Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[JadedWolf]

An apology at gunpoint is never a real apology. Just like torture has unreliable results because people will break eventually and just tell you what you want to hear... When you mob someone via news networks and social media they may cave just from the multi-angled pressure. We also don't know if he received internal pressure from his employers which just gives me the picture of a boy folding his arms and aplogizing to his sister because his mother just threatened punishment for the child pulling the sisters hair. Is the boy truly sorry? Maybe, but it is equally likely he is just getting his mom off his back.

 

I hate to speak for JadedWolf, but I think he is saying that over time these silly explosions, if they continue to be over such "frivolous" things, will inevitably give the public a sort of "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. I can't say I disagree. This constant noise from the net, TV, etc surely cause desensitization over time.

 

I don't think he was pressured (edit: by his employers!), seeing that the apology came completely out of the blue. He was actually asked how the "science was comparing to the data collected by the Rosetta orbiter", and instead of answering the question he broke down and came with the apology. This wasn't some staged press conference, this was a man who probably lost a night's sleep over this and hasn't been able to think about anything else, and just had to get this out of his system. You can see his colleagues around the table feel sorry for him. They probably think this is just as ridiculous as we do.

 

As for examples. Well, let's imagine tomorrow a woman goes to a job interview and the recruiter makes an offending remark about her being a woman. Now, she doesn't have any proof as it's her word against his word. But there's a grassroots movement to boycott the company involved, in which many of the ladies are involved who also were involved in this incident. In this case, of course, they'd be very right to get involved. However, many people who are familiar with this incident will see the headline, then see who is involved in it, and think to themselves "Oh right, the shirt ladies found something new to be offended about, nevermind that!"

Edited November 15, 2014 by JadedWolf

[JadedWolf]

BruceVC: If the scientist guy needs to appologize for his choice of clothing, should rape victims have to do that as well?

 

I really don't think comments like this are very helpful.

[BruceVC]

 

An apology at gunpoint is never a real apology. Just like torture has unreliable results because people will break eventually and just tell you what you want to hear... When you mob someone via news networks and social media they may cave just from the multi-angled pressure. We also don't know if he received internal pressure from his employers which just gives me the picture of a boy folding his arms and aplogizing to his sister because his mother just threatened punishment for the child pulling the sisters hair. Is the boy truly sorry? Maybe, but it is equally likely he is just getting his mom off his back.

 

I hate to speak for JadedWolf, but I think he is saying that over time these silly explosions, if they continue to be over such "frivolous" things, will inevitably give the public a sort of "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. I can't say I disagree. This constant noise from the net, TV, etc surely cause desensitization over time.

 

I don't think he was pressured (edit: by his employers!), seeing that the apology came completely out of the blue. He was actually asked how the "science was comparing to the data collected by the Rosetta orbiter", and instead of answering the question he broke down and came with the apology. This wasn't some staged press conference, this was a man who probably lost a night's sleep over this and hasn't been able to think about anything else, and just had to get this out of his system. You can see his colleagues around the table feel sorry for him. They probably think this is just as ridiculous as we do.

 

As for examples. Well, let's imagine tomorrow a woman goes to a job interview and the recruiter makes an offending remark about her being a woman. Now, she doesn't have any proof as it's her word against his word. But there's a grassroots movement to boycott the company involved, in which many of the ladies are involved who also were involved in this incident. In this case, of course, they'd be very right to get involved. However, many people who are familiar with this incident will see the headline, then see who is involved in it, and think to themselves "Oh right, the shirt ladies found something new to be offended about, nevermind that!"

 

 

That's interesting example, I see your point. Fair enough, it can potentially diminish this type of event if its real the next time.

[Meshugger]

 

BruceVC: If the scientist guy needs to appologize for his choice of clothing, should rape victims have to do that as well?

 

I really don't think comments like this are very helpful.

 

 

I am sorry, but my jimmies are seriously rustled when i found out that he had to publicly appologize. It's not a question of different opinion, it is a grand declaration of war to everything that is good in this world. The gloves are now off and it is open season.

[JadedWolf]

 

 

BruceVC: If the scientist guy needs to appologize for his choice of clothing, should rape victims have to do that as well?

 

I really don't think comments like this are very helpful.

 

 

I am sorry, but my jimmies are seriously rustled when i found out that he had to publicly appologize. It's not a question of different opinion, it is a grand declaration of war to everything that is good in this world. The gloves are now off and it is open season.

 

 

I know, I am angry about it too. But bringing rape victims into it, even in jest, really doesn't help. I know you don't mean harm with it, but imagine one of our board members might actually have a history of being raped and they'd see your comment. It's not your intention to hurt anyone (with possible exception of Bruce) but you might still, inadvertently.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

BruceVC: If the scientist guy needs to appologize for his choice of clothing, should rape victims have to do that as well?

 

I really don't think comments like this are very helpful.

 

 

I am sorry, but my jimmies are seriously rustled when i found out that he had to publicly appologize. It's not a question of different opinion, it is a grand declaration of war to everything that is good in this world. The gloves are now off and it is open season.

 

 

I know, I am angry about it too. But bringing rape victims into it, even in jest, really doesn't help. I know you don't mean harm with it, but imagine one of our board members might actually have a history of being raped and they'd see your comment. It's not your intention to hurt anyone (with possible exception of Bruce) but you might still, inadvertently.

 

 

No he hasn't hurt me at all but you are right about those types of comments being potentially very hurtful to others

 

I just get annoyed that people want to try to diminish the heinous deed of rape in order to make a point

[Meshugger]

Also, this with Pakman being labeled as bully for covering GG.

 

There's not much a lone guy can do, but atleast i will not continue see this situation as something funny for an outside observer. I now see it as a force of hatred that tries to put humankind down the ****ter as fast as possible, and i will try to expose them as the frauds they are. They have continued to use bully tactics and shame to get what they want, and what the want is power. They are "progressive" as in terms of making people hate themselves, their friends and society at large because it is not their kind of progressiveness.

 

These.****ing.people.  

 

That's why i ask Bruce and everyone that agrees with him: What is morally good by supporting this kinds of ideas?

[TrashMan]

 

No he hasn't hurt me at all but you are right about those types of comments being potentially very hurtful to others

 

I just get annoyed that people want to try to diminish the heinous deed of rape in order to make a point

 

 

I don't think it's possible to diminish it.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

BruceVC: If the scientist guy needs to appologize for his choice of clothing, should rape victims have to do that as well?

 

I really don't think comments like this are very helpful.

 

 

I am sorry, but my jimmies are seriously rustled when i found out that he had to publicly appologize. It's not a question of different opinion, it is a grand declaration of war to everything that is good in this world. The gloves are now off and it is open season.

 

 

I know, I am angry about it too. But bringing rape victims into it, even in jest, really doesn't help. I know you don't mean harm with it, but imagine one of our board members might actually have a history of being raped and they'd see your comment. It's not your intention to hurt anyone (with possible exception of Bruce) but you might still, inadvertently.

 

 

No he hasn't hurt me at all but you are right about those types of comments being potentially very hurtful to others

 

I just get annoyed that people want to try to diminish the heinous deed of rape in order to make a point

 

 

Stop dodging the question, stop trying shift this about hurtful comments and answer already. Why should he be judged on his clothing and others should not? What morally good comes out of this?

[BruceVC]

Also, this with Pakman being labeled as bully for covering GG.

 

There's not much a lone guy can do, but atleast i will not continue see this situation as something funny for an outside observer. I now see it as a force of hatred that tries to put humankind down the ****ter as fast as possible, and i will try to expose them as the frauds they are. They have continued to use bully tactics and shame to get what they want, and what the want is power. They are "progressive" as in terms of making people hate themselves, their friends and society at large because it is not their kind of progressiveness.

 

These.****ing.people.  

 

That's why i ask Bruce and everyone that agrees with him: What is morally good by supporting this kinds of ideas?

 

Dude come on, you are being very dramatic..you can't be serious?

 

You are taking this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaay  too seriously

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

BruceVC: If the scientist guy needs to appologize for his choice of clothing, should rape victims have to do that as well?

 

I really don't think comments like this are very helpful.

 

 

I am sorry, but my jimmies are seriously rustled when i found out that he had to publicly appologize. It's not a question of different opinion, it is a grand declaration of war to everything that is good in this world. The gloves are now off and it is open season.

 

 

I know, I am angry about it too. But bringing rape victims into it, even in jest, really doesn't help. I know you don't mean harm with it, but imagine one of our board members might actually have a history of being raped and they'd see your comment. It's not your intention to hurt anyone (with possible exception of Bruce) but you might still, inadvertently.

 

 

No he hasn't hurt me at all but you are right about those types of comments being potentially very hurtful to others

 

I just get annoyed that people want to try to diminish the heinous deed of rape in order to make a point

 

 

Stop dodging the question, stop trying shift this about hurtful comments and answer already. Why should he be judged on his clothing and others should not? What morally good comes out of this?

 

Of course others are judged on there clothing, that's the nature of society. We judge people everyday about there appearances

[Keyrock]

 

Also, this with Pakman being labeled as bully for covering GG.

 

There's not much a lone guy can do, but atleast i will not continue see this situation as something funny for an outside observer. I now see it as a force of hatred that tries to put humankind down the ****ter as fast as possible, and i will try to expose them as the frauds they are. They have continued to use bully tactics and shame to get what they want, and what the want is power. They are "progressive" as in terms of making people hate themselves, their friends and society at large because it is not their kind of progressiveness.

 

These.****ing.people.  

 

That's why i ask Bruce and everyone that agrees with him: What is morally good by supporting this kinds of ideas?

 

Dude come on, you are being very dramatic..you can't be serious?

 

You are taking this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaay  too seriously

 

Irony level: CRITICAL

[Meshugger]

 

Also, this with Pakman being labeled as bully for covering GG.

 

There's not much a lone guy can do, but atleast i will not continue see this situation as something funny for an outside observer. I now see it as a force of hatred that tries to put humankind down the ****ter as fast as possible, and i will try to expose them as the frauds they are. They have continued to use bully tactics and shame to get what they want, and what the want is power. They are "progressive" as in terms of making people hate themselves, their friends and society at large because it is not their kind of progressiveness.

 

These.****ing.people.  

 

That's why i ask Bruce and everyone that agrees with him: What is morally good by supporting this kinds of ideas?

 

Dude come on, you are being very dramatic..you can't be serious?

 

You are taking this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaay  too seriously

 

 

If you're not serious, then why even bother to complain about his clothing? why even agree with the people out to shame him? Look in the ****ing mirror already.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

 

 

BruceVC: If the scientist guy needs to appologize for his choice of clothing, should rape victims have to do that as well?

 

I really don't think comments like this are very helpful.

 

 

I am sorry, but my jimmies are seriously rustled when i found out that he had to publicly appologize. It's not a question of different opinion, it is a grand declaration of war to everything that is good in this world. The gloves are now off and it is open season.

 

 

I know, I am angry about it too. But bringing rape victims into it, even in jest, really doesn't help. I know you don't mean harm with it, but imagine one of our board members might actually have a history of being raped and they'd see your comment. It's not your intention to hurt anyone (with possible exception of Bruce) but you might still, inadvertently.

 

 

No he hasn't hurt me at all but you are right about those types of comments being potentially very hurtful to others

 

I just get annoyed that people want to try to diminish the heinous deed of rape in order to make a point

 

 

Stop dodging the question, stop trying shift this about hurtful comments and answer already. Why should he be judged on his clothing and others should not? What morally good comes out of this?

 

Of course others are judged on there clothing, that's the nature of society. We judge people everyday about there appearances

 

 

So scientific advances go into the backseat when it comes to judgement of clothing? Is that an ethic that you would consider admirable? Is judgement of appearance only good when it comes to shaming people?

[BruceVC]

 

 

Also, this with Pakman being labeled as bully for covering GG.

 

There's not much a lone guy can do, but atleast i will not continue see this situation as something funny for an outside observer. I now see it as a force of hatred that tries to put humankind down the ****ter as fast as possible, and i will try to expose them as the frauds they are. They have continued to use bully tactics and shame to get what they want, and what the want is power. They are "progressive" as in terms of making people hate themselves, their friends and society at large because it is not their kind of progressiveness.

 

These.****ing.people.  

 

That's why i ask Bruce and everyone that agrees with him: What is morally good by supporting this kinds of ideas?

 

Dude come on, you are being very dramatic..you can't be serious?

 

You are taking this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaay  too seriously

 

 

If you're not serious, then why even bother to complain about his clothing? why even agree with the people out to shame him? Look in the ****ing mirror already.

 

 

Of course I'm serious about my point, I can understand why he apologized without pressure from feminists and SJW. He apologized because he wanted to, simple as that

 

But that doesn't mean now this is an orchestrated campaign by SJW to control mankind and have dominion and power over all. You are being completely dramatic, that's the part that I mean is not serious

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Also, this with Pakman being labeled as bully for covering GG.

 

There's not much a lone guy can do, but atleast i will not continue see this situation as something funny for an outside observer. I now see it as a force of hatred that tries to put humankind down the ****ter as fast as possible, and i will try to expose them as the frauds they are. They have continued to use bully tactics and shame to get what they want, and what the want is power. They are "progressive" as in terms of making people hate themselves, their friends and society at large because it is not their kind of progressiveness.

 

These.****ing.people.  

 

That's why i ask Bruce and everyone that agrees with him: What is morally good by supporting this kinds of ideas?

 

Dude come on, you are being very dramatic..you can't be serious?

 

You are taking this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaay  too seriously

 

 

If you're not serious, then why even bother to complain about his clothing? why even agree with the people out to shame him? Look in the ****ing mirror already.

 

 

Of course I'm serious about my point, I can understand why he apologized without pressure from feminists and SJW. He apologized because he wanted to, simple as that

 

But that doesn't mean now this is an orchestrated campaign by SJW to control mankind and have dominion and power over all. You are being completely dramatic, that's the part that I mean is not serious

 

 

He was bullied and shamed to submission to appease people that hate, and you support it. Nor do you seem to care about the absurdity of the situation when it was a celebration for the first spacecraft that landed on a comet. You are ok with him being judged for this and you are now ok with judging me on how dramatic my language or behaviour is. 

[JadedWolf]

New article by the telegraph (same paper as story linked before) now actually condemning the whole affair: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11232986/Matt-Taylors-sexist-shirt-and-the-day-political-correctness-officially-went-mad.html

 

At least some journalists are still capable of rational thought.

 

My favourite bit:

 

"Imagine if these PC fetishists had been around on Twitter when we landed on the moon: “One small step for man? And one giant leap backwards for women. #sexistpigs”. Would they have reduced Neil Armstrong to tears upon his return for enforcing heteronormativity with his masculinist rhetoric about stepping? I don’t doubt it. After all, what was done to Dr Taylor was plain vicious."

Edited November 15, 2014 by JadedWolf

[Meshugger]

Btw, i like you are still willfully ignorant that these post-modernists, SJWs and third-wave feminists are not interested in justice, beauty and truth. They deny all of these virtues because:

 

- There is no "truth". Only personal experiences to one's existence.

- There is no "beauty". Only subjective pleasures to one's existence.

- There is no "justice", since one person's justice can be in direct conflict with another person's concept of justice.

 

What is only left is power. Power, to control the narrative, language, and behaviour of others. Is this morally good to you Bruce?

[Keyrock]

It's a little hard to buy the "he made the apology of his own free will" argument when he had that much hate and pressure hurled in his direction.

[Orogun01]

Well, I've been on the Internet far too long. I need to go out to the real world and see people other than feminists, otherwise i'm likely to start hating women.

[Fighter]

Sweden Considering Sexism Labels For Video Games.

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138598-Swedish-Games-Industry-Group-Considers-Issuing-Labels-For-Sexism-Levels-In-Video-Games

[Longknife]

 

Also, this with Pakman being labeled as bully for covering GG.

 

There's not much a lone guy can do, but atleast i will not continue see this situation as something funny for an outside observer. I now see it as a force of hatred that tries to put humankind down the ****ter as fast as possible, and i will try to expose them as the frauds they are. They have continued to use bully tactics and shame to get what they want, and what the want is power. They are "progressive" as in terms of making people hate themselves, their friends and society at large because it is not their kind of progressiveness.

 

These.****ing.people.  

 

That's why i ask Bruce and everyone that agrees with him: What is morally good by supporting this kinds of ideas?

 

Dude come on, you are being very dramatic..you can't be serious?

 

You are taking this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaay  too seriously

 

 

Why don't you answer his question?

[Ganrich]

I agree. Pakman being attacked because he is actually being and "investigative" JOURNALIST is pretty terrifying and disgusting. Just because the feminists want to just spread a single message doesn't mean a person actually asking questions is harassing.

 

Just so we are clear, claiming someone asking questions is harassing people with no proof isn't harassment in and of itself. However asking questions is harassment. :/

Edited November 15, 2014 by Ganrich

[Malcador]

Find it funny that they say women will be put off entering STEM due to that shirt. Brutal coursework, exams and the work itself being hard won't faze them but some dude in an obnoxious shirt will. I guess they also expect to never work with jerks either.

 

Have to wonder how weak of will does the Outrage machine take women for.

[Keyrock]

I agree. Pakman being attacked because he is actually being and "investigative" JOURNALIST is pretty terrifying and disgusting. Just because the feminists want to just spread a single message doesn't mean a person actually asking questions is harassing.

 

Just so we are clear, claiming someone asking questions is harassing people with no proof isn't harassment in and of itself. However asking questions is harassment. :/

Until further information is revealed, I'm going to give the CBC the benefit of the doubt and think of this as a simple case of a news organization running a sensationalist clickbait type piece (not sure if "clickbait" applies to television, but you know what I mean) and just rushing it out the door with minimal effort and no fact checking.  That, of course, still reflects poorly on them as it shows a complete lack of professionalism, because doing actual journalistic investigative work would require time and effort and who does that any more when they can just blindly run something someone handed them?  Of course, given the guilt by neutrality stance of the SJWs and the ferocity with which they attack anyone not just opposed to them but even those that are simply questioning, trying to do their due diligence as a journalist, or even mostly agreeing with them but being more moderate and reasonable about it and not spewing hate hard enough, it's understandable how this could be viewed as something more sinister.