The Official Romance Thread

[ashtonw]

Please don't take NWN_babaYaga to be representative of the posters here. :\ There are at least a few people here who can articulate an opinion without being a ****.

[Leferd]

Wow...I didn't realize there were many wise crack know it alls here on the forums.

Yep. There are. Welcome to the forums!

[NWN_babaYaga]

and how you reacted shows me that i caught you cold. How i did that? I grew up in jerky town known for the many jerks and so am I. Say hello to the proud jerk!

[Mangonel]

Beware what u ask for.....

i have a mental image of Mr. A sighing and being frustrated and angry that he gives in and writes a romance outta spite. One so dreary, dark, unlustful, drab, boring, and so bad that it sends the promancers runnimg and screaming for the hills, to never again ask or beg for another romance from obsidian.

 

Or u know point out the romances they have done so far with alpha protocol and whatnot.

 

I could soook see Mr. A do this chuckling and laughing to himself

 

Hmmm, makes me think it would be interesting to have a romantic tragedy in a game. Not so much in a Shakespearean sense, but more in a ****-gets-real sense towards the climax. If done well, it would certainly provide player motivation to defeat the big bad, or as motivation into an expansion/sequel.

[Lephys]

Obsidian.. please reconsider adding romance to the game.

 

Or at least make a vote for it! let everyone of your fans make their vote heard.

 

if your fans wants you to add romance to the game, tell what it will cost and we will most likely give it to u.

A vote just isn't really going to help at this point (nor will any amount of extra consideration on Obsidian's part), because it'd be a vote between an objectively bad decision -- trying to cram romance into the game in this home stretch -- and an objectively good decision.

 

In an ideal world, I'd snap my fingers, and romance would be easily put into the game before it comes out. But, that's just not going to happen. And I think if you look back, you'll find more than enough pages about how well putting romance in for the sake of having romance in works.

 

But hey, there's always the expansion. This thread is basically here to discuss the merits/pitfalls/what-have-yous of romance in a game like PoE, in the event that it's at all beneficial towards a future implementation, or just for design-brainstorming funsies. Take your pick.

[Stun]

if your fans wants you to add romance to the game, tell what it will cost and we will most likely give it to u.

This is actually a terrific idea. If I was Obsidian, I'd demand a AAA budget in exchange for the implementations of Romances. Say... $50M-100M.

[dorkboy]

"In an ideal world, I'd snap my fingers, and romance .."

Not if I snap them first, Lephys.. 

 

---

 

There are aspects of the fantasy genre that I find uniquely appealing for their own sake. Romance just isn't one of them. Therefore the only good mance, is a necromance. 

[Lephys]

I just think it's uniquely appealing from a roleplaying standpoint. You are given a character whose decisions you have pretty much full control over. I just think it's dumb to separate it completely out of the continuity of the narrative. I find romance not-for-its-own-sake appealing.

 

A noble's manse is another potentially good manse, methinks.

[Darkpriest]

After a long deliberate thinking process i came to a conclusion that I have another version of a romance, that I could possibly dig, in some future installment of the series....

 

there are certain NPCs that have distinct preferences, for example a human female that can get attracted to a human men only; an orlan gay, digging dwarves and orlans; etc. so if your character does not meet the preferences of a romancable NPC you land in "a friend zone" or in a "sorry, but you stink and leave me be" zone. So even if you try clicking the correct "romance me" dialog options, and yet your decisions and your gender and race do not fit the preferences of the NPC you get nothing. It could also be possible that for example some character options would be out of luck for romance (for example: death godlike, Amu's of any type, etc.)... that could be one of ways making NPCs more believable, and could also lead to some better dialog writing... but if I will ever hear of an idea that my PC should romance everything with ease, then I will tell them to go play  some dating simulator or sims... RPG with believable NPCs and good writing is apparently not for them....

 

As it is now, if I can pick between romances or use dialog lines and quest space for something else, I pick the latter.

[BruceVC]

Wow...I didn't realize there were many wise crack know it alls here on the forums.

 

No doubt there is group of active and vociferous people on these  forums who are utterly opposed to Romance on any level, buts that fine. Don't let them dishearten you. We still discuss and make suggestions for Romance in PoE 2

 

But we also have to realistic, you can't ask for Romance at the expense of the story. In other words a RPG with Romance but a bad story wouldn't be worth playing because  Romance is just part of the party interaction and the actual story is something which defines your whole RPG experience

Edited August 11, 2014 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

 

if your fans wants you to add romance to the game, tell what it will cost and we will most likely give it to u.

This is actually a terrific idea. If I was Obsidian, I'd demand a AAA budget in exchange for the implementations of Romances. Say... $50M-100M.

 

 

Wow that's a steep goal, how much would you pledge towards a Romance objective Stun?

[PrimeJunta]

Why d'you think the antimancers should pledge anything?

 

There are already AAA games with romance. Can't you guys let us have at least our little niche games without insisting that they're just like the AAA titles? Please?

[hoku85]

 

Wow...I didn't realize there were many wise crack know it alls here on the forums.

 

No doubt there is group of active and vociferous people on these  forums who are utterly opposed to Romance on any level, buts that fine. Don't let them dishearten you. We still discuss and make suggestions for Romance in PoE 2

 

But we also have to realistic, you can't ask for Romance at the expense of the story. In other words a RPG with Romance but a bad story wouldn't be worth playing because  Romance is just part of the party interaction and the actual story is something which defines your whole RPG experience

 

Most of the replies doesnt seem to understand me and prolly most of the people who wants a romance section in the game.

 

First of all..we dont ask for a destined lovestory. Its an rpg , you are supposed to follow your own path. We simple like the idea that, the main character can choose, if he start to like someone. to approach dat woman. Wether its a one night stand or just a pure fail of pickup artisting, would been determined of many factors. ITS AN RPG, anything should be possible or impossible. The more dice u add into the game, the more realistic rpg u will get. 

 

Im wondering though? will the main character be able to save the girl from pirates and **** her as a reward? or after a few beers in the bar go away with the girl bartender? Will there be brothels? and will everything be weird in that section like in bg2 ? xD, where the girls only say some robot lines and do nothing (they even say the same sentence all of em xD ). And is this a weird request? I just find it more realistic that humanoids once in a while do it.  And i dont see how that would ruin any impact to the game. Its just something very natural that would explain where everyone comes from.

 

another thing im wondering is why people dat dissapears cant be found laterwards anywhere... all characters that dissapear should randomly appear in locations.. because they LIVE IN THIS WORLD, so they shouldnt just dissapear. that is something i just dont understand with the previous games..why do everyone have to dissapear. if they aint dead. they are somewhere. and should be somewhere.

Edited August 11, 2014 by hoku85

[Chairchucker]

Most of the replies doesnt seem to understand me and prolly most of the people who wants a romance section in the game.

 

First of all..we dont ask for a destined lovestory. Its an rpg , you are supposed to follow your own path. We simple like the idea that, the main character can choose, if he start to like someone. to approach dat woman. Wether its a one night stand or just a pure fail of pickup artisting, would been determined of many factors. ITS AN RPG, anything should be possible or impossible. The more dice u add into the game, the more realistic rpg u will get.

It's important that we make realistic goals. If one makes 'anything possible', the choices are either having the 'anything' be shallow and meaningless (an outcome that J.E. Sawyer has specifically mentioned as being unacceptable) or requiring a lot more resources. I don't think you'll find many people disagreeing with the ideal of a game where you have an absurd amount of roleplaying options, it's just that logistically that would be a nightmare.

[hoku85]

i see your point... chairchucker. and your right. i just... want something romantic in the game... and ofcourse the story of a game have to be some how destined with maybe 2 paths. just.. want some romance into the game. its the reason why bg2 was better than bg1 and icewind dale and planescape. im absolutely sure the game will be awsome without it but.. awsomeness<--> perfection 

[BruceVC]

Why d'you think the antimancers should pledge anything?

 

There are already AAA games with romance. Can't you guys let us have at least our little niche games without insisting that they're just like the AAA titles? Please?

 

My point was more to highlight the fact that Stun was being sarcastic and in fact obviously doesn't think its a good idea.

 

And of course niche games don't have to have Romance, but as we have discussed numerous times the majority of people want some form of Romance. They just don't want Bioware Romance. Even on this thread there are many people who say "we want Romance but only if its realistic"

 

Maybe its time for another poll? Because if the vast majority of people have a view that says " we don't want Romance in any form or shape "( like Stun and Baba) I'll accept that and won't push for it in PoE 2. But I am confident this won't be outcome based on past polls

[BruceVC]

i see your point... chairchucker. and your right. i just... want something romantic in the game... and ofcourse the story of a game have to be some how destined with maybe 2 paths. just.. want some romance into the game. its the reason why bg2 was better than bg1 and icewind dale and planescape. im absolutely sure the game will be awsome without it but.. awsomeness<--> perfection 

 

I also thought BG2 was the superior game compared to the others in your list. But it wasn't just the Romance that made it that way for me, it was the story and events that unfolded

 

But can I make a suggestion, its good to see someone who wants Romance but go to the beginning of this thread and read all the suggestions around Romance implementations. I know this thread is long but there are some really good ideas about the way forward around Romance in RPG. Then you will understand why people have an issue with "Bioware romance "

[Chairchucker]

As someone previously mentioned, if it's a simple choice between 'have romances' and 'not have romances' without resources being an issue, sure, I'll vote for Obsidian to wave their magic wand and implement it.

 

But resources are an issue. They are an issue for anything that can be implemented, and Obsidian have to weigh up all the different goals and the resources they'll take. I'm sure there are plenty of things that would take the same or less resources than romances that I'd ask the magic wand to give me first.

 

Like more in depth non-romantic party interaction, for example.

[BruceVC]

 

Like more in depth non-romantic party interaction, for example.

 

If that was a valid reason to not include Romance we would never see Romance in any RPG , because the definition of  "in-depth " is very subjective. So imagine if Obsidians criteria around whether they should include Romance was based on non-Romance interaction being "in-depth"...who would decide this? Obsidian themselves? The fans? Maybe the funders of PoE but the point being you would never get consensus

 

So realistically Obsidian needs to decide and if that's the case then it makes no difference if  we feel that we should have more in-depth normal party interaction before Romance because Romance will just be a feature they include as normal party relationships, albeit optional

[Bos_hybrid]

 

 

Like more in depth non-romantic party interaction, for example.

 

If that was a valid reason to not include Romance we would never see Romance in any RPG , because the definition of  "in-depth " is very subjective. So imagine if Obsidians criteria around whether they should include Romance was based on non-Romance interaction being "in-depth"...who would decide this? Obsidian themselves? The fans? Maybe the funders of PoE but the point being you would never get consensus

 

Obsidian should make the decision. I pledged for Obsidian to make a game, not the RPG fan community/backers.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Bos_hybrid

[Chairchucker]

If that was a valid reason to not include Romance we would never see Romance in any RPG , because the definition of  "in-depth " is very subjective. So imagine if Obsidians criteria around whether they should include Romance was based on non-Romance interaction being "in-depth"...who would decide this? Obsidian themselves? The fans? Maybe the funders of PoE but the point being you would never get consensus

 

So realistically Obsidian needs to decide and if that's the case then it makes no difference if  we feel that we should have more in-depth normal party interaction before Romance because Romance will just be a feature they include as normal party relationships, albeit optional

That's cool and all, but why have you chosen to ignore the actual point of my post and respond only to the throwaway example? The point of that post was about opportunity cost and limited resources and Obsidian having to make choices (that's my answer BTW. Obsidian should ultimately wield an iron fist and make all the choices) about where to spend their available resources, and the problem with a poll is that some people will, as demonstrated within this topic, answer the poll question as if resources are no issue, whereas some will assume that if resources are diverted to romances, they'd have to cut out an entire race or something.

 

Like elves.

 

On second thoughts, I'm OK with this trade off.

[Stun]

First of all..we dont ask for a destined lovestory. Its an rpg , you are supposed to follow your own path. We simple like the idea that, the main character can choose, if he start to like someone. to approach dat woman. Wether its a one night stand or just a pure fail of pickup artisting, would been determined of many factors. ITS AN RPG, anything should be possible or impossible. The more dice u add into the game, the more realistic rpg u will get. 

 

Im wondering though? will the main character be able to save the girl from pirates and **** her as a reward? or after a few beers in the bar go away with the girl bartender? Will there be brothels? and will everything be weird in that section like in bg2 ? xD, where the girls only say some robot lines and do nothing (they even say the same sentence all of em xD ). And is this a weird request? I just find it more realistic that humanoids once in a while do it.  And i dont see how that would ruin any impact to the game. Its just something very natural that would explain where everyone comes from.

And... the realism argument returns to the discussion....again.

 

Ok, should the player character be allowed to rape an NPC who spurns his/her advances? Should an NPC be allowed to Rape the player character? What about sexually transmitted diseases? Should they be implemented? How about enforced moral/ethical codes for paladins, monks and priests? should the game prohibit those classes from Romances? What about the accurate consequences of face/body generation in the character creation screen? If you create an ugly old, wart-faced character, should the game recognize this and reduce/eliminate the player's chances to successfully romance any NPCs?

 

What about pregnancy and pregnant female player characters resulting from having sex with your LI? Should such characters suffer dexterity/constitution penalties starting at the second trimester and increasing to the point where they can no longer engage in combat until a few weeks after they give birth? And what if they do give birth? Will the game force maternity leave on players who are playing female characters in order to stay at camp/home to nurse their kid? And what happens if this maternity leave coincides with the end game? Will Birthing mothers be unable to be present for the final boss fight?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Stun

[dorkboy]

A birth and a boss fight?

Double trouble..

 

---

 

Cutting elves or other decidedly fantasy content in favour of romances?

If anything there should be more elves, and more elven roleplaying options. Maybe two separate story paths; one for elves, and one for all the lesser races. 

And of course a path specifically tailored to a necromancer playthrough. And a bandit/brigand one. Oh, and let's not forget a robust set of roleplaying options - both mechanically and in conversations - for characters with rampant arachnophobia. 

*sigh*

[Gromnir]

am thinking our neever suggestion deserves serious consideration.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66619-obsidian-pleasereconsider-adding-romance/?p=1475392

 

thanks to leferd input, neever would address four frequent fan requests. am understanding game is largely content locked, but we expect a neever encounter would be taking far less effort than much o' the beta work will.... give some o' the writers and an artist useful work to do.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Like more in depth non-romantic party interaction, for example.

 

If that was a valid reason to not include Romance we would never see Romance in any RPG , because the definition of  "in-depth " is very subjective. So imagine if Obsidians criteria around whether they should include Romance was based on non-Romance interaction being "in-depth"...who would decide this? Obsidian themselves? The fans? Maybe the funders of PoE but the point being you would never get consensus

 

Obsidian should make the decision. I pledged for Obsidian to make a game, not the RPG fan community/backers.

 

I agree, that is what makes the most sense. Of course they take fan feedback into consideration but they need to be the ultimate decision makers on what to include

 

 

If that was a valid reason to not include Romance we would never see Romance in any RPG , because the definition of  "in-depth " is very subjective. So imagine if Obsidians criteria around whether they should include Romance was based on non-Romance interaction being "in-depth"...who would decide this? Obsidian themselves? The fans? Maybe the funders of PoE but the point being you would never get consensus

 

So realistically Obsidian needs to decide and if that's the case then it makes no difference if  we feel that we should have more in-depth normal party interaction before Romance because Romance will just be a feature they include as normal party relationships, albeit optional

That's cool and all, but why have you chosen to ignore the actual point of my post and respond only to the throwaway example? The point of that post was about opportunity cost and limited resources and Obsidian having to make choices (that's my answer BTW. Obsidian should ultimately wield an iron fist and make all the choices) about where to spend their available resources, and the problem with a poll is that some people will, as demonstrated within this topic, answer the poll question as if resources are no issue, whereas some will assume that if resources are diverted to romances, they'd have to cut out an entire race or something.

 

Like elves.

 

On second thoughts, I'm OK with this trade off.

 

 

I apologize, the reason I ignored your other points is the "resources" comes up all the time. My view on this is its a red herring around why we can't implement Romance. What I mean by that is  almost all of us have no idea what is the financial impact or timeline logistics to implement something like Romance, in fact we also don't know this about any feature really, and that's understandable because unless you have designed a game like BG2 or are experienced modder how would you know ?

 

I believe and understand Obsidians reasons for not implementing Romance. But end of the day I prefer to dwell in world of facts and statistics so if you say "Romance is a resource drain that could be used for other things " my next question would be something similar to " so give me a detailed breakdown of what is the cost of resource x or resource y  and the timelines to implement it "....and I know you can't possibly have this information. Which was why I ignored those points from you earlier

Edited August 11, 2014 by BruceVC