Interesting developments in some USA Media circles

[Gromnir]

some folks is playing a shell game.  this ain't an example o' the evils western news propaganda or the public being mislead about issues.  a journalist took credit for that which he did not do.  well gosh, what a surprise?  take the journalist outta the events reported and do we have substantial different reporting o' events?  flooding post katrina were bad.  many news outlets misreported information post katrina because the official government info drops were understandably incorrect immediate following the hurricane.  private pyle reports flooding in districts 1,2,7, 9, 12.  unfortunately, private pyle never made it to district 1. it were a long day and he were ordered to report in at 0500 after having already been on duty for 36 hours.  he never made it to district 1, but based on flooding in district 2, he were certain that district 1 must be flooded. is five other privates reporting to sgt. hartman regarding which districts is flooded and the extent o' the flooding. sgt. reports to lieutenant or captain and captain reports to colonel or general.  ever play telephone?  initial info drops is often erroneous for reasons that is not the least bit sinister. the williams helicopter stuff is similar but different.  were helicopters being fired 'pon in area X or Y? have williams on the helicopter to make himself seem more heroic is wrong if he weren't actual there, but act as if this is some kinda example o' state-sponsored propaganda is nonsense.

 

what we got is the kinda crap that happens every day in every industry: a guy took credit for something he didn't personally do.  is banal.  is not sinister or illustrative o' some deep and dark evil.  is petty.   and the reason why williams gets away with his lies for so many years is precisely 'cause the fabrications were small from perspective that he weren't changing the news, but rather were simple injecting himself into the stories to advance his own career. in the west, is difficult to get away with any kinda major fabrication 'cause a dozen other guys is all reporting the same stuff and if you make a clear erroneous claim, you got twelve other reporters calling you a liar.  is different with rt and al-jazerra and other state-sponsored news outlets, but some folks will refuse to see difference.

 

does western journalists lie? sure. we bet they lie all the time, but they lie to benefit themselves and they lie in ways they is convinced they won't get caught. propaganda? *snort* is lies to get promotions or corner offices and not to advance the agenda o' the military-industrial complex... or whatever conspiracy theories some o' you jokers is fixated 'pon today.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Elerond]

https://medium.com/message/holy-****-i-interviewed-the-president-fa3e8fb44d16

 

Hank Green has written thoughtful piece where he ponders how younger generations of Americans view news and how he thinks they have changed and lost their way from what made them trusted sources to something that is seen in much less  positive light. I am not sure if I agree with all of his points, but he has some good ones. I would like hear especially your BruceVC thoughts of what he has to say about legitimacy of American (cable) news.

[Guard Dog]

some folks is playing a shell game.  this ain't an example o' the evils western news propaganda or the public being mislead about issues.  a journalist took credit for that which he did not do.  well gosh, what a surprise?  take the journalist outta the events reported and do we have substantial different reporting o' events?  flooding post katrina were bad.  many news outlets misreported information post katrina because the official government info drops were understandably incorrect immediate following the hurricane.  private pyle reports flooding in districts 1,2,7, 9, 12.  unfortunately, private pyle never made it to district 1. it were a long day and he were ordered to report in at 0500 after having already been on duty for 36 hours.  he never made it to district 1, but based on flooding in district 2, he were certain that district 1 must be flooded. is five other privates reporting to sgt. hartman regarding which districts is flooded and the extent o' the flooding. sgt. reports to lieutenant or captain and captain reports to colonel or general.  ever play telephone?  initial info drops is often erroneous for reasons that is not the least bit sinister. the williams helicopter stuff is similar but different.  were helicopters being fired 'pon in area X or Y? have williams on the helicopter to make himself seem more heroic is wrong if he weren't actual there, but act as if this is some kinda example o' state-sponsored propaganda is nonsense.

 

 

Actually my favorite post-Katrina lies the media ran with was stories of cannibalisim. If I were a resident of NO I'd be morally offended at that. If they were eating eachother after just 4 days they had to have least considered it previously.

 

I know that was not your point Grom, I just remembered that as being one of the more outragous instances of media sensationalisim.

[BruceVC]

some folks is playing a shell game.  this ain't an example o' the evils western news propaganda or the public being mislead about issues.  a journalist took credit for that which he did not do.  well gosh, what a surprise?  take the journalist outta the events reported and do we have substantial different reporting o' events?  flooding post katrina were bad.  many news outlets misreported information post katrina because the official government info drops were understandably incorrect immediate following the hurricane.  private pyle reports flooding in districts 1,2,7, 9, 12.  unfortunately, private pyle never made it to district 1. it were a long day and he were ordered to report in at 0500 after having already been on duty for 36 hours.  he never made it to district 1, but based on flooding in district 2, he were certain that district 1 must be flooded. is five other privates reporting to sgt. hartman regarding which districts is flooded and the extent o' the flooding. sgt. reports to lieutenant or captain and captain reports to colonel or general.  ever play telephone?  initial info drops is often erroneous for reasons that is not the least bit sinister. the williams helicopter stuff is similar but different.  were helicopters being fired 'pon in area X or Y? have williams on the helicopter to make himself seem more heroic is wrong if he weren't actual there, but act as if this is some kinda example o' state-sponsored propaganda is nonsense.

 

what we got is the kinda crap that happens every day in every industry: a guy took credit for something he didn't personally do.  is banal.  is not sinister or illustrative o' some deep and dark evil.  is petty.   and the reason why williams gets away with his lies for so many years is precisely 'cause the fabrications were small from perspective that he weren't changing the news, but rather were simple injecting himself into the stories to advance his own career. in the west, is difficult to get away with any kinda major fabrication 'cause a dozen other guys is all reporting the same stuff and if you make a clear erroneous claim, you got twelve other reporters calling you a liar.  is different with rt and al-jazerra and other state-sponsored news outlets, but some folks will refuse to see difference.

 

does western journalists lie? sure. we bet they lie all the time, but they lie to benefit themselves and they lie in ways they is convinced they won't get caught. propaganda? *snort* is lies to get promotions or corner offices and not to advance the agenda o' the military-industrial complex... or whatever conspiracy theories some o' you jokers is fixated 'pon today.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

This is an relevant post Gromnir but I am concerned with your comment " we bet they lie all the time", do you really believe that or are you just being diplomatic?

 

Have you ever watched the The Newsroom on HBO? Now before people say " thats just a TV series, you can't believe thats accurate  ",  its based on how a real newsroom operates and the producer spent time in a newsroom getting real exposure. Anyway that is exactly how I imagine a media house operates. Highly intelligent people who have a real desire to break the news and keep people  informed. But the veracity of stories is important and so is the importance of journalistic integrity. Do cover ups happen...sure, do reporters sometimes lie .....yes they do. But end of the day they try to give the public stories that are real and breaking news that is confirmed by multiple sources. And they don't lie all the time, I would say mendaciousness is the exception.. not the norm 

[Gromnir]

 

some folks is playing a shell game.  this ain't an example o' the evils western news propaganda or the public being mislead about issues.  a journalist took credit for that which he did not do.  well gosh, what a surprise?  take the journalist outta the events reported and do we have substantial different reporting o' events?  flooding post katrina were bad.  many news outlets misreported information post katrina because the official government info drops were understandably incorrect immediate following the hurricane.  private pyle reports flooding in districts 1,2,7, 9, 12.  unfortunately, private pyle never made it to district 1. it were a long day and he were ordered to report in at 0500 after having already been on duty for 36 hours.  he never made it to district 1, but based on flooding in district 2, he were certain that district 1 must be flooded. is five other privates reporting to sgt. hartman regarding which districts is flooded and the extent o' the flooding. sgt. reports to lieutenant or captain and captain reports to colonel or general.  ever play telephone?  initial info drops is often erroneous for reasons that is not the least bit sinister. the williams helicopter stuff is similar but different.  were helicopters being fired 'pon in area X or Y? have williams on the helicopter to make himself seem more heroic is wrong if he weren't actual there, but act as if this is some kinda example o' state-sponsored propaganda is nonsense.

 

 

Actually my favorite post-Katrina lies the media ran with was stories of cannibalisim. If I were a resident of NO I'd be morally offended at that. If they were eating eachother after just 4 days they had to have least considered it previously.

 

I know that was not your point Grom, I just remembered that as being one of the more outragous instances of media sensationalisim.

 

cannibalism in the bayou... is a juicy story.  

 

worst pun ever.

 

we expect such nonsense from journalists.  get a couple residents claiming they has seen neighbors going cannibal and some journalist looking to make a name for himself reports instead o' fact checking.  heck, we has mentioned before about how news outlets reported that president bush were dead following his on-camera vomiting in japan. one wacky guy pretends to be bush's personal physician and CNN is literal in the middle o' announcing to the world that "the president is dead" before somebody shouts on set to "stop."

 

'course the need to be first with the most dramatic story is exact why we tends to get misreporting exact opposite o' how the conspiracy theorists claims.  cannibals in new orleans is not the kinda thing The Man or The Government wants, but is dramatic.  covering of events in ferguson or gaza or wherever is similar.  whatever story is most dramatic is gonna get reported as long as the journalist can get even a couple sketchy sources to back up the tale.  

 

misreporting in the west is rarely some kinda sinister conspiracy theory fodder.  reporters is trying to be first with the most salacious story and the thing that prevents them from doing crap such as they do on rt is the fact that they know there is dozens or hundreds o' other reporters who is gonna expose their attempts to get ahead o' the competition.  is personal self-interest, not sinister.

 

HA! good Fun!

Edited February 11, 2015 by Gromnir

[Leferd]

Aaron Sorkin had written/produced some of my favorite television shows and movies that are intelligent, high-minded, informative, and obviously well researched.

 

Credits include: Sports Night, The West Wing, A Few Good Men, The American President, Charlie Wilson's War, Moneyball, and The Social Network.

 

He's also written a few duds (relative for his standards) such as Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, and yes, The Newsroom.

 

Thing is, The Newsroom would be Jon Stewart's idealized version of what a cable news show should be. The show doesn't really work because of its preachy and condensing nature and well, sometimes Sorkin needs to get off his soapbox because he's not nearly as funny as Stewart while ripping contemporary news media.

[ShadySands]

Oh man, Newsroom... I was thinking News Radio but now it makes so much more sense

[Gromnir]

 

some folks is playing a shell game.  this ain't an example o' the evils western news propaganda or the public being mislead about issues.  a journalist took credit for that which he did not do.  well gosh, what a surprise?  take the journalist outta the events reported and do we have substantial different reporting o' events?  flooding post katrina were bad.  many news outlets misreported information post katrina because the official government info drops were understandably incorrect immediate following the hurricane.  private pyle reports flooding in districts 1,2,7, 9, 12.  unfortunately, private pyle never made it to district 1. it were a long day and he were ordered to report in at 0500 after having already been on duty for 36 hours.  he never made it to district 1, but based on flooding in district 2, he were certain that district 1 must be flooded. is five other privates reporting to sgt. hartman regarding which districts is flooded and the extent o' the flooding. sgt. reports to lieutenant or captain and captain reports to colonel or general.  ever play telephone?  initial info drops is often erroneous for reasons that is not the least bit sinister. the williams helicopter stuff is similar but different.  were helicopters being fired 'pon in area X or Y? have williams on the helicopter to make himself seem more heroic is wrong if he weren't actual there, but act as if this is some kinda example o' state-sponsored propaganda is nonsense.

 

what we got is the kinda crap that happens every day in every industry: a guy took credit for something he didn't personally do.  is banal.  is not sinister or illustrative o' some deep and dark evil.  is petty.   and the reason why williams gets away with his lies for so many years is precisely 'cause the fabrications were small from perspective that he weren't changing the news, but rather were simple injecting himself into the stories to advance his own career. in the west, is difficult to get away with any kinda major fabrication 'cause a dozen other guys is all reporting the same stuff and if you make a clear erroneous claim, you got twelve other reporters calling you a liar.  is different with rt and al-jazerra and other state-sponsored news outlets, but some folks will refuse to see difference.

 

does western journalists lie? sure. we bet they lie all the time, but they lie to benefit themselves and they lie in ways they is convinced they won't get caught. propaganda? *snort* is lies to get promotions or corner offices and not to advance the agenda o' the military-industrial complex... or whatever conspiracy theories some o' you jokers is fixated 'pon today.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

This is an relevant post Gromnir but I am concerned with your comment " we bet they lie all the time", do you really believe that or are you just being diplomatic?

 

 

 

yeah, we bet they do lie all the time, but is largely petty and irrelevant stuff that they is most frequent gonna lie about.  some journalist says he saw "bodies" floating in the water outside the hotel.  lie?  probably. he knows bodies is floating around all over new orleans. at night he happens to see something float by in the shallow flooding in the french quarter where his hotel is at.  how does he know it is a body? did he check?  he don't know for certain it is a body, but the detail make his story better, and it could possibly have been a body.  is a lie, but a small one and one that ain't gonna get him in trouble.

 

*shrug*

 

is not the story that is gonna be fabricated, but stuff such as williams claims that he could personally see dead bodies from his hotel in new orleans? 

 

how many reporters is lax 'bout checking their sources?  these guys is under great pressure to get news out First.  so, they get a story that sounds dramatic and they do what checking they can in the time they got and they get story on internet or on tv asap.  is a lie to present a story as factual when all you got is crappy eye-witness account from an admitted biased israeli soldier or hamas member? probable. 

 

all the time? yeah, but not in the way you is worried 'bout? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Leferd]

Oh man, Newsroom... I was thinking News Radio but now it makes so much more sense

Bill McNeal. He's the Newsman among Newsmen. Salud.

[BruceVC]

 

 

some folks is playing a shell game.  this ain't an example o' the evils western news propaganda or the public being mislead about issues.  a journalist took credit for that which he did not do.  well gosh, what a surprise?  take the journalist outta the events reported and do we have substantial different reporting o' events?  flooding post katrina were bad.  many news outlets misreported information post katrina because the official government info drops were understandably incorrect immediate following the hurricane.  private pyle reports flooding in districts 1,2,7, 9, 12.  unfortunately, private pyle never made it to district 1. it were a long day and he were ordered to report in at 0500 after having already been on duty for 36 hours.  he never made it to district 1, but based on flooding in district 2, he were certain that district 1 must be flooded. is five other privates reporting to sgt. hartman regarding which districts is flooded and the extent o' the flooding. sgt. reports to lieutenant or captain and captain reports to colonel or general.  ever play telephone?  initial info drops is often erroneous for reasons that is not the least bit sinister. the williams helicopter stuff is similar but different.  were helicopters being fired 'pon in area X or Y? have williams on the helicopter to make himself seem more heroic is wrong if he weren't actual there, but act as if this is some kinda example o' state-sponsored propaganda is nonsense.

 

what we got is the kinda crap that happens every day in every industry: a guy took credit for something he didn't personally do.  is banal.  is not sinister or illustrative o' some deep and dark evil.  is petty.   and the reason why williams gets away with his lies for so many years is precisely 'cause the fabrications were small from perspective that he weren't changing the news, but rather were simple injecting himself into the stories to advance his own career. in the west, is difficult to get away with any kinda major fabrication 'cause a dozen other guys is all reporting the same stuff and if you make a clear erroneous claim, you got twelve other reporters calling you a liar.  is different with rt and al-jazerra and other state-sponsored news outlets, but some folks will refuse to see difference.

 

does western journalists lie? sure. we bet they lie all the time, but they lie to benefit themselves and they lie in ways they is convinced they won't get caught. propaganda? *snort* is lies to get promotions or corner offices and not to advance the agenda o' the military-industrial complex... or whatever conspiracy theories some o' you jokers is fixated 'pon today.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

This is an relevant post Gromnir but I am concerned with your comment " we bet they lie all the time", do you really believe that or are you just being diplomatic?

 

 

 

yeah, we bet they do lie all the time, but is largely petty and irrelevant stuff that they is most frequent gonna lie about.  some journalist says he saw "bodies" floating in the water outside the hotel.  lie?  probably. he knows bodies is floating around all over new orleans. at night he happens to see something float by in the shallow flooding in the french quarter where his hotel is at.  how does he know it is a body? did he check?  he don't know for certain it is a body, but the detail make his story better, and it could possibly have been a body.  is a lie, but a small one and one that ain't gonna get him in trouble.

 

*shrug*

 

is not the story that is gonna be fabricated, but stuff such as williams claims that he could personally see dead bodies from his hotel in new orleans? 

 

how many reporters is lax 'bout checking their sources?  these guys is under great pressure to get news out First.  so, they get a story that sounds dramatic and they do what checking they can in the time they got and they get story on internet or on tv asap.  is a lie to present a story as factual when all you got is crappy eye-witness account from an admitted biased israeli soldier or hamas member? probable. 

 

all the time? yeah, but not in the way you is worried 'bout? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

That makes perfect sense, good post 

[Hurlshort]

There is a difference between being ignorant and being deceitful.  I expect my news reporting to have a fair amount of ignorance, as we all should.

[Gromnir]

There is a difference between being ignorant and being deceitful.  I expect my news reporting to have a fair amount of ignorance, as we all should.

is a fuzzy line.  if you report as fact that which you know you is actual ignorant, is that not deceitful?  with the internet and 24 hour tv news sites, there is such incredible pressure to be first and to be dramatic. if you ain't dramatic enough, people will switch channels or click on a different site.  if you ain't fast enough, people will switch channels or click to a different site.

 

much o' the stuff that gets reported as news today would have been dismissed as idle rumor by major newspapers and tv stations even 15 years ago.  that is ok.  we accept that people want up-to-the-second updates when something dramatic is happening in the world.  the thing is, people expect the same accuracy today that they did 15 years ago.  is not easy for reporters and news agencies to balance the need to be relevant and the duty to be accurate. we accept that initial reports is gonna contain much conjecture and error that got nothing to do with dark cabals and the monsters lurking under val's bed.

 

*chuckle*

 

converse, if you don't report every minute, the conspiracy nutters then claim you is hiding the truth from the public.  is no-win.

 

nevertheless, we do believe that reporting as news or fact what one knows is little more than pure speculation and/or conjecture is at least bordering on deceitful.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Valsuelm]

....  I expect my news reporting to have a fair amount of ignorance, as we all should.

 

There's two ways to interpret that, but in either case, no.

 

I don't expect news I read to have ignorance. I expect whomever is doing the story to actually thoroughly research whatever it is they are covering and present all of the facts, ignoring none. That is what journalism is supposed to be. Is that what most journalists do? In the main stream media? Certainly not. In the wider media? Hard to say as there's quite a lot out there.

 

If you meant we should all have a fair amount of ignorance (which I certainly hope you didn't mean as you'd pretty much be a hopeless case if so), no, and the reasons for this should be obvious.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Leferd]

One could argue that television news programs places more emphasis on entertainment than actual news.

 

Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death is thirty years old but is still relevant in its indictment of media culture.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X

[Amentep]

'course the need to be first with the most dramatic story is exact why we tends to get misreporting exact opposite o' how the conspiracy theorists claims.

Reminds me of something. Local news channel broke into program touting they were "First on the scene" where a teen boy had been shot to death by his younger brother playing with a gun. And would break in with more details.

 

Next update, the teen was playing with the gun and had accidently shot and killed himself. No brother, and no clue if the gun was his parents or not or where the parents were.

 

Last update, a man in his mid-twenties committed suicide at his own home.

[Gromnir]

One could argue that television news programs places more emphasis on entertainment than actual news.

 

Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death is thirty years old but is still relevant in its indictment of media culture.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X

journalists get angry when pundits suggest that entertainment is more important than the news in news, but am thinking that it is undeniable that news outlets feel great pressure to hold the attention o' their audience. john stewart were being funny, that were his excuse.  he never claimed that he were trying to be a legit news journalist.  associated press, washington post, new york times and others not have the luxury o' being able to overt claim that they is entertainers, but they has exact same desire to increase or maintain viewer/reader attention and sponsorship.

 

but again, we is talking o' rather obvious motivations and not conspiracies or government subversion o' freedom o' press.  what we see is businesses trying to stay in business, and employees o' the business trying to get ahead in their field.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Leferd]

Or you could go the PBS Newshour way and bore ourselves to death with dry, non-sensationalistic, and civil deba---discussion. Zzzzzzz.

[Gromnir]

 

'course the need to be first with the most dramatic story is exact why we tends to get misreporting exact opposite o' how the conspiracy theorists claims.

Reminds me of something. Local news channel broke into program touting they were "First on the scene" where a teen boy had been shot to death by his younger brother playing with a gun. And would break in with more details.

 

Next update, the teen was playing with the gun and had accidently shot and killed himself. No brother, and no clue if the gun was his parents or not or where the parents were.

 

Last update, a man in his mid-twenties committed suicide at his own home.

 

yeah. it gets even more peculiar when the news outlets has panels o' experts weigh-in on what ends up being complete inaccurate... the cnn panel that spends two hours arguing about how irresponsible parents is to have handguns in home v. 2nd amendment rights.

 

*shrug*

 

"Or you could go the PBS Newshour way and bore ourselves to death with dry, non-sensationalistic, and civil deba---discussion. Zzzzzzz."

 

our primary news sources is npr, pbs and wall street journal.  they can be a bit... dry.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

Edited February 11, 2015 by Gromnir

[Zoraptor]

Stewart's been on a bit of a downhill since probably 2007. Still better than most stuff on TV, but worse than it was. I do wonder who will replace him since the obvious candidates are all otherwise employed now.

 

Williams, well who knows. My brother in law is a policeman and he's said that people quite often have absolutely honest, but absolutely incorrect, recall of events especially when they're under stress- people have a habit of putting themselves directly into the narrative, even when it's particularly stupid to do so. I'd put it in the Hillary Clinton 'landing in Sarajevo under fire' class. Both were dangerous situations in which there was a very real, if overstated, risk. Most people don't really have the opportunity to lie in that fashion precisely because they spend their time in a safe environment.

 

As for the media overall, the big problem there is tight budgets and the tendency to just regurgitate press statements and what you're told by 'trusted' sources acritically, plus increasingly reliance on social media (ptooey*). If there's no actual journalism involved, no getting other opinions, no fact checking it simply does not matter whether it's media being deliberate mouthpieces for propaganda or hapless dupes, the end result is the same; regurgitation of PR, propaganda and a failure in the crucial role media should play in keeping politicians honest. Well, as honest as possible. Most people think the state of gaming journalism is terrible but that is where all journalism is heading because proper journalism is expensive and takes time and skill- and the time may even end up being wasted if an investigative story does not pan out. Crap journalism is cheap, you can print first and think later and it has a bigger, in some cases far bigger, audience than quality has. British tabloids are utter crap, but that doesn't stop the 'Fail and the Scum from being the two biggest sellers, indeed they are the biggest sellers precisely because they're crap clickbait equivalents. So, why do quality when rubbish is both easier/ cheaper and has better rewards? That's also extremely convenient for governments, they get their PR spin from a compliant acritical press while being able to talk about how they have freedom of the press and are subject to press oversight. Which is all most people need to nod and decide everything is fine and wow some minor reality star had a car crash when they may or may not have been txting, how very interesting.

 

*Though it can be a good or even great source of information getting that good info from SM takes all the things that journalists no longer have, time, critical analysis etc. Far easier to just do a 'BBC trending' style lol a cat climbed a tree so funneh! or use random tweets to imply interactivity. Yeah, if I want that load of old bollocks I'd just look on twitter myself, I want informed comment not what Barry the waste technician from Eketahuna thinks about Greece's possible default and its ramifications on the world economy.

[Amentep]

I hate the "what's trending" "news" articles on what is supposed to be non-entertainment news.

[Hurlshort]

It doesn't even make sense that Williams would intentionally lie about being on the helicopter.  The actual narrative is compelling enough without him embellishing on it.  It is much more likely that he has a bad recollection.  If he was actually attempting deceit, it would be a pretty poor attempt, as the story was quite easily revealed as inaccurate.  

 

 

As for holding people to higher standards, as has been stated, our 24 hour constant update newscycle has pretty much killed high standards.  There are places to go for better research and analysis, but they don't get the ratings. 

[Amentep]

It doesn't even make sense that Williams would intentionally lie about being on the helicopter.

You could say the same thing about people who say they earned a purple heart but didn't.

 

Or people who claim on their resumes to have worked for IBM, but didn't.

[Hurlshort]

 

It doesn't even make sense that Williams would intentionally lie about being on the helicopter.

You could say the same thing about people who say they earned a purple heart but didn't.

 

Or people who claim on their resumes to have worked for IBM, but didn't.

No, the IBM one would improve your credentials. What I am saying is it does not improve his credibility to be on the helicopter that was hit, at least not enough to warrant the risk of lying.

[Gromnir]

 

 

It doesn't even make sense that Williams would intentionally lie about being on the helicopter.

You could say the same thing about people who say they earned a purple heart but didn't.

 

Or people who claim on their resumes to have worked for IBM, but didn't.

No, the IBM one would improve your credentials. What I am saying is it does not improve his credibility to be on the helicopter that was hit, at least not enough to warrant the risk of lying.

 

dunno. how much cred does one get from peers and public for being in the thick of it as a reporter or  photographer?  am honestly not sure about such.  

recall bernard shaw from cnn?  when gulf war starts, he admitted on-air that he were going to go hide when some shelling started.  he got accused of, we kid you not, "soiled diaper" reporting.  there were three cnn guys... peter arnett, shaw and... damn our memory.  anyway, there is three cnn guys doing reporting live and we couldn't help our self from initially thinking that bernard sounded a bit cowardly especially compared to his companions. sure, as soon as we had time to reflect we realized that it were stupid to label shaw a coward 'cause he didn't wanna get killed while reporting news, but we can't deny our initial impression.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

 

It doesn't even make sense that Williams would intentionally lie about being on the helicopter.

You could say the same thing about people who say they earned a purple heart but didn't.

 

Or people who claim on their resumes to have worked for IBM, but didn't.

 

 

Both of those are far more likely to be a deliberate lie though. You're unlikely to think that you have been wounded or worked at IBM for x d/ w/ m/ y incorrectly because both of those things are 'chronic', they take a long time and have direct long term consequences, it's more akin to Williams claiming he has shrapnel scars from the RPG or claiming he was in Iraq when actually he was sitting behind a studio desk. OTOH, being in a helicopter convoy in which the first helicopter is shot at is a short, one off event with no obvious long term consquence.

 

What Williams did is more an exaggeration than a full out fabrication, much as Clinton's was- there was the very real risk of them getting shot at and someone did get shot at, it just wasn't actually them. It is quite a small step from 'this happened to someone nearby' to 'this happened to me'.