The General Builds Thread

[silverlock]

They're different restrictions. "Casting spells" or "Ruling at melee combat" are class-related features. "Surviving in the front line," "Dealing damage from the back," or "Supporting other characters" are broader roles. They've kept the former while relaxing the latter, which is a good thing IMO.

 

Agreed. I'm running a second game with a melee (2H + Breastplate wearing) Cipher. It was typically very hard to play an effective "spellsword" style character in IE/D&D CRPGs, so I'm glad PoE seems to have made some concessions there—at least from the small snippet of beta gameplay.

[Billy O]

 

You're right about the glass cannon thing. Still, both Health and Endurance are extremely important; dump one or both and you will feel it.

 

But in the end it would not matter, lets asume we know all stats in the game and know which combination of crit/damage/accuracy gives the best damage. If we know that than we would spend our points accordingly and in the end a bow user, spell thrower or whatever you get the point would be basicaly the same. It would also mean that a bow is inferior in every way because spells offer so much more. Furthermore a spell user could always grap a bow and get the same results with it as with a single target spell. Thiers no reason to specialize.

 

But the bow user can have an animal companion. Essentially a second tank which makes it much less likely that enemies get past the front line. Damage isn't everything if you are squishy.

[aeonsim]

I think Perception would be critical for anti-ability style characters, a high interrupt chance is going to screw over heavily ability focused classes and allows the creation of lock-down characters who aren't focused on doing damage but are instead interested in shutting down the enemies ability to use spells and special abilities.

 

Think of fighting an enemy mage where you can use a high Perception ranged character to interrupt a decent percentage of their spells or doing the same to a Monk or Cipher trying to use their abilities.

 

Or think about it vice versa how well would your party hold up if there were a couple of enemies maxed out on Perception using high interrupt weapons and interrupting your attempts to use your abilities. Say targeting your Priest so you couldn't get any heals or buffs off, or your mage or Cipher so they couldn't get there high damage abilities into play.

Or consider an enemy Mage with maxed Int & Perception, the high Int gives them a massive AOE and spell duration so they hit your whole party at once and the high Perception could mean that as long as your taking damage from the spell there is a high chance you won't be able to use any of your abilities?

 

While Perception and Resolve may be a bit weak at the moment I think they can be improved either by strengthening there current effect and making it more obvious when there effects kick in ie a clear notification when an Interrupt occurs blocking one of your abilities or an enemy one.

Edited August 21, 2014 by aeonsim

[Fearabbit]

My thoughts about the attribute system and how to improve it.

 

Putting a link here in case it gets overlooked in the other forum. Note: I did not play the beta, but I've watched several playthroughs and read several discussions about the attributes. This is more an attempt to make the system more intuitive, while hopefully keeping it balanced.

[ctn2003]

I think the mold is good ..but id liek to see a better ui and inventory.

[Matt516]

Commenting to remind myself to do the math on exactly how much DEX increases your expected dps (will edit after work). The long and the short of it though is that 1 point of DEX equates (in general) to a 1% increased chance to crit, and a 1% decreased chance to miss. Graze and hit chances stay the same unless you move past 5 points difference, in which case crit or miss chance is at 0 and either graze or hit chance starts decreasing instead.

 

Like I said, I'll crunch the numbers.. My hunch is that each point of Might equates to a higher expected dps increase though. In which case the devs will need to decide if they want that to be true or not.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Matt516

[TheisEjsing]

I have a question about might and the function of might. In the description it says, that might is used for intimidation. But isn't CON the stats which determine your physical size. How broad your shoulders are and so forth. An example. Let's take Merlin the famous mage. I imagine that he got high MIGHT and INT, but very low CON due to the fact that he is an old fragile man, who can lay waste to armies with his vast arsenal of powerful spells. But he wouldn't look very intimidating strolling down the street with his walking staff. 

 

I know might says physical strength, but it means that in the system every person in the world with powerful damage abilities, will be looking like Bautista. Ripped old dudes aren't very fantasy or EI like characters.

 

So here's the question, how to solve that? ^_^

[Longknife]

Consider attaching a couple more effects onto some of the more underrated stats, such as a bonus to critical hit rate or additional casts per rest/per encounter. I've suggested additional casts per rest/per encounter for intelligence, but someone else pointed out resolve might need more help. Either seems fine and I trust Obsidian's judgement on that.

 

Likewise, consider doubling the impact of attributes or cutting down on attribute points given. Yes we want diversity and every build to be viable but I don't think it'd be a terrible crime if more stat weight meant ~80% of builds were viable and we noticed little things like Priests without Int being a taboo (but every other stat is viable once INT is cared for).

 

 

Also, perhaps give races and backrounds more weight. A simple working suggestion would be to, for example, take away some of the attribute points we're given in exchange for beefing up the stat bonuses from culture and race. For example, take 4 stat points from our total, but then raise the culture bonuses from +1 to +5. That's admittedly a simplistic change with little weight itself, but I'd prefer that to the petty +1 we see now. Alternatively and more importantly, consider implementing "Traits" (the Fallout style of Traits) to each race to make that choice carry more weight; attribute bonuses don't seem to do them much justice. Yes I understand the cultural and dialog implications are probably what carry the weight here, but more variance = always better imo. Consider simple things like - spitballing ideas here - Elves have only 90% of the cast cooldown other classes have, Dwarves get an additional 4 DT points naturally, oran (? the little animal dudes) get extra base crit and humans get lowered stat checks in dialog across the board (AKA a 16 Perception check becomes a 13 or whatever). Little things like that would help add to diversity and replay value.

[PrimeJunta]

Concerning gish builds.

 

The way I see this would work is (1) wizard self-buffs into short-duration melee monster, (2) wizard charges into melee, makes mayhem, (3) buffs run out and wizard self-extracts back to the second row. 

 

Now, the wizard has a rather nice selection of self-buffs which could be used for this purpose. There are various spells which increase defenses and even deal damage to attackers, there are spells for fast movement or even (at L4) short-range teleport which could be used to get out when the buffs run out. However, there appears to be one piece missing from this puzzle though. Accuracy. 

 

There is a level 1 spell which dramatically increases accuracy, but it is so short-duration that it is effectively a single-attack spell only, or almost; even the Arcane Veil stays up a good deal longer. It is not really useful for this tactic, so the upshot is that the wizard rushes into combat, whiffs madly for a while, then rushes back.

 

It would be nice to have a selection of longer-duration accuracy self-buffs to make this type of tactic more viable. I don't think it would be unbalacing as it would require step-by-step hands-on attention and the damage would be a burst rather than sustained.

[Shadenuat]

There's Tenser's Transform like spell at level 5 or 6 that switches stats around and forbids casting. That would be most used for tankomages. There's also a contingency that stuns enemies if wizards reaches low hp.

 

Thing is, without pre-buffing, playing a spellsword in PoE is one dull experience. You enter combat and cast the staff spell, then mirror image, then some speed spell, then +accuracy spell... at that point enemies might already be dead.

 

I would add some sort of talent in the game that would allow wizard to instantly buff up with a few low level spells at the cost of spell slots, or something like that. Like a sequencer that holds 1-2 spells but doubles spell cost.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Shadenuat

[Sensuki]

I'm finding the core classes are playing like pretty boring/gimped versions of their IE counterparts. Virtually no flexibility.

 

The Fighter feels like a worse version of the already pretty terrible "Warrior" class in DA:O. Currently as a Fighter you pretty much do this:

 

Wear Heavy Armor

IF enemies > 1 TOGGLE Defender Mode

DO Knockdown x 2

END

 

That is literally how they play in every fight, it's so monotonous. I'm not finding them a fun class at all due to their inflexibility.

 

Wizards and Clerics don't have anywhere near as much flexibility with spell casting as they did in any of the IE games, even Baldur's Gate + TotSC. With the Cleric it feels like all you do is sit at the back and drop heals and buffs and occasionally make a ranged standard attack, due to the fact that there's no pre-buffing and they're pretty terrible at melee combat, unlike Priests in D&D.

 

I've only used the Wizard with the BB Grimoire so far, but it seems like all you really do is drop a Fireball or some other big damage spell to open an encounter, and then spam Minoletta's Minor Missiles or whatever else, and if an enemy attacks you in melee, you drop Arcane Veil. Also probably better off using a Firearm atm than a Wand.

 

The ones that are fresh are: Cipher, Chanter, Ranger. Ciphers and Chanters can be melee or ranged which is good and their mechanics are new and fresh so they're fun to play. Rangers are fun because the teamwork with the Animal Companion is fresh, and there's a lot of potential there with talents etc.

 

Monk feels a bit ehhh. The Monk I made actually faired better vs the Beetles than the BB Fighter did, but I'm finding that a lot of the time I don't get to use many abilities even if I send my Monk in first. They either take too much damage, and only get off a couple of abilities due to the recovery time system, or they don't take enough damage at a time and you just auto attack your way through the combat.

 

Haven't played: Paladin, Druid, Barbarian.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Sensuki

[IndiraLightfoot]

I'm finding the core classes are playing like pretty boring/gimped versions of their IE counterparts. Virtually no flexibility.

 

The Fighter feels like a worse version of the already pretty terrible "Warrior" class in DA:O. Currently as a Fighter you pretty much do this:

 

Wear Heavy Armor

IF enemies > 1 TOGGLE Defender Mode

DO Knockdown x 2

END

 

This doesn't bode well for my plan to play a ranged fighter using a bow in my first playthrough. :/

[PrimeJunta]

No, ranged fighters aren't currently supported. You'd be gimping yourself. A ranged cipher who refuses to use cipher abilities would actually work out better.

 

This would be easy to remedy, and I hope they will.

[Fearabbit]

No, ranged fighters aren't currently supported. You'd be gimping yourself. A ranged cipher who refuses to use cipher abilities would actually work out better.

 

This would be easy to remedy, and I hope they will.

 

But a ranged cipher could also use his abilities, right? Because I was thinking about making a cipher with a focus on crossbows and firearms.

And how about ranged rogues? Is that a possibility? I mean it would make more sense than a ranged fighter anyhow, since a fighter is supposed to be the tank in the front.

[Sylvanpyxie]

But a ranged cipher could also use his abilities, right? Because I was thinking about making a cipher with a focus on crossbows and firearms.

Ranged weapon + Int/Dex  Cipher can be pretty immense. Increased duration on their CC abilities and their Damage over Time spells is off the charts insane.

 

In fact, Ciphers are pretty much the poster boys for Intellect being OP.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Sylvanpyxie

[PrimeJunta]

But a ranged cipher could also use his abilities, right? Because I was thinking about making a cipher with a focus on crossbows and firearms.

And how about ranged rogues? Is that a possibility? I mean it would make more sense than a ranged fighter anyhow, since a fighter is supposed to be the tank in the front.

 

Ranged ciphers are a bit of a deathlord at the moment actually. Low-risk, very high-reward.

 

Ranged rogues are poorly supported as--AFAICT--all of their specials are melee only.

[Mayama]

 

 

Big +1 on the ranged knockdown. Great idea.

 

For the gish weapon focus... not so sure. I think the fun from playing a gish is that you can buff yourself to ridiculous levels, but only for a short period of time. If you're as good with a sword as a fighter and additionally can cast spells, that's just kind of munchkiny. So I'd rather have talents/spells that let your wizard make mayhem in melee for great burst damage.

 

(Also I liked the paladin. Thought it struck a very nice balance between low-maintenance fighters and high-maintenance priests.)

 

Give the wizard are talent thats called something like "arcane focus" and reads: Every buff on you gives you +X accuracy. 

 

[Osvir]

Lorekeeper (Druidic Talent) - Gain Extra +3 Lore as a Druid, +2 as any other Class +Attacking/+Casting Time Reduced (Might be a bit OP, as Attacks = More Lore from enemies, but it also makes sense in a way.. someone who knows lots of Lore... knows how to retrieve it faster? *shrug*)

[PrimeJunta]

Another thought on making the fighter and rogue classes more flexible and interesting.

 

Blow them wide open. Let the player distribute the melee/ranged accuracy points. Add ranged talents. Allow the player to pick from among them starting from level 1. So we could build the current tanky fighter by picking knockdown, stamina regeneration, extra engagement target, and Defender mode, and dump all the points in melee accuracy; or we could dump all the points in Ranged, picking Fast Aim (modal), Crippling Shot (2/encounter), Knockdown Shot (2/encounter), and what have you. Or we could go half and half and get a nice musketeer-type who switches between ranged and melee flexibly.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Anyone tried out intellect Barb yet...? I just jumped in to check out duration increases on their abilities, didn't see any effect. It might not be as viable as the demo-vids suggested... Or maybe it's bugged.

[PrimeJunta]

I did. On the other hand I didn't try a dumb barbarian so I can't tell if there was any difference. Rage certainly lasted long enough to make an impact. Couldn't tell if the Carnage AoE was big or small due to the general impenetrability of the combat.

[constantine]

Hello. Old thread, but since the final beta build, 435, is released I thought to ressurect it so we can talk about builds.

 

My interest is in building a DPS, Greatsword-wielding Fighter (GS is my personal preference, it looks rly cool ).

 

Thoughts on talent selection and attribute distribution ?

 

While I say DPS, I think in PoE such a build would be described better as ' high dmg per hit' . But you get the idea. Also, do you think a single weapon or dual-weilding fighter could do more DPS than the two-hander ?

Edited February 4, 2015 by constantine

[BlueLion]

I was also thinking of greatsword wielding fighter aiming for high dmg rather than durability. Its either that or a CC character, Cipher or Druid.

[Bazy]

What is the best tank and offtank?

 

I think in terms of passive defenses Fighter is clearly the best... but bring almost nothing else to the fight. Every class seems viable tank if you sword (hatchet) and board them, except monks. I can see priest/chanter tanks being really amazing late game. Being nearly as tanky as a fighter, but with much more utility/damage. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by Bazy

[Sensuki]

Things are a bit different in this build because it's harder to crit and you miss more often.

Rogues have taken a nose-dive into mediocrity. Light weapons are terrible.

Monks are still awesome though.