USA : State of the Union Address

[BruceVC]

So I watched large parts of it and I was very impressed, especially with all the irrefutable positive developments  that have occurred under Obama's presidency. He really needs to get some credit, I obviously don't get it because despite all these positive steps people still seem to dislike and criticize him "as the worst president ever ever " 

So lets discuss the truth and fiction around parts of his speech

 

• American unemployment rate lower its ever been since 1999
• The American economy is out of the recession and has achieved the best recovery of any country since the financial crisis of 2008
• America is less dependant on foreign oil than its ever been in 30 years
• Obama has effectively ended American major military  American involvement in places like Iraq and Afghanistan despite a time under Bush where American commitment to these conflicts seemed interminable 
• Increased Tax rates on the rich will help the poor and middle class

 

So to our American friends, are you not happy with the State of the Nation? I always though the economy was one of  the best benchmarks to measure a US president ...and your economy is looking great?

[BruceVC]

There were also some clever and humorous responses from Obama, he said " I have no more campaigns to win, my only agenda  '"  ...and he was interrupted when  some Republicans started clapping. Obama smiled, looked to his left and  responded obviously out of script " I know, because I won the last two of them "  

 

Very funny response 

Edited January 21, 2015 by BruceVC

[Valsuelm]

LOL.

 

What 'irrefutable positive developments'? If you walked down Main Street USA and interviewed a bunch of random Americans, you'll be hard pressed to find many people, even democrats, that would say something like that.

 

 

So I watched large parts of it and I was very impressed, especially with all the irrefutable positive developments  that have occurred under Obama's presidency. He really needs to get some credit, I obviously don't get it because despite all these positive steps people still seem to dislike and criticize him "as the worst president ever ever " 

So lets discuss the truth and fiction around parts of his speech

 

• American unemployment rate lower its ever been since 1999 - Nope, the figures he cites are fabricated and do not account for very large numbers of people not working.
• The American economy is out of the recession and has achieved the best recovery of any country since the financial crisis of 2008 - Hogwash, but even if true, Obama has little to nothing to do with it.
• America is less dependant on foreign oil than its ever been in 30 years - Maybe, but even if true, Obama has nothing to do with it.
• Obama has effectively ended American major military  American involvement in places like Iraq and Afghanistan despite a time under Bush where American commitment to these conflicts seemed interminable - Obama did no such thing. As I mentioned in another thread, we just sent more troops to Iraq, and all indications are that more will be on their way later this year. Also, the supposed complete withdrawal from Iraq was something Bush agreed to and Obama just saw through as he was obligated to (but we never really completely left), and Obama also decided to keep troops in Iraq longer than Bush had initially agreed to. Obama also increased the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to numbers higher than when Bush was in office before those numbers were brought down. And we're still in Afghanistan. And we're in Liberia. And there was that whole Libya thing. Do you really think Obama deserves his Nobel Peace prize still?
• Increased Tax rates on the rich will help the poor and middle class - Absolutely not.

 

So to our American friends, are you not happy with the State of the Nation? I always though the economy was one of  the best benchmarks to measure a US president ...and your economy is looking great? - The economy at any given time is actually not a good way to measure the current president at all. The President rarely has much to do with economic policy, and the macro-economic policy of the government doesn't even always impact the economy in a meaningful positive way. (more often than not it's negative if anything; positives are usually just an alleviation of the negatives and not really positives). And the nature of economic policy is such that whatever it is today, the effects of it are almost never felt until many years down the road. ie: What the Federal Reserve Bank (the entity commonly associated with US Federal government policy even though it's a private institution) does today, isn't felt in the economy at large for a few or more years to come (most of the time).

 

Also. Obama aside, the State of the Union has sadly become little more than an opportunity for the president to campaign or propagandize. It's been many many many years since any President gave a State of the Union address that wasn't mostly or totally full of hot air.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/20/obama-has-worst-state-union-record-ford-study-show/

https://grabien.com/story.php?id=20735

Edited January 21, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Orogun01]

So I watched large parts of it and I was very impressed, especially with all the irrefutable positive developments  that have occurred under Obama's presidency. He really needs to get some credit, I obviously don't get it because despite all these positive steps people still seem to dislike and criticize him "as the worst president ever ever " 

So lets discuss the truth and fiction around parts of his speech

 

• American unemployment rate lower its ever been since 1999
• The American economy is out of the recession and has achieved the best recovery of any country since the financial crisis of 2008
• America is less dependant on foreign oil than its ever been in 30 years
• Obama has effectively ended American major military  American involvement in places like Iraq and Afghanistan despite a time under Bush where American commitment to these conflicts seemed interminable 
• Increased Tax rates on the rich will help the poor and middle class

 

So to our American friends, are you not happy with the State of the Nation? I always though the economy was one of  the best benchmarks to measure a US president ...and your economy is looking great?

Yeah but as usual with politics is one step forward and two steps back, this presidency thing is  game of beautiful corpse that means that the next guy will have to deal with the fallout of decisions made on this presidency. It was like that with Clinton and it will be like this with Obama and he did some really bad things as a president, man would make Nixon look good in comparison.

[ManifestedISO]

The state of my personal union is still a singularity. Not sure how to proceed. 

[Valsuelm]

 

So I watched large parts of it and I was very impressed, especially with all the irrefutable positive developments  that have occurred under Obama's presidency. He really needs to get some credit, I obviously don't get it because despite all these positive steps people still seem to dislike and criticize him "as the worst president ever ever " 

So lets discuss the truth and fiction around parts of his speech

 

• American unemployment rate lower its ever been since 1999
• The American economy is out of the recession and has achieved the best recovery of any country since the financial crisis of 2008
• America is less dependant on foreign oil than its ever been in 30 years
• Obama has effectively ended American major military  American involvement in places like Iraq and Afghanistan despite a time under Bush where American commitment to these conflicts seemed interminable 
• Increased Tax rates on the rich will help the poor and middle class

 

So to our American friends, are you not happy with the State of the Nation? I always though the economy was one of  the best benchmarks to measure a US president ...and your economy is looking great?

Yeah but as usual with politics is one step forward and two steps back, this presidency thing is  game of beautiful corpse that means that the next guy will have to deal with the fallout of decisions made on this presidency. It was like that with Clinton and it will be like this with Obama and he did some really bad things as a president, man would make Nixon look good in comparison.

 

 

If there was an election tomorrow where Obama ran against any of the Presidents that were in office in the last 50 years, the only one I think he might have a chance of beating would be Bush Jr.. Maybe. All of the others would win by a wide to very wide margin, even Nixon, Ford, or Carter. (this of course assumes they were all still alive, though I'm sure many would rather have a rotting corpse as President than Obama. )

Edited January 21, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Leferd]

I enjoyed the speech. It was well crafted (and delivered) and it made me feel good as an American and for atleast one night --allowed for some optimism in this country without the usual cynicsm and destructive partisanship that's prevalent in Washington and internet forums worldwide.

 

The State of the Union is our annual reminder that the state of the union is strong. It's good, positive reinforcement that'll help me go about my business tomorrow and do my part in making this country better. Just hearing the President saying the State of the Union is strong really is a good morale booster. As is highlighting the accomplishments and struggles of both the most extraordinary of us and the mundane. It's folksy, it's kitsch, but it's also endearing and brings us closer as a nation as we acknowledge those that share in our American experience.

 

I prefer the idealism of government as a force for good as portrayed in the West Wing than what's happening in Washington today. Obama's appeal for compromise is a reflection of that ideal and atleast for a few hours tonight, it gives me some ray of hope.

 

Well done POTUS.

[BruceVC]

I enjoyed the speech. It was well crafted (and delivered) and it made me feel good as an American and for atleast one night --allowed for some optimism in this country without the usual cynicsm and destructive partisanship that's prevalent in Washington and internet forums worldwide.

 

The State of the Union is our annual reminder that the state of the union is strong. It's good, positive reinforcement that'll help me go about my business tomorrow and do my part in making this country better. Just hearing the President saying the State of the Union is strong really is a good morale booster. As is highlighting the accomplishments and struggles of both the most extraordinary of us and the mundane. It's folksy, it's kitsch, but it's also endearing and brings us closer as a nation as we acknowledge those that share in our American experience.

 

I prefer the idealism of government as a force for good as portrayed in the West Wing than what's happening in Washington today. Obama's appeal for compromise is a reflection of that ideal and atleast for a few hours tonight, it gives me some ray of hope.

 

Well done POTUS.

 

Thankfully some positivity at last from these forums around the state of the USA and Obamas speech,  you are my hero Leferd. I want to marry you    

 

I'll respond in more detail later  to other comments (Vals, Orog and others ) , I'm about to start my training course so I don't have time now

[ManifestedISO]

Well he doesn't want to marry you, so dry up the tears, it was good post, don't ruin it. 

[Blarghagh]

Yeah, as an outside observer my impression has always been that Obama is saving that country from self-destruction - I'm always weirded out by Americans claiming otherwise, but I figure they live there so they must know best or something? I remember when Bush was in office that literally every single thing the European news reported about him was face-slappingly stupid and the same things counted for McCain when he was running and... who was the other guy Obama ran against? The Mormon dude who made fun of the poor and believed euthanasia was mandatory for the elderly in my country? I can't recall, but he was a real piece of work. If that guy had won that country would have been down the toilet in a year. He would have probably pressed a button and nuked New York by accident. What an absolute tosser that guy was, I think the fact that his campaign got so far is the most damning evidence of the decline of the American people that exists.

 

EDIT: Note, I'm not saying Europe's faring any better. Just pointing it out. A sizable part of my country voted for who is essentially a Captain Ersatz of Hitler last election. We're all in the gutter.

[HoonDing]

So I watched large parts of it and I was very impressed, especially with all the irrefutable positive developments  that have occurred under Obama's presidency. He really needs to get some credit, I obviously don't get it because despite all these positive steps people still seem to dislike and criticize him "as the worst president ever ever " 

So lets discuss the truth and fiction around parts of his speech

 

• American unemployment rate lower its ever been since 1999
• The American economy is out of the recession and has achieved the best recovery of any country since the financial crisis of 2008
• America is less dependant on foreign oil than its ever been in 30 years
• Obama has effectively ended American major military  American involvement in places like Iraq and Afghanistan despite a time under Bush where American commitment to these conflicts seemed interminable 
• Increased Tax rates on the rich will help the poor and middle class

 

So to our American friends, are you not happy with the State of the Nation? I always though the economy was one of  the best benchmarks to measure a US president ...and your economy is looking great?

• Location:Johannesburg, South Africa

[Enoch]

Meh.  Political rhetoric is fundamentally uninteresting.  Let me know when they have actual legislative language to go with all that stuff. 

[Meshugger]

Meh.  Political rhetoric is fundamentally uninteresting.  Let me know when they have actual legislative language to go with all that stuff. 

 

 Yup.

 

Any reasons why the economy and employment gotten better? Cheap oil prices? Market growth in certain sectors? Banks starting to invest again?

[Hurlshort]

It's not like the President is going to get up and focus on the negatives.  

 

But honestly you can't gauge how effective Obama has been at this point, it really takes at least a decade to get enough context and perspective to evaluate a President.  My gut reaction is he has been remarkably average, missing more opportunities than he has grasped.  His biggest success has been repairing foreign relations, which is why a lot of international members here view him favorably.  Heck, he took the first steps with Cuba, which could turn into something interesting, likely depending on the next administration.  

 

His biggest miss for me is the Patriot Act crap.    

[Gorgon]

The president has nothing to do with the economy and he always gets the blame, or the praise, anyway. It's tradition. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Yeah, as an outside observer my impression has always been that Obama is saving that country from self-destruction - I'm always weirded out by Americans claiming otherwise, but I figure they live there so they must know best or something? I remember when Bush was in office that literally every single thing the European news reported about him was face-slappingly stupid and the same things counted for McCain when he was running and... who was the other guy Obama ran against? The Mormon dude who made fun of the poor and believed euthanasia was mandatory for the elderly in my country? I can't recall, but he was a real piece of work. If that guy had won that country would have been down the toilet in a year. He would have probably pressed a button and nuked New York by accident. What an absolute tosser that guy was, I think the fact that his campaign got so far is the most damning evidence of the decline of the American people that exists.

 

EDIT: Note, I'm not saying Europe's faring any better. Just pointing it out. A sizable part of my country voted for who is essentially a Captain Ersatz of Hitler last election. We're all in the gutter.

It was Mitt Romney.

 

[Shallow]

Yeah, as an outside observer my impression has always been that Obama is saving that country from self-destruction - I'm always weirded out by Americans claiming otherwise, but I figure they live there so they must know best or something? I remember when Bush was in office that literally every single thing the European news reported about him was face-slappingly stupid and the same things counted for McCain when he was running and... who was the other guy Obama ran against? The Mormon dude who made fun of the poor and believed euthanasia was mandatory for the elderly in my country? I can't recall, but he was a real piece of work. If that guy had won that country would have been down the toilet in a year. He would have probably pressed a button and nuked New York by accident. What an absolute tosser that guy was, I think the fact that his campaign got so far is the most damning evidence of the decline of the American people that exists.

 

EDIT: Note, I'm not saying Europe's faring any better. Just pointing it out. A sizable part of my country voted for who is essentially a Captain Ersatz of Hitler last election. We're all in the gutter.

The Mormon guy and the guy who claimed that stuff about the elderly in the Netherlands were two different people. Whilst Obama doesn't say as much stupid crap as Bush policy wise I'd say he's worse, he appeals to different emotions in his speeches, and he targets a different demographic, the liberal side of the US is a lot closer to Europe than the conservative side, so of course you news aren't going to show him nearly as bad, and of course the statements he make aren't going to look nearly as stupid from a less religious conservative perspective.  Policy wise I'd say Obama's been even worse than Bush, although he's been moving down the same road at close to the same pace.

[Blarghagh]

Yeah could be, I suppose people who live there know best. And it was definitely Mitt Romney who said that, so is he not the Mormon then? I forget.

[Shallow]

Yeah could be, I suppose people who live there know best. And it was definitely Mitt Romney who said that, so is he not the Mormon then? I forget.

Nah, it was Rick Santorum http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/euthanasia-in-the-netherlands-rick-santorums-bogus-statistics/2012/02/21/gIQAJaRbSR_blog.html , didn't read the article, just posted to show he said it.

[Valsuelm]

Whether he said it or not doesn't really matter. Whoever said it said it for political effect. Truth doesn't matter when you're a politician trying to illicit fear of X in those who are listening to you while spouting the message that you will protect them from X. Whether X is real of imagined doesn't matter, and the majority of the time it's imagined.

 

Obama is just as guilty of saying nonsensical things to galvanize those he's aiming his message at (evidence of that is in this thread). At the national level, in pretty much every western nation, you are hard pressed to find candidates that are not guilty of such things. There has been no Democrat or Republican nominee for President in my lifetime that is not guilty of such things (though some are worse than others and I'd put Obama and all of the other major party nominees for President in the last 3 elections near the top of the list of the worst).

Edited January 21, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Blarghagh]

Huh, I stand corrected. Thanks for that. Man those two look alike, though. Is there only one kind of republican?

[Orogun01]

The president has nothing to do with the economy and he always gets the blame, or the praise, anyway. It's tradition. 

Wasn't it a president that started that whole Federal Reserve stuff?

[Valsuelm]

 

The president has nothing to do with the economy and he always gets the blame, or the praise, anyway. It's tradition. 

Wasn't it a president that started that whole Federal Reserve stuff?

 

 

No...

 

A President may have signed it in to law, but that President was not at all one of it's architects (I suggest this documentary or the work of Bill Still (most of it is sadly not freely available on youtube anymore) in general for some enlightenment on who was behind it). That President happens to be one of the few I think that is very arguably worse than Obama (at least as of now... Obama has ~2 more years to gain the #1 spot on the worst presidents list, I think he has potential, but I hope he doesn't because that would mean really bad stuff).

Edited January 21, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Gorgon]

The fed is what passes for a national bank in the US and in terms of public image it is somewhere inbetween the Illuminati and Weyland Utani. 

 

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation. There is undeniably a need to regulate (as in influence, not legislate)  interest rates, inflation, economic activity, what have you, but giving this power to politicians would be tantamount to Communism. So they gave it to a sinister cabal instead. 

[Tigranes]

Huh, I stand corrected. Thanks for that. Man those two look alike, though. Is there only one kind of republican?

That's why you find some neuroscientists and social psychologists suspect voting has a lot more to do with a particular 'look' that is 'presidenty' than anything else - a look that is quite clearly culturally accumulated. I mean, take a guy that looks like Mitt Romney in a suit. If you were casting him in a play, what roles does he 'look right' for in a very stereotypical sense? Corporate manager, politician, banker...that's about it. 

 

I still am very sympathetic to Obama in the sense that I see a lot of not-great things done by everybody involved, but some of the Republican whinging trying to basically shut down the government, kill the budget, saying go on you have to shoot us all if you want to get anything done, is the most offensive to me. Perhaps my memories are skewed because I was only in the US for the Obama years, but I don't remember quite such levels from Democrats during the Bush years.