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Update 80: State of the Project - From Alpha to Beta

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I would say that all three (Obsidian, inXile and Larian) have been transparent and pretty good with how they have given information about their projects, but everyone of them have also had their bumps, by doing some minor mistakes in how, how much and what information they have given their backers. And when you read their updates you can see how their cultures differentiate from each other in those companies in what they deem to be important for backers, how their design and production processes go forward and how represent their vision and its evolution for their backers.

 

So I would say that all three have done quite fine job, even though I would have wanted more from everyone of them, but I at least try understand realities and cultures that drive their decisions. And also I remind myself time and time again that these are first projects for these companies that they do using such open door policy and all of them are more experienced to do projects behind closed doors, where someone else decides what information will be released to public. Culture changes and knowledge of what information probably should be released what probably should not and how often it there should and can be updates for backers don't come from thin air but need to be learned by doing, which of course means that things don't always go smoothly.

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Okay, we got it. Darji, you want gameplay videos, and you don't want them in a month or so, you want them now.

Noted. The developers think that would be a bad idea, some people here agree with that. You have your arguments why you think it's a good idea to show videos now, we consider these arguments invalid due to a number of reasons (personally I'm just not interested in half-finished gameplay, I'm much more interested in a polished and awesome trailer).

 

Same goes for exclusive press material. You think it's unfair that we don't get to see it first, and we think it makes sense for Obsidian to do it this way (even if we are just as envious of those pesky journalists as you are).

 

With this conclusion in mind, maybe we can stop the back-and-forth now, since it won't actually change a thing. :)

 

 

That is not quite right. 

 

First of all I want to see progression. And video material shows this the best. Honestly and sadly I do not really care about Obsidians updates because I just do not want to read a lot of stuff. I look at the pictures and designs. And say yeah great. And move on. sometimes with classes explanation for example I will ready the stuff but that's it. With Divinity I actually watch their videos even pause them to see what has changed and how. I get really exciting and my friends too since I link these videos  and tell them about it. Result was 5 people bought the game on steam. Success. Obsidian I can not show the stuff to them because they do not care much right now. With no video.  There is no real excitement here. 

 

As for the press thing: I am not really jealous I am disappointed because I have seen kickstarter projects differently than publisher games and I hoped about more transparency. I also think it is a huge mistake not only to show it to the press since written media on the internet is either dead or dying. And that it was just a really bad marketing move for a game no one besides backers and hardcore fans do not even know exist because there is no material.  no one reads the RPS previews. 

 

But yeah let us conclude with saying. I am disappointed by their handling and that I most likely will not back anything again from obsidian but rather buy it at launch. 

Edited by Darji

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I know this screen And they explained it and apologized for not naming it right right away because people were upset. Again controll your media. be honest and the most honest you can be is during actual progress videos. You can not fake these videos if you you want to try.  And I was talking about the videos not the screens or especially this screen.

You most certainly can fake those vides. Forsaken Fortress did if not exactly that, something dangerously close to it.

 

Specifically, during the Kickstarter and the updates they presented gameplay video showing combat, animations, lighting, base building, and what have you, and ALL of it was fake. As in, not in the final game, and the final game, such as it was, didn't look even close to similar. Making a fake gameplay video with little toons running around in a scene with some FX laid on top but no underlying mechanics, no or extremely limited user controls is MUCH easier than making an actual game that's actually playable, let alone fun.


I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Okay, we got it. Darji, you want gameplay videos, and you don't want them in a month or so, you want them now.

Noted. The developers think that would be a bad idea, some people here agree with that. You have your arguments why you think it's a good idea to show videos now, we consider these arguments invalid due to a number of reasons (personally I'm just not interested in half-finished gameplay, I'm much more interested in a polished and awesome trailer).

 

Same goes for exclusive press material. You think it's unfair that we don't get to see it first, and we think it makes sense for Obsidian to do it this way (even if we are just as envious of those pesky journalists as you are).

 

With this conclusion in mind, maybe we can stop the back-and-forth now, since it won't actually change a thing. :)

 

I'm not a backer and I still think the way Obsidian handled E3 was grossly unfair towards backers. After all, people invested their money (I know by KS rules it's not legally an investment but de-facto it is) in the project. They deserved better. Again, I understand that there's no obligation beyond KS pledge rewards but we're talking about being fair and nice here, aren't we? Well, Obsidian put press above their most loyal fans - by any standard this is neither nice nor fair.

 

Telling people who feel disappointed and betrayed that it's all envy and whining is, let's be honest here, very childish. You know such thing as well-founded discontent actually exists and that's we have here. And, as far as I know, Obsidian simply turned a deaf ear on all complaints.

 

Not cool. That's all I have to say. Not cool.

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You most certainly can fake those vides. Forsaken Fortress did if not exactly that, something dangerously close to it.

 

 

The devs of Forsaken Fortress explained they had all these cool ideas they were trying out and building the tech for. That's what we see in the early videos.

 

Then they put it together into a game and found it would barely run because of all the resources it consumed. By that time it was already too late. They have run out of money and are only working on it part time.

 

A real shame since the concept was pretty good.

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No I want progression. Not on my terms but just show me something.

This kicked me into a bit of a project. Here's close to all concepts, pictures, W.I.P stuff from all of the updates. To get a sense of how it has progressed, and how much media we've been given.

 

Let's go down memory lane in chronological order (except, without the text) :) going to look into doing a slideshow of all of this.

 

Does this warrant its own thread? xD

 

 

- Update 3:

Concept Art #1: Sagani

 

- Update 8:

Concept Art #2: Edair

 

- Update 10:

Concept Art #3: Cadegund

 

- Update 14:

Soundcloud: Music

 

- Update 15:

Concept Art #4: Wallpaper

 

- Update 16:

Concept Art #5: Endless Path (4 Levels)

 

- Update 17:

Concept Art #6: Aloth

 

- Update 20:

First Screenshot

 

- Update 21:

Concept Art #7: Endless Path (6 Levels)

Concept Art #8: Forton

 

- Update 25:

Temple Passes

 

- Update 28:

Concept Art #9: Endless Path (15 Levels)

 

- Update 33:

W.I.P #1: Test Environment

 

- Update 34:

W.I.P #2: House

W.I.P #3: Character Model

W.I.P #4: +3 Medicine Ball Flail

W.I.P #5: Modeling #1

Concept Art #10: Aumaua #1

Concept Art #11: Aumaua #2

W.I.P #6: Level #1

 

- Update 39:

W.I.P #7: Level #2

 

- Update 40:

Concept Art #12: Orlan #1

 

- Update 41:

W.I.P #8: Dwarf

W.I.P #9: Modeling #2

W.I.P #10: Level #3

 

- Update 43:

Concept Art #13: Godlike #1

Concept Art #14: Godlike #2

W.I.P #11: Modeling #3

W.I.P #12: Modeling #4

W.I.P #13: Modeling #5

W.I.P #14: Modeling #6

 

- Update 46:

Concept Art #15: Environment #1

 

- Update 47:

Concept Art #16: Scripted Event #1

Concept Art #17: Cultural #1

Concept Art #18: Scripted Event #2

 

- Update 49:

W.I.P #15: Prototype (VIDEO)

 

- Update 50:

W.I.P #16: Aumaua

 

- Update 51:

Concept Art #19: Environment #2

W.I.P #17: Skuldr

Concept Art #20: Ogre

 

- Update 52:

Concept Art #21: Cultural #2

 

- Update 53:

Concept Art #22: Cean Gúla #1

Concept Art #23: Cean Gúla #2

 

- Update 54:

W.I.P #18: User Interface

Concept Art #24: Xaurip(?)

Concept Art #25: Scripted Event #3

 

- Update 55:

W.I.P #19: Level #3

 

- Update 56:

W.I.P #20: Orlan #2

W.I.P #21: Orlan #3

 

- Update 57:

Concept Art #26: Animat #1

Concept Art #27: Animat #2

 

- Update 61:

W.I.P #22: Level #4

 

- Update 62:

Concept Art #28: Wicht

Concept Art #29: Dialogue Interface

 

- Update 64:

Concept Art #30: Scripted Event #4

Concept Art #31: Dragon

Concept Art #32: Environment

 

- Update 65:

Concept Art #33: Vithrack

W.I.P #23: Wilderness #1

 

- Update 66:

W.I.P #24: Stronghold

 

- Update 67:

Spreadsheet

Paper Design

Blockout

W.I.P #25: House

 

- Update 68:

W.I.P #26: Wilderness #2

W.I.P #27: Wilderness #3

Concept Art #34: Twin Elms

Concept Art #35: Line Work

Concept Art #36: Engwithan Prop

W.I.P #28: Trolls

 

- Update 69:

Teaser Trailer (VIDEO)

 

- Update 70:

Oldsong

Cean Gŵla

Records Screen

God Concepts

 

- Update 71:

Screenshot: Engwithan Ruins

Character: Edér

 

- Update 72:

Race: Death Godlike (VIDEO)

Race: Earth Godlike

Area: Blacksmith

Area: Wizard's Tower

Concept: Cat Form

Model: Cat Form

 

- Update 73:

Area: Heritage Hill

Concept: Skeleton

Concept: Dargul

Concept: Revenant

 

- Update 74:

Portrait: 2 Backers

Area: Backer Inn

Item: Grimoire

Portrait: Druid Backer

Concept: Stag Form

 

- Update 75:

Animation: Creatures (VIDEO)

 

- Update 76:

Dyrford Music (VIDEO)

 

- Update 77:

Armor: Plate

Armor: Scale

Area: Anslog's Compass

Area: Hall of Warriors

Area: Clîaban Rilag Entrance

 

- Update 78:

Portrait: Kana Rua

Spell: Dire Blessing (VIDEO)

Spell: Circle of Protection (VIDEO)

 

 

 

And here we are. I excluded Update #79 which has a lot of content in itself, and I think it'd be stupid to go all the way to Update #80 (Ya know, because this is Update #80 thread).

Edited by Osvir
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man man man... Darji!

 

You sound like some alien from another company who has nothing better to do then to dis obsidian here on and on and you just waited for the right moment to come out of your closet. Seriously what is wrong with you? One of hhe devs came here in the thread, shared his thoughts and you still sit in the bunker firing rockets around like a madchild. Obsidian does what THEY want and what they think they HAVE to do and not what YOU single entity thinks is the right way for everything here!

 

You gotta get on my nerves!

 

Because you dont LEARN and dont ACCEPT a different viewpoint then your own narrow way of thinking! Talking about something is easy but please if you are so wise show me what you have done in the gaming business or whatever and maybe i then be impressed how much knowledge you realy have... otherwise you are just an impatient brat with to much time imo. Yes i sound now more rude then i wanted but i´m feed up with this obsessive critic that is just not justified!

 

and again 80 updates but you still want more and more and more! Go OUT and chill in the sun... it is summer!

 

And where did Obsidian say that they include us backers into their internship way of development huh?

Edited by NWN_babaYaga
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Okay, we got it. Darji, you want gameplay videos, and you don't want them in a month or so, you want them now.
Noted. The developers think that would be a bad idea, some people here agree with that. You have your arguments why you think it's a good idea to show videos now, we consider these arguments invalid due to a number of reasons (personally I'm just not interested in half-finished gameplay, I'm much more interested in a polished and awesome trailer).
 
Same goes for exclusive press material. You think it's unfair that we don't get to see it first, and we think it makes sense for Obsidian to do it this way (even if we are just as envious of those pesky journalists as you are).
 
With this conclusion in mind, maybe we can stop the back-and-forth now, since it won't actually change a thing.  :)

 
I'm not a backer and I still think the way Obsidian handled E3 was grossly unfair towards backers. After all, people invested their money (I know by KS rules it's not legally an investment but de-facto it is) in the project. They deserved better. Again, I understand that there's no obligation beyond KS pledge rewards but we're talking about being fair and nice here, aren't we? Well, Obsidian put press above their most loyal fans - by any standard this is neither nice nor fair.
 
Telling people who feel disappointed and betrayed that it's all envy and whining is, let's be honest here, very childish. You know such thing as well-founded discontent actually exists and that's we have here. And, as far as I know, Obsidian simply turned a deaf ear on all complaints.
 
Not cool. That's all I have to say. Not cool.

 

 
I am a backer.  I'm certainly not blindly supportive of Obsidian since I'm calling for more videos, but I still don't think E3 is unreasonable.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that the vast majority of information available about the game has come from updates or the forums.  Press articles rarely include anything the backers don't know already.  Obsidian has certainly not been deficient in talking about the game or their progress.  The other is that Project Eternity is not their only game, and may not even be their largest game right now.  They are a large studio and have other games that need press.

 

I'll almost certainly back any other kickstarter they make, and I don't think E3 is worthy of serious consideration.

 

My own current problems and speculation follow below, but it's somewhat OT so it's spoilered.

 

 
The problem I have is the huge disparity they have between engaging the backers with text and engaging the backers with media.  On the forums they are responsive and engage in considerable dialogue, and often give the current state of the project.  When it comes time to showing it, everything must be controlled or tightly polished.  It's either static prerenders or concept art with very few exceptions.  
 
I can guess why this is, but because they haven't said something like the following explicitly their positions look bizarre or intransigent.  Many people will buy this game after it's released because it will look prettier than every game out there at release and unfinished art from six months before release might muddy that.  Why should it matter how many people buy the game before release; the game has already been funded and presumably understanding backers will fund the next one on kickstarter?  The obvious answer is because the kickstarter campaign didn't actually fund the full cost of the game; Obsidian has had to make some deals like the Paradox deal, the tank MMO, removing the possibility of new wilderness areas, all to keep development running while funds dwindle (even with the several $100k infusion from the video).  Also, this game is getting more coverage than any other Obsidian game, and they want to fix their reputation and they spent a considerable just getting funding for this game.  So again, everything has to be perfect.  The company is basically mortgaging its future to make this game, both financially and in reputation of fans, but they don't say any of this because they don't want to appear weak and invite Doublefine-style criticism.
 
I understand the motives, but I think they are misguided in their assumption that it's necessary to hide all this from the backers.  From a cursory glance it looks like backers should be the only important customers, and they should be shown as much as possible, and they don't want to disabuse backers who haven't been paying attention of their current notions, so they just don't show anything at all.  That way there can be no criticism, because criticism could hurt hype, which could hurt sales, and then Obsidian could be sunk as a company.

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"That is what Kickstarter is about for most people."

 

Kickstarter is about funding products that you want to see come into existence. That's it. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Kickstarter is not going to replace the publisher system. It will never do that, and should never do that. 

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 The obvious answer is because the kickstarter campaign didn't actually fund the full cost of the game; Obsidian has had to make some deals like the Paradox deal, the tank MMO, removing the possibility of new wilderness areas, all to keep development running while funds dwindle (even with the several $100k infusion from the video).  Also, this game is getting more coverage than any other Obsidian game, and they want to fix their reputation and they spent a considerable just getting funding for this game.  So again, everything has to be perfect.  The company is basically mortgaging its future to make this game, both financially and in reputation of fans, but they don't say any of this because they don't want to appear weak and invite Doublefine-style criticism.

 

Oh for god's sake...this is why you shouldn't speculate.

 

PoE is not putting Obsidian out of business. They've been around for awhile. They know how to stick to a budget.

 

Why do you think the Paradox deal is an indication of financial problems? They did that deal because marketing/distribution are an annoying pain in the butt. It makes perfect sense to bring a company with expertise in such things.

 

A game studio of Obsidian's size needs several games in the pipeline simultaneously to stay in business. South Park, PoE, Armored Warfare, Skyforge, etc. That's just a dev studio doing what a dev studio does. If Feargus Urquhart is doing his job, he spends most of his day on the phone or in meetings trying to drum up new business.

 

Of course, they want PoE's presentation to be perfect because they want to sell as many copies as possible. That means expanding the audience beyond the original backers. Nothing mysterious or nefarious about it, just good business.

Edited by Flow
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Okay, we got it. Darji, you want gameplay videos, and you don't want them in a month or so, you want them now.

Noted. The developers think that would be a bad idea, some people here agree with that. You have your arguments why you think it's a good idea to show videos now, we consider these arguments invalid due to a number of reasons (personally I'm just not interested in half-finished gameplay, I'm much more interested in a polished and awesome trailer).

 

Same goes for exclusive press material. You think it's unfair that we don't get to see it first, and we think it makes sense for Obsidian to do it this way (even if we are just as envious of those pesky journalists as you are).

 

With this conclusion in mind, maybe we can stop the back-and-forth now, since it won't actually change a thing. :)

 

I'm not a backer and I still think the way Obsidian handled E3 was grossly unfair towards backers. After all, people invested their money (I know by KS rules it's not legally an investment but de-facto it is)

It's de facto legally an investment when it is an investment.

 

 

 

 The obvious answer is because the kickstarter campaign didn't actually fund the full cost of the game; Obsidian has had to make some deals like the Paradox deal, the tank MMO, removing the possibility of new wilderness areas, all to keep development running while funds dwindle (even with the several $100k infusion from the video).  Also, this game is getting more coverage than any other Obsidian game, and they want to fix their reputation and they spent a considerable just getting funding for this game.  So again, everything has to be perfect.  The company is basically mortgaging its future to make this game, both financially and in reputation of fans, but they don't say any of this because they don't want to appear weak and invite Doublefine-style criticism.

 

Oh for god's sake...this is why you shouldn't speculate.

 

PoE is not putting Obsidian out of business. They've been around for awhile. They know how to stick to a budget.

 

Why do you think the Paradox deal is an indication of financial problems? They did that deal because marketing/distribution are an annoying pain in the butt. It makes perfect sense to bring a company with expertise in such things.

 

A game studio of Obsidian's size needs several games in the pipeline simultaneously to stay in business. South Park, PoE, Armored Warfare, Skyforge, etc. That's just a dev studio doing what a dev studio does. If Feargus Urquhart is doing his job, he spends most of his day on the phone or in meetings trying to drum up new business.

 

Of course, they want PoE's presentation to be perfect because they want to sell as many copies as possible. That means expanding the audience beyond the original backers. Nothing mysterious or nefarious about it, just good business.

 

To assume Obsidian just whipped up a game out of thin air is ridiculous. 

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And here is the thing that Brandon Adler has been saying. In order to do a video like that it takes a lot of people off working on the actual production schedule.

 

They want to show some off the crit path areas, and they aren't scheduled to work on those until their internal beta. It would save more time doing the video when they start doing that, because the polish required coincides with the development goals of that milestone. It's also close to the backer beta, so they only have to make one video to go along with it.

 

Aye! This was something pointed out in some developer interview (can't remember which one) as one of the sort of unintended detriments of making a game for a publisher (not just HAVING a publisher, but the traditional publisher-funded game scheme). I mean, either way, you've got milestones in your timeline, to keep to a schedule. But, often, apparently, the publisher treats the whole thing in a much more business-y manner, and they want you to show them pretty, polished demos of everything you're doing. So, often, the team ends up having to spend hours and hours putting together some shnazzy-looking demo, polishing characters and creatures and mechanics that sometimes end up not even being in the final game. Milestone after milestone. You have to do a bunch of pre-emptive polishing that doesn't necessarily end up coinciding with the things that actually needed polish.

 

It's kind of a "go ahead and paint this whole room red so we can see what it looks like, even though we'll probably change the color and you could've just painted a little swatch."


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I watched video and there was one journalist said that he don't know what information he should write about KS games, as they developers tell all that information about their games directly to people that are interested about them than what press typically would cover. He also mentioned that he is glad that it isn't his job to write about KS games, which means that he isn't very familiar with covering KS games. Second one that spoke about KS games, actually said that he has covered them in E3, was much more interested about them, but also mentioned it is difficult to find what to cover about them as most of people that read/watch/listen your coverage have followed development of those games from beginning and therefore it can be challenging to find something that interest them but also cover game to those that haven't heard from it before. Two other panelist in video didn't tell their opinion about KS games at all.

 

Most of game publication gave some kind coverage for most of those KS games that were in E3, but I haven't seen any of them getting in top/most read articles of day lists of said publications.

 

Again. Watch the video. Clearly you're not watching it all. All three don't know who to write about them, they said it was weird, they've never heard of the games, and one was glad he didn't cover any and all are in agreement. If they are game journalists and don't know how to write about a game because it's a 'Kickstarter' game? That shouldn't matter. The fact is it's still a GAME. They also gave lame excuses like 'the fans are in on it' so I don't know what to write. Excuse me? The fans were following games like Diablo 3 and yet they could write about that game. But they find it hard to write about Kickstarter games because the fans are now in on it? It's those sort of lame excuses that try and justify their incompetence. Also, only one didn't tell about their opinion probably because they had now idea how to, not two people. But the one who didn't say anything (the girl) was nodding her approval and agreement with the other three. She didn't have to say anything, her body language gave her away. You really need to watch and let it sink in.

 

You're just lapping up what they say and making excuses for their incompetence. There's no reason why other sites can write about Kickstarter games which we've all seen and these people in the video can't. Keep making excuses for them Elerond.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist II
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I watched video and there was one journalist said that he don't know what information he should write about KS games, as they developers tell all that information about their games directly to people that are interested about them than what press typically would cover. He also mentioned that he is glad that it isn't his job to write about KS games, which means that he isn't very familiar with covering KS games. Second one that spoke about KS games, actually said that he has covered them in E3, was much more interested about them, but also mentioned it is difficult to find what to cover about them as most of people that read/watch/listen your coverage have followed development of those games from beginning and therefore it can be challenging to find something that interest them but also cover game to those that haven't heard from it before. Two other panelist in video didn't tell their opinion about KS games at all.

 

Most of game publication gave some kind coverage for most of those KS games that were in E3, but I haven't seen any of them getting in top/most read articles of day lists of said publications.

 

Again. Watch the video. Clearly you're not watching it all. All three don't know who to write about them, they said it was weird, they've never heard of the games, and one was glad he didn't cover any and all are in agreement. If they are game journalists and don't know how to write about a game because it's a 'Kickstarter' game? That shouldn't matter. The fact is it's still a GAME. They also gave lame excuses like 'the fans are in on it' so I don't know what to write. Excuse me? The fans were following games like Diablo 3 and yet they could write about that game. But they find it hard to write about Kickstarter games because the fans are now in on it? It's those sort of lame excuses that try and justify their incompetence. Also, only one didn't tell about their opinion probably because they had now idea how to, not two people. You really need to watch and let it sink in.

 

You're just lapping up what they say and making excuses for their incompetence. There's no reason why other sites can write about Kickstarter games which we've all seen and these people in the video can't. Keep making excuses for them Elerond.

 

Yeah they are basically saying that they do not care about these games because they can not write anything new about it and no one really cares because these updates have mostly more information on these games  than their previews.  They just can not sell it. 

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Telling people who feel disappointed and betrayed that it's all envy and whining is, let's be honest here, very childish. You know such thing as well-founded discontent actually exists and that's we have here. And, as far as I know, Obsidian simply turned a deaf ear on all complaints.

 

Huh? I actually made sure to say that I am just as jealous as he is. I long to see the E3 demo as well, I think it's natural for a fan to feel that way. You're calling me childish for that?

 

 

As for your opinion, my post still applies. Yes, you think that your discontent is warranted. My point was that lots of people don't think of it this way and that this discussion is leading nowhere. Your main argument is "backers deserve more than that", and I don't agree with it because I understand Obsidian's reasoning behind it.

 

In any case, I just don't feel like the backers have gotten "less" than the press from Obsidian. They gave us in-depth looks at various stages of the production, about all that's going on behind the curtains and about the systems they're implementing, the classes, the world... all that stuff that isn't suited for the mainstream gaming press. They can't write articles about these updates.

We're the ones that are well-informed about the project, we're the ones that get to give feedback on certain design decisions. And I don't see how we're somehow entitled to see everything when we already get to see all that.

 

Also, we will get to see flashy cool gameplay footage soon. And we'll get even more than the press: we'll get a true oldschool RPG like we've wanted for so long now. My gratitude for that is bigger than my impatience to see some video that Obsidian thinks we shouldn't see because it would spoil the fun of experiencing it in the game for the first time.

 

But yeah. That's my opinion, some people view it differently. Like I said, my point was that it's useless to keep discussing this.

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Yeah they are basically saying that they do not care about these games because they can not write anything new about it and no one really cares because these updates have mostly more information on these games  than their previews.  They just can not sell it. 

 

Firstly, you're right in that they don't care about these games but not because they can't write anything new. And it's not about writing new stuff. That's just a lame excuse they're using. Also, they are not writing the articles for the fans of the game when they write articles for games in general. They are writing articles about a game for their readers regardless if they are fans of the game or not. There's a difference. And it's marketing to those who haven't heard about the game or followed the development. The Red Bull write up is a good example. Nothing really new to the fans, but a well written and good article to their readers. The Red Bull writers can do it, so why can't the guys in the video do it as well? Because they're clueless.

 

So it's not so much important about writing something new. You just have to write about it and get the word out there. Again, marketing.

 

Secondly, there are people on this forum who all agreed that it was a good move for Obsidian to go to E3 with PoE to promote the game to more players and get that promotion and ultimately sales. But now it's all too hard for some reporters because it's a 'Kickstarter Game'. And then you have some people on this forum agreeing with the reporters. WTF??

 

A reporter can't do their job because it's a 'Kickstarter game' because the fans know all about it, but can do their job when it's a AAA game even though the fans of that AAA game have been following the development of that AAA game. That doesn't make any sense at all. You have some reporters picking and choosing which games they want to review and when it comes to Kickstarter games, they give lame excuses why they can't do it. And some people on this forum accept their lame arse excuses.

 

Poor incompetent journalism at it's finest.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist II
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A reporter can't do their job because it's a 'Kickstarter game' because the fans know all about it, but can do their job when it's a AAA game even though the fans of that AAA game have been following the development of that AAA game. That doesn't make any sense at all. You have some reporters picking and choosing which games they want to review and when it comes to Kickstarter games, they give lame excuses why they can't do it. And some people on this forum accept their lame arse excuses.

To be fair, Hiro, you're ignoring the fact that AAA titles often keep stuff WAY more under wraps than Kickstarter titles. It's not that all the readers of that magazine have backed the game, so they can't tell anyone "new" about that game's info. It's that the development team is posting updates on a weekly basis about pretty much everything they're doing.

 

With the newest iteration of Call of Duty, do you just go to some website and read about what the devs have been working on for the past week or so? No, you read preview articles about it... written by journalists... you know, the only people the publisher/developers will share info with?

 

So, there's that. I'm not saying "and therefore ALL gaming journalists are awesome and know how to write articles and don't use things as lame excuses." But, it's not as if they have absolutely no reason at all for writing about Kickstarted titles to be any different from writing about AAA titles, as you seem to be suggesting with the whole "all those reasons aren't reasons at all and are just lame excuses."

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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To be fair, Hiro, you're ignoring the fact that AAA titles often keep stuff WAY more under wraps than Kickstarter titles. It's not that all the readers of that magazine have backed the game, so they can't tell anyone "new" about that game's info. It's that the development team is posting updates on a weekly basis about pretty much everything they're doing.

 

To be fair? So you're making excuses for them as well. You're missing the fact that Obsidian kept stuff under wraps and behind closed doors so the journalists would have something new to write about. And this is new stuff that the backers don't know about. And it is lame excuses when you have journalists from various websites who can write about Kickstarter games and PoE, eg. Red Bull which surprised a few people on this forum including myself and yet these journalists in the video says it's all too hard.

 

Why is it that a lot of journalists can do it which we've seen over the last 2 years and then you have some video where these journalists can't, find it 'weird' and too hard?

 

And you missed the fact it's not about 'new', it's about reporting the game. So if you don't have something new, you can't report the game? LMAO. What a lame arse excuse. Reporting the game in the mainstream gaming media is what's it's all about to get the game out there. Marketing. Not necessarily reporting something new. Because the target audience for these sites and magazines are their readers, not necessarily the fans of the game. And fans of the game may not have been necessarily following all the updates. So those fans who read these articles from gaming sites or magazine might be surprised to read something that they've either haven't read in an update or just plain forgotten and don't remember reading it. So it's another lame arse excuse when they say 'fans are in on it' when there are fans who haven't read every update and know everything about the game. They just need to report the game like good little reporters, instead of making excuses.

 

A good journalist will be able to report a game regardless if it's AAA, independent, Kickstarter, or whatever. A bad journalist is one who complains that because it's not AAA, it's all too hard.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist II
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One thing i do hate about this game at the momment is the MASSIVE lack of info on it. It took a year and half just to know what the name of this world was called!!! are we going to have to wait a nother year and half to see 5 seconds of the UI. WTF  -the game looks like a 10 out of 10. :w00t:     but this lack of info is VERY frustrating im still waiting to see you guys show of 1 character. 

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To be fair? So you're making excuses for them as well. You're missing the fact that Obsidian kept stuff under wraps and behind closed doors so the journalists would have something new to write about. And this is new stuff that the backers don't know about.

Yes, to be fair. Maybe I should say "to be objective"?

 

You're missing the fact that Obsidian showing ONE E3 presentation that we hafta wait like a week to see in no way negates the 79 updates they provided us with before that (all that stuff we didn't have to read about via press articles... yeah, that.)

 

Besides, I don't know what that has to do with the sheer fact that Kickstarted games tend to present information directly to the populous, rather than using the press as a liaison. Call it an excuse if you feel like. I just thought it was something that's true that you were choosing to ignore. You don't have to defend yourself like it somehow proves there aren't incompetent/lazy journalists out there.

 

I haven't even watched that video you're referencing (can't view most media sites from work), which is precisely why I'm not commenting directly on whether or not those particular journalists are crappy or not, much less making excuses for them.

 

I'm not really worried about what you decide is what. I'm just here to say my part and be done.

 

/Done


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Yes, to be fair. Maybe I should say "to be objective"?

 

You're missing the fact that Obsidian showing ONE E3 presentation that we hafta wait like a week to see in no way negates the 79 updates they provided us with before that (all that stuff we didn't have to read about via press articles... yeah, that.)

 

Besides, I don't know what that has to do with the sheer fact that Kickstarted games tend to present information directly to the populous, rather than using the press as a liaison. Call it an excuse if you feel like. I just thought it was something that's true that you were choosing to ignore. You don't have to defend yourself like it somehow proves there aren't incompetent/lazy journalists out there.

 

I haven't even watched that video you're referencing (can't view most media sites from work), which is precisely why I'm not commenting directly on whether or not those particular journalists are crappy or not, much less making excuses for them.

 

I'm not really worried about what you decide is what. I'm just here to say my part and be done.

 

/Done

 

 

Objective? You're not being objective. All you're doing is making excuses for bad journalism and bad journalists in general.

 

You're also missing the fact that readers of these sites may not know anything about these Kickstarter games or PoE at all and don't have access to these updates or not where to look.

 

And if Kickstarter games present information to the populous then how come the Kickstarter website hides updates from non-backers on a lot of games? It doesn't present information to the populace when the updates are hidden. The fact that I might be able read about a particular game from a gaming website or magazine, with a summary about the game is far better than searching the internet to find and read all the updates for a game that I haven't backed and not know about.

 

What's more logical.

 

a) I read a gaming website and come across a Kickstarter game I know nothing about, think to myself, that sounds great and then look for the game. Reporter has done their job.

b) I read a gaming website, never read about a Kickstarter game. No nothing about it. And then try and find a game I know nothing about? Reporter refuses to report the game because it's a Kickstarter game, because they don't know how to write about a Kickstarter game. It should be irrelevant if the game is Kickstarted.

 

And I wouldn't want to read all the updates of this game I know nothing about. I only want a summary of what the game is. Not the audio or VFX of the game and how it's being implemented. This is being marketed to people who haven't heard or know very little about the game. This is not being marketed to the fans who reads every update. So it doesn't matter if the reporter reports new stuff or not. It's reporting the game to people who don't know anything about it. Let that sink in for a moment. It's irrelevant if the reporter knows or doesn't know they're reporting new stuff. They get an interview with the developer and report the game. The developer tells the reporter all this cool stuff and features. The reporter then reports all this cool stuff and features. That's it.

 

This is marketed to people who don't know about the game. Presumably, the reason why they went to E3 in the first place. To market the game and get journalists to write up what they see and is being told to them by the developers. Whether that's new content, features, or anything else that's in the game. i.e. report the game. A fact you seem to forget.

 

And you haven't even watched the video? WTF is wrong with you. You're arguing and excusing these journalists in your first post by saying things like 'to be fair' and now you haven't even watched the video. Seriously, instead of jumping into threads and debating against people without any knowledge of what's being discussed, at least watch the video before jumping to your usual arguing against forum posters stance.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist II
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This is also something I do not understand. If this is so NDA heavy and backers do not get to see much of it anyway. Why are these updates are hidden anyway from the public? Because they can not handle work in progress screenshots or because Obsidian wanted something  for backers in the first place so they have chosen these constant written very general updates? ? Again a very questionable marketing decision in my opinion. 

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Troll continues to troll. *shrug*


"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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I imagine the whole Obsidian design team reading this thread while eating popcorn and havig great laughs.

 

Being honest, I am grateful that they haven't shown the footage from E3. I think I wouldn't have been able to resist the temptation, and some story and gameplay surprises would have been spoiled for me.

It is astounding that some people think Obsidian doesn't share much about PoE. There's lots of insider information in the 80 updates we have seen so far. It is another thing that some people don't like reading, but the information is there. And the debate, for the developers are very open to discuss feedback and constructive criticism.

 

Another thing: I think that by now it is very safe to say that many people in this forum don't understand the meaning of the sentence "work in progress". You only have to read the comments on the first UI update, basically any art update, and every in-game screenshot or video (not to mention the music). No wonder they want to polish things as much as possible before showing them.

 

Haveng said this, I am really looking forward to the spoiler-free video and (oh yeah) the backer beta.

Edited by RabidRatMonkey
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