Dragon Age: Inquistion

[Monte Carlo]

I started looking through Dave Gaider's blog but failed my SAN check.

[BruceVC]

You do realise that Gaider also couldn't force himself to read all the books or watch all the movies?

 

Yes  I read that but he did watch all but one. Also his intention is to understand through various sources of popular entertainment, like Twilight, what resonates with people around  topics like Romance. This is basically research for him and he is not watching Twilight to pass judgement on the entire genre.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I started looking through Dave Gaider's blog but failed my SAN check.

[BruceVC]

I started looking through Dave Gaider's blog but failed my SAN check.

 

Storage Area Network? What has that got to do with Gaider and the relevance of his blog 

[IndiraLightfoot]

Perhaps it's a SANitation check.

[BruceVC]

Perhaps it's a SANitation check.

  oh thats clever....well played

[kirottu]

 

You do realise that Gaider also couldn't force himself to read all the books or watch all the movies?

 

Yes  I read that but he did watch all but one. Also his intention is to understand through various sources of popular entertainment, like Twilight, what resonates with people around  topics like Romance. This is basically research for him and he is not watching Twilight to pass judgement on the entire genre.

 

So it was okay for Gaider, but not for Grommy, because Gaider was doing it for Romance?

[Gromnir]

 

The only reason the argument of "You must have finished the whole thing to have a valid opinion" is ever made is so that, whatever the response, the followup argument of "you went through the whole thing, so you must have liked something about it" can be made.

 

You right I could have said that and attempted to catch Gromnir out with that logic. But that isn't my intention.

 

I was just raising the consideration with Gromnir that maybe he is doing exactly what Gaider is suggesting. He is disliking Twilight because " everyone" tells him its a puerile series. He is not practicing critical thinking but being more of a sheep. Also I don't think it is fair to suggest that anyone outside of being a 14 year old female teenager that enjoyed Twilight is a troglodyte that lives in a cellar.

 

 

Especially if you haven't watched the entire series, this goes towards a persons credibility on a topic

 

we used the cellar dweller language 'cause dave did. am gonna also observe that dave made some pretty broad generalizations in his blog post, but we leave for another time.

 

nope, you don't need to live in cellar to like twilight... though we bet lack o' experience with real world would be helpful in appreciating the series. folks with head injuries who has emotionally regressed? is some kinds o' dementia that we believe emotionally retards sufferer. is some folks who simply like childish things and carry that over to romance. heck, we likes all kinda literature made for kids. more than once we has noted that phantom tollbooth, swiftly titling planet, and a number o' gaiman books is 'mongst our favorite fantasy works. the thing is, there is a difference 'tween made-for-kids, and juvenile/insipid/puerile.  

 

speaking of gaiman, we liked stardust very much. is a fairytale with romance integral to story.  if dave wanna consider source material that can be appreciated by fourteen-year old girls without treating us all as if we is stereotypical fourteen-year old girls, stardust would be a good option.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I started looking through Dave Gaider's blog but failed my SAN check.

I made it through. Feel like the survivor at the end of The Cube.

[sorophx]

Twilight is not a cult series, it's a mainstream hit that teaches 14 y.o. girls about the wonders of being in an abusive relationship. there's nothing romantic about it. in fact, it's sickening to watch. and I'm sure the book is written horribly with as little skill as possible, you just can't appeal to teen girls with good literature. 

 

so, the Twilight series have no merits other than being a best-seller and a blockbuster. which only benefits its publishers and producers. is this what I should expect from all Bio romances in the future? the future is bleak then

[Bryy]

you just can't appeal to teen girls with good literature. 

You have just informed me that I should never listen to your opinion. Good to know.

[Humanoid]

Doesn't feel that long ago that it was all about Dawson's Creek and Mmm'bop.

[Endrosz]

Twilight is not a cult series, it's a mainstream hit that teaches 14 y.o. girls about the wonders of being in an abusive relationship. there's nothing romantic about it. in fact, it's sickening to watch.

 

A few years back when I was seeing a female headshrink, once we had a great conversation about this exact topic. She, knowing the topic of abusive relationships all too well, explained to me why Edward is a very creepy stalker in real-life terms and that the whole series just "smells" of abuse.

[Drowsy Emperor]

am thinking dave did do himself a disservice by making that blog post.  we woulda' laughed at the situation, or made some kinda joke 'bout it all.  the thing is, in trying to explain away the criticisms, he seems to bolster them a bit. 

 

"Yes, I get it. It’s funnier to repeat that, how a writer for a major franchise known for its romances might have a burning love for the Twilight series. Especially to those who think the romances I write are juvenile, and how anyone who likes our romances is clearly either a fourteen-year old girl with moonpies for eyes or an emotionally-stunted guy who’s never had a relationship in his life."

 

ok, that's kinda funny.  

 

the problem we got is that dave then admits that he wrote the following:

 

"Well, I think Twilight is far more effective with its romantic elements than most people give it credit for. Granted, it has little else going for it— but the romance it does well. I find it a fascinating exercise to analyze exactly why that is."

 

*sigh*

 

dave has gotta be aware that the target audience o' the twilight series is,  "fourteen-year old girl(s) with moonpies for eyes or an emotionally-stunted guy who’s never had a relationship in his life." yes, am thinking we all agree that twilight has been enormously successful at selling romance. that is not a fact in question. however, dave's claims that twilight does an admirable job at crafting romance, and that he thinks the series is worth analyzing (presumably to improve his own romances) makes grownups shudder with revulsion... and it makes the trolls dance with glee. the only people who want you to take anything positive away from the twilight romances is the twilight target audience: teen-aged girls and pathetic cellar dwellers. dave, don't you see the damage you are doing to yourself?  please, step back and look at what you is saying. you gotta recognize that you is only giving the folks who dismiss your romance efforts more ammo with which to attack you.

 

romance is not universal. romance is culturally biased and travels only slightly better than comedy. also, romance ages. if we were a 14 year old girl, we would probable like the twilight movies better than the painted veil (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0446755/). heck, am wondering if teenage girls even likes the somewhat more familiar melodrama o' atonement (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0783233/). regardless, to hold up twilight as a model for romance is exactly what some folks is seeing as the problem with bio romance writers.  

 

dave, help us help you.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps if the target audience for twilight romance were fourteen-year old boys it wouldn't make the romance any better... just shorter and more graphic.

 

Painted Veil was an okay movie. What happens in Twilight is not romance, its immature infatuation with someone or other typical for teenagers.  In fact the thing the principal character is most infatuated with is not another person, but staying in the center of attention.

 

Twilight is garbage even by youth literature standards because it has 0 artistic or educational value, and has no function other than to validate the readers skewed perspective of the world and human relations, to indulge exactly that which shouldn't be indulged.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor

[BruceVC]

Twilight is not a cult series, it's a mainstream hit that teaches 14 y.o. girls about the wonders of being in an abusive relationship. there's nothing romantic about it. in fact, it's sickening to watch. and I'm sure the book is written horribly with as little skill as possible, you just can't appeal to teen girls with good literature. 

 

so, the Twilight series have no merits other than being a best-seller and a blockbuster. which only benefits its publishers and producers. is this what I should expect from all Bio romances in the future? the future is bleak

 

You see your post highlights the issue  I have with peoples opinions around Twilight. Its basically completely dismissive and condescending around something that millions of people really enjoy and identify with

 

And that's the first time I have ever heard that Twilight somehow encourages acceptance of abusive relationships. You obviously are joking

[Monte Carlo]

Bruce, Google the topic. I'm lucky enough to have never seen any of the Twilight movies but I've heard the abusive relationship angle about the series. I think it's unintended by the author, but lots of credible people have commented on it.

[BruceVC]

Bruce, Google the topic. I'm lucky enough to have never seen any of the Twilight movies but I've heard the abusive relationship angle about the series. I think it's unintended by the author, but lots of credible people have commented on it.

 

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them

[Monte Carlo]

It isn't my job to search the Internet for you.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Bruce, Google the topic. I'm lucky enough to have never seen any of the Twilight movies but I've heard the abusive relationship angle about the series. I think it's unintended by the author, but lots of credible people have commented on it.

 

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them

 

 

Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage.

 

Here's a fairly detailed analysis why.

Edited May 8, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[HoonDing]

I am certain Twilight is garbage because my sisters like it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I second that, Bruce. Aluminiumtrioxid is right. Plus, I have seen the first movie and I was appalled by its low quality and its nonsense about group dynamics and the drive behind sexual attraction. I'd even prefer most Harlequin novels over this.

 

Here are more links to articles written by PhDs on the subject:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psychologist-the-movies/201111/relationship-violence-in-twilight

 

http://www.scienceofrelationships.com/home/2011/11/10/a-cold-embrace-twilight-and-relationship-violence.html

[Endrosz]

Bruce, Google the topic. I'm lucky enough to have never seen any of the Twilight movies but I've heard the abusive relationship angle about the series. I think it's unintended by the author, but lots of credible people have commented on it.

 

Once again you impress me with your insight. Yes, it's entirely plausible that Stephanie Meyer, as a first-book author (first books are always more "raw"), didn't consciously create these scenarios.

 

I also won't argue with Gaider over his statement that Meyer stumbled upon something essential that resonated with a lot of readers, even before the series became a mainstream overhyped thing. Yes, there's something deep down in recesses of the Twilight Saga.  I just have a foreboding feeling that I don't really want know what that essence is. That it's something best left undisturbed...

[BruceVC]

It isn't my job to search the Internet for you.

 

Yes Monte it is. You need to prove to me you are right, please don't be lazy. You have loads of time to comment on how much you dislike Romance but you can't spend 5 minutes researching perceptions around Twilight. This tells me you lack commitment around your perspective

 

 

Bruce, Google the topic. I'm lucky enough to have never seen any of the Twilight movies but I've heard the abusive relationship angle about the series. I think it's unintended by the author, but lots of credible people have commented on it.

 

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them

 

 

Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage.

 

Here's a fairly detailed analysis why.

 

 

 

I second that, Bruce. Aluminiumtrioxid is right. Plus, I have seen the first movie and I was appalled by its low quality and its nonsense about group dynamics and the drive behind sexual attraction. I'd even prefer most Harlequin novels over this.

 

Here are more links to articles written by PhDs on the subject:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psychologist-the-movies/201111/relationship-violence-in-twilight

 

http://www.scienceofrelationships.com/home/2011/11/10/a-cold-embrace-twilight-and-relationship-violence.html

 

I do respect both of your opinions immensely  on almost  most issues of social justice. Thanks for the links, I'll read them and get back to you

Edited May 8, 2014 by BruceVC

[Nepenthe]

Whether Twilight is absolute garbage or not, it might have some redeeming qualities or have "an interesting element". It's those aspects you can't comment on without having fully familiarised yourself with the product, even if you have gathered enough data to dismiss the whole of it as garbage. I mean, look at all those shows on Discovery where people find something valuable in trash.

[tripleRRR]

Didn't see this posted here yet.

 

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2014/05/06/the-return-of-varric-in-dragon-age-inquisition.aspx