Is the PoE beta + the update info on target with the KS goal - IE spiritual successor?

[IndiraLightfoot]

From the front page of OE's KS:

 

"The Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment. Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing. At Obsidian, we have the people responsible for many of those classic games and we want to bring those games back… and that’s why we’re here - we need your help to make it a reality!"

 

"Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. The world map is dotted with unique locations and wilderness ripe for exploration and questing. You’ll create your own character and collect companions along the way – taking him or her not just through this story, but, with your continued support, through future adventures. You will engage in dialogues that are deep, and offer many choices to determine the fate of you and your party. …and you'll experience a story that explores mature themes and presents you with complex, difficult choices to shape how your story plays out."

 

Interestingly, I can find a number of journalists calling it the "spiritual successors of the IE games," for instance, Eurogamer during the KS, but I haven't managed to find where OE says it will be in its KS material sep-oct 2012. Torment: Tides of Numenera is described as a spiritual successor to Planescape, even on Obsidian's KS site. Perhaps somebody here can find it.

 

There has been some intense discussions about this, and after all, why wouldn't it be? It's the very reason why we're all here. Some are happy about PoE so far, and reckon that OE has stayed true to their goals ever since the KS, others are in the middle, saying this is only true to an extent, and then we have quite a few genuinely disappointed so far, claiming that this isn't the game they pledged for.

 

So does Poe, so far, capture the nostalgia of the classic RPGs BG, IWD and PST?

 

Have Josh & Co brought these games back, or have we got some new CRPG that are surprisingly different from the classics?

 

In short, is it a spiritual successor of the IE games?

Edited September 8, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Tartantyco]

In short, yes.

 

I think there are a couple of basic errors in judgment for people who do not consider it to be a spiritual successor. First of all, they often focus on a single game(Generally BG2). Secondly, they criticize PoEt for deviating too much from the IE games, when those games themselves were often extremely divergent in both the mechanical underpinnings, as well as the gameplay itself. People just get so caught up on a single detail, or base their opinions on things that will obviously change during the beta, and just ignore everything but that one thing.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Tartantyco

[Karkarov]

Yes it is.  It is mechanically different and they are working out the bugs.  We all knew it would be mechanically different though, and the bugs will get fixed one way or the other.  It looks like the IE games, controls very similarly to the IE games, I am sure if I had a install CD it would even smell like an IE game.

[Uomoz]

Most definitely.

[Sensuki]

There's no denying it's a spiritual successor, what is up in the air is how well it will compare. These next few months will be critical in shaping the game to be fun.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Sensuki

[Sarex]

I'm definitely in the middle, as Sensuki said it will all depend on these next few months. But as a hypothetical if what we have now is what we will get in the end, then I would say that it failed in it's goal.

[C2B]

Yes

 

In its current state it can still fail at its goal however. It's definitly getting there though.

[PrimeJunta]

At this point? A qualified yes.

 

The combat is the big ? right now. If there's time to get it properly sorted, it will almost certainly be a resounding YES!

 

I'm not at all worried about the central hero, memorable companions, emotional writing, mature thematic exploration, or dungeon-diving; the small dungeons in the BB are already pretty cool and Obsidian can write all three legs off a donkey.

 

Miiildly worried about the exploration; if all the wilderness maps are as small as in the BB, that's going to be a let-down; OTOH if some of them have really cool stuff to find, that'll make up for it. So for that part we'll have to see.

 

All in all it's looking pretty good from where I'm at. Of the planks they listed, combat is clearly unfinished and exporation is a little worrying, but the others are all good.

[Kjaamor]

I'd argue that it has already succeeded, although I agree with Sensuki that the big question is how well it will compare.

 

EDIT:

 

I agree with your concerns regarding the maps being tight and clustered, PJ, although I personally think that many people have slightly over-emphasised the BG1 exploration. The impression of exploration I got from the pitch was that you will not be npc sign-posted into every dungeon, a la DA:O and every other mmorpg/pseudo-mmorpg. To that extent, I actually thought that the maps gave a sense of exploration rather than tour-guided.

 

...but I shall be very surprised if we're seeing wilderness maps of BG1 scale.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Kjaamor

[Sensuki]

Exploration is also a big concern, yes.

[Infinitron]

It feels like an Infinity Engine game, but more like one made by Black Isle as opposed to Bioware, which is to be expected.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Like you, Sarex, I occupy the middle ground, with some trepidation. In the KS video - I just rewatched it, Josh is crystal clear on what he loved the most about the IE games: the story and the party-based combat, with tactical decisions on isometric maps. So far, I have very high hopes for the story and even the epicness of this low-level adventure. As for combat, most things we see now as bugged out are certainly fixable. I stamp big question marks on character development, including the diversity of classes, of builds and of exploration itself. I really keep my fingers crossed for plenty of encouragement for exploring the game, and approaching it in a more personal way, and this includes maps worthy of exploration and combat in the first place. Mind you, the beta is just a fake slice for us to test out the systems, so we have very little to go on. Finally, speaking of the systems, they haven't exactly been up to snuff through and through. Some stuff appears redundant and intricate for no real reasons. I'd simplify quite a lot of that, and move that intricacy to character development and exploration branching, encounter design, and general gameplay fun.

[Sensuki]

The beta also contains the content from the Prototype / Vertical Slice. Since it was the first content they created it will also probably be the worst content they created.

[archangel979]

I don't have beta access but by watching streaming, youtube videos and reading discussions here I am also in the middle but lean more towards spiritual successor. 

As I didn't really expect a same game (and didn't really want another 2e D&D system) I don't mind many systems changing as long as they make sense.

For now I trust Obsidian to make a better game that NWN2 but I also hope it will turn out better than BG1EE in the end. 

[PrimeJunta]

I'm already sure this will sail past NWN2 and laugh as it sails. That game was mostly derp. Decent character-building if you like DnD3, and the trial was cool although it fell completely flat with the conclusion, but other than that... derp.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I don't have beta access but by watching streaming, youtube videos and reading discussions here I am also in the middle but lean more towards spiritual successor. 

As I didn't really expect a same game (and didn't really want another 2e D&D system) I don't mind many systems changing as long as they make sense.

For now I trust Obsidian to make a better game that NWN2 but I also hope it will turn out better than BG1EE in the end. 

 

That's setting the bar super-duper-high! If it's better than NWN2 and BG1:EE, I'll be over the moon and beyond!

 

EDIT: I also include the systems, the mechanics, the atmosphere, and the exploration in this assessment.

Edited September 8, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[PrimeJunta]

Whereas I didn't even like BG1 one much, so...

[Kjaamor]

The best thing that can be said about NWN2 is that it has not been explicitly proven to be carcinogenic. Yet.

 

The "enhanced" edition of BG baffles me because they basically tag on a load of items, skills and features from a different game and succeed in completely unbalancing the decent game they had.

[Sensuki]

BG1 vanilla is superior! The beautiful avatars.

 

Best played at 640x480 @ 160Hz on a 22" CRT Monitor

[Tartantyco]

Whereas I didn't even like BG1 one much, so...

 

Arrest this man!

[PrimeJunta]

Fine, I'll start another one. Kobolds quiver, for here I come. Again.

[Gfted1]

So does Poe, so far, capture the nostalgia of the classic RPGs BG, IWD and PST?

For me, no. PoE feels like a kitchen sink of ideas thrown together without regard for "feel". MUST CRUSH DEGERATIVE GAMEPLAY, RARG! All my fun are belong to Obsidian.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Fine, I'll start another one. Kobolds quiver, for here I come. Again.

 

Yes, please do! Personally, I'm having a blast replaying it after all these years.

 

EDIT: If possible, try out the BG:EE, since it's in a way an updated version of an IE game post-2010, as it were.

Edited September 8, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[archangel979]

I am just playing BG2EE and having loads of fun. I don't expect PoE to beat BG2EE on its first try even if all the complaints are taken more seriously and implemented into the game. That is why I didn't mention it at all. Just like BG had two games to reach BG2 perfection, I will let PoE get to #2 before expecting it to compete vs BG2. 

[PrimeJunta]

@Indira I'm not going to try the EE. I've read up thoroughly on it and am convinced it would want me to gnaw off my foot at the ankle. The things I didn't like about BG1 could not possibly have been fixed in the EE, whereas the things I did have been messed with.