Can u explain how death system works? I got confused

[Mazisky]

I red on a preview that death doesn't exist and heavy injured companions just go disabled till fight ends.

 

In an old stram i heard devs saying that a companion needs to be shutdown at first place and only after he can be killed.

 

Someone is speaking about resurrection and others about the fact healing while in combat doesn't exist at all in this game...

 

Can someone clarify theese aspects?

 

Thank you

Edited February 27, 2015 by Mazisky

[Doppelschwert]

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Maimed

You're welcome.

[Polanski]

You're dead - you die.

 

You're exhausted - you pass out.
 

 

 

edit:

If you play with permadeath, which I think is standard and most people will.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Polanski

[Mazisky]

what about the quote "if permadeath is activated", how do u active it? and what does it changes?

[Doppelschwert]

It's an option you decide on at the beginnung of the game. Maybe you can change it during the game, but I guess not.

If its activated, the character permanently dies when you hit 0 health. There is no ressurection, however, so the character is permanently lost that way. It's the same what happens when you are maimed and reach 0 health when its not actived.

There is no ressurection in this game, but there are abilities that can get unconscious allies (0 endurance) get back up during combat.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Doppelschwert

[Mazisky]

Thank you all guys i appreciate.

 

And what about healing in combat? is that absent?

[MasterPrudent]

Thank you all guys i appreciate.

 

And what about healing in combat? is that absent?

Healing in combat exists (potions, a bunch of priest spells, paladins' Lay on Hands ability and others) but it's mostly focused on recovering endurance. There are a couple of non-class restricted talents that allow you to heal health but they're pretty limited.

[teknoman2]

to make it clear

you have health and endurance

in combat you mostly lose endurance and can heal only endurance except for very few cases

if your endurance goes to 0 you fall unconscious

all endurance regenerates after the battle

health does not regenerate unless you rest

if you lose all health you are maimed. you take a big penalty to all your stats and go around at 1hp

if you lose that 1hp before you rest you die

if you have chosen the apropriate option, you die the first time your hp goes to 0 and there is no maim

there is no resurection magic so when you die you die for good and must load a save if you want to keep the dead character alive 

unless you have activated the game mode that does not allow you to save or load and has only 1 autosave

Edited February 27, 2015 by teknoman2

[Luckmann]

Since it's apparently against the rules of the site to criticise someone's language, I must as politely as possible ask; is it really too hard to spell out a proper "you"?

[Mazisky]

Excuse me guys for being dumb but....so, correct me if i'm wrong:

 

Endurance works like health in every other game so when an enemy hits, we lose endurance and not health, right?

 

But then, how we lose health?? 

[Night Stalker]

Excuse me guys for being dumb but....so, correct me if i'm wrong:

 

Endurance works like health in every other game so when an enemy hits, we lose endurance and not health, right?

 

But then, how we lose health?? 

 

No, you lose the same amount of enduerance and health if you are hit in combat.

As said above, Endurance is a short term resource needed to stay in the fight in combat, while Health is the resource required to stay alive.

 

Your maximum Health is always greater than your maximum Endurance, as Health is Endurance multiplied with a class specific multiplier (which I think ranges from 4 to 6, but I may be wrong).

[Elerond]

Excuse me guys for being dumb but....so, correct me if i'm wrong:

 

Endurance works like health in every other game so when an enemy hits, we lose endurance and not health, right?

 

But then, how we lose health?? 

 

EDIT: I muttered for some reason information how things where in beginning of beta, instead of how they are now, which is that all damage reduces both health and endurance same amount, but health resource is multiple times bigger than endurance resource.

 

 

Enemy characters have only one health resource and they are dead when that runs out.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Elerond

[CaptainMace]

 

Enemy characters have only one health resource and they are dead when that runs out.

 

 

Well enemies using the same system would obviously not make any difference now, would it.

[Ark Evensong]

Every hit that player controlled character gets cause both endurance and health damage, although hits cause usually multiple (depends on class and talents) time more endurance damage than health damage. On average character can lose all their endurance 4 times before they run out health.

 

So for example if your character takes 20 point of damage they lose 20 points of endurance and 5 points health (numbers don't necessary represent actual numbers in game, but work as example what is about the damage difference between those two resource pools).

That used to be the case, a couple of versions ago. Back then, your Endurance (called Stamina) and Health had the same "max" amount, and there was a multiplier that determined how much of the damage dealt to Endurance would also come out of your Health.

 

Now, damage is 1:1 to both Endurance and Health in most cases, with max Health being a lot higher than Endurance.

Kinda works the same in practice, though.

 

Just to sum it all up:

 

Example: I have a character with:

240/240 Health

60/60 Endurance

 

He gets hit for 20 damage. He now has:

220/240 Health

40/60 Endurance

 

Endurance can be healed in combat, and outside combat it quickly regenerates by itself.

Health is restored by resting. (And there are 1 or 2 Talents that can also heal Health, but not a whole lot, and only once per rest.)

 

So after that fight, you're at 220/240 Health, and 60/60 Endurance.

 

Run out of Endurance during a fight, and you're down. You're not getting back up without some assistance until the fight is over.

Your Endurance can never go over your current Health, so if your Health is down to 20/240, your Endurance will be stuck at 20/60 as well.

When Health reaches 0, you drop and you're Maimed. You get back up with the Maimed status, and 1 Health and 1 Endurance. Lose that last point, and you're permanently dead. This can be turned off, so that you'll be perma-dead the first time you hit 0 Health.

[Adhin]

The Health to Stamina ratio is x3 to x6. Wizards have x3 as the lowest. Most have x4, Fighters have x5 and Barb/Monks have x6. Barbs have a higher base endurance at lvl 1 and per lvl then monks though. So they ultimately have the highest (or can have) the highest total hp/stamina.

 

Anyway, this threads the first time I've heard of ways to heal outside of resting. I haven't found anything that lets you heal health directly via a skill or something. Anyone remember what that is, or have a link to it? I'm not even sure what to start with to look for it.

[Ark Evensong]

2 Talents. Both are available to all classes, I believe.

 

Wound Binding: 1 use per rest, on self. Heals 80* Health over 9 seconds.

Field Triage: 1 use per rest, on ally. Heals 40* Health over 9 seconds.

 

*: modified by Might.

[Adhin]

Oohh, for some reason I thought those healed endurance not health but there ya go. I also thought the self version healed less but nope lol. Kinda amusing people in PoE are more efficient at bandaging them selves then others (which is... opposite land). Either way there ya go, little bonus health, might grab that on my Barb just to have more HP's cause HP woooo.

[Lephys]

Not that I'm saying "HEY, WE SHOULD CHANGE IT!," but, I kind of like how Evolve (for example -- I'm sure plenty of games have done this before) does it. You only have 1 Health bar, but, if you're downed, you can be gotten back up for a duration, until you "bleed out." Of course, in Evolve (a shooter), you pull out a pistol and can still aim and fire for minor damage. You simply can't move. You can even be healed while in this state (as "bleeding out" is a "health bar" to represent how long you have before you actually die). But, anywho... every time you're downed, even if you're gotten back up, you get a "strike" on your health bar -- your maximum health is lessened.

 

That's actually an interesting way of doing it, and I think it could be adapted to a game like PoE. Maybe there'd be some rare circumstances in which you could "heal" the max-health modifier. And maybe there'd be ways to suffer those strikes to your max Health without running completely out of health, etc.

 

Annnnywho... /ramble

[Ark Evensong]

Oh, I remember reading a suggestion kinda like that. Let me ramble too. Not entirely sure if I remember how it went, but this is the way it'd work in my head:

 

Damage lowers both your Current and Max HP. The damage to your Max HP is a percentage of the normal damage, say 20% or so.

 

Say you start off with 100/100 Current HP/MAX HP.

Get hit for 40.

-40 Current HP, -8 Max HP. (0,20 x 40 =

So after that hit, you're at 60/92.

You can only heal up to 92 now, but resting will restore your Max HP to 100 again. (So maybe it should be listed as 60/92/100? gets a big convoluted, though.)

 

If your Current HP reaches 0, you're down, but not dead. This will incur an extra penalty, though.

Maybe an extra 10% off of Max HP? (based on 'full' Max HP)

 

When do you actually die? Hum. Maybe indeed a strike system? (Three strikes and you're D-E-D?) Or go down when your Max HP is below 40% or so?) A combination? ... Okay, this part needs work.

 

Maybe also mess around a bit with the damage to Max HP? The higher you keep your Current HP, the less damage it does to Max HP? (Say, top 25% only does 10%, then 20%, 35%, 50%?)

 

Just an idea, but something I'd like to see somewhere, sometime.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Ark Evensong

[Lephys]

Well, I didn't think about it before, but, unless you ONLY lost HP-max when you were downed (or, at the very least, never had a direct relationship between your HP-max loss and your damage taken), it would simply be a far more convoluted form of Health+Endurance. As it is now, Health is just a numerical, "total" representation of "max-HP." In other words... if a character in PoE has 100 Endurance and 400 Health, that's pretty much the same as having the system you described, and having 25% of your damage taken lower your max HP. There's a slight difference, of course, because your 100 Endurance doesn't actually get lowered until you've taken more than 300 damage. But, the relationship is basically the same.

 

So, it's not that it wouldn't be different, but, I guess it wouldn't be significantly different. That being said, I don't know if "only losing max-HP when you're downed" is a good plan. But, it's the only thing that would be significantly different. It's an incentive not to let people "die" in combat, even if they get back up and are "healed" (regenerate Endurance) after combat ends, so long as you're victorious. But, at the same time, as long as no one's ever downed, nothing ever changes. *shrug*

 

Just seems like significant wounds as strikes against your max-HP might be an interesting system to play with, design-wise. Especially since HP is basically a numerical representation of how well you're doing. Most wound systems end up being really annoying because they're heavy-handed. "Ohhh, you can't heal this at all unless you jog back to a healer in town or something," etc. But, if they were just a part of the health system, and the flow of combat throughout an area/over a period of time, I think they could be interesting. Some could even make you slower (attack frequency OR move speed, I guess, but you'd have to be careful with move-speed slowing, especially outside of combat), while some could make you weaker (base damage penalty). Some, less-accurate. Then, they'd all detriment your max HP, but most by just a little, and some others by a lot. Or, some could just affect your healing. Maybe poison? Instead of "Oh no, it's going to kill you!" it'd be long-term poison, so it just does 1 dmg to you every 5-10 seconds (even outside of combat), but detriments all your incoming heals to 20% potency, and/or converts direct/instant heals to heal-over-time. You would've just been healed for 50 HP? Now you're healed for 5 HP a second for 10 seconds. Or some combination of the two.

[Karkarov]

Well, I didn't think about it before, but, unless you ONLY lost HP-max when you were downed (or, at the very least, never had a direct relationship between your HP-max loss and your damage taken), it would simply be a far more convoluted form of Health+Endurance.

They changed it for a great reason.  There were too many effects (like dots) that easily nickel and dimed your HP to death but didn't do massive endurance damage per se.  Also it made it easier for you to hit your endurance cap thing since you had less health even though in theory you were only taking 1 health per 4 endurance damage.  The way it is now is much easier to understand and more clear cut.  I think it was a step up from the old system.

[Lephys]

^ Oh, definitely. I was just thinking of other ways of going about it that I hadn't really thought about before. Now I'm just trying to think if there's a better way than "you can only take so much damage, total, between rests" to handle what is currently Health. Especially in conjunction with the camping supply system. Sure, Health limits your ability to just keep taking little bits of damage for 7 years straight and being fine, but, all it really does is prompt you to rest. That's the main reason some are so puzzled by its existence, I think, is that the main focus is typically on "how much damage can I take in combat, before I'm out of combat?". I mean, that's the only health representation we typically see in these games. Purely because what's actually going to lead to your death and what isn't is pretty exciting.

 

Granted, If you get down to 80 Health, then even if you have 100 Endurance (max), you're going to die in 80 more damage. So, it kinda of does that, but not until you've accumulated a lot of damage since your last rest.

 

I was just thinking, a system that focuses on the augmentation of your single, maximum health pool (aka your health in a system that only has "health" and that's it) could lead to some rather interesting health dynamics. There are so many factors to play with, there. Some things could increase your maximum health, while others (like wounds I described) would decrease it. Some effects could cause your maximum health to decrease each time you're hit (so that, even if you're hit for 50 dmg instead of, say, 10 damage, your max health drops by 5, for example).

 

Something like that, as it alters each subsequent battle, could be pretty interesting. There could still be some "go back to town and heal up" option, but it might be nice to have simply negative and positive consequences for your health, as it pertains to the here-and-now of the current and next combat encounters.

 

The topic just sparked a brainstorm. Sorry. 8P

[Sanquiz]

Thanks for the explanation, now is more clear for me.

[Adhin]

The whole max-life limiter sounds like Dragon's Dogma to me Lephys. Always liked there system except 2 things. The absurd abundance of items that could heal max HP, and the ability to use those in combat. I like the idea of items being the only thing that could restore your MAX hp outside of resting but, like I said, it was super abundant. And at ANYTIME you could just hit up your inventory and consume a stack of plants to bring it back lol.

 

I think a more measured approach, and limiting you to not being able to do it in combat would be good. Then again I think in a game like PoE, doing it in reverse where spells (and resting) where the only way to restore max HP and that being heavily limited would make more sense. But that would mean people would rely on items in combat as the bulk of healing overall. I also think, regardless of your system, there needs to be some system in place to determine your character being knocked out and not killed.

It's been said so many times in conversations about health systems, but outside of not being armored and getting stabbed in the face/heart you generally don't die that quickly. Your far more likely to get knocked down via a mixture of a wound and just being tired as ****. That could be a side endurance system thats consumed while attacking and doing general actions as well as taking damage or something. That'd be kinda weird.... I feel like that would make more sense but would confuse more people, or just take awhile longer to get used to.

 

....I want another Dragon's Dogma as a side note, Capcom needs to get on that ****. Apparently theres a Japan only, multiplayer only version coming out... I feel cheated.

[Lephys]

I never did play Dragon's Dogma. Heard from a friend that it's pretty ultra fun, though.

 

And I agree that the difference between death and incapacitation is a pretty important one. Depending on the game, it could be that you don't need an incapacitation, but it's not exactly uber-simulation to merely represent at state of "you just took another arrow to the shoulder and you've collapsed, but you're not actually dead yet."

 

That's actually one of my biggest pet peeves in realistic TV shows. Usually cop dramas. They come upon a scene where someone's been shot or something (or, even worse, choked or drowned -- something that doesn't lave a gaping hole in your circulatory system), and they just go all "OH NOEZ!", check their pulse, then sighingly say "welp... they're dead" while holstering their weapons. Croikey. OR, when they start doing CPR 'cause someone stopped breathing, and they do it for like 30 seconds, then go "Just let him go! He's dead!". No, you do CPR until the ambulance gets there, or until you can no longer perform CPR. The purpose of CPR isn't to resuscitate anyone. It's to keep their blood oxygenated and flowing throughout their body while their heart and lungs are on break.

 

Annnnnnywho. In an RPG like this, you can stray pretty far from perfect simulation without eliminating the "you're down but not out" state. But, I feel like, in some ways, just having depleting Health and depleting Endurance is a little too simplistic. I think that's most people's problem with it is that running out of Endurance while still having a large bit of Health left seems like you've been "knocked out," which seems strange given that you're being hit by axes, arrows, and firebolts. Ideally, it's best, I think, to separate lethal and non-lethal damage in some form. The best way to do that? Well, that's a whole 'nother brainstorm I suppose,

 

But, I get their limitations, and why it isn't 100% perfectly ideal in PoE, and it gets the job done, so... *shrug*.