So DA:I will have stronghold and crafting too

[Karranthain]

That reminds me of Fallout 3 supposedly having 200 endings. Heh.

[Sonntam]

 

 

As for the topic.... there is plenty of room for both games to have crafting and strongholds and both games to still be good.  They aren't competing with each other to begin with and I think people need to understand and be honest about that.  The hardcore RPG fan is also probably going to buy both regardless of which one they think is "better" over all.  Don't forget the wolf in the room either... Witcher 3 which has no stronghold but will be a serious contender for RPG of the year.

 

 

Eh, I would hope that the "hardcore RPG fan" wouldn't want to be cought dead with a copy of DA:I.

Each time I stumble on news of the game it gets more embarrassing. So, yeah I expect it to sell reasonably well, afterall Bioware has gained a certain "following" the past years, but surely not because of its high RPG exellency.

 

 

You speak as if there are like ten RPGs coming out each year and one can cherry pick the best out of them.

 

Once you are done playing RPGs from the old days, there is very little you can play. And Bioware is one of the few companies that makes anything resembling RPGs from the old days.

 

I personally heavily dislike Bioware and won't be getting DA:I, but God knows that I bought and played RPGs that are several times more awful than anything Bioware has ever done and enjoyed it, simply because I was so thirsty for RPGs with roleplaying potential.

[Messier-31]

 DA:I will have stronghold and crafting too

 

I couldn't care less.

[RocketChaser]

I'm a massive fan of RPGS, I owned all the Black Isle classics, loved IWD and BG titles, backed Pillars and can't wait for it.

 

But I'll still probably buy DAI once it drops a bit on Steam, presuming it isn't utterly panned by critics before then (I didn't bother with DA2 because it was described as a hugely linear flop compared to the first, which I enjoyed.)

 

I don't get the obsession with comparing and competing everything, I don't get the game snobbery and I don't get the mud slinging. They're two very different titles and I'd argue they're - in gameplay terms - completely different genres. You may as well compare Call of Duty to Age of Empires because they're both about war.

 

I appreciate this is an internet forum largely populated by roleplay sorts, so it's compulsory to argue about everything (seriously - the romance thread is an embarrassment to us collectively as a community) but come on, a hardcore RPG fan should be ashamed of owning a major release because, why, it's a bit TOO mainstream? Be less hipster.

Edited July 29, 2014 by RocketChaser

[Archaven]

@RocketChaser

 

In my opinion the original Dragon Age Origins were meant to be the successor to Baldur's Gate. In DA2 and DAI, it's clearly it has been casualized to appeal to the masses. I personally would get DAI too since it seems the tactical camera is back, and they mentioned close 50-100 hours content. Not to mention the sheer beauty of the world on FrostBite3 engine. Any how, i'm wondering why DAI gets mentioned here on PoE? Wasn't that off-topic? Anyway i think PoE cannot compare directly to DAI as PoE isn't AAA.

 

I think the real contender for PoE is Divinity Original Sins for me (my opinion). I'm having a blast playing DOS at the moment and wasn't really impressed with the latest impression on PoE video.

[talharbash]

I don't get the obsession with comparing and competing everything, I don't get the game snobbery and I don't get the mud slinging. They're two very different titles and I'd argue they're - in gameplay terms - completely different genres. You may as well compare Call of Duty to Age of Empires because they're both about war.

 

They're not two genres. They're both CRPGs. I think for a long time Bioware was pretty much the only game in town and they took things in a direction that a lot of their older fans did not like. This is why you're seeing a comparison now.

 

 

I appreciate this is an internet forum largely populated by roleplay sorts, so it's compulsory to argue about everything (seriously - the romance thread is an embarrassment to us collectively as a community) but come on, a hardcore RPG fan should be ashamed of owning a major release because, why, it's a bit TOO mainstream? Be less hipster.

 

I actually don't think that DA:I is "mainstream" at all. I think it's a very stark reminder of where this genre ended up going.

[PrimeJunta]

FWIW I would love a good AAA RPG. It wouldn't even have to have particularly hardcore mechanics. Give me Mass Effect 2 without the cringeworthy writing and with different planets that actually look different -- like, you know, not having the same font for shopfronts all across the galaxy and her exotically alien races -- and I'd be happy as a clam. But they are few and far between, since neither BioWare nor Bethsoft -- the two main purveyors -- can into settings or writing.

 

I have high hopes for The Witcher 3, though.

[Stun]

Anyway i think PoE cannot compare directly to DAI as PoE isn't AAA.

What does this even mean? Sales? Sure, but only because DA:I will be released on PC and the consoles (all 4 of them), while PoE will only enjoy PC sales.

 

But that's not how any true gamer compares RPGs. And I think we're going to discover, pretty soon, just how much it doesn't matter that one of these RPGs has $100 Million in development funding being thrown at it while the other has less than $5 million. I predict that 6 months from now, we're going to look at both games and realize that the 'AAA title' doesn't offer as much of the gameplay and story depth, or detail, or even the sheer role playing and party based richness that the low budget title offers. But...it'll be shiner and more Hollywoodesque. But again, that's not how I measure RPG quality.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Stun

[Nonek]

There's nothing wrong with healthy criticism and comparison in my opinion, only a fool has no opinion on matters which concern him. Apathy is death. Personally I would say that discerning players need to exercise more well reasoned criticism, more restraint in their spending and demand more from games than what we are seeing peddled at the moment.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Nonek

[Amentep]

I saw the DA:I preview video and they had a Qunari Mage as the main character.

 

Yeah that makes sense... I mean the Qunari keep being reimagined in practically every game in the series. It gets to the point where they just jumped the shark too many times and threw in whatever their fans asked for without keeping the integrity of the world.

 

And a mage leading the inquisition? Hilarious. Reminds me of DA2 where you can play a mage and side with the templars and no one notices you're casting fireballs left and right.

 

Strongholds or not, the DA series needs to be rebooted or shelved.

 

 

The "Qunari" inquisitor isn't culturally a Qunari.  Technically the Qunari would call her - as I understand it - a Valshoth, someone who has never heard the Qun (as opposed to a Tal-Vashoth, someone who has abandoned the Qun).  That's the trouble of combining a culture and an ethnicity, though, it lacks clarity.

 

The Inquisition leader is the leader because they're the only person to have survived the initial Fade Breach which has given them special "powers" that can be used to close new Fade breaches, thus they get made the leader regardless of their background.   Since the story is heavily in Orlais, I'm guessing the Inquisitor is put in their position by the Divine herself (thus mooting most Templar protestations).

 

I don't find either scenario to be implausible based on the series so far (and again assuming that ultimately the Inquisitor is given the title by the Chantry itself to face the Fade breeches).

[PrimeJunta]

So, another Chosen One Who Must Save The World thing, then. Meh.

[archangel979]

 

I saw the DA:I preview video and they had a Qunari Mage as the main character.

 

Yeah that makes sense... I mean the Qunari keep being reimagined in practically every game in the series. It gets to the point where they just jumped the shark too many times and threw in whatever their fans asked for without keeping the integrity of the world.

 

And a mage leading the inquisition? Hilarious. Reminds me of DA2 where you can play a mage and side with the templars and no one notices you're casting fireballs left and right.

 

Strongholds or not, the DA series needs to be rebooted or shelved.

 

 

The "Qunari" inquisitor isn't culturally a Qunari.  Technically the Qunari would call her - as I understand it - a Valshoth, someone who has never heard the Qun (as opposed to a Tal-Vashoth, someone who has abandoned the Qun).  That's the trouble of combining a culture and an ethnicity, though, it lacks clarity.

 

The Inquisition leader is the leader because they're the only person to have survived the initial Fade Breach which has given them special "powers" that can be used to close new Fade breaches, thus they get made the leader regardless of their background.   Since the story is heavily in Orlais, I'm guessing the Inquisitor is put in their position by the Divine herself (thus mooting most Templar protestations).

 

I don't find either scenario to be implausible based on the series so far (and again assuming that ultimately the Inquisitor is given the title by the Chantry itself to face the Fade breeches).

 

Ah.. another chosen one/unique storyline... I kind of had enough of these. Wherever you turn it is one of these again. PoE will have it as well. Wasteland 2 is I guess only one without it and in the past ToEE and NWN2 SoZ were without it and IWD/2 if we go way back. 

Edited July 29, 2014 by archangel979

[PrimeJunta]

@archangel979 I'm not sure P:E will have a Chosen One storyline. They've hinted that the motivation is more personal, and it won't involve saving the world from an ancient evil.

[Amentep]

So, another Chosen One Who Must Save The World thing, then. Meh.

 

That's what it seems from what I've read, yeah.

 

 

Ah.. another chosen one/unique storyline... I kind of had enough of these. Wherever you turn it is one of these again. PoE will have it as well. Wasteland 2 is I guess only one without it and in the past ToEE and NWN2 SoZ were without it and IWD/2 if we go way back. 

 

It does get tiresome, but I guess its an easy hook to explain why the PC matters in the story.  And as I recall Bioware hasn't done a RPG yet that wasn't a variation of "The Chosen One" (unless its NWN - I can't actually remember the plot of the OC on that).  BG series, JE, ME series, DA I, DA II were all pretty much annoited PCs.

 

Edit - I've heard what PrimeJunta has said hinted at as well - with much of the story under wraps it'll be hard to say how it'll play out.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Amentep

[archangel979]

@archangel979 I'm not sure P:E will have a Chosen One storyline. They've hinted that the motivation is more personal, and it won't involve saving the world from an ancient evil.

Chosen one does not need to save the world. Kotor 1 and 2 are both chosen one/unique storylines. If I remember correctly they said your character in PoE will have something happen to him (or his soul) which will make him unique and after that he will be motivated to continue the main quest. 

Similar to MotB where your character has its soul being eaten and must do main quest to stop this (and it is also described as one of a kind event).

Edited July 29, 2014 by archangel979

[PrimeJunta]

I don't mean quite what you mean by "Chosen One storyline," I think, @archangel979.

 

Ask yourself, "How would the world have been different if you had failed your quest?" If the answer is something like "It would have been overwhelmed by darkness" then we're probably dealing with a Chosen One storyline. If it's something significantly less dramatic, then probably not, even if the PC was unique in some other way.

 

So, by this test, NWN2 OC and both KOTORs would be Chosen One stories, but PS:T and MotB would not. (Whereas FO:NV wouldn't even be a Unique One story, since you start out as basically an average schlub who gets caught in a bad situation.)

 

I strongly suspect P:E will be more like PS:T or MotB (or, for that matter, the BG's) than NWN2 OC or either of the KOTORs.

[Nonek]

Is NWN2 a chosen one story? As far as I remember the protagonist is simply unlucky when they are wounded by the shard as an infant, nobody chose him, he is simply unfortunate enough to be pursued and possess unwillingly one of the only methods of dealing with a situation that is arising. In fact this seems to be a recurring theme in Obsidian games, the protagonist being an awfully unlucky chap.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Nonek

[archangel979]

I don't mean quite what you mean by "Chosen One storyline," I think, @archangel979.

 

Ask yourself, "How would the world have been different if you had failed your quest?" If the answer is something like "It would have been overwhelmed by darkness" then we're probably dealing with a Chosen One storyline. If it's something significantly less dramatic, then probably not, even if the PC was unique in some other way.

 

So, by this test, NWN2 OC and both KOTORs would be Chosen One stories, but PS:T and MotB would not. (Whereas FO:NV wouldn't even be a Unique One story, since you start out as basically an average schlub who gets caught in a bad situation.)

 

I strongly suspect P:E will be more like PS:T or MotB (or, for that matter, the BG's) than NWN2 OC or either of the KOTORs.

Chosen one is the person that is born or starts the game as the one that whatever is happening, it is about him directly and the ones behind it know and care what happens to him from the start. Example Baldur's Gate 1, MotB.

Unique person story is not directly connected to you but your uniqueness gets you into the middle of it. Example, Kotor 1 and 2 (well Kotor 2 could be also chosen one story if we take into account you are directly being groomed the whole game but that story is kind of messy and unfinished)

 

NWN OC, I don't remember too well if something happens to you directly at start. I don't think so. That story is not Chosen One or Unique. You are not directly connected to main story in any special way except that you have responsibility as a Lord to help the people there. FO:NV I have not played enough to know for sure, but if I got it right your character survives by fluke and is in no way chosen one or unique. Fallout 1 and 2 would be Unique storyline. 

 

EDIT: OK, Nonek just said you get wounded by the Shard while young? I really don't remember that part but if it is true that would make NWN OC the Unique storyline.

Edited July 29, 2014 by archangel979

[talharbash]

 

The "Qunari" inquisitor isn't culturally a Qunari.  Technically the Qunari would call her - as I understand it - a Valshoth, someone who has never heard the Qun (as opposed to a Tal-Vashoth, someone who has abandoned the Qun).  That's the trouble of combining a culture and an ethnicity, though, it lacks clarity.

 

 

 

Every iteration of DA has changes made to the Qunari.

 

 

The Inquisition leader is the leader because they're the only person to have survived the initial Fade Breach which has given them special "powers" that can be used to close new Fade breaches, thus they get made the leader regardless of their background.   Since the story is heavily in Orlais, I'm guessing the Inquisitor is put in their position by the Divine herself (thus mooting most Templar protestations).

 

 

This is more difficult for me to accept than the Qunari changes. DA:O went to great lengths to show how mages outside of the Circle are considered outcasts and the templars hunt them down. All of this is brought on by the Chantry in DA2. Now the Divine appoints a mage to lead an inquisition?

 

Sorry but if Shepherd from ME made a cameo in DA:I I would not be surprised. There's no integrity left in the story. They should have stuck to the Greywarden/Darkspawn story they had going. It actually got interesting in the final DLC.

[Nonek]

It's written in the beginning of the manual, and why Ammon Jerro failed in his last struggle with the King of Shadows. I always thought that the protagonists second beating silver heart in NWN2 was an ingenious method of tying one into the story, I may shamelessly steal it yet for an rp session.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Nonek

[PrimeJunta]

@archangel979, thank you for the explanation. I use a different definition, but at least now I know what you mean.

[Amentep]

 

The "Qunari" inquisitor isn't culturally a Qunari.  Technically the Qunari would call her - as I understand it - a Valshoth, someone who has never heard the Qun (as opposed to a Tal-Vashoth, someone who has abandoned the Qun).  That's the trouble of combining a culture and an ethnicity, though, it lacks clarity.

 

 

Every iteration of DA has changes made to the Qunari.

 

I'm not sure how this is a "change". We know that there are Quinari outside of the Qun in DA2. So what, exactly, changed here...?

 

 

The Inquisition leader is the leader because they're the only person to have survived the initial Fade Breach which has given them special "powers" that can be used to close new Fade breaches, thus they get made the leader regardless of their background.   Since the story is heavily in Orlais, I'm guessing the Inquisitor is put in their position by the Divine herself (thus mooting most Templar protestations).

 

This is more difficult for me to accept than the Qunari changes. DA:O went to great lengths to show how mages outside of the Circle are considered outcasts and the templars hunt them down. All of this is brought on by the Chantry in DA2. Now the Divine appoints a mage to lead an inquisition?

 

Sorry but if Shepherd from ME made a cameo in DA:I I would not be surprised. There's no integrity left in the story. They should have stuck to the Greywarden/Darkspawn story they had going. It actually got interesting in the final DLC.

 

The Divine (and again, that's my guess, but given that the Divine's right and left hands are assisting the Inquisitor, I think a reasonable guess) appoints the only person who can close FADE BREACHES that are causing death and destruction across Thedas to head up a group to investigate and stop the source of destruction that threatens the world, as they know it.

 

I'm not sure why The Divine would go "Yes, well I know that you are the only possible hope in saving our world as demons reign down from Fade Breaches and slaughter the hepless, but you know...you were an apostate and I just can't forgive that. Sorry let the world burn, but we're 'tranquiling' your ass."

[talharbash]

Maybe it is explained better at the start of DA:I. I can certainly say that at the end of DA2 the mages and the templars (Chantry) went to war. Mind you this was totally what Bioware did. No one asked them to take the story in that direction.

 

As for the Qunari you're probably right. It still makes me think they jumped the shark on it. They could have kept the Qunari as a non playable race instead of pander this way.

[Amentep]

Well we can hope it's justified. I hope they don't do a DA2 and just not really address the situation (because, frankly, there's no way Hawke-Mage should have not been tossed into the Circle).

 

I'm betting half the appeal of people wanting to play Qunari is solely down to them being unplayable in the first game. Mind you in general, I'm for DA series expanding their racial choices, but they really haven't given a lore way to expand other than Qunari and...intelligent darkspawn I guess.

[WotanAnubis]

Well we can hope it's justified. I hope they don't do a DA2 and just not really address the situation (because, frankly, there's no way Hawke-Mage should have not been tossed into the Circle).

 

I'm betting half the appeal of people wanting to play Qunari is solely down to them being unplayable in the first game. Mind you in general, I'm for DA series expanding their racial choices, but they really haven't given a lore way to expand other than Qunari and...intelligent darkspawn I guess.

 

I think people wanted to play Qunari because they're not Human, Elf or Dwarf. The standard, generic fantasy races are pretty played out by this point, so there will be at least some people who latch on to those races that are new. Variety is the spice of life and all that.