Adult Language Filter option

[Lord Wafflebum]

Ugh, just stop, please. The only thing that has been shown with an definiteness is that an individual empathy is commonly lessened after recently watching/playing something violent. Just about every study I've seen on the subject has suffered from an abuse of the scientific method regardless of what side the study comes down on.

 

There's no one thing that makes a person how they are. It's an mixed influence of genetics, emotional stability, parental involvement and temperament, socioeconomic status, and even defining experiences in adulthood as a trigger. Arguing that your ice cream melts because more people are wearing swimsuits is absurd. Your ice cream is melting because it's summer, it's hot, and therefore people are more likely to be wearing swimsuits. CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION.

[aeonsim]

As far as the citation goes, I can think of the Columbine killings in Colorado, where the kids emulated Doom and Duke Nukem the game when they went on a massacre. Some wisenheimer even made a Columbine video game where you go around shooting people, It may have even been one of the shooter's of the tragedy. http://extras.denverpost.com/news/shot0504f.htm In addition, there was a more recent study listed in the NYTimes about the effects of these troubled people, http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/05/tieing-columbine-to-video-games/?_r=0 and here, http://education-curriculum-reform-government-schools.org/w/2012/12/violent-video-games-promote-violence/ That's not even other cases like the Virginia Tech case, or the other one where the kid's emulated the Matrix and dressed up like Neo and Morpheus... there's lot's of these stories where people emulate what they see. It's quite silly, some game developers are reckless in their designs, like in GTA where you're rewarded for killing prostitutes, which reminds me of another GTA game where a teen was playing GTA with his 4 or 5 yr old brother in the room and driving around stealing cars and what not. One morning the young boy tried waking his mom up to take him to school and she wouldn't wake up. He took her keys and tried to drive himself to school. He managed to drive about a mile before crashing into a tree. Luckily he survived and told the police his story. I wrote about that back in ~2010 or so for a class assignment. Here's another one same thing except he missed the bus and didn't make as far. http://geekologie.com/2009/01/6year-old-misses-bus-steals-fa.php But these are only a few cases. It could go on for pages across all forms of media. And my goal isn't to have it completely removed, only an option to control my environment for innocent eyes and ears. 

 

 

 

The problem is that these aren't research, those are all links to newspaper articles and similar things, some of which are peoples interpretations of research and some are there opinions or the personal opinions of those they interviewed. If you really want to understand if there is an effect you need to read the primary literature (and have a good statistical background unfortunately) where people are actually testing this in a scientific manner.

For example:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jcom.12129/full

http://interpersonalresearch.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/4/0/10405979/ppmc_-_vvgs_and_real-world_violence.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=violence+and+video+games+and+computer+games

 

If you read through the research articles there you'll find every thing from a negative association, to no association to a positive effect (decreases in real violence). In general there is no apparent scientific consensus at this stage which based on the number of studies suggests that what ever effect be it positive or negative they have is relatively minor.

 

Like many you seem to be mixing causation and correlation when it comes to violence and games. If people are confused & troubled enough to plan to commit crimes and then carry it out finding they played doom or created game levels with layouts similar to the site of the crime does not mean that the game encouraged them or made it more likely that they would. It's simply that they used what they knew about something to try and plan it before hand, if they'rd been hunting fanatics they'd probably practise out in the woods or in abandoned building but that'd never be reported because there wouldn't be any evidence of it. Or the example of kids steals car keys and goes for a drive then it's all due to GTA is silly they got reported that way because it was sensationalist and there was a political angle, if you look up the statistics you'll find out kids have been stealing car keys and going for a drive since cars were invented and these 'GTA' cases have no impact on the overall per-capita incidence of such events.

Doom sold 4million copies and it's "supposed to" have caused how many mass shootings? Run the numbers and you'll find that things like drinking, smoking, bullying and mental illness are far more likely causes than 'Doom' or any other video game.

 

 

The truth is the actual per person level of violence is decreasing and has been for a very long time, and this trend has continued even as violent video games have gone from non-existent (1960's) to exceedingly common (2015).

Edited February 15, 2015 by aeonsim

[tdphys]

 

 

 

Night Stalker, what is your background? as I mentioned I don't know the specific language used to code their game, but even in my basic logic coding classes a function was as simple as creating an if/then option. It seems to me they would have to classify a class for the adult language and place a query for the class, then either hide it or change the word. It really was like one of the first thing's they taught us in school, so I don't know why it would be so much more work?

I work as a programmer, and I have a Master's in Computer Science.

 

As for why you don't change the word. on the fly wouldn't work:

 

a) There can be overlap with 'innocent' words: http://bit.ly/1vvwjV7 (it is bitly'ed because the language filter on this site would mess it up, appropriately enough). And no, I don't think regexes are the solution.

b) The naive approach does not change the tone of the conversation, which could still be so suggestive that the word can be puzzled out.

c) It would still have to be tested and debugged.

d) If any words slipped through there would be an uproar.

 

But again, it does not matter because it is a M rated game.

 

 

I'm not sure that there would be that much of a problem for a straight up text-replace,  I bet I could do english in an hour, just by flagging false positives as the search went along.   But I think you're right about the localization problems,  I could maybe do french:)  ...  

 

 it's probably best to let the community provide suitably censored versions of the game,  seeing that Obsidian is only delivering as promised.   Given what Sensuki has said about the strings for the game being easily available,  I'll probably do the english swears.  If the audio is also easily available,  that could also be dubbed over, though the trick will be finding the audio.  I wonder if they have some correlation between audio files and strings,  finding the audio swears might need to be crowdsourced .    I actually care less about that, because I can't stand waiting for a voice-over to finish saying the text that I finished reading 10-20 seconds ago and usually disable voice audio,  but I'd be happy to put in some community  service if there's demand.

 

We'll call it "prudemod", or "thinkofthechildrenmod".

 

 

Accessing strings and audio files is easy and there is no problems in changing them, but I am not sure that you could check false positives in hour as there is quite lot of those files that you would need to go through (at least several hundred, as beta has over fifty conversation files plus other text files, there is file for every character).

 

 

 

Linux script-fu solves all problems.  The number of files isn't the problem because it can be automated,  only the number of occurences.   The trick with the audio is finding which audio files correspond to which text files, because you could use the searchable text occurences to locate the audio ones.  I probably don't have the motivation to sit through 100% of POE audio, dubbing as I go,  but if I could get the audio location from the text locations,  it probably would be doable.

 

Granted, I'm assuming about 20 - 40 swears in the whole game.    I'll do the text replace no matter what.  The audio,  if it's over 50 ... I'll probably just turn off voice.  

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Some of you guys are being silly scoffing at the material I've listed just because it was in a newspaper article, but it's often first hand accounts of those affected by the event's. Why isn't that relevant? From the material above,"Many studies have linked violence in TV shows and video games to violent behavior." You ignore the results of groups like the American Medical Association who have listed their findings, and several other people cited in the articles, Jerald Block, a researcher and psychiatrist in Portland, has concluded that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold went on their shooting rampage at Columbine High School after their parents took away their video game privileges. They “relied on the virtual world of computer games to express their rage and to spend time, and cutting them off in 1998 sent them into crisis,” etc...

You're not even reading the material I'm sharing. I'm not just making up something. (How many times do I need to say I'm not asking they remove the content, I'm just trying to create a safe environment for the kids in the house?)

The consequences of constant exposure to the games aren't fully understood, the AMA said. Research shows the games improve hand-eye coordination, while other studies suggest the violence in some of them may cause harm.

``While more study is needed on the addictive potential of video games, the AMA remains concerned about the behavioral, health and societal effects of video-game and Internet overuse,'' said Ronald Davis, the group's president. ``We urge parents to closely monitor their children's use of video games and the Internet.'' 

 

Take-Two suspended release of its new game, ``Manhunt 2,'' this month after it was banned in the U.K. and given an adults-only rating in the U.S.

 

If there were no results that would support their finding there would be no reason to request such a thing. Apparently though, there's enough of a correlation that several members of the American Medical Association think it's better to be mindful of what their kids are consuming for content. There are dozens of other such cases listed online, and I'm not trying to argue about anything. You guys are taking it personal and I'm not making it personal, but I'm not just making stuff up.

[Yellow Rabbit]

Some of you guys are being silly scoffing at the material I've listed just because it was in a newspaper article, but it's often first hand accounts of those affected by the event's. Why isn't that relevant?

Are you asking why info in newspaper articles is always doubtful at best? Because it's newspaper, obviously. Handpicked facts to create "right" (author's) impression on topic in a first glimpse. Now I'm not saying that this is all bull***t (though it may be), just that it cannnot be accounted as reliable source of information.

 

Seriously, read aeonism's and lord Wafflebum's posts once again, they laid it out nice and simple. Violence in games may or may not be one of the factors leading to violent behavior, but it certainly not the cause of said behavior. Concentrating on this you miss all the other factors, some of them far more meaningful.

 

On topic, fast and dirty search-and-replace-by-pattern script you're suggesting could cause some nasty problems depending on how dialogue mechanism works, seriously. It's a lot of work for programmer. So since implementing the toggle you're asking for not going to happen, wouldn't not playing the game while children around be simpler option? Or you're saying there's some children near you 24/7? Man, I certainly don't envy you if this is the case. Gotta be horrible.

[Lephys]

Seriously, read aeonism's and lord Wafflebum's posts once again, they laid it out nice and simple. Violence in games may or may not be one of the factors leading to violent behavior, but it certainly not the cause of said behavior. Concentrating on this you miss all the other factors, some of them far more meaningful.

Exactly. It's all about correlation. I even despise the usage of "leading to" there, as it's arbitrary (I know you didn't mean anything by it, Yellow Rabbit... I'm just referencing the usage is all). It's like saying "a stick being on the ground was a factor that led to this kid beating this other kid with a stick." Well, sure. I mean, so is human muscle function. The only thing that led to a stick beating was that kid's brain processing "I feel like hitting that kid," and seeing a stick. The stick's pretty circumstantial at that point.

 

I mean, Hmmm... a kid's been building up feelings of wanting to kill other people for a while now, and he chooses to play games in which virtual shooting of people takes place? No way! I bet that game possessed him and made him want to play it! No... if he already wants to kill people, and sees a portrayed way to do it, then yeah, he might pick that to copy. That's hardly any different, in concept, from someone cosplaying a character at a convention. "Oh, how will I dress for this convention? I liked Altair's outfit, so I'm going to go to the convention like Altair! 8D"

 

There are like 80-bajillion gamers a year playing violent games and raising money for charities, being active in their communities, and generally doing positive things with their lives, and yet a handful of people who happen to play violent video games go on a killing spree, and somehow it's the video games that are the suspected link? What about all the people who do that and don't play video games? Man... it's a good thing no one prior to 1970 ever went on a shooting spree, so that we can know for sure it's video games causing it.

 

 

Anywho... there's nothing wrong with wanting something like a language filter. This isn't a binary issue between caution and blatantly, forcibly exposing your children to stuff all day long. But, the relevant point here is, this game is not 100% censorable, so not restricting play to after hours is going to be a risk that they'll see something they didn't need to, no matter what you do. So, I'd mitigate that, sure. But, if you're going to play it where they could see, I'd be more worried about making sure they know how to handle exposure to such things than trying to make sure the exposure never occurs.

 

Better to keep a fire extinguisher than to try to make 100% certain a fire will never start.

 

As someone who was exposed to things in games and such at the age of 4-or-so, I can assure you that children are at least capable of more than parents often give them credit for. Now, being forced to live in horrible, horrible living situations, or personally going through crazy things... that's something else entirely. But, mere exposure via media is not going to ruin a human being who's got a proper well of guidance from which to draw.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Lephys

[Mr. Magniloquent]

This a thousand times over.

 

i never understood the point of preventing your children from hearing, reading or saying certain words. whether you do it or not, by the time they hit 13 they will already know and use these words daily (when not in your presence), just like you did when you were at that age. 

 

It's all a waste of time. Vulgarities were so forbidden, that we stuffed as many of them into a sentence as possible just for the catharsis. Sometimeswhile walking home, my best friend and I used to sing "John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt" with more explicit substitutions than original lyrics.

 

 

 

Self-censored for taste and forum rules. In that order.

 

John a****** Jacob f****** b****!

His s*** was my s*** too!

Whenever go out,

the people f****** shout,

John m***** f****** b****** b****!

 

 

 

That came from the childhood mind of a honor Role student, Safety Patrol Captain, Talented and Gifted student, and Student Council Vice President. Waste...of....time.

 

Although, they would never have made those thing's sensored had it not been for the research that has shown over the past few decades the games kid's and the troubled people who were playing were directly related to the mass shootings and massacre's involved.

 

The correlation is significantly stronger with prescription psychoactive drugs.

[treaves]

There are several things wrong with the original request.  And no one seems to have noticed.

 

1) "I won't control my kids, so, you need to."  A great many people use this one.  If you won't control your kids, why would you expect it to be someone else's responsibility?  You don't need a switch to turn off language you find offensive, you just need to keep your kids from it.  It's called an 'account', and is protected with a password.  That simple.  Anything else is just an excuse.

 

2) "My kids can find a way to access a game I don't want them to, but, they are too stupid to find a switch in the game." Really?  I don't even really know where to start with this one.  You also probably don't realize they've already found your dirty magazines you keep in your bedside table.

 

The talk about what violence/language can/may/do to kids is all well and good.  But I'm more interested in that some people refuse to control their kids, then want to blame others, or simply put the responsibility into another hands.

[Nonek]

Violent crime has fallen every year while video games have become more and more popular, there is absolutely no causal link between games and violence, there never has been. It is an idiotic view that has been disproven time after time, and is only held by anybody whom has done no research on the subject. It is the same sensationalism that has been used against witches, novels when they first appeared, the postal service, comics, video nasties, rock and roll music, rap music and now thanks to idiots like Sarkeesian and McIntosh video games.

 

Let's stop the scaremongering and blame the real societal or genetic problems that cause violence, or blame the person whom chose to commit it, rather than looking for unproven sources to blame.

 

That said i'd have no problems with a language filter, i'm a grown up so i'd obviously never use it and I like a fair amount of realistic vulgarity, but I don't mind if it is an option.

[Matt516]

Although, they would never have made those thing's sensored had it not been for the research that has shown over the past few decades the games kid's and the troubled people who were playing were directly related to the mass shootings and massacre's involved. Not everyone playing a game will go on a shooting spree or hack their family up with an axe because they saw it in a movie or a game, but as a content creator there is a level of integrity involved because you're planting seeds into peoples minds.

 

Umm. No. I was (kinda) with you up until this point. But... no. Video games are not censored because research shows that violent video games are related to mass shootings because there IS NO SUCH RESEARCH. And there's plenty of research that shows otherwise.

[cresentdark]

Lol really I mean kids curse and you teach them why it's bad to curse I got salt and pepper poured down my throat when I was little for saying it but it's bound to happen. I seen parents say every curse word in the book around the kids and ironically the kids don't say it they get irritated that there parents say it. When I was little I heard a decent amount still never really cursed until I was much older. Everyone is different and not saying anyone is wrong about not wanting the kids to see it but I hope they never do take out cursing it makes it feel more real when you get your arm cut or and what not you don't say golly gee that hurt lol.

[Sakai]

Although, they would never have made those thing's sensored had it not been for the research that has shown over the past few decades the games kid's and the troubled people who were playing were directly related to the mass shootings and massacre's involved.

You should watch that video.

[ManifestedISO]

Jeez, who are you Francois Cevert, best avatar ever. 

[cresentdark]

 

Although, they would never have made those thing's sensored had it not been for the research that has shown over the past few decades the games kid's and the troubled people who were playing were directly related to the mass shootings and massacre's involved.

You should watch that video.

 

The media is the biggest issue that's why I stay away from the news its full of BS

[Doppelschwert]

The ESRB has rated Pillars of Eternity: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=33780&Title= I think a bad words filter would be like putting a band aid on a gaping wound.

During the course of the game, players can interact and purchase services from a prostitute—no sexual act is ever depicted.

 

I wonder why bruce did not already chime in to celebrate?

 

Apart from the fact that correlation is in fact not the same as causation regarding this violence debate, you probably shouldn't let your kids play a game where they can bang a prostitute anyway if bad words are a big deal in the first place...

[pseudonymous]

 

During the course of the game, players can interact and purchase services from a prostitute—no sexual act is ever depicted.

 

 

So it's like every single American cRPG ever where we are free to gib every single enemy we see but we won't be shown a nipple because those lead to riots and looting in our streets?

[Lord Wafflebum]

 

The ESRB has rated Pillars of Eternity: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=33780&Title= I think a bad words filter would be like putting a band aid on a gaping wound.

During the course of the game, players can interact and purchase services from a prostitute—no sexual act is ever depicted.

 

I wonder why bruce did not already chime in to celebrate?

 

Apart from the fact that correlation is in fact not the same as causation regarding this violence debate, you probably shouldn't let your kids play a game where they can bang a prostitute anyway if bad words are a big deal in the first place...

 

Bah, engaging in the "services" of a prostitute does not constitute a romance.

[cresentdark]

prostitutes can have romance lol that's the extra fee you got to pay

[White Phoenix]

Well, I was laughing when I saw this. Really, Obsidian? You gave us brothel services with NO romance with companions   (With no race restrictions of course ).  But maybe there is some kind of 'romance plot' if we often make use of services. Still I cannot imagine a reaction to my Godlike when he enters there 

[cresentdark]

I can just see it now screen goes black prostitute oh god oh god lmfao

[Lord Wafflebum]

prostitutes can have romance lol that's the extra fee you got to pay

Prostitutes pretending they're not disgusted by you and developing a plot line with a companion or NPC generally based on liking their life view, actions, etc. without the precondition of payment or anything else are two very different animals. BruceVC must be rolling over in his grave from the mere suggestion.

[Lephys]

Bah, engaging in the "services" of a prostitute does not constitute a romance.

More like a nomance... Am I right?! *waits for high-five*

[Doppelschwert]

 

 

During the course of the game, players can interact and purchase services from a prostitute—no sexual act is ever depicted.

 

I wonder why bruce did not already chime in to celebrate?

 

Bah, engaging in the "services" of a prostitute does not constitute a romance.

 

 

I don't think bruce would disregard any opportunity to shag someone ingame.

 

Prostitutes pretending they're not disgusted by you and developing a plot line with a companion or NPC generally based on liking their life view, actions, etc. without the precondition of payment or anything else are two very different animals. BruceVC must be rolling over in his grave from the mere suggestion.

 

So he's dead now? Who will carry on the good fight for romance, then?

And how often do we have to drop his name in this thread before he actually answers?

Maybe some questions to this in the next episode of this thread!

 

 

More like a nomance... Am I right?! *waits for high-five*

 

*high five*

...

I guess I should feel about myself now, but since you're fighting the good fight for bad puns you should get some support from time to time.

 

By the way, what's the difference between romance and puns?

One of them is in PoE, the other is not.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Doppelschwert

[Lychnidos]

BruceVC must be rolling over in his grave from the mere suggestion.

 

I don't know, Bruce seemed quite happy to help a girl get through  Animancy college last time a similar subject was discussed. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by Lychnidos

[Lord Wafflebum]

Haha, I wasn't sure about Bruce for awhile because I hadn't seen him pop up in any of the other forums, but he did show up elsewhere and help me derail a thread to promance.

 

I guess I shouldn't argue what Bruce considers a romance because I'm not confident on what his whole viewpoint is, but since he and I are trying to advocate for a more mature take on RPG romances (even the twisted versions that MCA comes up with) I'd wager Bruce's preference would be for a little bit more depth to that relationship.