White People: What They Say in Public vs Behind Closed Doors

[Amentep]

Its all well and good to debate abortion, but the real controversy here is that Cantousent isn't his real name.

 

I admit, I died a little inside when I found out.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Definitely true for specific versions of the truth.

[Cantousent]

My real name is Eldar, doofus! *Shhh, don't tell anyone!*

[BruceVC]

My real name is Eldar, doofus! *Shhh, don't tell anyone!*

 

My real  name is.....Bruce ...in case anyone didn't guess 

[Amentep]

My real name is Eldar, doofus! *Shhh, don't tell anyone!*

Your secret is safe with me. I won't tell anyone. Unless I forget and tell someone. Nobody is perfect.

 

My real  name is.....Bruce ...in case anyone didn't guess 

Hmmm, would have sworn your name was Veecee Bruce, Mr. Bruce.

[213374U]

Sadly, a good number of people here know my real name, so if I run for office, I'll be stuck with the 'pro-life' designation. For some people, that will make it the 10,325th reason not to vote for me.

Nah, you're cool man. I'd vote for you — provided you never ran for office. That's more than I can say for any candidate I can think of. Does that make any sense?

[BruceVC]

 

Sadly, a good number of people here know my real name, so if I run for office, I'll be stuck with the 'pro-life' designation. For some people, that will make it the 10,325th reason not to vote for me.

Nah, you're cool man. I'd vote for you — provided you never ran for office. That's more than I can say for any candidate I can think of. Does that make any sense?

 

 

Yeah and its very funny   

[Gfted1]

 

Really, Bruce? Cant puzzle that out by them referring to it as MURDER!!!

 

Your puzzling skills are lacking.

 

 

Sure.

[Volourn]

"Nope I doubt anyone will question your view to be pro-life,"

 

L0L

[Hurlshort]

I have a pretty complex view on abortion, but at the end of the day I think it is an issue that should be decided solely by women, and as men it is our job to support them.   

 

The one thing I tire of is the people pushing an abstinence only curriculum instead of educating young people on birth control.  Young people gonna hump, don't be dumb.  

[Gfted1]

I cant agree that men shouldn't get a voice in the matter, its half their DNA too. But as we know, possession (of the fetus) is 9/10ths of the law so...what are you going to do?

[BruceVC]

I cant agree that men shouldn't get a voice in the matter, its half their DNA too. But as we know, possession (of the fetus) is 9/10ths of the law so...what are you going to do?

But a man can never truly understand what a pregnancy is, imagine a life growing inside you and you have to  make this  heartbreaking decision to now abort that part of you...its not a very nice situation to be in. That's why I agree with Hurlshot, its the women's choice( which  may be influenced by the father ) and  support must be given

Edited March 19, 2015 by BruceVC

[Amentep]

I cant agree that men shouldn't get a voice in the matter, its half their DNA too. But as we know, possession (of the fetus) is 9/10ths of the law so...what are you going to do?

 

 

If you didn't want your DNA used, why did you contribute it in the first place? *

 

But a man can never truly understand what a pregnancy is, imagine a life growing inside you and you have to  make this  heartbreaking decision to now abort that part of you...its not a very nice situation to be in. That's why I agree with Hurlshot, its the women's choice( which  may be influenced by the father ) and  support must be given

 

If she didn't want to use his genetic material, why did she accept the donation? *

 

Seriously, y'all talk like that around May of every year you have to step over people ****ing in the streets to get to work because all the young women have went into heat and all the young men have lost their senses...

 

*Obviously, this is for voluntary transactions only.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Amentep

[Gfted1]

But a man can never truly understand what a pregnancy is, imagine a life growing inside you and you have to  make this  heartbreaking decision to now abort that part of you...its not a very nice situation to be in. That's why I agree with Hurlshot, its the women's choice( which  may be influenced by the father ) and  support must be given

I was more thinking about what if the woman wants the abortion but the man doesn't.

 

If you didn't want your DNA used, why did you contribute it in the first place? *

What can I say Tep, Im a giver.

[Amentep]

 

But a man can never truly understand what a pregnancy is, imagine a life growing inside you and you have to  make this  heartbreaking decision to now abort that part of you...its not a very nice situation to be in. That's why I agree with Hurlshot, its the women's choice( which  may be influenced by the father ) and  support must be given

I was more thinking about what if the woman wants the abortion but the man doesn't.

 

So putting a sense of aside the choice of having sex in the first place as a mutual choice, baring being able to remove the fetus and implant it (either into the man or an artificial external womb), wouldn't the 9 month physical commitment necessitate that the woman's position holds more weight than the man's at this time?

 

(Admittedly, IMO, a lot of the problems with abortion aren't really related to abortion as much as no one likes the currently available alternatives).

Edited March 19, 2015 by Amentep

[Gfted1]

 

 

But a man can never truly understand what a pregnancy is, imagine a life growing inside you and you have to  make this  heartbreaking decision to now abort that part of you...its not a very nice situation to be in. That's why I agree with Hurlshot, its the women's choice( which  may be influenced by the father ) and  support must be given

I was more thinking about what if the woman wants the abortion but the man doesn't.

 

So putting a sense of aside the choice of having sex in the first place as a mutual choice, baring being able to remove the fetus and implant it (either into the man or an artificial external womb), wouldn't the 9 month physical commitment necessitate that the woman's position holds more weight than the man's at this time?

 

(Admittedly, IMO, a lot of the problems with abortion aren't really related to abortion as much as no one likes the currently available alternatives).

 

 

Absolutely the woman's position should carry more weight but as it currently stand the man has zero input on the matter. But as you say, sans an artificial womb, there isn't much that can be done about it.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

But a man can never truly understand what a pregnancy is, imagine a life growing inside you and you have to  make this  heartbreaking decision to now abort that part of you...its not a very nice situation to be in. That's why I agree with Hurlshot, its the women's choice( which  may be influenced by the father ) and  support must be given

I was more thinking about what if the woman wants the abortion but the man doesn't.

 

So putting a sense of aside the choice of having sex in the first place as a mutual choice, baring being able to remove the fetus and implant it (either into the man or an artificial external womb), wouldn't the 9 month physical commitment necessitate that the woman's position holds more weight than the man's at this time?

 

(Admittedly, IMO, a lot of the problems with abortion aren't really related to abortion as much as no one likes the currently available alternatives).

 

 

Absolutely the woman's position should carry more weight but as it currently stand the man has zero input on the matter. But as you say, sans an artificial womb, there isn't much that can be done about it.

 

 

You have made some good points and I am now leaning towards the man having some say....but its the womens  physical relationship with the fetus that still gives her more say. But this is something we all seem to agree on ?

[Amentep]

You have made some good points and I am now leaning towards the man having some say....but its the womens  physical relationship with the fetus that still gives her more say. But this is something we all seem to agree on ?

Until such time that creating wombs and transplanting fetuses to men or artificial wombs are viable, safe and reliable at least.

[Barothmuk]

As for communists. There is no standard communist position on the matter. ie: At various times the Soviet Union allowed and banned abortion. However communist Russia was the first nation in the world to allow it Carte blanche. Later they changed their minds (many have theorized they did this when the population of ethnic Russians wasn't as growing as much Stalin would have liked).

Lol the change in policy isn't some un-deciphered mystery where we need to rely on what looks like crazy Hitler-esque “race based” theories.

 

The Bolsheviks initially viewed abortion negatively considering it to be a dangerous procedure however allowed it given the difficult economic circumstances of the 1920s and believing abortion to be preferable to having a woman forced into poverty to raise an unwanted child (or worse dying in an underground abortion procedure).

 

In the 1930s the policy was publically debated and it was decided that seeing the issues of potential poverty had been “solved” through greater spending in childcare facilities and pro-mother worker laws abortion could now be restricted in order to increase birth-rates. Sarah Davies' Popular Opinion in Stalin’s Russia basically covers all this.

 

As for my own view, free abortion on demand, nothing less.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Barothmuk

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm  not sure of the context, did he say that ?

 

I said that I think banning abortion is socialistic which is not the same as saying it's socialist specifically, but rather that it seems like the kind of thing socialists would be inclined to do.

 

 

Uhm. Why? I mean... Since socialism is traditionally tied to atheism, why would they ban abortion? Abortion is usually banned on religious grounds.

 

Does not compute.

 

-Sigh- Let me guess, you're going to bring up the nazi's again, aren't you?

 

Go ahead and check out South America to see how "atheist" the socialist are there. Though I wouldn't trust non-religious socialists to be a vanguard of reproductive rights considering the American Communist Party (not a highly religious bunch) has stated before that taking collective control over women's reproduction was a long-term goal. I can't say what Marxists parties are like abroad, but the one's here in the US are real douches.

 

But why does it strike me as socialistic specifically? Because I tend to view socialism as a system of collective control over society; some keep it purely economical, but many if not most don't and demand collective control over well... everything.

 

I do consider it suggesting that personal property belongs to everyone if everyone has a say over what a woman does with her own body.

 

 

The fact that in South America socialism goes hand in hand with religion is really quite remarkable, and would probably make Marx scratch his head in confusion. Still, should there be a hypothetical  South American socialist regime that bans abortion, then I would wager that would be more easily explained by their religious, rather than their socialist roots. For the record, I am not saying I don't think socialist regimes would never ban abortion, I am just saying that I don't think it's very specifically inherent to socialism. 

 

 

There is nothing surprising about it. Socialism with its collectivist striving for equality is far closer to Christianity in overall beliefs than capitalism. 

Edited March 20, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Meshugger]

I am generally of the idea that the life of the child comes before the life of the mother. Why should someone be allowed to kill you just because of the whims of the mother? But on the other hand, i have no idea on when that zygote becomes "a life" to begin with, and i do have sympathies with women not wanting to give birth to children with severe genetical and medical disorders.

 

So in the end, i do not know. Maybe just trying to be a good person with a strong moral character is the best in the long run.

[Drowsy Emperor]

It obviously is a form of murder, to rob the child of the potential to live a fulfilling life. In extreme circumstances it can be justifiable, as a form of mercy, but in this day and age its more often a question of selfishness and unwillingness to compromise on somebody's part. 

 

Back in roman times, that "pinnacle of civilization" babies born in whore houses were murdered and thrown away. The Romans really didn't believe in anything, fear God (or gods) or have anything resembling concrete ethics and morality. I find the parallels between those times and ours striking. The methods have may changed, but, as they say, the song remains the same.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Namutree]

It obviously is a form of murder, to rob the child of the potential

It's a fetus not a child.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its the beginning of a human life and part of a continuous process. To take it apart and arbitrarily decide that one part of the process does not constitute  life as a justification to take it away, is an atrocious misuse of science at best, monstrous at worst. In this case, arguably the justification is worse than the act itself, as it strays so far from basic human nature and elementary notions of right and wrong.  

Edited March 20, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Namutree]

Its the beginning of a human life and part of a continuous process. To take it apart and arbitrarily decide that one part of the process does not constitute  life as a justification to take it away, is an atrocious misuse of science at best, monstrous at worst. In this case, arguably the justification is worse than the act itself, as it strays so far from basic human nature and elementary notions of right and wrong.  

Calling a fetus a child strikes me as an appeal to emotion to convince people to think as you do. It's a simple error at best, but intellectually dishonest at worst. Whether abortion is moral or not isn't what I'm scrutinizing by the way, but rather your seemingly manipulative approach to the issue.

[Namutree]

Its the beginning of a human life and part of a continuous process.

What is the beginning of a human life? I don't know what "It's" refers to.