The culture of Rape, Bill Cosby Story

[HoonDing]

Yes is no, no is yes.

 

#rapeculture

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Hm, have to imagine most people think of violent crimes in dramatic ways barring any experience indirectly with it in their lives and more unpleasant than the average offense. Wil have to ask around but in the past people's idea of murder has been a violent attack or robbery rather than getting hit by missed shots or your husband, or something.

 

 

True enough, but you don't see people screaming "What do you mean, violent crimes aren't committed in a cultural vacuum? How dare you talk about the sociological background and cultural attitudes behind murder?" whenever someone tries to discuss the issue (on a podium, before an audience of about 10 bored-looking sociologists, because let's not kid ourselves, usually that's how those discussions go).

[Malcador]

True enough, but you don't see people screaming "What do you mean, violent crimes aren't committed in a cultural vacuum? How dare you talk about the sociological background and cultural attitudes behind murder?" whenever someone tries to discuss the issue (on a podium, before an audience of about 10 bored-looking sociologists, because let's not kid ourselves, usually that's how those discussions go).

I've seen that plenty of times, easiest to pluck, here in TO, would crime in the black community. While not saying that they are right or wrong, people get testy when someone approaches it in a way of the culture present there or something else. Perhaps it is a poor term chosen by whomever came up with this, on the first encounter with it one could be forgiven for thinking it means the culture is one permissive of rape and when someone says you are part of that it comes across as "You like rape!" which then leads to hackles up.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

My sentence was grammatically correct. 

 

 

Actually, it wasn't, but you're right, the reason behind it being nearly unintelligible was the weird structure of the sentence, not the fault in grammar. I apologise. 

 

 

 

Also the work worth is decided by both employer and employee.

 

 

Yeah, we both know how much influence the party whose only qualifications are "can do unskilled manual labor" has on the outcome of that negotiation.

Edited November 21, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Meshugger]

 

Rape Culture

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I've seen that plenty of times, easiest to pluck, here in TO, would crime in the black community. While not saying that they are right or wrong, people get testy when someone approaches it in a way of the culture present there or something else. Perhaps it is a poor term chosen by whomever came up with this, on the first encounter with it one could be forgiven for thinking it means the culture is one permissive of rape and when someone says you are part of that it comes across as "You like rape!" which then leads to hackles up.

 

 

Aye, I guess a lot of grief could be avoided in these discussions if you dirty feminists could just use a terminology that's not so damn inflammatory / you ignorant twats would just look up what people actually mean by using words that have very specific meanings in the specific context they're mentioned. (Everyone feel free to pick one according to the tribe they feel like belonging to).

Edited November 21, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Orogun01]

 

 

I've seen that plenty of times, easiest to pluck, here in TO, would crime in the black community. While not saying that they are right or wrong, people get testy when someone approaches it in a way of the culture present there or something else. Perhaps it is a poor term chosen by whomever came up with this, on the first encounter with it one could be forgiven for thinking it means the culture is one permissive of rape and when someone says you are part of that it comes across as "You like rape!" which then leads to hackles up.

 

 

Aye, I guess a lot of grief could be avoided in these discussions if you dirty feminists could just use a terminology that's not so damn inflammatory / you ignorant twats would just look up what people actually mean by using words that have very specific meanings in the specific context they're mentioned. (Everyone feel free to pick one according to the tribe they feel like belonging to).

 

Can we be the Obsidian tribe? I really don't like the other people on the web.

[Nonek]

In my opinion it is not a "rape culture" that is at fault for Mr Saville's (and Mr Cosby's if guilty) crimes, it is the celebrity culture which spits all over the law, equality and society at large. Celebrity is a leech upon us, that I personally hope is lanced at some point, especially when its heroes and heroines are men and women of such piffling to negative morals and talents.

 

As a point of interest Pater once threatened to knock Mr Saville on his arse, I was enormously proud of the old chap at that moment, and when the allegations against Mr Saville came to light decades later that pride bloomed again.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

I've seen that plenty of times, easiest to pluck, here in TO, would crime in the black community. While not saying that they are right or wrong, people get testy when someone approaches it in a way of the culture present there or something else. Perhaps it is a poor term chosen by whomever came up with this, on the first encounter with it one could be forgiven for thinking it means the culture is one permissive of rape and when someone says you are part of that it comes across as "You like rape!" which then leads to hackles up.

 

 

Aye, I guess a lot of grief could be avoided in these discussions if you dirty feminists could just use a terminology that's not so damn inflammatory / you ignorant twats would just look up what people actually mean by using words that have very specific meanings in the specific context they're mentioned. (Everyone feel free to pick one according to the tribe they feel like belonging to).

Can we be the Obsidian tribe? I really don't like the other people on the web.

Soon we will be forced to go somewhere else, so get comfortable with either 8chan or the Codex.

[BruceVC]

In my opinion it is not a "rape culture" that is at fault for Mr Saville's (and Mr Cosby's if guilty) crimes, it is the celebrity culture which spits all over the law, equality and society at large. Celebrity is a leech upon us, that I personally hope is lanced at some point, especially when its heroes and heroines are men and women of such piffling to negative morals and talents.

 

As a point of interest Pater once threatened to knock Mr Saville on his arse, I was enormously proud of the old chap at that moment, and when the allegations against Mr Saville came to light decades later that pride bloomed again.

 

But you seem to be ignoring the " good "  celebrities who use there fame and prestige to help less fortunate people, like Angelina Jolie and all her good work as an ambassador for the UN

 

So its definitely not all bad

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Soon we will be forced to go somewhere else, so get comfortable with either 8chan or the Codex.

 

 

What, you feel threatened here, of all places?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Soon we will be forced to go somewhere else, so get comfortable with either 8chan or the Codex.

 

 

What, you feel threatened here, of all places?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

[Walsingham]

 I would certainly reject Bruce VC's central theses: that we [defined here as the UK/US] have a culture of rape.

 

We do have too much rape. But if anything our culture - as you say - has made it illegal and dedicates substantial resources to prosecuting and punishing it.

 

A conviction for rape - unless you're some PoS desperate football team - is endsville for your social acceptance. The culture can hardly be accused of condoning the bloody thing.

 

In addition I do not see anything wrong or inconsistent with refusing to believe that our cherished icons have not committed rape. And of refusing to believe allegations. Again, this suggests that culturally we see rape as incompatible with virtue or our affection. 

 

The only weakness, if weakness there is, lies in proving rape in a criminal trial. That's not due to bad culture. That's an issue for forensic science.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Yeah, and you would make him a CEO if your life work and income would depend on it?

 

 

 

Seeing the astonishingly huge positive difference the publicly-acknowledged "greatest" CEOs make on the overall productivity of a company, I'd say sure, why the **** not?

 

 

 

 

Soon we will be forced to go somewhere else, so get comfortable with either 8chan or the Codex.

 

What, you feel threatened here, of all places?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

 

"To achieve their end, jokes may employ irony, sarcasm, word play and other devices."

 

 

 

Guess it must have been "other".

[Blarghagh]

 I would certainly reject Bruce VC's central theses: that we [defined here as the UK/US] have a culture of rape.

 

If we would do a comparative analysis, I'd say everyone gets off pretty well compared to India.

[Longknife]

Can we please calmly and objectively acknowledge a potential rape case without making outrageous claims like "a famous person was convicted of rape, THEREFORE WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT ACTIVELY CONDONES RAPE ALL THE TIME."

 

 

Before someone says "that's not what he said!" No, but he did basically word things in a way that suggests this is just one example of a larger, ongoing problem. Even if you agree with him, I do not think such hysterics in speaking is a good way to objectively address problems.

 

FFS, what is "rape culture?" Anyone gonna bother to define that or is it just one of those words we throw around? Because if the definition is "a culture where rape can occur," congrats, you just defined the entirety of Planet Earth since forever. If you think doing away with rape entirely is possible, congrats on being adorably naive.

 And if you think the USA somehow has higher rates of rape in the world than the average...? Actually, statistics suggest countries like Japan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE have the lowest rates while the USA and other modern countries are average.  CALL ME CRAZY, BUT SOMETHIN' TELLS ME THERE'S MORE TO IT WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE "RAPE-FREE" COUNTRIES REPORTIN' LESS RAPE...

 

 

 

Be objective.
Define things one step at a time.

Do not resort to exaggerated hysterics.

Discuss things factually and civilly.

That is how you bring about change.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Ok, guess I just leave it right here. I doubt I could give any more prove that you are just plain silly.

 

 

Feel free to crawl up in denial, really, but statistics consistently show that the competence of a CEO has exactly "f*ck" and "all" impact on the overall productivity of a company. I can look up the study for you, if you insist.

[Gfted1]

In my opinion it is not a "rape culture" that is at fault for Mr Saville's (and Mr Cosby's if guilty) crimes, it is the celebrity culture which spits all over the law, equality and society at large. Celebrity is a leech upon us, that I personally hope is lanced at some point, especially when its heroes and heroines are men and women of such piffling to negative morals and talents.

Until we have three precogs floating in a tank somewhere, were going to have to rely on crime victims to report the crimes.

[Nonek]

 

In my opinion it is not a "rape culture" that is at fault for Mr Saville's (and Mr Cosby's if guilty) crimes, it is the celebrity culture which spits all over the law, equality and society at large. Celebrity is a leech upon us, that I personally hope is lanced at some point, especially when its heroes and heroines are men and women of such piffling to negative morals and talents.

 

As a point of interest Pater once threatened to knock Mr Saville on his arse, I was enormously proud of the old chap at that moment, and when the allegations against Mr Saville came to light decades later that pride bloomed again.

 

But you seem to be ignoring the " good "  celebrities who use there fame and prestige to help less fortunate people, like Angelina Jolie and all her good work as an ambassador for the UN

 

So its definitely not all bad

 

 

No i'm not ignoring them, i'm failing to see a reason why her work is highlighted more than a UN worker who has spent years doing much more than Ms Jolie, but is ignored because of their lack of fame and attention seeking. We should not need these false idols, nor should we court them when common men and women die as heroes and heroines, and are buried unremarked and unlamented.

 

Fame, prestige and sickening amounts of wealth and over consumption should not be celebrated in my opinion, and yet it is. It is about time we considered celebrities to be normal people, paid them a fair wage and only celebrated them if their merits warrant it, and their contribution to society is greater than others.

 

This is merely my personal opinion however, and I admit that I am a very individual erm...individual, not at all accustomed to following the popular opinions and trends.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Nonek

[TrashMan]

Yes but Croatia is like Serbia, the place is a warzone isn't it

 

Nope.

A normal country. The crime rate here is lower than in the US.

 

Lots of corruption tough.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

Ok, guess I just leave it right here. I doubt I could give any more prove that you are just plain silly.

 

 

Feel free to crawl up in denial, really, but statistics consistently show that the competence of a CEO has exactly "f*ck" and "all" impact on the overall productivity of a company. I can look up the study for you, if you insist.

 

Sure provide me with a list of companies that was given to unskilled workers to lead. That should be a fun reading.

 

 

I obviously wouldn't let an unskilled laborer lead my company, because that would lead to investors losing faith etc. etc., but my point is, you could theoretically do it and not lose a significant amount of money (or at least not due to the incompetence of the leadership), if the studies are to be believed.

 

Which is why "I do management, I can't be replaced" people piss me off. Yes, you've undoubtedly studied a lot and worked hard for your position. Your competence still has very little to do with your success.

[TrashMan]

The very discussion we're having is pretty much rape culture in a nutshell.

 

Every time people picture a seedy-looking criminal forcing a young woman at knifepoint to have sex with them (Irréversible, anyone?) when thinking "rape"? Rape culture.

Every time people go "calling all sorts of nonconsensual sex 'rape' cheapens the word! YOU ARE THE REAL SEXIST"? Rape culture.

Every time you walk into a room with more than 5 women in it and not thinking "statistically, at least one of them was or will be raped during their lifetime"? Rape culture.

 

Essentially, treating rape as this sort of mythical Most Heinous of Crimes only absolute monsters commit instead of something that happens to a fifth of the female population some point in their lifetimes, in the overwhelming majority of cases done by people they're closely familiar with? That is rape culture.

 

 

Bulls***.

 

To everything.

Especially the last part. Where did those numbers come from anyway?

 

[Gfted1]

I always wondered how they came up with that 20% stat. How do you quantify what wasn't observed / reported? Im sure there are many many cases that go unreported but pulling some number out of the air always sounded fishy to me.

[Blarghagh]

 

The very discussion we're having is pretty much rape culture in a nutshell.

 

Every time people picture a seedy-looking criminal forcing a young woman at knifepoint to have sex with them (Irréversible, anyone?) when thinking "rape"? Rape culture.

Every time people go "calling all sorts of nonconsensual sex 'rape' cheapens the word! YOU ARE THE REAL SEXIST"? Rape culture.

Every time you walk into a room with more than 5 women in it and not thinking "statistically, at least one of them was or will be raped during their lifetime"? Rape culture.

 

Essentially, treating rape as this sort of mythical Most Heinous of Crimes only absolute monsters commit instead of something that happens to a fifth of the female population some point in their lifetimes, in the overwhelming majority of cases done by people they're closely familiar with? That is rape culture.

 

 

Bulls***.

 

To everything.

Especially the last part. Where did those numbers come from anyway?

 

 

 

Gromnir and I discussed this in another thread were we exchanged studies. The most recent CDC study was closer to 1 in 10 than 1 in 5, which is of course still ridiculously much and it's a real problem. Here's a catch though: That CDC study was about sexual violence and classified rape and other violence as different things. It also didn't classify anything other than the perpetrator using a male sexual organ as rape. If adjusted to also allow for "forced to penetrate someone", i.e. a woman raping a man in their definition of rape rather than calling that "other sexual violence", 1 in 10 of both women AND men reported being raped in their lifetime. I'll try and find the study.

 

EDIT: Had to use different terms for board language filter reasons.

 

EDIT EDIT: I believe this is the study: http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/cdc_nisvs_ipv_report_2013_v17_single_a.pdf

Edited November 21, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

The very discussion we're having is pretty much rape culture in a nutshell.

 

Every time people picture a seedy-looking criminal forcing a young woman at knifepoint to have sex with them (Irréversible, anyone?) when thinking "rape"? Rape culture.

Every time people go "calling all sorts of nonconsensual sex 'rape' cheapens the word! YOU ARE THE REAL SEXIST"? Rape culture.

Every time you walk into a room with more than 5 women in it and not thinking "statistically, at least one of them was or will be raped during their lifetime"? Rape culture.

 

Essentially, treating rape as this sort of mythical Most Heinous of Crimes only absolute monsters commit instead of something that happens to a fifth of the female population some point in their lifetimes, in the overwhelming majority of cases done by people they're closely familiar with? That is rape culture.

 

 

Bulls***.

 

To everything.

Especially the last part. Where did those numbers come from anyway?

 

 

Gromnir and I discussed this in another thread were we exchanged studies. The most recent CDC study was closer to 1 in 10 than 1 in 5, which is of course still ridiculously much and it's a real problem. Here's a catch though: That CDC study was about sexual violence and classified rape and other violence as different things. It also didn't classify anything other than the perpetrator using a male sexual organ as rape. If adjusted to also allow for "forced to penetrate someone", i.e. a woman raping a man in their definition of rape rather than calling that "other sexual violence", 1 in 10 of both women AND men reported being raped in their lifetime. I'll try and find the study.

 

 

I stand corrected.

 

Correction: Every time you walk into a room with at least 10 people in it and not thinking "statistically, at least one of them was or will be raped during their lifetime"? Rape culture.

 

 

My point still stands, though.

 

(I also love how Trashman just went "bull****" and provided no counter-arguments whatsoever, as if he just wanted to prove my "his higher cognitive functions simply shut down when encountering even vaguely feminist-sounding terminology" theory.)

Edited November 21, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid