Drama and games journalism, soggy leg joint edition

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I'll believe it when I see it. I've been a message board junkie since I was eleven and the trolls were the only thing that never changed (other than getting worse).

 

Strangely enough, on sites which enforce a strict no-trolling policy, I haven't run into trolls.

 

It's almost as if there's a connection between making internet forums ****-friendly and said forums being flooded with ****.

[Longknife]

 

I'll believe it when I see it. I've been a message board junkie since I was eleven and the trolls were the only thing that never changed (other than getting worse).

Only really preventive measure is to ruin anonymity online, which will be a shame when it is done.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

Capitalism and Democracy rule real life, Anarchy rules the internet. And you know what? I think anarchy belongs here. Yes, there's problems, but when the alternative is that we begin with censorship and more policing of what can be done or said, then I think we're losing something truly unique.

[Fighter]

[Malcador]

Strangely enough, on sites which enforce a strict no-trolling policy, I haven't run into trolls.

 

It's almost as if there's a connection between making internet forums ****-friendly and said forums being flooded with ****.

Which forums are those ? These forums are troll friendly I guess, the moderation isn't exactly strict and the members handle themselves and it's not flooded.

[Longknife]

 

 

My reaction:

 

"SFM? Source Filmmaker? Damn I been playing too much TF2 lately, of course it's not that."

*click*

"oh"

[TrashMan]

 

 

The closest any of it comes to an attack on free speech is that at some levels it does resemble coercion, in that various people within the industry - be they game developers, other journalists or indy game developers - have come forth and described a "pressure" to adhere to their standards. That's the closest it's come to attacking free speech, but even then the target isn't us

 

You mean SWJ's aren't attacking everyone who support GG and trying to basically get them ostracized by spreading lies.. and generally treating them like s***.

 

Because gamers are dead and we should all be castrated and no real women would ever sleep with one of us mysogonist pigs.

 

 

Ironically, them being allowed to say that is also free speech. Which is why actual free speech is so difficult.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

You need AA, Bruce.

Nah, I'm not a regular drinker but I am a binge drinker

I now have an image of you sitting in some South African bar sipping a mixed drink(I don't take you as a beer or shots guy) eyeing all the ladies and wondering which one of them wouldn't mind dressing up like your Booware waifu of choice.

[TrashMan]

 

So, continued harrassment to the point of people giving up their careers in gaming is not censorship and an attack on their artistic integrity/free speech/whatever, but trying to deal with said harrassment is deplorable, because our primary concern should totally lie with the harrassers. Got it.

 

 

Who said that?

Show me at which point I said that harresment by anyone is OK?

 

 

 

...The bolded part is an attitude that's addressed in the article, y'know. Reading comprehension, I guess?

 

And I disagree with it.

problem?

[PrimeJunta]

Only really preventive measure is to ruin anonymity online, which will be a shame when it is done.

 

There's an alternative to anonymity and real-name policy. Pseudonymity. You can build a lot of mechanisms on that.

 

The question isn't really technical though, it's cultural. Stuff is tolerated on the Net that's not tolerated in any other space because freeze peach. That's changing too. As the Net is getting integrated into everyday life, norms from everyday life are changing the Net. For good and for ill.

 

What most worries me actually is that the way things are currently set up, our gatekeepers will be corporations who don't give a spit about the political dimensions of what they do, only the bottom line. I don't want Apple or Twitter or Google or Facebook to be the arbiter and gatekeeper. We have to find something better.

 

Edit: Or Obsidian Entertainment for that matter.

Edited October 17, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[PrimeJunta]

You mean SWJ's aren't attacking everyone who support GG and trying to basically get them ostracized by spreading lies.. and generally treating them like s***.

 

Because gamers are dead and we should all be castrated and no real women would ever sleep with one of us mysogonist pigs.

 

Awww, poor baby. Here, have a hug. {TrashMan}

[Volourn]

"The whole game industry must stand up against the harassment of women."

 

\But, not against harassment of men? Yup. Sexist piece of crap. Not new info.

 

 

"t. Anita Sarkeesian would not have been conceivable five or ten years ago. Five years ago, if someone who's not white, or a woman, said on a forum like this "You know, I'd like it if more women or people of color showed up in games, as protagonists and main characters instead of just tokens," she would have been (1) completely alone and (2) run out of town on a rail"

 

L0L

 

 

".Put another way-- as a matter of demographics, those "gamers are over" articles were correct."

 

Nope. Gamers still exist. Gaming is more popualr than it ever was. Gamers are winning. Sexist pieces of craps like feminists - espicially the male ones - have lost.

 

 

 

"Difference is, I condemn gaming culture for the sheer hypocrisy of always railing on about how "games are ART!" then trying to shut down any discussion of games as art."

 

\Except SJWs and feminists don't want games as art. They don't even know what they want games to be. They just make up lie after klie after lie. Not to mention feminists loathe

women. They want to enslave women. They belittle women. They want to treat women like weak little children. It'se vil, and pathetic.

 

"because a good discussion could have been had."

 

Disucssions with people whoa re know lairs is hard. Stop lying and stop protecting liars.

 

 

 

Bottom line feminists are vil sex ist pieces of crap just like SJWs and masculinists. Equalists are the only legit good people in the world. PERIOD.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Strangely enough, on sites which enforce a strict no-trolling policy, I haven't run into trolls.

 

It's almost as if there's a connection between making internet forums ****-friendly and said forums being flooded with ****.

Which forums are those ? These forums are troll friendly I guess, the moderation isn't exactly strict and the members handle themselves and it's not flooded.

 

 

RPG.net (where being impolite gets one banned), for example. The Onyx Path forums are also pretty troll-free, although I only have a limited experience with them.

 

 

...The bolded part is an attitude that's addressed in the article, y'know. Reading comprehension, I guess?

 

And I disagree with it.

problem?

 

 

Communicating your disagreement by blurting out "reading comprehension" instead of giving a reason why you disagree makes it rather hard for one to divine what your problem is exactly.

[Zoraptor]

 

I'll believe it when I see it. I've been a message board junkie since I was eleven and the trolls were the only thing that never changed (other than getting worse).

 

Strangely enough, on sites which enforce a strict no-trolling policy, I haven't run into trolls.

 

It's almost as if there's a connection between making internet forums ****-friendly and said forums being flooded with ****.

 

 

Nah, you just end up with something Neogaf when you have those policies, where any dissent from the established consensus is labelled as trolling. Thus you get things like their GG 'discussion' thread which is pure circle jerk and where you can get banned for not being negative enough about GG. I'd take some genuine trolls over that DPRKesque- he- who- claps- least- enthusiastically- gets- hands- chopped- off attitude any day of the week, and hour of the day and any minute of the hour.

 

Because zero tolerance for trolling almost always means zero tolerance for different opinions on any subject with any controversy associated with it. Unsurprisingly, that is exactly what the SJWs have shown right from the beginning with their censorious* attitude.

 

*If they had a bit more education and class I'm sure someone would have broken out the old classic 'ceterum censeo Gamergate delendam esse'.

[Blarghagh]

 

 These forums are troll friendly

 

 

Thanks for that!

 

In all seriousness, this thread has given me something to think about regarding the nature of trolls and dealing with them so I'm going to drop that topic as a process it and come back to it if I come up with anything genuinely interesting to say.

 

Bottom line feminists are vil sex ist pieces of crap just like SJWs and masculinists. Equalists are the only legit good people in the world. PERIOD.

 

 

(Did I make this jab before? I think I made it before. Sorry if I repeated myself.)

Edited October 17, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Malcador]

RPG.net (where being impolite gets one banned), for example. The Onyx Path forums are also pretty troll-free, although I only have a limited experience with them.

Hah, being 'impolite' getting you banned is funny and doesn't really sound like a forum I'd really enjoy, I guess being passive aggressive is encouraged there ? One problem with ironhanded moderation is it can rapidly end up being an echo chamber with people being how they are.

[PrimeJunta]

@Zoraptor Interestingly the Codex has pretty damn strong social control of expression. You guys just do it more like the old-style Usenet way of giving the nonconformers a clown nose (read: dumbf**k or "possibly retarded" tag) and then poking them with sticks, and only banning them if that fails. There's a lot less room there for dissenting opinion there than on most other forums I've hung out on IMO. You just have a rather... eccentric set of norms you're enforcing, bless your hearts.

Edited October 17, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

I'll believe it when I see it. I've been a message board junkie since I was eleven and the trolls were the only thing that never changed (other than getting worse).

Strangely enough, on sites which enforce a strict no-trolling policy, I haven't run into trolls.

 

It's almost as if there's a connection between making internet forums ****-friendly and said forums being flooded with ****.

I dunno, I think overmoderation leads to something like CBR, which I'm going to say shouldn't be emulated by anyone.

[Volourn]

"(Did I make this jab before? I think I made it before. Sorry if I repeated myself.)"
 

I don't know where your pic comes from and what its supposed to mean. But, I'm sure it's meant to devalue me as a human being but that's okay.

 

 

"@Zoraptor Interestingly the Codex has pretty damn strong social control of expression. You guys just do it more like the old-style Usenet way of giving the nonconformers a clown nose (read: dumbf**k tag) and then poking them with sticks, and only banning them if that fails. There's a lot less room there for dissenting opinion there than on most other forums I've hung out on IMO. You just have a rather... eccentric set of norms you're enforcing, bless your hearts."

 

That's silly talk coming from someone who doesn't know what the Codex is, obviously.

[PrimeJunta]

@Volourn I know that you're a Pretty Princess though.

Edited October 17, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[Blarghagh]

"(Did I make this jab before? I think I made it before. Sorry if I repeated myself.)"

 

I don't know where your pic comes from and what its supposed to mean. But, I'm sure it's meant to devalue me as a human being but that's okay.

 

Not really, just a jab at the term equalists, as a reference to a cartoon that has a group of self-proclaimed "equalists" (equality in a completely different context) as villains. Completely harmless and no attack meant.

[Longknife]

 

"t. Anita Sarkeesian would not have been conceivable five or ten years ago. Five years ago, if someone who's not white, or a woman, said on a forum like this "You know, I'd like it if more women or people of color showed up in games, as protagonists and main characters instead of just tokens," she would have been (1) completely alone and (2) run out of town on a rail"

 

 

Who said this wtf?

 

10 years ago was 2004. We still had Samus Aran, we still had Perfect Dark, we still had Tomb Raider.

 

If you want to dial it back to a time of extreme racism or sexism, you'd need to dial time back to...a time before games existed...Best ("best") you can realistically hope for is a time when a homosexual protagonist would get run out of town.

[Volourn]

"Not really, just a jab at the term equalists, as a reference to a cartoon that has a group of self-proclaimed "equalists" (equality in a completely different context) as villains. Completely harmless and no attack meant."
 

L0L No worries.  *attack mode off*

[Blarghagh]

 

 

"t. Anita Sarkeesian would not have been conceivable five or ten years ago. Five years ago, if someone who's not white, or a woman, said on a forum like this "You know, I'd like it if more women or people of color showed up in games, as protagonists and main characters instead of just tokens," she would have been (1) completely alone and (2) run out of town on a rail"

 

 

Who said this wtf?

 

10 years ago was 2004. We still had Samus Aran, we still had Perfect Dark, we still had Tomb Raider.

 

If you want to dial it back to a time of extreme racism or sexism, you'd need to dial time back to...a time before games existed...Best ("best") you can realistically hope for is a time when a homosexual protagonist would get run out of town.

 

 

I love how most gamers were super supportive of Ellie in the DLC for The Last Of Us. It really surprised me. Overall, gamers have been showing they're capable of great things in the last couple of years. The amount of charity drives is through the roof. It's one of the reasons I totally flipped my lid when the whole "gamers suck" shebang hit the media.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

RPG.net (where being impolite gets one banned), for example. The Onyx Path forums are also pretty troll-free, although I only have a limited experience with them.

Hah, being 'impolite' getting you banned is funny and doesn't really sound like a forum I'd really enjoy, I guess being passive aggressive is encouraged there ? One problem with ironhanded moderation is it can rapidly end up being an echo chamber with people being how they are.

 

 

No, being actually polite and apologizing when you've been an asshat to someone is encouraged in my experience.

 

Also, it's a place about tabletop RPGs. That's a fairly apolitical subject to prevent turning it into an echo chamber even when political opinions deemed unsavory by the mod staff are swiftly hit with the banhammer (which, again, isn't my experience with the site - as long as you can voice your opinion in a manner consistent with the spirit of the board rules, eg. behave like a reasonably decent person, said opinion won't be sanctioned).

 

 

 

 

I'll believe it when I see it. I've been a message board junkie since I was eleven and the trolls were the only thing that never changed (other than getting worse).

 

Strangely enough, on sites which enforce a strict no-trolling policy, I haven't run into trolls.

 

It's almost as if there's a connection between making internet forums ****-friendly and said forums being flooded with ****.

 

 

Nah, you just end up with something Neogaf when you have those policies, where any dissent from the established consensus is labelled as trolling. Thus you get things like their GG 'discussion' thread which is pure circle jerk and where you can get banned for not being negative enough about GG. I'd take some genuine trolls over that DPRKesque- he- who- claps- least- enthusiastically- gets- hands- chopped- off attitude any day of the week, and hour of the day and any minute of the hour.

 

Because zero tolerance for trolling almost always means zero tolerance for different opinions on any subject with any controversy associated with it. Unsurprisingly, that is exactly what the SJWs have shown right from the beginning with their censorious* attitude.

 

 

Thing is, I'm not sure the laissez-faire attitude of "oh, trolls should be free to troll, even if their ****tiness ends up driving a segment of our forum community away" will produce anything other than an echo chamber filled with different kind of echoes.

[Blarghagh]

An echo chamber filled with different kind of echoes? I'm not sure if that really qualifies as an echo chamber.

 

EDIT: I may have been unclear, the intention of this post was: I'm not sure what you mean with that.