction does. Not the medium in which that reaction occurs.

[Gairnulf]

Hey, wtf did you do to this thread? I came here yesterday and wanted to know simply what did BAdler mean by this:

 

 

We are giving people Steam editions that we have matched to their tiers. On Monday I will make a post showing the different mappings. Also, everyone will be able to download their rewards from our backer portal, as well.

Do I understand correctly that tomorrow I'll be able to download the digital almanach, strategy guide, digital collector's book, etc?

 

[Amentep]

As for the shipping - if you know FROM DECEMBER, that there is an issue with ports, why the hell not use a continental rail to the east coast and ship from there? it is not that much more expensive, or hell, go and make a deal with UPS or FedEx for deliveries, I am fairly sure you can get quite a one off deal if you come in with thousands of physical goods, and then they have the contractual obligation to deliver everything on time on their cost... we are talking about having knowledge for over three months... at first i thought that the dock workers strike is a recent occurance, like a week or two old, if it is over 3 months old, there is even less of excuse for this f... up.

At a guess - and I don't have insider knowledge - the problem could be not just with sending the items out but when they got the manufactured items in. The dock workers slow down/shut down has been on and off for three months.  There was a resolution to end the stoppage in late December (with contract negotiations going on) and in February.  There's no guarantee that tomorrow there won't be another shortage (unless a contract agreement was signed since the last time I checked).

 

So even if there were cost effective solutions that didn't "break the bank" in terms of shipping rail to the east coast and the boat to Europe, there plans may have been hurt if the products were shipped and then sat on a dock in Los Angeles for three weeks before they could get and sign the signature tier extras.

[LordCrash]

I think people are upset but not taking everything into account when it comes to the shipping process. To give a real life example the military took years to give me back my birth certificate because they had lost it I had gotten things mailed to me several years after they were sent. Was I mad sure but I got over it, has a game ever been late getting to me yes was I mad yes. People are forgetting these facts.

 

1) Ports were closed due to union ect

2) Money they already had money issues before the project and probably still not out the clear yet.

3) Paradox is the ones who help with the distribution that will cost them money probably all they can afford

4) Europe is not around the corner

5) Air Mail is not cheap

 

1) That's indeed unfortunate but it's also something you have to react to in an appropriate manner.

2) That's not an excuse at all.

3) That's very unlikely.

4) Pointless imo. See point 5.

5) Airmail for a package with less than 10kg isn't THAT expensive. I've bought a lot of (small, lightweight) stuff in the US and always got it in less than 7 days for less than 20 bucks...

 

Anyway, it's not just about the fact that the stuff will arrive late. **** happens indeed. It's about how that was communicated, before and after the poll. It's about how one deals with **** that happens. No official update that explains the delay and no official apology other than a one-liner post on the forum here so far. Not even speaking about some actual effort to indemnify for the delay (no matter if they are to blame or the port workers, that's just a matter of respect imho). And I'm furious because some people here apparently think that this was just ok and to be expected and that there was no need for Obsidian to apologize and to make up for it  after all because "other kickstarters failed on shippoing rewards on time as well" or because "backers just don't have to expect rewards to arrive on time anyway". So it seems that as a backer we should be just thankful to get our rewards anytime at all, being already completely at producer's mercy. I do get that this is not directly a matter of laws but it's a matter of trust, respect, reputation and moral obligation for me. As I've said before, it's hard to build up a reputation but super easy to lose it.

[Longknife]

Guis dis gaem comes out a day after my birfday.

 

Happy birfday me.

[dragonwanderer]

 

5) Airmail for a package with less than 10kg isn't THAT expensive. I've bought a lot of (small, lightweight) stuff in the US and always got it in less than 7 days for less than 20 bucks...

Yeah that's true. The cost for airmail would probably be around that sum we added for the shipping (for a basic version at least). So I really don't know why chose slower option.

[Bryy]

 

 

1) Ports were closed due to union ect

 

1) That's indeed unfortunate but it's also something you have to react to in an appropriate manner.

Wait what?

 

How? What is "an appropriate manner"? The ports were closed.

[Amentep]

 

 

5) Airmail for a package with less than 10kg isn't THAT expensive. I've bought a lot of (small, lightweight) stuff in the US and always got it in less than 7 days for less than 20 bucks...

Yeah that's true. The cost for airmail would probably be around that sum we added for the shipping (for a basic version at least). So I really don't know why chose slower option.

 

 

Because Paradox is fulfilling the packages in Europe (as I understand it), the sum total of Europe's loot has to be sent to Paradox to ship through Europe.  So they're not going to airmail all of Europe's stuff to Paradox so that the orders can be fulfilled.  Obsidian isn't fulfilling orders, themselves, that's why they made the deal with Paradox.

 

(This isn't to say you can't be upset with the handling, just that - the way I understand it - this isn't a case that can be easily compared to an individual sending another individual a small package).

[Darkpriest]

 

 

 

 

 

1) Ports were closed due to union ect

1) That's indeed unfortunate but it's also something you have to react to in an appropriate manner.

Wait what?

 

How? What is "an appropriate manner"? The ports were closed.

It is a known situation for at least 3 months. The Company should have a contigency plan. Sure it is not like in big boys business where you would pay millions in damages because your top clients production had to be put to a stop. It is not something that popped up last week.

 

But back to the point of poor communication and misinformation

Edited March 16, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Hiro Protagonist II]

It is a known situation for at least 3 months.

 

Yep, something that wasn't mentioned in the original poll. I'm a bit surprised they're sending these sea freight so close to release though.

[LordCrash]

 

 

 

1) Ports were closed due to union ect

 

1) That's indeed unfortunate but it's also something you have to react to in an appropriate manner.

Wait what?

 

How? What is "an appropriate manner"? The ports were closed.

 

 

1) Share your information with your backers as early and transparent as possible. The west coast ports were closed since December 2014 apparently.

2) Don't withhold such information before you make public polls that could diminish the value of the rewards of your backers.

3) Try to find other ways to get stuff to your backers even if it's more costly. **** happens all the time but I don't see why only the (European) backers should bear all the negative results.

4) Think of something that could at least be seen as a sign of good will and a true apology.

Edited March 16, 2015 by LordCrash

[Lephys]

Just a FYI, with respect to the Port of Los Angeles being closed, the actual problems affected most of the ports on the West Coast for awhile.

 

It was so bad that at the height of the dispute in December, McDonald's had to start rationing French Fries to customer in Japan.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/mcdonalds-rationing-french-fries-japan/story?id=27638403

 

Yes, it was so bad that McDonald's - one of the biggest corporations in the world - had trouble getting potatoes shipped to Japan.=

See. Obviously, McDonald's should've somehow willed their french fries to make it to their restaurants. Or maybe started up their own shipping company real quick and hired a thousand or so of their own workers to transport their goods. There's no reason not to blame McDonald's for allowing a delay to occur, instead of preventing it with mere force of effort.

 

So, instead of just saying "Man, that really sucks that we don't have french fries," the people who were lacking french fries should be pissed at McDonald's, because McDonald's is to blame. Also, any effort they put into trying to get their shipments to their restaurants counts for nothing, because they clearly don't care about their customers having french fries, or they would've just gotten them there on time, u_u...

[StrangeCat]

Congrats Guys must have been one hell of ride!  Try to find some time to Party when you release!! 

 

 

[Lephys]

I just imagine them having a week-long party after release (once there are no Code Blues or anything going on with release/day-1 patch, etc.)

 

I know they probably can't, really. But they should. One kind of neat thing Bethesda did (and apparently does on a regular basis when their games launch?) it just have a week-long code jam, where everyone just gets to design whatever they hell they want that would hypothetically go into the game. It can be a really cool character or creature, weather effects, a weapon, new animations, etc. Just... free range. Sounds like fun. After all that time rigorously following all the super-specific documents and whatnot, but being so familiar with the tools. Just getting to play with them for a week.

[Darkpriest]

now while i am sure that the first occurance back in DECEMBER 2014 could have been surprisng even for a commercial behemot such as McD.(sarcasm) I am sure that even to this date they have no plans on how to deliver their goods in a timley manner to all those french fries loving Japanese people in case of those evil doers at the docks block their invaluable goodies....

Edited March 17, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Silent Winter]

Congrats Guys must have been one hell of ride!  Try to find some time to Party when you release!! 

[Hiro Protagonist II]

As I mentioned before, I'm surprised the physical goods (sans disc) is being shipped sea freight. You couldn't pick a more slower method in transporting goods. The transit time for sea freight shipments from the US to Australia is around 4 weeks. That's vessel transit time, not delivery to customer. Add another week (week 5) for the container to be picked up from the wharf and unpacked. And possibly in the 6th week I might see my boxed goods. But more likely it's going to be around 2 months. In the mean time, the DVD is probably going to be sent airmail which will get to me earlier than that.