Ukraine discussion

[Walsingham]

 

 

I'm well aware of our responsibilities to NATO. It's unfortunate that the US made the mistake of being involved in an alliance. We should get out of NATO.

 

 

 

If you think intervention is making the world more peaceful; you are simply wrong. Not that world peace should even be an agenda of ours.

 

Lucky for us Ukraine was not a full member of NATO and we are not obligated to get involved. I wish we would just stay out of it.

 

 

Utterly in awe of this post.

 

Why is NATO bad for the USA?

 

Because it drags us into alliances. Those alliances drag us into conflicts. I want America to stop wasting it's resources on wars that don't involve us; NATO makes that very difficult. Also, the existence of NATO makes it easier for stupid war hawks to downplay the costs of war.

 

 

 

Freedom of action is worthless if the strength of those actions is enfeebled.

 

Ignoring the value of alliances, surrendering valuable markets and materials, abandoning cultures that are friendly into the hands of those that are hostile, all enfeeble your strength. This isn't some new reality.

 

I appreciate that you feel America is held back by its friends, but I assure you that the only thing worse than having interconnections is having none.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Gays-Exhibitionist's visit this march also.

 

I'm all for gay rights, but I don't see what homosexuality has to do with Ukraine. Is this protest about more than just the Ukraine issue? I think protests are more effective when they are about a single issue.

 

 

There is a connection between gay rights and the nationalist interests of Russia in Ukraine. And that connection is Putin, we know that Putin has started legislating homophobia in Russia. So any march that is opposed to Russian interference in Ukraine will also bring about gay  people in Russia joining the protest who being discriminated against

 

It all boils down top the same objective, raising awareness to the authoritarian policies of Putin

[Zoraptor]

According to you it trolling because I don't echo your opinion

 

 

I'll let you into a secret- I'm not even slightly worried about disagreeing with you as I don't value your opinions at all.

 

I call it trolling because telling someone they should 'appreciate'- your word- their country being bombed is trolling, plain and simple.

[BruceVC]

 

According to you it trolling because I don't echo your opinion

 

 

I'll let you into a secret- I'm not even slightly worried about disagreeing with you as I don't value your opinions at all.

 

I call it trolling because telling someone they should 'appreciate'- your word- their country being bombed is trolling, plain and simple.

 

 

And as usual you are selective with your understanding or you make an assumption around what someone means or says.

 

I never said "Serbia should appreciate that they were bombed ". I said "You really don't  seem to appreciate what NATO did  for your country, imagine what would have happened if the Bosnian war had been to allowed continue"

 

NATO ended the war in Bosnia and Kosovo. Why do you think that any country shouldn't see the long term benefits of not being involved in a war? Its obvious

 

I suppose you would be happy if the Serbs had basically carved whatever parts of  Bosnia they wanted and the forced the ethnic Bosniaks to live somewhere else? That does seem to be how you see things, like your justifications for Russia illegally annexing the Crimea

 

So in your world as long as the West isn't illegally  occupying other countries its fine. But other countries like Russia can basically do what they want and your prodigious  justification machinery kicks to explain how legitimate there actions are

 

Nice  consistency there Zora

[Namutree]

 

 

 

Gays-Exhibitionist's visit this march also.

 

I'm all for gay rights, but I don't see what homosexuality has to do with Ukraine. Is this protest about more than just the Ukraine issue? I think protests are more effective when they are about a single issue.

 

 

There is a connection between gay rights and the nationalist interests of Russia in Ukraine. And that connection is Putin, we know that Putin has started legislating homophobia in Russia. So any march that is opposed to Russian interference in Ukraine will also bring about gay  people in Russia joining the protest who being discriminated against

 

It all boils down top the same objective, raising awareness to the authoritarian policies of Putin

 

Putin may be behind both the those situation, but they are still separate issues. If they had staged a protest about gay rights exclusively; I suspect the results would be better than getting the issue mixed up with other policies.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Gays-Exhibitionist's visit this march also.

 

I'm all for gay rights, but I don't see what homosexuality has to do with Ukraine. Is this protest about more than just the Ukraine issue? I think protests are more effective when they are about a single issue.

 

 

There is a connection between gay rights and the nationalist interests of Russia in Ukraine. And that connection is Putin, we know that Putin has started legislating homophobia in Russia. So any march that is opposed to Russian interference in Ukraine will also bring about gay  people in Russia joining the protest who being discriminated against

 

It all boils down top the same objective, raising awareness to the authoritarian policies of Putin

 

Putin may be behind both the those situation, but they are still separate issues. If they had staged a protest about gay rights exclusively; I suspect the results would be better than getting the issue mixed up with other policies.

 

 

There is suppression of certain  basic human rights, like the right to protest, in Russia so  I can completely understand why gay activists would jump on the bandwagon to raise visibility to there cause during a anti-war protest. 

 

You must be aware how heavy handed the Russian police  have been in the past when there were dedicated protests raising visibility around homophobia

 

If I was a gay Russian I would also use an anti-war protest to champion my cause because you are shielded by all the other protesters in certain respects

[Namutree]

 

Putin may be behind both the those situation, but they are still separate issues. If they had staged a protest about gay rights exclusively; I suspect the results would be better than getting the issue mixed up with other policies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is suppression of certain  basic human rights, like the right to protest, in Russia so  I can completely understand why gay activists would jump on the bandwagon to raise visibility to there cause during a anti-war protest. 

 

You must be aware how heavy handed the Russian police  have been in the past when there were dedicated protests raising visibility around homophobia

 

If I was a gay Russian I would also use an anti-war protest to champion my cause because you are shielded by all the other protesters in certain respects

 

Gay rights activists may be shooting themselves in the foot by being associated with this protest,

[Fighter]

These type of things had been damaging any protest movement in Russia for years. Nothing to do with right and wrong, just a fact. Most ordinary Russians see opposition protests as a collection of dressed up carnival freaks.

 

It is a question of priorities. Things like gay rights, etc, are very low on the list of concerns that most people have to deal with.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Fighter

[BruceVC]

These type of things had been damaging any protest movement in Russia for years. Nothing to do with right and wrong, just a fact. Most ordinary Russians see opposition protests as a collection of dressed up carnival freaks.

 

It is a question of priorities. Things like gay rights, etc, are very low on the list of concerns that most people have to deal with.

 

I hear you and for anyone who isn't gay that would be applicable. But how high on the list of priorities would gay rights be for you if you were gay?

[Longknife]

 

These type of things had been damaging any protest movement in Russia for years. Nothing to do with right and wrong, just a fact. Most ordinary Russians see opposition protests as a collection of dressed up carnival freaks.

 

It is a question of priorities. Things like gay rights, etc, are very low on the list of concerns that most people have to deal with.

 

I hear you and for anyone who isn't gay that would be applicable. But how high on the list of priorities would gay rights be for you if you were gay?

 

 

 

I can tell you from experience that the further East you travel, the less gaydar people actually have. Noticed it VERY quickly when a class I had with people from various countries included a flaming gay Ukrainian and only myself and the latinos seemed to notice, while the asians and russians were all oblivious to it. I would later go on to advise a female russian friend that her love interest was flaming gay (which I determined after speaking to them for a grand total of five seconds) not once, but twice.

 

  In that sense, I promise you blending in as a "normal guy" if you're a flaming gay homosexual is pretty darned easy in Russia. They're not gonna drop dead suddenly any time soon.

 

 

 

And having said that, I think what Fighter is saying is that you need to pick and choose your battles wisely. If a massive gay pride protest and parade took place in Moscow tomorrow, no one would take it seriously. If it were a protest for peace completely devoid of any gay representation, it'll be heard. Pick your battles and focus on the one you have a chance of winning first. If a gay Russian insists gay rights is more important, he's more than welcome to organize a protest aimed at that....though in my experience with the culture, I highly doubt anyone would have the balls to do that, and understandably so....which AGAIN highlights how that's the more difficult battle and the one to put on hold for now.

[Walsingham]

I've come to believe that Putin's entire political stance is predicated in a single truth: that in the presence of enough information, particularly discordant information, most people simply shut down and become passive.

 

For an authoritarian regime, which distrusts democracy passive shutdown is all he needs. Hence the blizzard of individually ludicrous lies being fed out by the Kremlin media. They don't need to make us believe the Kremlin, they just need to make us tired of talking about the issues.

 

Hence, the gay rights issue is useful in two ways: it gives spurious reassurance to the notion that Putin stands for Russian nationalist independence from Western thought; and it divides discussion time ion forums like this.

 

I don't mean to belittle what Putin is doing, and excusing against LGBT people. But the real issue is what he's done to the ENTIRE Russian people and culture.

[BruceVC]

 

 

These type of things had been damaging any protest movement in Russia for years. Nothing to do with right and wrong, just a fact. Most ordinary Russians see opposition protests as a collection of dressed up carnival freaks.

 

It is a question of priorities. Things like gay rights, etc, are very low on the list of concerns that most people have to deal with.

 

I hear you and for anyone who isn't gay that would be applicable. But how high on the list of priorities would gay rights be for you if you were gay?

 

 

 

I can tell you from experience that the further East you travel, the less gaydar people actually have. Noticed it VERY quickly when a class I had with people from various countries included a flaming gay Ukrainian and only myself and the latinos seemed to notice, while the asians and russians were all oblivious to it. I would later go on to advise a female russian friend that her love interest was flaming gay (which I determined after speaking to them for a grand total of five seconds) not once, but twice.

 

  In that sense, I promise you blending in as a "normal guy" if you're a flaming gay homosexual is pretty darned easy in Russia. They're not gonna drop dead suddenly any time soon.

 

 

 

And having said that, I think what Fighter is saying is that you need to pick and choose your battles wisely. If a massive gay pride protest and parade took place in Moscow tomorrow, no one would take it seriously. If it were a protest for peace completely devoid of any gay representation, it'll be heard. Pick your battles and focus on the one you have a chance of winning first. If a gay Russian insists gay rights is more important, he's more than welcome to organize a protest aimed at that....though in my experience with the culture, I highly doubt anyone would have the balls to do that, and understandably so....which AGAIN highlights how that's the more difficult battle and the one to put on hold for now.

 

 

Campaigns for basic human rights and dignity shouldn't be not practiced in a place like Russia just because of the Ukraine issue. These concerns can be interchangeable

 

In other words I don't buy  this whole argument that says " just because people are protesting about Ukrainian crisis gay activists also shouldn't protest"

 

Imagine trying to sell that logic to activists in any Western country? You take what awareness you can raise in a place like Russia, you can't really be selective because its not  like these types of marches are common as far as I know?

Edited September 22, 2014 by BruceVC

[Longknife]

 

 

 

These type of things had been damaging any protest movement in Russia for years. Nothing to do with right and wrong, just a fact. Most ordinary Russians see opposition protests as a collection of dressed up carnival freaks.

 

It is a question of priorities. Things like gay rights, etc, are very low on the list of concerns that most people have to deal with.

 

I hear you and for anyone who isn't gay that would be applicable. But how high on the list of priorities would gay rights be for you if you were gay?

 

 

 

I can tell you from experience that the further East you travel, the less gaydar people actually have. Noticed it VERY quickly when a class I had with people from various countries included a flaming gay Ukrainian and only myself and the latinos seemed to notice, while the asians and russians were all oblivious to it. I would later go on to advise a female russian friend that her love interest was flaming gay (which I determined after speaking to them for a grand total of five seconds) not once, but twice.

 

  In that sense, I promise you blending in as a "normal guy" if you're a flaming gay homosexual is pretty darned easy in Russia. They're not gonna drop dead suddenly any time soon.

 

 

 

And having said that, I think what Fighter is saying is that you need to pick and choose your battles wisely. If a massive gay pride protest and parade took place in Moscow tomorrow, no one would take it seriously. If it were a protest for peace completely devoid of any gay representation, it'll be heard. Pick your battles and focus on the one you have a chance of winning first. If a gay Russian insists gay rights is more important, he's more than welcome to organize a protest aimed at that....though in my experience with the culture, I highly doubt anyone would have the balls to do that, and understandably so....which AGAIN highlights how that's the more difficult battle and the one to put on hold for now.

 

 

Campaigns for basic human rights and dignity shouldn't be not practiced in a place like Russia just because of the Ukraine issue. These concerns can be interchangeable

 

In other words I don't buy  this whole argument that says " just because people are protesting about Ukrainian crisis gay activists also shouldn't protest"

 

Imagine trying to sell that logic to activists in any Western country? You take what awareness you can raise in a place like Russia, you can't really be selective because its not  like these types of marches are common as far as I know?

 

 

 

I don't think you read my post.

 

No one is saying they can't be there. All that was said was please don't be flaming gay and come dressing or acting in a way that screams "I'm gay" because it detracts from the purpose. This is hardly a big issue: I have to dress professionally for a job interview, they're being asked to dress less flamboyantly for protests.

 

No one is saying they shouldn't protest about gay rights. All that was said is that in an idealistic world, that would be the case. In reality, they could get f***ing shot. Therefore, it doesn't happen. They probably want to, but also know better, and thus stay quiet and weigh SAFER options in their heads. I promise you if you went to Russia and gave your speech about basic human rights and how you should all march on the Kremlin...if you gave that speech to the very gay people who would benefit from the protest, a good percent of them wouldn't support your protest out of fear and would likely try to talk you out of it.

 

 

And this is not the west. You'd be horrendously naive to handle a problem in the East as you do in the west. Different cultures exist, different mentalities exist. Act appropriately for each if you wish to live long. I for one don't go telling people my religion (or lack thereof) while in the Southern States in the USA because I'm smart enough to know it'll cause trouble, and I'm also realistic enough to know that if I organized a agnostic/athiest pride parade in a Southern state, all it'd accomplish is it might start a fight. Therefore, don't bother. The athiests and agnostics in that state will know to keep their mouths shut and pretend they're Christian too, those that don't deal with extra stress and conflict. That same rule does not apply to the rest of the United States, nor to Germany, nor to the Netherlands, nor to Canada. However, it's probably not wise to discuss how disgusted you are by Israel in Germany. (here nothing bad would happen to you, it's just gonna be HELLA AWKWARD and uncomfortable for the room)

 

   Different cultures react different ways and must be handled differently. You're free to go to Moscow and act just like you would in your own country, but don't act surprised when you end up arrested.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Longknife

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

These type of things had been damaging any protest movement in Russia for years. Nothing to do with right and wrong, just a fact. Most ordinary Russians see opposition protests as a collection of dressed up carnival freaks.

 

It is a question of priorities. Things like gay rights, etc, are very low on the list of concerns that most people have to deal with.

 

I hear you and for anyone who isn't gay that would be applicable. But how high on the list of priorities would gay rights be for you if you were gay?

 

 

 

I can tell you from experience that the further East you travel, the less gaydar people actually have. Noticed it VERY quickly when a class I had with people from various countries included a flaming gay Ukrainian and only myself and the latinos seemed to notice, while the asians and russians were all oblivious to it. I would later go on to advise a female russian friend that her love interest was flaming gay (which I determined after speaking to them for a grand total of five seconds) not once, but twice.

 

  In that sense, I promise you blending in as a "normal guy" if you're a flaming gay homosexual is pretty darned easy in Russia. They're not gonna drop dead suddenly any time soon.

 

 

 

And having said that, I think what Fighter is saying is that you need to pick and choose your battles wisely. If a massive gay pride protest and parade took place in Moscow tomorrow, no one would take it seriously. If it were a protest for peace completely devoid of any gay representation, it'll be heard. Pick your battles and focus on the one you have a chance of winning first. If a gay Russian insists gay rights is more important, he's more than welcome to organize a protest aimed at that....though in my experience with the culture, I highly doubt anyone would have the balls to do that, and understandably so....which AGAIN highlights how that's the more difficult battle and the one to put on hold for now.

 

 

Campaigns for basic human rights and dignity shouldn't be not practiced in a place like Russia just because of the Ukraine issue. These concerns can be interchangeable

 

In other words I don't buy  this whole argument that says " just because people are protesting about Ukrainian crisis gay activists also shouldn't protest"

 

Imagine trying to sell that logic to activists in any Western country? You take what awareness you can raise in a place like Russia, you can't really be selective because its not  like these types of marches are common as far as I know?

 

 

I think problem is that there are many people that may support Ukraine but simply dont support LGBT movement. So in the end it hurts those people who just want to show support to Ukraine because they end up in same basket as LGBT movement.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

These type of things had been damaging any protest movement in Russia for years. Nothing to do with right and wrong, just a fact. Most ordinary Russians see opposition protests as a collection of dressed up carnival freaks.

 

It is a question of priorities. Things like gay rights, etc, are very low on the list of concerns that most people have to deal with.

 

I hear you and for anyone who isn't gay that would be applicable. But how high on the list of priorities would gay rights be for you if you were gay?

 

 

 

I can tell you from experience that the further East you travel, the less gaydar people actually have. Noticed it VERY quickly when a class I had with people from various countries included a flaming gay Ukrainian and only myself and the latinos seemed to notice, while the asians and russians were all oblivious to it. I would later go on to advise a female russian friend that her love interest was flaming gay (which I determined after speaking to them for a grand total of five seconds) not once, but twice.

 

  In that sense, I promise you blending in as a "normal guy" if you're a flaming gay homosexual is pretty darned easy in Russia. They're not gonna drop dead suddenly any time soon.

 

 

 

And having said that, I think what Fighter is saying is that you need to pick and choose your battles wisely. If a massive gay pride protest and parade took place in Moscow tomorrow, no one would take it seriously. If it were a protest for peace completely devoid of any gay representation, it'll be heard. Pick your battles and focus on the one you have a chance of winning first. If a gay Russian insists gay rights is more important, he's more than welcome to organize a protest aimed at that....though in my experience with the culture, I highly doubt anyone would have the balls to do that, and understandably so....which AGAIN highlights how that's the more difficult battle and the one to put on hold for now.

 

 

Campaigns for basic human rights and dignity shouldn't be not practiced in a place like Russia just because of the Ukraine issue. These concerns can be interchangeable

 

In other words I don't buy  this whole argument that says " just because people are protesting about Ukrainian crisis gay activists also shouldn't protest"

 

Imagine trying to sell that logic to activists in any Western country? You take what awareness you can raise in a place like Russia, you can't really be selective because its not  like these types of marches are common as far as I know?

 

 

 

I don't think you read my post.

 

No one is saying they can't be there. All that was said was please don't be flaming gay and come dressing or acting in a way that screams "I'm gay" because it detracts from the purpose. This is hardly a big issue: I have to dress professionally for a job interview, they're being asked to dress less flamboyantly for protests.

 

No one is saying they shouldn't protest about gay rights. All that was said is that in an idealistic world, that would be the case. In reality, they could get f***ing shot. Therefore, it doesn't happen. They probably want to, but also know better, and thus stay quiet and weigh SAFER options in their heads. I promise you if you went to Russia and gave your speech about basic human rights and how you should all march on the Kremlin...if you gave that speech to the very gay people who would benefit from the protest, a good percent of them wouldn't support your protest out of fear and would likely try to talk you out of it.

 

 

And this is not the west. You'd be horrendously naive to handle a problem in the East as you do in the west. Different cultures exist, different mentalities exist. Act appropriately for each if you wish to live long. I for one don't go telling people my religion (or lack thereof) while in the Southern States in the USA because I'm smart enough to know it'll cause trouble, and I'm also realistic enough to know that if I organized a agnostic/athiest pride parade in a Southern state, all it'd accomplish is it might start a fight. Therefore, don't bother. The athiests and agnostics in that state will know to keep their mouths shut and pretend they're Christian too, those that don't deal with extra stress and conflict. That same rule does not apply to the rest of the United States, nor to Germany, nor to the Netherlands, nor to Canada. However, it's probably not wise to discuss how disgusted you are by Israel in Germany. (here nothing bad would happen to you, it's just gonna be HELLA AWKWARD and uncomfortable for the room)

 

   Different cultures react different ways and must be handled differently. You're free to go to Moscow and act just like you would in your own country, but don't act surprised when you end up arrested.

 

 

I did read what you said but I don't think I explained my point properly

 

And you have actually summarized the exact issue with why gay activists are protesting at the peace march, I agree with you. Russia is not the West and I would be intimidated and probably deported if I started to raise awareness around gay rights. And most gay people probably wouldn't join my campaign out of fear.

 

But that's why  they are doing it at the peace march, the Russian authorities are less likely to be heavy handed. And just to be clear, the purpose of them being in the march is to say " I'm a  gay Russian  and I want people to know ", sp  the flamboyant  dress is part of the message and the way they raise visibility. So again the argument that's says " they need to dress differently " defeats the point of what they are trying to achieve

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

These type of things had been damaging any protest movement in Russia for years. Nothing to do with right and wrong, just a fact. Most ordinary Russians see opposition protests as a collection of dressed up carnival freaks.

 

It is a question of priorities. Things like gay rights, etc, are very low on the list of concerns that most people have to deal with.

 

I hear you and for anyone who isn't gay that would be applicable. But how high on the list of priorities would gay rights be for you if you were gay?

 

 

 

I can tell you from experience that the further East you travel, the less gaydar people actually have. Noticed it VERY quickly when a class I had with people from various countries included a flaming gay Ukrainian and only myself and the latinos seemed to notice, while the asians and russians were all oblivious to it. I would later go on to advise a female russian friend that her love interest was flaming gay (which I determined after speaking to them for a grand total of five seconds) not once, but twice.

 

  In that sense, I promise you blending in as a "normal guy" if you're a flaming gay homosexual is pretty darned easy in Russia. They're not gonna drop dead suddenly any time soon.

 

 

 

And having said that, I think what Fighter is saying is that you need to pick and choose your battles wisely. If a massive gay pride protest and parade took place in Moscow tomorrow, no one would take it seriously. If it were a protest for peace completely devoid of any gay representation, it'll be heard. Pick your battles and focus on the one you have a chance of winning first. If a gay Russian insists gay rights is more important, he's more than welcome to organize a protest aimed at that....though in my experience with the culture, I highly doubt anyone would have the balls to do that, and understandably so....which AGAIN highlights how that's the more difficult battle and the one to put on hold for now.

 

 

Campaigns for basic human rights and dignity shouldn't be not practiced in a place like Russia just because of the Ukraine issue. These concerns can be interchangeable

 

In other words I don't buy  this whole argument that says " just because people are protesting about Ukrainian crisis gay activists also shouldn't protest"

 

Imagine trying to sell that logic to activists in any Western country? You take what awareness you can raise in a place like Russia, you can't really be selective because its not  like these types of marches are common as far as I know?

 

 

I think problem is that there are many people that may support Ukraine but simply dont support LGBT movement. So in the end it hurts those people who just want to show support to Ukraine because they end up in same basket as LGBT movement.

 

 

Good point, I can see the logic behind your post. Its a pity but I can see how that may be the case

Edited September 22, 2014 by BruceVC

[Longknife]

 

But that's why  they are doing it at the peace march, the Russian authorities are less likely to be heavy handed. And just to be clear, the purpose of them being in the march is to say " I'm a  gay Russian  and I want people to know ", sp  the flamboyant  dress is part of the message and the way they raise visibility. So again the argument that's says " they need to dress differently " defeats the point of what they are trying to achieve

 

 

 

But they're not achieving anything, that's the point.

 

The message is to play smart. Think logically, not emotionally.

[BruceVC]

 

 

But that's why  they are doing it at the peace march, the Russian authorities are less likely to be heavy handed. And just to be clear, the purpose of them being in the march is to say " I'm a  gay Russian  and I want people to know ", sp  the flamboyant  dress is part of the message and the way they raise visibility. So again the argument that's says " they need to dress differently " defeats the point of what they are trying to achieve

 

 

 

But they're not achieving anything, that's the point.

 

The message is to play smart. Think logically, not emotionally.

 

 

You really think they aren't achieving anything? You may be right,  but what about  some pride and dignity. They not be achieving political change but just the fact they can partake in a march without being beaten up or arrested must be worth something?

[Longknife]

 

 

 

But that's why  they are doing it at the peace march, the Russian authorities are less likely to be heavy handed. And just to be clear, the purpose of them being in the march is to say " I'm a  gay Russian  and I want people to know ", sp  the flamboyant  dress is part of the message and the way they raise visibility. So again the argument that's says " they need to dress differently " defeats the point of what they are trying to achieve

 

 

 

But they're not achieving anything, that's the point.

 

The message is to play smart. Think logically, not emotionally.

 

 

You really think they aren't achieving anything? You may be right,  but what about  some pride and dignity.

 

 

Emotions.

[Fighter]

I hear you and for anyone who isn't gay that would be applicable. But how high on the list of priorities would gay rights be for you if you were gay?

 

I don't know what I would do if I were gay. But I know there is a very long list of things that would need to be settled first before the Russian society can even begin to have a real conversation about gay issues.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I had sex with a Russian girl once, she scratched the **** out of me. Is this fairly common?

[obyknven]

I had sex with a Russian girl once, she scratched the **** out of me. Is this fairly common?

Yep

[Zoraptor]

She was imagining you were Vladimir Vladimirovich- and he wouldn't care about any puny scratches.

 

('Scratched the **** out of me' might explain some people's intense butthurt about things Russian though...)

 

Hence, the gay rights issue is useful in two ways: it gives spurious reassurance to the notion that Putin stands for Russian nationalist independence from Western thought; and it divides discussion time ion forums like this.

 

I don't think that issue has anything significant to do with information overload type stuff, it's far more likely that most Russians just plain don't care about LGBT issues much at all, and most of those who do are anti rather than pro. Russia is both conservative and not particularly rich, the average Russian is unlikely to spend much time being a SJW on the internet because they're busy doing other things and caring about other things, don't access the internet etc. The only play it has is with regards to a 'decadent west trying to subvert brave Russia' narrative, and anything can be spun that way; though in this case it is certainly counter productive to give direct ammunition for such an interpretation. But overall social activism is very much a fundamental of being rich (relatively), bored, 'liberal' and middle class.

[Walsingham]

She was imagining you were Vladimir Vladimirovich- and he wouldn't care about any puny scratches.

 

('Scratched the **** out of me' might explain some people's intense butthurt about things Russian though...)

 

Hence, the gay rights issue is useful in two ways: it gives spurious reassurance to the notion that Putin stands for Russian nationalist independence from Western thought; and it divides discussion time ion forums like this.

 

I don't think that issue has anything significant to do with information overload type stuff, it's far more likely that most Russians just plain don't care about LGBT issues much at all, and most of those who do are anti rather than pro. Russia is both conservative and not particularly rich, the average Russian is unlikely to spend much time being a SJW on the internet because they're busy doing other things and caring about other things, don't access the internet etc. The only play it has is with regards to a 'decadent west trying to subvert brave Russia' narrative, and anything can be spun that way; though in this case it is certainly counter productive to give direct ammunition for such an interpretation. But overall social activism is very much a fundamental of being rich (relatively), bored, 'liberal' and middle class.

 

So you're saying that money makes you gay?

[HoonDing]

I wonder how Natalia Vladimirovna is doing.