Obama Impeachment

[ManifestedISO]

 

 

Yes yes, we are all doomed and we live in the worst times in history.  

 

You guys remember when Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for all American citizens, right?  Or when FDR rounded up a bunch of Japanese Americans and put them in internment camps?  You can literally name any president and we can go down the list of shady things they did in office.  Reagan effed up psychiatric care, Clinton got impeached.  Doom and gloom and all that.  

What wrong did Calvin Coolidge do?

 

 

Coolidge gets a bad rap when it comes to the Great Depression, but he did stabilize the office after a tumultuous Harding administration. 

 

 

I thought it was Hoover who got the Depression rap ... "Hoover-villes" of newly homeless and what-not. Anyway, I appreciate the cool water you've thrown on the hot irony in this thread.

[kgambit]

 

By the way, Clinton was not impeached, at least not in a way that ousted him from office. He was acquitted two months later by the Senate.

 

 

Yes he was acquitted but he WAS impeached.   Impeachment is simply the process of bringing charges against a Federal Official.  That's it.  It is just a bill of indictment.   It is NOT the act of removing that official from office.  That is done automatically if the subsequent trial (after a successful bill of impeachment is brought against the official) ends in a conviction.   The trial is NOT part of the impeachment process. 

 

Impeachment in the United States is an expressed power of the legislature that allows for formal charges against a civil officer of government for crimes committed in office. The actual trial on those charges, and subsequent removal of an official on conviction on those charges, is separate from the act of impeachment itself.    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

 

 

 

US Constitution, Article 2 section 4

 

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High crimes and Misdemeanors

 

 

 

Investigator Kenneth Starr brought 11 charges against Bill Clinton.   The House Judiciary Committee forwarded four charges to the House of Representatives. The House approved two of the four impeachment articles sent up by the Judiciary Committee, rejecting Article II (Perjury in the Paula Jones civil case) and Article IV (Abuse of Power by making perjurious statements to Congress in his answers to the 81 questions posed by the Judiciary Committee) .but passing Articles 1 (Perjury before Independent Counsel Ken Starr's grand jury) and Article III (Obstruction of Justice related to the Jones case)..  When the House successfully approved articles I and III, Bill Clinton had been impeached (indicted).   

 

Clinton was subsequently tried in Senate trial resided by Chief Justice William Rehnquist; was acquitted and remained in office.    

 

Here's a link with the full text of the articles of impeachment passed by the house:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/articles122098.htm#full1

 

Here's a link with the reduced text of all four original articles considered by the house

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/impeachvote121198.htm

 

 

Here's a NYTimes link that lays out the process:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/specials/impeachment/

 

William Jefferson Clinton was impeached on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice by a divided House of Representatives, which recommended virtually along party lines that the Senate remove the nation's 42d President from office.  NYTimes December 18,1998

 

Edited March 8, 2014 by kgambit

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I know what you're saying kg, but cut Taz some slack. Most Americans aren't clear on the specifics of impeachment, and Taz isn't an American citizen.

[Bartimaeus]

U.S. impeachment also differs from European impeachment. Isn't impeachment the actual act of conviction in the U.K., for example, whereas U.S. impeachment is merely the go ahead for the trial to take place?

Edited March 8, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Valsuelm]

 

In a different tone, there is one great thing Obama will be remembered for.  

 

50 years ago black kids were not even allowed to go to many white schools in this country.  We had a segregated society.

 

150 years ago black kids were bought and sold like cattle in this country.

 

The election of a black president is a tremendous symbol of how far we've come as a nation.  In another 150 years his policies will be forgotten, but the legacy of the American voters breaking the mold will continue to resonate.

 

Its really refreshing and good to see an American on these forums  saying something positive about there country and not seeing Obama as a complete and utter failure. So thanks for this post

 

 

So the best accomplishment we can come up for Obama is that he was born with a certain tint of skin? This is a positive thing?

 

How amazingly convoluted, yet reflecting the affect the divide and conquer aspect of racism propaganda in the mainstream western media has on many. A media which not only refuses to let racism die, it generally tends to promote it.

 

This is not something to be proud of, and so long as folks make issue of it, it will unfortunately be an issue, for some. Rasicm will finally die when it's no longer an issue what color someone's skin is at all. The future we should hope for is one where Obama is not remembered at all for the color of his skin. So long as folks make issue of it, in any manner, that future will not be attained.

 

To most folks it really isn't an issue whether Obama is black, white, purple, yellow, or polka dotted though, because it has absolutely no bearing on how good or bad a person or President he is. And he's a pretty bad one.

 

There's a lot I can say positive about my nation Bruce, but my president is not one of them. I'd certainly rather be living here than there, or most anywhere else. Obama isn't a failure to himself, he's actually been quite successful in his endeavors. However he, and the rest of the corrupt government we have is a failure of the American people to hold our representatives accountable. He is our (the collective U.S. populace) failure. There is pretty much nothing to celebrate in his Presidency unless you're a communist, a globalist, dislike the U.S. and want to see it fail, or are just plain naive/ignorant enough to believe enough of the lies.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Valsuelm]

Yes yes, we are all doomed and we live in the worst times in history.  

 

You guys remember when Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for all American citizens, right?  Or when FDR rounded up a bunch of Japanese Americans and put them in internment camps?  You can literally name any president and we can go down the list of shady things they did in office.  Reagan effed up psychiatric care, Clinton got impeached.  Doom and gloom and all that.  

 

Yes, I do. And FDR ranks among the worst presidents we've ever had in my opinion. Of course there's a poopton of misinformation out there that he's great, along with his cousin Teddy (who is also amongst worst). Lincoln wasn't the pure shiny gem of perfection of a president most popular history books/movies would have you believe either. Your average high school text book (which is the extent of most people's history knowledge if they even paid attention to that) glosses over a great deal of what they (and others) have done and puts them on a pedestal of sorts, largely because they did much for the oligarchs who determine what is in those text books. Don't know what I'm talking about? Start here, and go from there.

 

Regardless, yes, there's been overreaching of powers by the Federal Government since the first decade (ie: Alien and Sedition acts) of the existence of the U.S.., and *some* of those overreaches and injustices have gone away between then and now. Generally only because of folks standing up and fighting them. Sitting around and saying something along the lines of 'hey, other bad has happened before so the current bad will magically go away eventually, we just need to sit tight and that will happen' is... a bunch of things, none of which are good. But, moreover, the bad as it were, is at unprecedented levels in the U.S. and climbing fast. So fast, it's become apparent even to many of those who are half asleep. Many still are asleep though.

[Guard Dog]

I don't know if I'd say all the recent Presidents were terrible but I have very little positive to say about the last two. There is one thing I think no one would argue with is that the cause of individual liberty and freedom have been dealt a setback by both Bush II & BHO. To me that is the only thing that matters. The reach, scope and power of the federal government has increased, drastically on some things, federalism has decreased and our own personal freedom has been diminished. That is not a good thing.  

[HoonDing]

What was wrong with Teddy Roosevelt? Didn't he kill a grizzly bear with his bare hands?

[Hurlshort]

So I clicked on Valsuelm's link...

 

 

Let's just say I really nailed it when I mentioned Reagan's negative effect on mental health care.

 

 

 

On a serious note, we need to make a major push to repeal the Patriot Act.  It needs to be a major issue and it needs to be non-partisan.  Everybody needs to set aside their little party booklets and say get rid of it now.  I mean every aspect of it, not just a piece or two.

[Guard Dog]

On a serious note, we need to make a major push to repeal the Patriot Act.  It needs to be a major issue and it needs to be non-partisan.  Everybody needs to set aside their little party booklets and say get rid of it now.  I mean every aspect of it, not just a piece or two.

 

Amen Brother! It was a bad law that was ill-conceived, heavy-handedly applied and has allowed the last two administrations to do terrible things. That was the most serious blow to our freedom in recent memory.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I'd like to see how self-righteous you'll both be after the next terrorist attack.

[Guard Dog]

I'm a lot less worried about the terrorists in the middle east than I am about the ones just north of the Potomac right here at home. And the Patriot Act gives them way too much power that they have already shown they are happy to use against their own people.

[ManifestedISO]

 

This is not something to be proud of, and so long as folks make issue of it, it will unfortunately be an issue, for some. Rasicm will finally die when it's no longer an issue what color someone's skin is at all. 

 

 

Racism ... hatred of government ... they're the same thing--so long as people make an issue out of, it will always be an issue. I cannot understand promoting moving on from racism while actively disparaging government. Move away from labeling historic and present-day American leaders as the worst blight humanity has ever known, it just makes people want to ignore the shouting and take a nap. Which is why you think everyone is "asleep" when it comes to self-governance ... we're not dolts, we just don't want you spitting in our face. We would all be speaking a different language if it weren't for FDR, and our national government, so let it go and move on.   

[213374U]

I'd like to see how self-righteous you'll both be after the next terrorist attack.

 

How does it feel, living in constant terror?

[Wrath of Dagon]

I live in constant frustration over the state of my fellow citizens, not terror. That doesn't mean we should just ignore the very obvious threat and stick our heads in the sand.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

On a serious note, we need to make a major push to repeal the Patriot Act.  It needs to be a major issue and it needs to be non-partisan.  Everybody needs to set aside their little party booklets and say get rid of it now.  I mean every aspect of it, not just a piece or two.

 

Amen Brother! It was a bad law that was ill-conceived, heavy-handedly applied and has allowed the last two administrations to do terrible things. That was the most serious blow to our freedom in recent memory.

 

Motion seconded. The PATRIOT Act is one of the worst pieces of legislation to have ever been made law. Tied with the 18th amendment IMO.

 

I'm not a moral absolutist, but this is one of the very few black and white issues that exists in the world.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Something tells me most of you don't have any idea what's actually in the Patriot Act.

[Hurlshort]

Something tells me most of you don't have any idea what's actually in the Patriot Act.

 

Oh, for a second I thought we were going to have an actual discussion, but this statement makes it clear you feel you know more than everyone else. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

Actually I'm only vaguely aware of that law, but my point is so is most everyone else, am I wrong?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ56/pdf/PLAW-107publ56.pdf

[Guard Dog]

 

 

Racism ... hatred of government ... they're the same

Wait a minute here. I've read this three times and I want to make sure I am getting your meaning. Are you actually suggesting that distrust (hatred in your words) of government is the same as racism? Or is somehow rooted in racism? If so that is the most appallingly stupid thing I've ever seen posted here. And considering the folks who post here, that is saying a lot.

 

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding what you are driving at. If so, my apologies.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Guard Dog

[Valsuelm]

What was wrong with Teddy Roosevelt? Didn't he kill a grizzly bear with his bare hands?

 

Good question, and not an easy one to answer. The reasons Teddy was bad are not as obvious as the reasons his cousin or many others are bad, and require a lot of knowledge about the times and 19th/early 20th century politics in general both in the U.S. and abroad. It would take me a long time (probably the equivalent of 3 semesters worth of U.S. history classes focusing on those times) to fully explain why and I just don't have that time.

 

In very short however, Teddy was in the pocket of the bankers on a level never before seen up to that time for anyone sitting in the White House (he was VP first, and became President on McKinley's assassination, supposedly by a lone acting anarchist ('anarchists' were often the scapegoats of their day like 'terrorists' are today, and 'revolutionaries' were before them)) in particular J.P. Morgan who was essentially either in league with various European oligarchs (particularly the English branch of the Rotschilds) or basically their U.S. agent depending on how you look at it and when. McKinley's death was extremely convenient for the bankers who wanted to bring the U.S. into the central banking fold, and even more convenient was who his replacement was. As Teddy was largely a yes man for them, a Presidential yes man.

 

Teddy's story and why he's bad spans 3+ decades of U.S. history (European history to an extent as well), sees him being a key figure both purposefully and probably just as a pawn in seeing the U.S. transform from what it was into a both a fully fledged imperial power and brought under the thumb of the British central bankers (in league with some newly minted U.S. oligarchs such as Rockefeller), and culminates in him paving the way at JP's behest in getting Wilson elected (Taft wasn't the puppet to the bankers that Wilson/Roosevelt was).

 

Both Wilson and Teddy were puppets, both were very different people, but both were full of themselves. Teddy was an ego-maniac of near unparallelled level in U.S.history, and though I wouldn't say anyone who's ever been president is dumb, Teddy is probably the least mentally gifted of any we've ever had (he was still smarter than your average Joe though), and probably the most susceptible to manipulation due in part to that ego. And that manipulation came at a key time in U.S./world history. Though Wilson gave us the corrupt central banking system we have along with it's symbiotic parasitic income tax, and The Great War (WW1), Teddy paved the way for all of this like no other President, Wilson just sealed the deal. Serving the U.S. up to the very interests we fought a revolutionary war to escape, and we went on to fight two world wars and a whole bunch of others since for those interests.Though I do believe both of them did it largely unintentionally, as I said, they were puppets.

 

U.S. history, and world history is not as simple or black and white as folks are taught in high school and even most college courses. It's made up of a great many interrelated things, some of which span centuries in scope, and much of which is almost never mentioned in textbooks. Some of those old scopes having direct and real impact on today's world. The majority of the U.S.'s current troubles can be traced back to the early 20th century though, to the time of Teddy, Wilson, et al. But really, this may not make much sense if you aren't very knowledgeable in history.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Racism ... hatred of government ... they're the same

Wait a minute here. I've read this three times and I want to make sure I am getting your meaning. Are you actually suggesting that distrust (hatred in your words) of government is the same as racism? Or is somehow rooted in racism? If so that is the most appallingly stupid thing I've ever seen posted here. And considering the folks who post here, that is saying a lot.

 

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding what you are driving at. If so, my apologies.

 

 

Personally I think that some of the dislike of Obama is not really based on his policies but on the fact he is black and how some people resent the fact they see there interpretation of what defines the USA as changing. I'm not saying this is why you dislike Obama as you have given your reasons in the past and they are not based on his race. But surly you can't deny that some of the criticism of Obama  are really about racial perspective?

[Valsuelm]

So I clicked on Valsuelm's link...

 

 

Let's just say I really nailed it when I mentioned Reagan's negative effect on mental health care.

 

 

Oh? So you're insinuating I'm crazy? What's wrong with the link? Obviously you didn't realize what it was if you're making that insinuation. Either that or you're a extra special level of brainwashed to have such a knee jerk reaction to what I linked. I'll give you the option to check again. I'll agree the website could be better designed, but the information I linked is anything but crazy. It's one of the best books I've ever read (and I read a lot) for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is it's enlightening on a level that most are not, especially if you know your history, and have done research yourself on some of the subjects the author touches on.

 

If I recall right you're a teacher aren't you? Forgive me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall you saying such sometime ago. If there was ever a book you should read as a teacher or as a parent if you have kids in the public school system in the U.S., Europe, or any other nation that has a schooling model based on theirs (which is most at this point), the book I linked or possibly another one by the same author is one that should be read. The author, John Taylor Gatto, was kind enough to put the book I linked on his website for free. If you don't know who he is, I suggest you look him up, and then read his book either on the website or order a copy.

 

Also, putting aside the innumerable things wrong with the 'mental health care' system in our nation, what gives the Federal government Constitutional authority to say or do anything at all in regards to 'mental health'?

[Valsuelm]

I'd like to see how self-righteous you'll both be after the next terrorist attack.

 

How are they being self-righteous for calling for the repeal of legislation that is unconstitutional and downright evil?

 

Can you point to a single instance of that legislation preventing a terrorist attack? The Federal government cannot.

 

And even if it could, what's the point of fighting wars for freedom if at the end of the day you have none? Haven't the terrorists as they are advertised on TV who supposedly hate our freedom won if we legislate our freedoms away?