Accuracy be-gone?

[Captain Shrek]

Hi guys. Been away for a while from the forums and the game. But I recently heard that the accuracy was now 'gone'. How can that be? Does this mean that there is no 'miss' now? Wasn't this already the case except on a critical miss? Can someone explain why such a fundamental change has occurred at such a late stage? Will there be enough time now to balance this?

[BlueLion]

There is still accuracy, it just can't be buffed/de-buffed in character creation as it is not attached to any of the attributes.

[wanderon]

So then it is attached to what exactly?

[Lysen]

So then it is attached to what exactly?

 

Maybe it depends on your class only.

[wanderon]

 

So then it is attached to what exactly?

 

Maybe it depends on your class only.

 

 

and/or your weapons perhaps?

[aeonsim]

It's now dependent on the sum of your Class, Level, Items + Enchantments, Talents, Food/Potions & special effects that are active.

[Endrosz]

The resolution table has also changed, but all these changes are not in the current build yet.

 

If Accuracy-Deflection = 0, then the 1d100 attack roll is:

 

Old one:

01-05 Miss

06-50 Graze

51-95 Hit

96+ Crit

 

New one:

01-05 Miss

06-30 Graze

31-105 Hit

106+ Crit

 

Grazes reduced by 20% (to 25%), crits by 10% (to -5%), normal hits expanded as a result; I like both changes. To get a crit chance, you need an Accuracy at least 6 points higher than the target's Deflection.

 

(I wrote this from memory, I might be wrong somewhere.)

[Karkarov]

Accuracy no longer comes from stats directly.  You still have accuracy scores based on class, talents that increase accuracy (like weapon focus), items that can buff your accuracy, and spells/abilities that can increase it as well.

 

So it is still there, it just isn't as easy to buff it to insane levels anymore.

[Sensuki]

(I wrote this from memory, I might be wrong somewhere.)

Yeah you are wrong.

 

Miss 0-15

Graze 16-50

Hit 51-105

Crit: 106+

[Odd Hermit]

It was too good to come from an attribute, every class/build would be best maxing/prioritizing the attribute they put it on otherwise, except maybe a pure support/healer.

 

They could've nerfed accuracy and/or changed graze/hit/crit mechanics, but this is probably the easiest way to deal with it. It'll probably be easier for them to polish up and balance things without having to factor in such a big variable from a single attribute.

 

Especially with the way DT works, a graze vs. a hit is often the difference between dealing laughable or no damage so accuracy did a lot more than just a normal/gradual % increase in damage like might.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[forgottenlor]

So what does perception modify now? Only range?

[Gromnir]

accuracy is overwhelming important to most poe characters. 

 

...

 

above observation creates a dilemma for the developers. have accuracy tied to a single attribute necessarily makes that attribute "overwhelming important" too.  given developer goals regarding balance and their intent to makes multiple character builds viable, linking accuracy bonuses to a single attribute is counter-productive.

 

unfortunately, am thinking that the developers has gone to another extreme by removing accuracy from attributes. accuracy is still overwhelming important, but the developers has now reduced the player's ability to meaningful customize their character.  if the character generation choices is having less impact on the efficacy of a build, then such choices is necessarily less meaningful, no? furthermore, character development & customization choices that affect accuracy is now limited to class and talent choice. as such, those two options become even more vital. no doubt the developers need concern themselves that they is replacing one form o' character generation tyranny with another. as important as the accuracy boosting talents were before accuracy was insulated from attributes, now those limited talents will increase in significance.  have functional essential talents runs counter to the philosophy espoused by the developers regarding balance and meaningful customization.

 

we advocates constructive criticisms, so we would prefer another approach, a more balanced approach. as with deflection, reflex, will and fortitude, the developers could choose to have accuracy affected by multiple attributes.  it is not unreasonable to suggest that every attribute could affect accuracy.  resolve? well, being composed in pressure situations sounds like an aspect o' resolve, no? a greater tendency to be composed in combat would likely affect accuracy, yes?  can do same rationalization for almost all attributes.  am not suggesting that all attributes should modify accuracy equal, 'cause that results in the same situation as no attribute being linked to accuracy.  even so, we could envision three or four such contributing accuracy modifying attributes. one might even provide some kinda synergy bonus for maintaining balance between those four abilities. got four accuracy abilities and difference 'tween highest and lowest o' the 4 attributes is =0 results in a bonus. get slightly smaller bonus if difference =1. etc. sure, min-maxers would still be rewarded as they always is in games such as poe, but if you build in a meaningful bonus that requires a more balanced attribute spread, am suspecting we will see more variation in character builds.

 

we got no doubt the developers can come up with a better solution than has Gromnir in the span o' a few moments o' reflection.  regardless, the current plan to remove attribute-based accuracy modifiers strikes us as flawed.  the ultimate solution is likely to go back to square 1 and make accuracy less significant to poe combat mechanics, but such a change at this late date does not strike us as practical.  even so, to have a quality as important/vital as accuracy in a crpg and to chose to reduce/eliminate options for customization and modification o' that quality strikes us bordering on crpg heresy... not that we believe in crpg heresies btw.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

edit: weird jumble of two paragraphs

Edited February 1, 2015 by Gromnir

[Luckmann]

accuracy is overwhelming important to most poe characters. 

 

[...]

 

That's not true any more, though. They fixed the multiplier/integer bug(s), which has significantly devalued accuracy and individual character's reliance on it.

 

I would not mind trying out whether Accuracy from Perception works again or not. Right now I think the stats are a bit wonky (especially how both +AoE and +Duration is tied to Intelligence and Resolve now will be something of an oddity for Paladins to pick, rather than the chief stat you'd expect them to take, but both those issues are really separate points).

[Gromnir]

 

accuracy is overwhelming important to most poe characters. 

 

[...]

 

That's not true any more, though. They fixed the multiplier/integer bug(s), which has significantly devalued accuracy and individual character's reliance on it.

 

I would not mind trying out whether Accuracy from Perception works again or not. Right now I think the stats are a bit wonky (especially how both +AoE and +Duration is tied to Intelligence and Resolve now will be something of an oddity for Paladins to pick, rather than the chief stat you'd expect them to take, but both those issues are really separate points).

 

accuracy is less important now than it were in some earlier builds, but it is still extreme important.  am thinking it would be a bit disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Luckmann]

I wouldn't call it "overwhelming" or "extreme(ly)", but fair enough. Honestly, before we have our hands on the rebalanced Backer Beta as well as the actual changes, it's very hard to tell for sure. But based on what we know, Might should be more valuable now in some (all?) regards.

The complete no-brainer of taking absolutely anything that adds +Accuracy should be gone. Other things can compete with it now.

[Gromnir]

I wouldn't call it "overwhelming" or "extreme(ly)", but fair enough. Honestly, before we have our hands on the rebalanced Backer Beta as well as the actual changes, it's very hard to tell for sure. But based on what we know, Might should be more valuable now in some (all?) regards.

 

The complete no-brainer of taking absolutely anything that adds +Accuracy should be gone. Other things can compete with it now.

we will need to see actual new build, but from what we can tell, particular with how graze and crits is still being calculated, accuracy is having more immediate and significant impact on damage totals than is might.  is no longer at OMG level o' wackiness for crit damage totals, but accuracy is still a major concern, yes? if any one attribute were the accuracy attribute, it would still be the no-brainer for the vast majority o' characters and builds.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Odd Hermit]

accuracy is overwhelming important to most poe characters. 

 

...

 

above observation creates a dilemma for the developers. have accuracy tied to a single attribute necessarily makes that attribute "overwhelming important" too.  given developer goals regarding balance and their intent to makes multiple character builds viable, linking accuracy bonuses to a single attribute is counter-productive.

 

unfortunately, am thinking that the developers has gone to another extreme by removing accuracy from attributes. accuracy is still overwhelming important, but the developers has now reduced the player's ability to meaningful customize their character.  if the character generation choices is having less impact on the efficacy of a build, then such choices is necessarily less meaningful, no?

 

I disagree. Accuracy can't be an significant character creation choice because it's essential for every build to successfully land their swings, shots, spells, etc. It was just the obvious choice and that isn't meaningful.

 

The other stats still have significant benefits, they're just more of a choice than a requirement to be effective. You don't need longer durations or bigger AoEs, these just improve different aspects of your abilities. They come at opportunity cost, but they're not binary like accuracy.

 

Accuracy on the other hand is all or nothing. If you have terrible accuracy it's not going to matter if you have +15% damage, +24% AoE size, and +30% duration on your debuff ability if the ability just whiffs altogether frequently. It's an unreasonable trade-off to lower accuracy for these benefits.

[Karkarov]

As long as accuracy is tied to your chance to graze and crit it will be a huge stat.  The combat mechanics of Eternity simply place a huge amount of importance on the ability to negate misses and grazes much like certain uh other games....  Even in the current system which we will get to test for real soon I expect accuracy is still too strong, especially for people who use faster lower damage weapons.

[aeonsim]

I'd certainly agree accuracy was overwhelmingly important to all classes because of it's impact on the Graze, Hit, Critical hit range. For spell casters especially accuracy as a attribute was the logical choice as with both damage and duration being effected by it, it could and did have a big effect on how powerful there spells were. Being able to push a paralysis, stun, stuck or petrified status effect from 5s, to 10s or 15s (base 10) makes a massive difference in combat.

 

I'd have personally like to have seen accuracy possibly split between 2 or 3 attributes (Might, Perception, Resolve) with 0.5 or 1 point assigned to each but that would probably still have had some issues.

[Endrosz]

 

(I wrote this from memory, I might be wrong somewhere.)

Yeah you are wrong.

 

Miss 0-15

Graze 16-50

Hit 51-105

Crit: 106+

 

 

If I recall correctly, the new table comes from a Something Awful post by Sawyer, quoted here by you. I can't find that quote, though, I searched at least 5 minutes for it. I distinctly remember grazes being also reduced in that table, but it might be a plan that was discarded.

[Karkarov]

So what does perception modify now? Only range?

Oh yeah in case no one answered this...

 

No, range is no longer on the stat either.  It now buffs interrupt chance (just like it did in the beginning) and it increases reflex saves.

[Luckmann]

 

So what does perception modify now? Only range?

Oh yeah in case no one answered this...

 

No, range is no longer on the stat either.  It now buffs interrupt chance (just like it did in the beginning) and it increases reflex saves.

 

 

It always increased reflex saves, though. It was just unlisted before.

 

That being said, I'm also sad to see +Range gone. It was interesting, and in this game could be fairly relevant. Less so due to "Combat Only"-abilities and gimped scouting/party Stealth, though, which is all kinds of sad.

[forgottenlor]

 

So what does perception modify now? Only range?

Oh yeah in case no one answered this...

 

No, range is no longer on the stat either.  It now buffs interrupt chance (just like it did in the beginning) and it increases reflex saves.

 

 

It seems a strange decision to me, since many people who playtested the earliest version were dumping perception. I'm not saying interrupt is bad, it just seems like a difficult mechanic to convey. I always thought modifying critical hit chance, piercing damage resistance, or increasing range were easier mechanics to understand since they also exist in other games.

Edited February 2, 2015 by forgottenlor

[Luckmann]

 

 

So what does perception modify now? Only range?

Oh yeah in case no one answered this...

 

No, range is no longer on the stat either.  It now buffs interrupt chance (just like it did in the beginning) and it increases reflex saves.

 

 

It seems a strange decision to me, since many people who playtested the earliest version were dumping perception. I'm not saying interrupt is bad, it just seems like a difficult mechanic to convey. I always thought modifying critical hit chance, piercing damage resistance, or increasing range were easier mechanics to understand since they also exist in other games.

 

 

Honestly, my first thought when I got into the BB was "Interrupt? Is that really that useful, how often do you face casters, anyway...?".

 

I'm still a bit confused, truth be told. My first idea for a character was a duelist (rapier) Paladin with high Perception and Resolve. But now I'll be really damn hard pressed to ever take Perception, and Resolve is a pretty bum stat for Paladins, so.. yeah.

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

So what does perception modify now? Only range?

Oh yeah in case no one answered this...

 

No, range is no longer on the stat either.  It now buffs interrupt chance (just like it did in the beginning) and it increases reflex saves.

 

 

It seems a strange decision to me, since many people who playtested the earliest version were dumping perception. I'm not saying interrupt is bad, it just seems like a difficult mechanic to convey. I always thought modifying critical hit chance, piercing damage resistance, or increasing range were easier mechanics to understand since they also exist in other games.

 

 

Honestly, my first thought when I got into the BB was "Interrupt? Is that really that useful, how often do you face casters, anyway...?".

 

I'm still a bit confused, truth be told. My first idea for a character was a duelist (rapier) Paladin with high Perception and Resolve. But now I'll be really damn hard pressed to ever take Perception, and Resolve is a pretty bum stat for Paladins, so.. yeah.

 

interrupt has the potential to be very useful as it interrupts more than just casters.  as far as we can tell, just about any current queued action can be interrupted.  it is unfortunate, but from a practical pov, am complete baffled by how interrupt is modified by abilities.  am recalling back in summer 2014, folks took a shot at explaining the math behind interrupt and it seemed to be a mess. regardless, it appeared as if the attribute modification o' interrupt chance were very small.

 

in the early bb releases, we had an extreme useful ranger that were based on an interrupt concept, but as our current ranger's summoned bear is no longer a meat-shield but rather a twisted s&m pain transfer device, our dedicated interrupter no longer has appeal. 

 

HA! Good Fun!