New build feedback

[mutonizer]

 

The Backer NPC UI and system was functionally put together a while back and our design team just got around to hooking up the backer NPC data to the characters. So at this point, this is the first time these things have hooked up so the whole team can get a look at it all. Currently, we're more interested that everything is in and working properly. Small things like background colors and icons can be tweaked or removed once our leads and artists have gotten time to do a major review of the overall look. The UI art team has been working a lot on icons on portraits lately as there have been quite a bit to get done.

Just remember guys, each patch you guys get has only been about 3 weeks apart. Some of the things you see may have been added earlier that week and haven't gone through a full official review pass by the leads and the rest of the team. Rest assured that we will do various passes on things added and you may just be looking at the first go.

 

Yea, that's why, while it's still bothering me a bit (as I said, that "feel" thing), I try focus more on core mechanics/gameplay than the little things like that which are peanuts to solve either by you guys directly or via modding.

[Matt516]

Thanks for the info. Will the backer NPC UI (whatever it ends up being) be a toggle? For me personally, having certain characters look different purely based on who designed them (ie being backer NPCs) is one of the most immersion breaking things that could be done and a VERY dangerous path to tread with a Kickstarter game. It crosses the line from giving backers nice rewards to compromising the integrity of the game world IMO.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Matt516

[Yonjuro]

...

@Hormalakh: I had a similar idea kicking around. It looks pretty good on paper, but quickly becomes noisy with multiple engagements in close proximity. This is partly due to the fact that selections circles are often touching each other with no buffer zone in between them. This is not to say it wouldn't work, but you'd have to balance visual clutter vs how well you can see each arrow. (too big and it's a mess with multiple arrows, too small and it starts defeating the purpose of having one in the first place etc.) Thanks for the suggestions / feedback guys.

 

  An engagement UI is an already improvement over no engagement UI (though my opinion is apparently not shared by everyone).

 

 A possible tweak that comes to mind is the 'clove hitch' animation (a term I just made up; named after the knot) the idea is to take an arrow-like animation similar to what you have now (possibly minus the arrow head?) which wraps around the opponents circle and then is rendered as a non-animated chain link between the circles. It might convey the same information and be less jarring (for those who find the current setup jarring). This would be on mouse over.

[mutonizer]

Thanks for the info. Will the backer NPC UI (whatever it ends up being) be a toggle? For me personally, having certain characters look different purely based on who designed them (ie being backer NPCs) is one of the most immersion breaking things that could be done and a VERY dangerous path to tread with a Kickstarter game. It crosses the line from giving backers nice rewards to compromising the integrity of the game world IMO.

 

I agree totally, but they have 150+ backers who pledged 1000$ and above, meaning custom NPCs designed and named by them. In the pledge however was no mention of having them being "special" in any way, or have any pledgers name recognition or anything like that so all in all, they're pretty free to do whatever they want as long as they put the 150+ NPCs in the game.

 

Just expect your cities and taverns to be very crowded with named NPCs that probably won't have **** to say to you

[Captain Shrek]

[Skie Nightfall]

No new Orlan portraits

[AndreaColombo]

Is anyone going to post the new portraits added with this build? How many are they?

[Lephys]

Regarding the "skills on multiple characters are redundant/useless" gripe...

 

Would it be out-of-the-question to simply include aggregate skill checks for things? Scripted interactions and dialogues, alike? I understand not just taking the highest score in your party for dialogue stuff, because you don't want your PC to just be moot ("Oh, my companion NPC here is awesome at this, so they'll just handle everything as if I wasn't even here.") BUT, that doesn't mean you couldn't have aggregate checks. Basically, instead of "Mechanics - 5" or something, you'd have "Mechanics - 17 (group)" or something. An example for mechanics would be a complex machine that requires multiple people to operate it at the same time, more complexly than just "Hey, push this button when I tell you." Or, traps that require multiple people to disarm, etc.

 

Or, as another example, if in a scripted event you are trying to find the trail of some kidnappers, or some beast, etc. (something you're tracking), then having multiple people with higher Survival skill could contribute better to the outcome of your search -- maybe you find the trail faster, or you find the exact trail instead of just the general direction, etc..

 

That, and Hiro said something interesting: That Mechanics and Stealth don't affect dialogue options. And to that I say... why not? Stealth could affect sleight-of-hand options in dialogue, amongst other things. "Is that your daughter over there? *points* (Try to take his wallet - Stealth 4)". And/or, at the very least, they could be treated as skill knowledge checks in dialogue. "Something like that would require access to a specific type of oil. Maybe we can narrow down the suspect list (Mechanics 5)." Etc. Stealth knowledge could pertain to security risks/investigation, etc.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

^ I think there might be Stealth and Mechanics checks in dialogue in different parts of the game but we haven't seen it yet. We've seen Survival (Ogre) and Lore. But for me, even if you spread your points out to be a Jack of all Trades character, you'll most likely won't have enough points to open up all the dialogue options and will probably miss out on most options by spreading your points too far and not having enough. So for me, I would concentrate on opening one (Lore) or two (Survival) dialogue options to capture that additional dialogue, maybe a third one and forgetting about the other two skills and leave them for NPCs.

 

But even if you do specialise in two skills, then that leaves 3 left for the rest of your party. With the exception of Stealth and Mechanics for the rogue, I'm finding Athletics to be an important skill overall to give to all my companions and leaving the rest.

[morhilane]

Does anyone else have blue health bar and blue party circles? It used to be green in v278.

 

[Hormalakh]

Alright Kaz and everyone else. Here are more images that I built for the Engagement UI. These are not in isometric angles but you get the idea.

 

Alright here are two more examples of AoO UI that I've been working on: it shows the selection circles, then static AoO UI without a mouse-over option, and finally a AoO UI which is toggled with mousing over the specific ally/enemy. Mouseover is indicated by a lighter color.

 

These are static images because Sensuki had stated taht he doesn't like the animation. Let me know what you think. I'm going to finish up the animated ones and put those up.

These are static images because Sensuki had stated that he doesn't like the animation.

 

This next image is a "dynamic one" in that it is animated. The first one is with mouse-over.

 

This second one is without mouse-over.

 

I have the PSD files for these animations, if anyone is interested in messing around with it further. Oh and different sized circles for different sized monsters. I've noticed they do that quite often.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Hormalakh

[Hiro Protagonist II]

One possible problem with that Hormalach is when you skew the view to how it is in the game, some of that may be lost. And with some aoe spells, like the priests and druid spells hitting the ground (which I think is over the top and need to be toned down), it would blend into everything else like it does now. I preferred how it was in the IE games. You click on one of your party members and the selection circle around the enemy it was targeting would change and pulsate.

[Lephys]

I preferred how it was in the IE games. You click on one of your party members and the selection circle around the enemy it was targeting would change and pulsate.

The IE games didn't have engagement, though. How would you represent a Fighter engaging 3 foes at once, etc.?

 

I agree that it may become hard to read on ground circles, beneath all the other goings-on of combat, though.

[Lephys]

^ I think there might be Stealth and Mechanics checks in dialogue in different parts of the game but we haven't seen it yet. We've seen Survival (Ogre) and Lore. But for me, even if you spread your points out to be a Jack of all Trades character, you'll most likely won't have enough points to open up all the dialogue options and will probably miss out on most options by spreading your points too far and not having enough. So for me, I would concentrate on opening one (Lore) or two (Survival) dialogue options to capture that additional dialogue, maybe a third one and forgetting about the other two skills and leave them for NPCs.

 

But even if you do specialise in two skills, then that leaves 3 left for the rest of your party. With the exception of Stealth and Mechanics for the rogue, I'm finding Athletics to be an important skill overall to give to all my companions and leaving the rest.

Well, if there are, great. If there aren't any throughout the entire game, that would suck.

 

But, I guess all I'm stressing is:

 

1) Everything should offer you the "same" opportunities (in general -- basically, you shouldn't JUST get some minor passive bonuses and the ability to set traps and be sneaky from 2 of the skills, while people who use the other skills on their PC are having a field day with super-interesting dialogue options and effects).

2) There should be a feasible way to make it so that redundant skill ratings across the party have at least some significance, as well. I think there are plenty of potential situations in which TWO competent people can do something that only ONE competent (even extremely competent) person cannot.

[Matt516]

Re: engagement feedback, I think there should be an option to have them only show on mouseover or always show. My personal preference is for the engagement arrows (whatever form they take) to be visible all the time, but I can certainly understand why some people would prefer them to be shown only on mouseover.

 

Also, incredible work, Hormalakh! Those are awesome. I'm not sure how they'd look at the isometric angle, but they certainly look great from top-down. Would love to see them at isometric.

[Qiushui]

First impression:

 

• Wow, combat is ridiculously easy. Face-rolling everything on Hard with one hand behind my back and a blind-fold on.
• New character models are a huge improvement. They look about good enough to withstand the scrutiny of a zoomed in model, as featured in char creation, for example.
• Still seems to be a memory leak type of thing randomly destroying performance, seems to go away with a reload.
• New UI elements are starting to really improve combat visibility and transparency.
• Changes to stats will require much more investigation but char creation point allocation looks infinitely more sensible now with the baseline 10 and the low-stat penalties. 
• new spell descriptions and icons are great.

[Headbomb]

Of those, the 2nd version is the best. Animation is a must.

[Sensuki]

I really don't think it is. I don't want an animated engagement UI. Animated Targeting reticle is more important.

 

Does anyone else have blue health bar and blue party circles? It used to be green in v278.

 

2014-09-26_00001.jpg

Turn Colorblind mode off again.

[Uomoz]

My 2c: keep the engagement animation and add targeting reticle animation. Daimmmm

[Hormalakh]

I have a suggestion with regards to how the inventory and character sheets show the values for health, stamina, DT, accy, etc. It would be really nice if mousing over the icons would show how each value was calculated (including one-handed or two-handed bonuses, boni from equipment, and other bonuses).

 

Also this has been mentioned before, but the abbreviation system for those icons is really bad.

[Matt516]

I have a suggestion with regards to how the inventory and character sheets show the values for health, stamina, DT, accy, etc. It would be really nice if mousing over the icons would show how each value was calculated (including one-handed or two-handed bonuses, boni from equipment, and other bonuses).

 

Agreed. Mouseover on any of those values should show how the values are calculated.

[sb5]

One possible problem with that Hormalach is when you skew the view to how it is in the game, some of that may be lost. And with some aoe spells, like the priests and druid spells hitting the ground (which I think is over the top and need to be toned down), it would blend into everything else like it does now. I preferred how it was in the IE games. You click on one of your party members and the selection circle around the enemy it was targeting would change and pulsate.

How about an overlay shader that make targets engaged by your character pulsate green, targets that engage you pulsate red and targets which engage each other flash up white which is visible when a character is selected

[Malignacious]

Does anyone else have blue health bar and blue party circles? It used to be green in v278.

 

2014-09-26_00001.jpg

 

This still looks like characters are just about to merge with the environment and vanish from the face of the world.

[Skie Nightfall]

At the moment, the closest PC will initiate dialogue or go loot a container.

I find it amusing that even my animal companion is included and can do that...

[sb5]

At the moment, the closest PC will initiate dialogue or go loot a container.

I find it amusing that even my animal companion is included and can do that...

My rangers bear called Helmut and Medreth had quite an argument that other day