Malcador Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 What is the end goal of GG? That every website that ever supported Zoe, Anita or raised a feminist issue should close down due to lack of sponsor support ? Free speech is awesome, as long as it aligns with your views That would be pretty sweet, Kuchera could end up writing for some meaningless paper or hock crap e-books and Rex would...well most likely hang himself. You are ok with people using their free speech to squeeze businesses where it hurts to get them to obey, as long as it's line with you - so why is this an issue ? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
BruceVC Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 What is the end goal of GG? That every website that ever supported Zoe, Anita or raised a feminist issue should close down due to lack of sponsor support ? Free speech is awesome, as long as it aligns with your views That would be pretty sweet, Kuchera could end up writing for some meaningless paper or hock crap e-books and Rex would...well most likely hang himself. You are ok with people using their free speech to squeeze businesses where it hurts to get them to obey, as long as it's line with you - so why is this an issue ? Am I really okay with that young grasshopper? Please produce the links that suggest how companies have stopped advertising on websites that don't support SJ initiatives and how I have supported that? The difference between me and you is I don't want a website to close just because it criticizes me or makes a certain ideological stand. Like RPGCodex, I think it needs serious moderation but I don't want the website to close. Some of you actually want advertisers to stop supporting certain websites because " they have said nasty things about gamers" Its really is absurd when you look at it from outside. And I get told " I'm the one who doesn't understand free speech"...that's rich "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Malignacious Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 I am increasingly weary of GamerGate, especially because harassment is still being carried out in its name, You don't understand the critical aspect of SJW creatures.
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 What is the end goal of GG? That every website that ever supported Zoe, Anita or raised a feminist issue should close down due to lack of sponsor support ? Free speech is awesome, as long as it aligns with your views That would be pretty sweet, Kuchera could end up writing for some meaningless paper or hock crap e-books and Rex would...well most likely hang himself. You are ok with people using their free speech to squeeze businesses where it hurts to get them to obey, as long as it's line with you - so why is this an issue ? Am I really okay with that young grasshopper? Please produce the links that suggest how companies have stopped advertising on websites that don't support SJ initiatives and how I have supported that? The difference between me and you is I don't want a website to close just because it criticizes me or makes a certain ideological stand. Like RPGCodex, I think it needs serious moderation but I don't want the website to close. Some of you actually want advertisers to stop supporting certain websites because " they have said nasty things about gamers" Its really is absurd when you look at it from outside. And I get told " I'm the one who doesn't understand free speech"...that's rich If you equate "advertiser pulling advertisement" with "loss of free speech" then you don't understand free speech. Gamasutra is entitled to say whatever they want, what they are not entitled to is protection from repercussions of their statements. If their statements offend customers of one of their advertisers, then that advertiser pulling advertisement is to be expected. "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands
Orogun01 Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 @Bruce:It seems that you forget that this could all been easily avoided if the editors of those websites had pretended that they had a modicum of professionalism and had enforced journalistic ethics from the beginning. The editors are defending and in many cases are the perpetrators, so naturally you go to the guy that owns them. But because the whole of Gawker media and others on the GamesJournoList decided to run the "Gamers are dead" articles you have to attack the websites in order to force them to what should had been a default from the get go.If what you fear is that GG will spawn a hateful mass of gamers that just keep emailing companies every time they don't get their way, I will tell you to check your bias and that GG is not a monolith. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Malcador Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Am I really okay with that young grasshopper? Please produce the links that suggest how companies have stopped advertising on websites that don't support SJ initiatives and how I have supported that? The difference between me and you is I don't want a website to close just because it criticizes me or makes a certain ideological stand. Like RPGCodex, I think it needs serious moderation but I don't want the website to close. Some of you actually want advertisers to stop supporting certain websites because " they have said nasty things about gamers" Its really is absurd when you look at it from outside. And I get told " I'm the one who doesn't understand free speech"...that's rich As an aside, for the Codex, why does it 'need' serious moderation, exactly ? It's a website people willingly go to. The fact that you think that is pretty clear among everything else that your idea of free speech is stuff you are okay with (not a unique attribute, heh). Hm, I don't really want it either way, really, at least in active sense I suppose. Also it's not the act of closing but pressure to change in some way (have not followed closely, so not sure what the actual letters said) - trying to squeeze the cash flow is pressure, but I'd get a good laugh out of some of them dying out. People have tried this with a number of chains last year and before that, at least in the US and the consensus has been that that is ok - boycotts are a weapon in the bag of the consumers. If they were doing this to squeeze a site to ditch an anti-gay writer, I'd be shocked to find you in opposition. Edited October 2, 2014 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Elerond Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Freedom of speech is about protect people from governmental control and censor. So flooding companies with messages that ask/demand/whatever them to advertising certain web pages/services or magazines. Such campaigns are one of tools that society uses to moderate speech. Said moderation as such isn't against free speech, although such tools can be used to block unpopular opinions addition to keeping conversation polite, which can threaten some people's ability to express their opinions. Trying shut Gamasutra down seems to me somewhat counterproductive thing for gamers to do as it is portal that game developers use to exchange information and it's at least partially way how its parent company UBM pays Game Developers Conference and GDC Vault which both are currently major resources for many developers. But maybe getting revenge or whatever to one opinion piece (meaning that is article that don't necessary represent opinions or values of publication that published it) from one writer is more important than other consequence that such site shutdown would cause. Intel's decision to remove their advertisement from world largest game developer portal seem also bit counter productive in time when they try to get more developers to produce games for their platforms, especially when they are currently in such position in market that it is quite unlikely that they would lose PC gamers as customers even if they had continued the campaign. So maybe there is more behind Intel's decision this campaign, but then again ad campaigns are usually run by separate corporate entities or even companies and lots of customers complaints about their campaign may hurt them even if campaign isn't targeted for those who complain and there is no risk of lost business because of those complains.
Monte Carlo Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) As an aside, for the Codex, why does it 'need' serious moderation, exactly ? It's a website people willingly go to. The fact that you think that is pretty clear among everything else that your idea of free speech is No, it doesn't need moderation, they obviously like wallowing the sewer they've created. But as you say, I'm free not to go there. So I don't. I did have an account and posts there, as they do know their stuff and the coverage of old-skool RPGs is superlative. It's just a shame that I feel the need to shower after a visit. I'm sympathetic to the argument that free speech doesn't mean you can shout 'fire' in a crowded cinema - there are consequences occasionally when things go too far. But even this causes problems, as who decides? You? Me? Bruce? Anita Sarkesian? *shudders* Personally I'd rather mock the antisemitic trolls of the Codex* as basement-dwelling, mouth-breathing cretins than suggest they be silenced. They can shoot straight back at me, I can live with it and it bothers me not a jot. Is the answer that people need to toughen up and stop being such precious snow-flakes? It's not all of the answer, but it's some of the answer. * Disclaimer - I know and like some of the Codexians. I'm saddened they so seldom challenge some of the dregs they attract, but it's not my call. Edited October 2, 2014 by Monte Carlo
kirottu Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 I have always found it surprising how lack of moderation can actually form a quite accepting place for everyone, rude as hell, but accepting. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Ganrich Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 People do need to toughen up, but when a company makes crappy comments I can choose not to buy/use their product. I can not be offended and still decide their message isn't for me. That is the same as voting in an election to me. If the company decides to irritate a large portion of their consumers... Well, they have a larger group voting against them. No one person should be the judge, jury, and executioner though. The codex is fine. I don't go there, but they shouldnt need any moderation. You can get close to the same discussion or information elsewhere.
Malcador Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Well I avoid GD, except for one thread, but everywhere else seems to be on the same level as here for the most part. A good example of "get what you give", as well. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Lexx Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Much funny. See. Doesn't matter what you do, people will hate you for it. So just do whatever you want, can't please everyone anways. /Edit: Think I should have posted this in the funny pics thread. Hmm. Edited October 2, 2014 by Lexx "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."
JadedWolf Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Much funny. See. Doesn't matter what you do, people will hate you for it. So just do whatever you want, can't please everyone anways. /Edit: Think I should have posted this in the funny pics thread. Hmm. <Sarcasm> Oh my, time to buy some AMD stock... Intel is obviously going to go bankrupt now. </Sarcasm> Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Monte Carlo Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Twitter is a babel of stupidity. Ignore it. 1
Volourn Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 "Volo I'm extremely disappointed in your post, I always thought you believed in free speech. But it appears you don't. Its not going to happen but lets say all advertisers due to pressure from GG do pull out from a website like Gamasutra and they close down (as I said its highly unlikely but lets say it happens) Basically what you are advocating is because a website doesn't believe what you believe it should be put out of business. This is fascism and hubris of the worst degree, how are you going to sleep at night knowing you support an organisation (GG) that is so intolerant ? I don't agree with radical feminists but I don't think there websites should be closed down just because of what they believe" It's a good thing I don't take someone who think I'm a white male rapist's opinion seriously so your misinformed opinion of me is useless garbage. So, you can take your 'dissapointment' and go on your merry way. I don't believe in censorship. This isn't censorship. The site wasn't forced down. They can still post their evil posts. They can still accuse me of being a white male rapist and besmirch my name even if it isn't true. me? I'll continue to play my games. 1 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Malcador Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Well, now all AMD needs to do know is seize this opportunity and name Sarkeesian as their ambassador or something. Sweet SJW money. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Monte Carlo Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Also, online advocacy is a two-way street. Live by the sword an' all that...
BruceVC Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Guys you knew the response from the radical feminists was inevitable, don't take it heart. Most of you aren't misogynistic haters of gender equality. I know that and you know that so please can we downplay the expected venting from these types of developments Some of the Twitter comments made me laugh, such outrage and theatrics. The comments around Witcher 3 really made me chuckle " its about rape " ..and then the comment "Jesus " Imagine having a debate with some of those people and trying to explain Bethesda Adult Mods , it wouldn't be pleasant "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
BruceVC Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 "Volo I'm extremely disappointed in your post, I always thought you believed in free speech. But it appears you don't. Its not going to happen but lets say all advertisers due to pressure from GG do pull out from a website like Gamasutra and they close down (as I said its highly unlikely but lets say it happens) Basically what you are advocating is because a website doesn't believe what you believe it should be put out of business. This is fascism and hubris of the worst degree, how are you going to sleep at night knowing you support an organisation (GG) that is so intolerant ? I don't agree with radical feminists but I don't think there websites should be closed down just because of what they believe" It's a good thing I don't take someone who think I'm a white male rapist's opinion seriously so your misinformed opinion of me is useless garbage. So, you can take your 'dissapointment' and go on your merry way. I don't believe in censorship. This isn't censorship. The site wasn't forced down. They can still post their evil posts. They can still accuse me of being a white male rapist and besmirch my name even if it isn't true. me? I'll continue to play my games. Sorry Volo, if you are trying to change my mind you have failed horribly. I'm still disappointed in your comments "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
HoonDing Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) ^^^Is that the comic book writer Gail Simone? She never did anything about the constant ass shots and male gazey outfits in Birds of Prey. And Red Sonja is still wearing her metal bikini. Edited October 2, 2014 by HoonDing The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Volourn Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 The SJWs hate me and are dissapointed in me the more I know I'm on the right track for being equalist. 2 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
BruceVC Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 The SJWs hate me and are dissapointed in me the more I know I'm on the right track for being equalist. Epic post Volo, I should get really annoyed with you but I find I just can't. You make me laugh too much "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
HoonDing Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 I love those tweets about no longer getting Intel processors. Reminds me of Citizen Kang. 2 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Elerond Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 ^^^Is that the comic book writer Gail Simone? She never did anything about the constant ass shots and male gazey outfits in Birds of Prey. And Red Sonja is still wearing her metal bikini. She is writer of those comics not the artist, although I don't think she has anything against art that were used in those comics, but my point is that she isn't one that decided how the characters look in those comics..
Monte Carlo Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 The problem with Twitter, especially, is the instantaneous nature of it. How many of those posters actually know anything about this story. Very few. They just jump on bandwagons.
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