Female gamers having a hard time in gaming communites

[tajerio]

 

But compared to all other types of people in the world, straight white men face and have faced the fewest specific forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment.

Nah. They face less discrimination, certainly. But as to who faces "derogatory" and "dehumanizing" treatment? How can you even being to quantify that?

 

 

"Specific forms" is my real point there.  I'm not contesting for a single second that everyone in the world can be the target of terrible things done by other people.  But how many forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment have specifically targeted the straight white male?  Compared to, say, black people, or gay men?  That's what I'm getting at.

[Volourn]

"In my view, complaining about this stuff is just as dumb as those people who whine about feeling "unsafe" on the internet. White dues have it pretty easy on this Planet Earth. People who are upset about that have a legitimate grievance. And they are allowed to have that grievance without prefacing their remarks so as not to hurt your feelings.

But what flows equally from that grievance is the understanding that, when it comes to issues like this, your delivery is just as important as the content. Very few people actually run around calling white men "devils" and they are usually made fun of by everyone else. Sure, certain radicalized idiots might find an internet forum where they can indulge this behavior without fear of being called on it, but for the most part these people cannot act that way and get away with it.

All of this whining about it makes a person look like a petulant crybaby. I'm of the opinion that everybody -- men, women, etc -- should harden the eff up and stop complaining about their goddamn feelings all the time. I don't care about your feelings, and I don't want you to care about my feelings. Let's care about things that are actual and verifiable and measurable, and leave feelings for bedtime."
 

I'm not crying. I'm stating facts. The point was that you don't need to be female, black, or some other minority to be attacked on the internet.Or real life.

 

 

 

"White dues have it pretty easy on this Planet Earth. People who are upset about that have a legitimate grievance. And they are allowed to have that grievance without prefacing their remarks so as not to hurt your feelings."

 

They sure do. The rapes, the murders, the abuse they have suffered just like anyone makes it so easy. Define 'pretty easy'.

 

But, yeah, youa re one of those who believe white males are not human. That they can't suffer.

 

A white man comes into a hospital with his hand cut off crying and you likely shrug your shoulders, and proclaim" Check your privledge!" as you let the youing woman with a a hangnail see the doctor first. LMAO

[BruceVC]

Interesting that Volo keeps saying all the things that are known to happen to women have also happened to him. None of those things have ever happened to me. In fact, the few times dumb idiots have harassed me on the internet they attempted to do so by making me out to be effeminate by comparing me to a girl, female slurs (bitch) or implying I was gay (liking men is a traditionally female trait). That, or they threaten and insult not me but my mother (hint: a woman). It's either bitch or son of a bitch. Women literally get more insults than me even when they're not around. In fact, one member of this board who shall not be named found a youtube channel of a female friend of mine and started insulting *her* in an attempt to attack me. I have never once been insulted based on my own gender or even race and I grew up as one of the few white kids in a black neighbourhood.

 

 

Thats an excellent, honest, evocative and relevant post. Seriously dude...well done

 

I hope Volo takes the time to read and absorb it

[Blarghagh]

I hope it makes up for some of my earlier posts in this thread where I just flipped my lid and decided to yell at Gromnir about Americans and free speech with the most nonsensical arguments. Ironically, those posts have netted me more "likes" than anything else I've ever posted. Sometimes I get concerned about this board.

 

A white man comes into a hospital with his hand cut off crying and you likely shrug your shoulders, and proclaim" Check your privledge!" as you let the youing woman with a a hangnail see the doctor first. LMAO

 

See, this is why I don't know if I can take your claims seriously. Where on earth do you live that you consider this a conceivably accurate scenario? My god. Either you live in the worst place on the planet or you may be having some serious cognitive distortions.

Edited May 16, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Volourn]

 How is it evocative? It's likely true. People will attack a guy's mother to hurt the guy because well known fact; MEN TEND TO LOVE THEIR MOTHER. So, if you want to hurt a guy you attack what they love. What that implies is that guys hate their fathers sonobody taunts the father because guys would just shrug but if you attack a guy's mother they will RAGE which is what the attacker wants.

 

Afterall, what's more rage inducing? Someone attacking you with an insult or someone attacking someone you love.

 

This is why I tend to swear 'son of a bastard'. That just makes people confused. LMAO

 

\Sadly, there are those who do find women weak and use insulting language against them. Those people are scumbags. Many of them are men but plenty of women do it too. 'Hit like  a girl' is a common insult that both genders use. It's wrong. Since plenty of women hit pretty damn hard.

\

But, see, I believe in gender equality.  Chauvinist pigs do not. Feminists do not. Both those groups are  filled with hateful scumbags.

 

 

"See, this is why I don't know if I can take your claims seriously. Where on earth do you live that you consider this a conceivably accurate scenario? My god."\

 

LMAO It's called an exaggeration, toolbag.

 

But, my point about 'being attacked on the internet' are just facts. I lost counts how many '**** picks' I've been sent. 8sigh* The cost of doing bizness on the Codex. HAHA

 

Of course, there are examples of this: Watch Titanic. What's the best way to show a man is a bad guy? He wants to get off the ship before a women because that is evil because men are trash and should be killed before women because women are more 'valuable'.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Volourn

[Chilloutman]

 

How can one feel unsafe on the internet? You can't be hurt on the internet. 

 

Oh come on now.  In a physical sense, you're correct.  In an emotional sense, you are absolutely wrong.  Not everyone has a thick skin and a detached perspective, but that doesn't make them any less important.

 

And we've got to remember what Louis CK said in a standup special a couple years ago--"I'm a white man.  You can't even hurt my feelings!"  Most of the filth that gets thrown around the internet isn't aimed at the straight white man, which most of us posting in this thread are.  So I don't think we can get inside the heads of people who are the targets of much worse abuse than we'll ever suffer and say, "What's wrong with you?  That shouldn't hurt."

 

 

I get you can somehow know if user is male or female on forum, but for god sake how you know what ethnic he is? starting to be madness here. For me internet user is internet user, I dont judge them differently. I know that some guys like to 'white knight' when womens are around in discussions but I am for equality and I someone type something stupid I will react same no matter if its women, chinese are inteligent ape

[Malcador]

I hope it makes up for some of my earlier posts in this thread where I just flipped my lid and decided to yell at Gromnir about Americans and free speech with the most nonsensical arguments. Ironically, those posts have netted me more "likes" than anything else I've ever posted. Sometimes I get concerned about this board.

Board has a lot of Euros, they eat that stuff up it seems.

 

Anyway, the Internet in general has a lot of abuse, which in a way I don't mind - crap on a screen doesn't make me want to weep or feel dehumanized. But I guess the lesson is that some victims of it are more special than others.

[Meshugger]

 

 

But compared to all other types of people in the world, straight white men face and have faced the fewest specific forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment.

Nah. They face less discrimination, certainly. But as to who faces "derogatory" and "dehumanizing" treatment? How can you even being to quantify that?

 

 

"Specific forms" is my real point there.  I'm not contesting for a single second that everyone in the world can be the target of terrible things done by other people.  But how many forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment have specifically targeted the straight white male?  Compared to, say, black people, or gay men?  That's what I'm getting at.

 

 

Or people with glasses, or people with funny accents, or people with braces, or social outcasts, or people who smell, or people. 

 

Nothing beats you down as life itself does. And will keep on hitting you unless you allow yourself to be beaten. IT's not about the beating itself, it's about how mych beating you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning at life is done, not blaming everyone and everything.

 

Yeah, i've watched Rocky the other day, but damn was he right.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Meshugger

[decado]

 

 

But compared to all other types of people in the world, straight white men face and have faced the fewest specific forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment.

Nah. They face less discrimination, certainly. But as to who faces "derogatory" and "dehumanizing" treatment? How can you even being to quantify that?

 

 

"Specific forms" is my real point there.  I'm not contesting for a single second that everyone in the world can be the target of terrible things done by other people.  But how many forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment have specifically targeted the straight white male?  Compared to, say, black people, or gay men?  That's what I'm getting at.

 

This doesn't really help your argument, though. Every white male who has ever been through US military bootcamp has been dehumanized and faced with derogatory comments. Every white male who has been through high school in the United States has been dehumanized and faced derogatory comments. You keep using these two words, but I think you want to use other words. You're basically saying that white men don't get insulted or treated like ****. Of course they do, and it is usually from other white males. Focusing on this is waste of time and effort. Edited May 16, 2014 by decado

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

But compared to all other types of people in the world, straight white men face and have faced the fewest specific forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment.

Nah. They face less discrimination, certainly. But as to who faces "derogatory" and "dehumanizing" treatment? How can you even being to quantify that?

 

 

"Specific forms" is my real point there.  I'm not contesting for a single second that everyone in the world can be the target of terrible things done by other people.  But how many forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment have specifically targeted the straight white male?  Compared to, say, black people, or gay men?  That's what I'm getting at.

 

This doesn't really help your argument, though. Every white male who has ever been through US military bootcamp has been dehumanized and faced with derogatory comments. Every white male who has been through high school in the United States has been dehumanized and faced derogatory comments. You keep using these two words, but I think you want to use other words. You're basically saying that white men don't get insulted or treated like ****. Of course they do, and it is usually from other white males. Focusing on this is waste of time and effort.

 

 

You are actually insulting the intelligence of people who follow and study the issues of sexism and misogyny if you are suggesting that on an average men go through the same amount of abuse, either physical or verbal, that many women are subjected to in real life and the Internet

[decado]

 

 

 

 

But compared to all other types of people in the world, straight white men face and have faced the fewest specific forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment.

Nah. They face less discrimination, certainly. But as to who faces "derogatory" and "dehumanizing" treatment? How can you even being to quantify that?

 

 

"Specific forms" is my real point there.  I'm not contesting for a single second that everyone in the world can be the target of terrible things done by other people.  But how many forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment have specifically targeted the straight white male?  Compared to, say, black people, or gay men?  That's what I'm getting at.

 

This doesn't really help your argument, though. Every white male who has ever been through US military bootcamp has been dehumanized and faced with derogatory comments. Every white male who has been through high school in the United States has been dehumanized and faced derogatory comments. You keep using these two words, but I think you want to use other words. You're basically saying that white men don't get insulted or treated like ****. Of course they do, and it is usually from other white males. Focusing on this is waste of time and effort.

 

 

You are actually insulting the intelligence of people who follow and study the issues of sexism and misogyny if you are suggesting that on an average men go through the same amount of abuse, either physical or verbal, that many women are subjected to in real life and the Internet

 

1) How is physical abuse possible over the internet? Did you mean to type that?

2) If you are going to count the "amount of abuse" (which is a thing I don't think you can do), I would love to see how you can say one group gets more abuse than another. We can certainly say that women get abuse that is worse in nature, and a lot more vicious, but you can't really say anything about "amount." It is ridiculous to even try. The internet is a finely oiled hate machine, everyone gets abused.

3) If you want to talk about who gets abused more physically, let's look at the crime statistics.  They clearly show that men are more often the victims of physical violence, at least in the US.  So using that metric is probably not advantageous to your position.

4) I don't give a single, solitary sh!t about who I insult, or their supposed intelligence.

Edited May 16, 2014 by decado

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

But compared to all other types of people in the world, straight white men face and have faced the fewest specific forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment.

Nah. They face less discrimination, certainly. But as to who faces "derogatory" and "dehumanizing" treatment? How can you even being to quantify that?

 

 

"Specific forms" is my real point there.  I'm not contesting for a single second that everyone in the world can be the target of terrible things done by other people.  But how many forms of derogatory and dehumanizing treatment have specifically targeted the straight white male?  Compared to, say, black people, or gay men?  That's what I'm getting at.

 

This doesn't really help your argument, though. Every white male who has ever been through US military bootcamp has been dehumanized and faced with derogatory comments. Every white male who has been through high school in the United States has been dehumanized and faced derogatory comments. You keep using these two words, but I think you want to use other words. You're basically saying that white men don't get insulted or treated like ****. Of course they do, and it is usually from other white males. Focusing on this is waste of time and effort.

 

 

You are actually insulting the intelligence of people who follow and study the issues of sexism and misogyny if you are suggesting that on an average men go through the same amount of abuse, either physical or verbal, that many women are subjected to in real life and the Internet

 

 

And I will join him, you cant talk about intelligence when mentioning student of gender studies 

 

HA! Good fun

[Volourn]

"We can certainly say that women get abuse that is worse in nature, and a lot more vicious,"

 

Can we REALLY say that? I don't buy that myth at all. It reeks of ignorance.

[Blarghagh]

And I will join him, you cant talk about intelligence when mentioning student of gender studies 

 

HA! Good fun

 

 

This might be slightly (fine, entirely) off topic, but did you forget to switch accounts again Gromnir?

Edited May 16, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Chilloutman]

 

And I will join him, you cant talk about intelligence when mentioning student of gender studies 

 

HA! Good fun

 

 

This might be slightly (fine, entirely) off topic, but did you forget to switch accounts again Gromnir?

 

 

No I am not Gromnir, but that HA! Good fun is so irritating after each his post that I have to mimic it to flush my frustration with it out

[Blarghagh]

Haha, I couldn't agree more.

[Nonek]

 

You are actually insulting the intelligence of people who follow and study the issues of sexism and misogyny

 

 

Your mission Jim if you choose to accept it, is to make these people look more stupid than they allready appear, good luck.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWGeRgFa-hI

 

Edit: By thunder i'd forgotten how ridiculously catchy that was.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Nonek

[Gfted1]

Huh, I didn't know Leonard Nimoy was in Mission Impossible.

[decado]

"We can certainly say that women get abuse that is worse in nature, and a lot more vicious,"

 

Can we REALLY say that? I don't buy that myth at all. It reeks of ignorance.

Yes, we can really say that.  And this is the kind of nonsense from "the other side" that makes males look ridiculous.  Most men aren't getting rape threats for daring to make a post about video games.  You lose nothing by admitting this, and in fact your position is strengthened for conceding what is (eventually) a trivial point that everyone else already believes anyway.

 

There are only two ways this stuff is going to end:

 

1) We eradicate abuse from the internet

2) We change our attitudes about it.

 

1 is never going to happen, not unless we fundamentally destroy the very characteristics of the internet that make it valuable to us.  

 

So 2 is what we have to do.  Changing our attitudes about online abuse involves several things:

 

A) Admitting that it happens

B) Admitting that it happens to women in a particularly vicious way

C) Remaining measured and calm in our attempts to fix the problem, which includes:

I) Understanding that some people will always think their feelings are the most important thing in the world

II) Understanding it is okay to ignore these people, because you will never be able to get through to them

III) Understanding that, unless you are talking about children and teenagers, online abuse is not even in the same ballpark as actual, physical abuse. At the end of the day, you always have the option to turn off the screen and walk away.  

 

 

In essence, the solution is to keep things in perspective and not throw your freedoms of expression under the bus to salve the feelings of those who are offended. On this Earth, nobody has the right to not be offended.  You cannot create standards of decency by catering to weaklings.

Edited May 16, 2014 by decado

[Malcador]

Understanding that some people will always think their feelings are the most important thing in the world

Given the context of the discussion now, this was rather funny.

[Volourn]

"Yes, we can really say that.  And this is the kind of nonsense from "the other side" that makes males look ridiculous.  Most men aren't getting rape threats for daring to make a post about video games.  You lose nothing by admitting this, and in fact your position is strengthened for conceding what is (eventually) a trivial point that everyone else already believes anyway."

 

Who said anything about 'rape threats' about video games/ That wasn't what i was arguing, you schmuck. Sadly, women probably get more rape threats over that.

 

I was arguing this: "We can certainly say that women get abuse that is worse in nature, and a lot more vicious,"  which was a response to this silly nonsense:

"You are actually insulting the intelligence of people who follow and study the issues of sexism and misogyny if you are suggesting that on an average men go through the same amount of abuse, either physical or verbal, that many women are subjected to in REAL LIFE and the Internet"

 

as in overall in real life not just silly internet unless you wanna go back to that silly argument. In real life, men get abused, assaulted, and trash in just as bad ways as women do. Don't let the modernpolitik fool you.

 

Now, rape threats on the internet? Yeah, women are probably the highest target.. then again, we all know, 90% of women on the net are actually men. L0L

 

Then again, women gain benefits on the net as well b/c of their gender as evidenced by many MMO stories  of men pretending to be women so they get 'free gifts',

 

 

"2) We change our attitudes about it."
 

My attitude is fine. I never threatened to rape a woman on the internet so I have nothing to be ashamed about there.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Volourn

[Amentep]

Huh, I didn't know Leonard Nimoy was in Mission Impossible.

He replaced Martin Landau's Rollin Hand in the fourth and fifth season after Landau and Barbara Bain departed the series.

 

He played The Great Paris, a retired magician and make-up specialist. Bain's Cinnamon wasn't directly replaced in the 4th season, instead they had rotating female agents (only one making multiple appearances, Lee Meriwether's Tracey). Season 5 brought in Lesley Ann Warren's Dana Lambert.

 

In season 6, Lambert was replaced by Linda Day's Casey, but Nimoy's Paris wasn't replaced, instead the series opted to give a bigger role to Greg Morris' Barney and a slightly larger role for Phelps rather than bring in a new male lead.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Amentep

[Gromnir]

am gonna avoid race for the time being. 

 

kid # 1: she is manipulative, condescending and  possibly psychotic. she comes from a wealthy family, dresses according to current fashions and is of average/slightly above average intelligence. she is considered attractive by whatever is the current standard o' attractiveness.

 

kid #2: is very bright and friendly but has aspergers. his family is poor. kid #2 has bad teeth and is tending towards being fat without being morbidly obese. his clothes is a hodgepodge of hand-me-downs that don't fit quite right, and donated outerwear chosen for warmth and durability rather than aesthetics. 

 

both is thirteen-year-olds... in whatever grade is typical for such age. we forget.

 

in what percentage of schools is kid #2 treated better than kid #1?

 

"well, with all things being equal..."

 

guess what, things is never equal. women, especially in certain fields, has gotta deal with glass ceilings and different expectations from male counterparts. is not fair. is not right. that being said, we suspect that most discrimination (small "d" as 'posed to big "D") people suffer in the US these days is less about race and sex than it is 'bout ... other things.

 

aside: is a girl we knew in university who always chose classes with married and male professors. she claimed that at minimum she could get her grade boosted from a C+ to a B- or from a B+ to an A-. we saw her do it too. am embarrassed to admit we dated her for a few months.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Chilloutman]

am gonna avoid race for the time being. 

 

kid # 1: she is manipulative, condescending and  possibly psychotic. she comes from a wealthy family, dresses according to current fashions and is of average/slightly above average intelligence. she is considered attractive by whatever is the current standard o' attractiveness.

 

kid #2: is very bright and friendly but has aspergers. his family is poor. kid #2 has bad teeth and is tending towards being fat without being morbidly obese. his clothes is a hodgepodge of hand-me-downs that don't fit quite right, and donated outerwear chosen for warmth and durability rather than aesthetics. 

 

both is thirteen-year-olds... in whatever grade is typical for such age. we forget.

 

in what percentage of schools is kid #2 treated better than kid #1?

 

"well, with all things being equal..."

 

guess what, things is never equal. women, especially in certain fields, has gotta deal with glass ceilings and different expectations from male counterparts. is not fair. is not right. that being said, we suspect that most discrimination (small "d" as 'posed to big "D") people suffer in the US these days is less about race and sex than it is 'bout ... other things.

 

aside: is a girl we knew in university who always chose classes with married and male professors. she claimed that at minimum she could get her grade boosted from a C+ to a B- or from a B+ to an A-. we saw her do it too. am embarrassed to admit we dated her for a few months.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Did you dated here during she got banged by professors for B+ or after?

[Volourn]

He never claimed she 'banged her professors'. Just that she used her 'feminine wiles' to get 'better than she deserved' grades.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Volourn