Playstation 4 version ?

[Jarmo]

The amount of hate here is intriguing.

I'd understand it if it was about delaying or changing the PC version, but apparently it's the satan even if console developement was given to a third party and took absolutely nothing away from the PC version. Because it would. Because it would. Because it's the satan.

 

Anyway, took a brief google to see about developement costs, which seem to be tiny

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/4553842/so-how-much-does-it-cost-to-develop-for-playstation-4

 

and about keyboard & mouse support, which seems to be possible

http://kotaku.com/surprisingly-one-ps4-game-supports-mouse-and-keyboard-1462525553

 

Add to that, both PS4 and XBone are pretty much standard, or upper end PC hardware (because the standard, which PE is going to aim is the 2-core laptop with intel graphics).

 

Whatever, I'm getting the PC version so it's no big deal to me.

The amount of hate is still stunningly high.

[Tale]

We didn't fund it for a PS4 version. And I think a good number of the backers would consider it widely inappropriate if the funding they pledged went into producing a PS4 version.

 

Project Eternity isn't being designed as a game that supports mouse and keyboard. It's being designed as a game that mandates mouse and keyboard. Any efforts to support other input devices are, in my opinion, to be strongly fought against. There's too many concessions required to make it function. And a PS4 game with mandatory mouse and keyboard isn't going to end up being well received by those who are looking to play from the console, anyway.

[Technatorium]

 

 

Just no. Close the thread, please.

you have made 2  posts in your life here and of them is the one above.

just shows your level of intelligence.

if everybody had a closed mind drone mentality where we would be in this world....

 

 

Making posts about other posters intelligence shows your int....  Argh! My brain!

 

"Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes!"

 

On a serious note, I don't mind console conversions. Do I expect one any time soon? No. But if they do one I am all for it. More people to play Obsidian's latest creation.

[firstarioch]

We didn't fund it for a PS4 version. And I think a good number of the backers would consider it widely inappropriate if the funding they pledged went into producing a PS4 version.

 

Project Eternity isn't being designed as a game that supports mouse and keyboard. It's being designed as a game that mandates mouse and keyboard. Any efforts to support other input devices are, in my opinion, to be strongly fought against. There's too many concessions required to make it function. And a PS4 game with mandatory mouse and keyboard isn't going to end up being well received by those who are looking to play from the console, anyway.

I disagree. You speak like you can predict the future and deem it so. Time are changing and have changed. All mediums have converged and all in the process of doing so. Console people understand mouse and keyboard they are not retards you know. Sure you have some who wont but fools will always be fools no matter what. What unites us all is love of videogames . If I have a choice of picking pc version of a game or console I will take console almost everytime. Its the ease of use.

 

also if not for consoles, videogame business would be "out of business long time ago" . PC gaming is and was 95 percent pirated. To make those massive games costs money. you could never recoup that through pc sales. PC people scoff at console games or gamers but if not for them and that side for last 20 years there would be no pc games or such a rapid advance of cheap technology. There simply would not be enough revenue returns.

I believe there is a market for it. Many people are simply put off by building pcs . They dont get it. Its sounds and looks cumbersome . they just want to plug and play. Why do you want to not to include them into this ? when a port would be super cheap and accessible to many many more. That would make more revenue for the makers as they can self publish and create even a better bigger game in the future ?

Fail to see your logic in dismissing it like that.

Edited December 11, 2013 by firstarioch

[Azrael Ultima]

 

Well I hope it will come into fruition. times are changing and have changed I hope someone will see the light and decides that its a good idea.  I appreciate your comment and your civilised reply.

 

I doubt it. You should think less about the missed opportunities and more about the limitations a console conversion would have to impart on the game.

It also seems that you significantly underestimate the amount of work and money required to do so at this stage of development.

It wouldn't just need a new control scheme, but the entire game was made under the assumption that you have both the control options, interests and time limits of a typical PC player, not those of a console player. You might have to retool the entire game simply to make it work.

[Tale]

I disagree. You speak like you can predict the future and deem it so. Time are changing and have changed. All mediums have converged and all in the process of doing so. Console people understand mouse and keyboard they are not retards you know.

I play on consoles. I, and everyone else I know, don't have their consoles hooked up in a way where using a keyboard is all that feasible. We use them in living rooms and off couches. Not at desks.

 

Why do you want to not to include them into this ?

Because we, the backers, paid for a PC game. If Obsidian wants to, after the game is done, try and make a PS4 port that mandates mouse and keyboard with no controller concessions without using backer money, I have no complaint. I just don't think it'll be a wise investment for them.

[Darkpriest]

if you will have keyboard and mouse to play it and cover or the payments that are required to get it validated for PS4, then maybe it would be something to look upon, but I doubt PS4 crowd would like to see a game of this type en mass :D

 

I might be wrong though, seeing how XCOM did well on consoles

[MReed]

Just to reiterate what everyone else is saying:  I funded a PC game, and ONLY a PC game.  I would consider it a betrayal of the promises made to the backers for Obsidian to even consider releasing this game on consoles prior to the release on the PC -- and even if afterwords, I would strongly prefer that a console version not be developed for this game.

 

Why?

 

Two factors:

 

1) For every PC gamer (or PC & console gamers), there are at least 2, if not 3 or 4 "console-only" gamers.

2) Console-only gamers have different preferences than PC gamers -- in terms of UI, text v. voice-overs, mechanics, and many other elements.

 

Therefore, assuming the game is even a moderate success after a console release, console gamers will outnumber PC games by 2 or 3 to 1 -- and future games will quite likely reflect their preferences.  If you doubt this, take a look at DAO -> DA2 or ME1 -> ME2:  the first game in both series catered to PC preferences -- the second game shows a distinct movement towards the preferences of console players.

 

Now, there is nothing wrong with enjoying games on consoles or the preferences that console-only players have when it comes to their games.  But those aren't /my/ preferences, and, to be blunt, I'm selfish enough to say outright "I want a game that caters to my preferences".  The only way that I can imagine to do this is to ensure that console-only users never have the opportunity to play the game, and if a few "PC & console users who would be quite happy with a PC game ported as is on a console" are going to be disappointed...  <shrug>

[firstarioch]

I just think especially nowadays when everything changed and advanced so much it just requires a little bit of thinking outside the box. Less pigeon holeing people or specific type of games and more of a : lets do it , make it work and see what happens. 

It might be even interesting idea to bring the game back to Kickstarter just to to see if people would pay for a console port. also the way these big companies like Sony are courting now small devs etc , who knows maybe if someone would pitch the idea to them they would pay for it....there are many possibilites now. 

I just think that segregating things is not very good. I think now especially when new systems have power and connectivity neccessry to be on on par to open pc platfrom its an excellent opportunity to expand and bring something new to people who maybe 6 or 7 yeara ago would not even think aboutn it twice.

Many of mu friends just like me have wives and families now and are into gaming still but they dont want to buy into PCs anymore. That is past them. They prefer console stramlined experience. Cnsidering that average age of gamer in USA for example is 34 or 35 we can assume that these people would dive into a game that reminds them of games of yesteryear which they used to play in the past. 

Just my thoughts.

[Azzy]

The issue with consoles is the control method and UI, assuming they are spending zero time on making the game gamepad compliant and while a console may support keyboard and mouse the majority won't have or won't want it. The other point would be the game being text heavy the UI would need to be customised for the TV to maintain usability. Like the vast majority of things the requirements and changes needed to support stuff is far more tricky than just getting Unity to spit out a compatible binary.

[SophosTheWise]

Nobody here thinks, that a console port is inherently bad.

 

The problem is that the port costs money that this is a Kickstarter project and not some AAA title. It was funded by people who wanted to pledge for the advertised product. The advertised product was a PC game. Now, nobody would be mad just because it's going to be ported, no of course not. People are going to be mad because a good chunk of the money is not going towards actual development. And that's what backers paid for, not a port. 

 

Also, if they really wanted to do a console port they probably had to find a publishing deal which basically means they would have to redo the entire UI and control scheme. It's nice that the PS4 has a native support vor KB&M, but the gamepad is the default device and has to be supported as such. That's not going to work if they don't completely do the whole control scheme. Sure, they could just not redo anything but that won't give them a publishing deal and it would, as sure as hell, give them a bad reputation because it's a bad port.

[Xienzi]

@firstarioach

 

You're one helluva wide-eyed idealist. Good man. However, I have to say like so many others before me, that while a PS4 port isn't impossible, it most likely just won't happen.

[MReed]

firstarioch, my objection to a console port has nothing at all to do with the technical limits imposed by consoles, only to do with the game-style preferences of these players.

 

Look, perhaps an anology would help you to understand: 

 

95% of what I read today is fantasy of one description or another.  Other people read exclusively historical romance novels, or spy thrillers, or hard sci-fi, or whatever, and that's fine -- different people, different strokes, whatever works for you is good.  You seem to be arguing that this market segregation is somehow bad, and what the world really needs is to convince people who prefer fantasy novels that historical romances are good by erasing the differences between the genres.  I'd oppose such an effort for the same reason that I oppose porting this game to consoles -- it is a GOOD thing to have different books cater to different preferences, as that allows EVERYONE the opportunity to have their preferences catered to (sometimes).

[firstarioch]

I genuinely came here to engage people in a conversation about  it. Im not a troll. I always hated exclusivity and titles bonded to one particular medium. Hence I have so many systems in my house as I love these games and cant see myself playing them on emulators. Its simply not the same experience.

that is a reason I advocate for more exposure for this type of game on other formats that perhaps will warrant more games like this in the future.

I know that Sony allows for cross play. Why not grab the bull by the horns and make this game widespread. Wont hurt nooone and make few pennys more to invest more into a sequel.

[Tale]

Wont hurt nooone and make few pennys more to invest more into a sequel.

If you're not willing to acknowledge the complications or drawbacks, how can there be a discussion?

[BruceVC]

We didn't fund it for a PS4 version. And I think a good number of the backers would consider it widely inappropriate if the funding they pledged went into producing a PS4 version.

 

Project Eternity isn't being designed as a game that supports mouse and keyboard. It's being designed as a game that mandates mouse and keyboard. Any efforts to support other input devices are, in my opinion, to be strongly fought against. There's too many concessions required to make it function. And a PS4 game with mandatory mouse and keyboard isn't going to end up being well received by those who are looking to play from the console, anyway.

 

Tale for president !!! Tale for president !!!

 

 

[Dayen]

Jesus . I actually thought I can have a normal convo here not some PC elitist crap chat on the level of 5 year old child mentality.

 

Bemused that its not been considered that is all. I think Obsidian is missing a chance here. Considering uniformity of console platforms and penetration of their user base.

 

We can, it's simply a conversation that has already occurred. Often enough that people are now being short about it. Perhaps Obsidian will port the game over to consoles when Unity's framework for the new ones is robust enough to support it, but the Infinity Engine-style games never really turned out well on consoles in the past.

 

Managing multiple characters in real-time, even RTWP, requires AI scripting robust enough that you can leave the character alone and know it isn't, for example, going to cast cure critical wounds on someone who is down 2 hit points.

 

I own a console and I'm perfectly satisfied with it for the purpose of playing games that benefit from a controller scheme, but Pillars of Eternity isn't going to be one of those games any time soon.

 

In short, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[MReed]

In your opinion, releasing this game on console won't hurt anyone -- but there are plenty of people in this thread who strongly disagree with that statement (including myself, obviously). 

 

I'm certainly not aware of any evidence that there is a large market for "PC-style, keyboard and mouse" games on consoles, and it should be observed that the PS4 is far from the first console that includes support for an optional keyboard, yet nobody has ever developed a game that requires the use of such an input device.  Hmmmm....  Perhaps that indicates that people who play games on consoles expect their games to abide by their preferences?

[Sensuki]

Nobody here thinks, that a console port is inherently bad.

 

I do

[SophosTheWise]

 

Nobody here thinks, that a console port is inherently bad.

 

I do

 

 

Sorry, I forgot you and the other Codexers.

[Technatorium]

 

I disagree. You speak like you can predict the future and deem it so. Time are changing and have changed. All mediums have converged and all in the process of doing so. Console people understand mouse and keyboard they are not retards you know.

I play on consoles. I, and everyone else I know, don't have their consoles hooked up in a way where using a keyboard is all that feasible. We use them in living rooms and off couches. Not at desks.

 

Why do you want to not to include them into this ?

Because we, the backers, paid for a PC game. If Obsidian wants to, after the game is done, try and make a PS4 port that mandates mouse and keyboard with no controller concessions without using backer money, I have no complaint. I just don't think it'll be a wise investment for them.

 

 

As an example with my PS3, I can hook a wireless keyboard and mouse to it. I can get one of those folding endtables and set it next to my bed if I wanted to use it or I can just use it sitting on my bed. Pretty easy and straightforward.

 

I don't know if this is possible with the PS4 but I hope they might support it eventually if it isn't.

 

Anyways, like with other PC Kickstarter games (first and foremost) I prefer if they are finished first on the PC before any true porting to a console occurs.

 

The way most games seem done nowadays is build it to fit a console first then "port" it to PCs. Even though it was created on a PC.

[LadyCrimson]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - what I want is for this game to be designed, from the ground up, with the KB/mouse potentials in mind. Example: I want an inventory system that isn't about scrolling down some long list. That inventory system games like Borderlands, Skyrim, etc. tend to use? Do not want and I sure hope P.E. won't have it.

 

At any rate, once the game is made, if Obsidian then wants to take a look and try to recreate/redesign some control designs to port it to a console/controller friendly version, that's well and fine. But I don't want a game that tries to cater to both types of control/UI demands and ends up being some kind of ugly mashup that isn't ideal for either and thus pleases no one very much.

 

As others have said, one of the aspects of the Kickstarter was that they wanted to create a PC game, without having to think about the constraints of console limits/requirements/legal stuff and it's extremely unlikely they'd suddenly change their stance for P.E. and decide to design the game for consoles for its initial release, let alone for the next generation of consoles.

[Nerix]

I think there are solid arguments on both sides.

 

Probably most of you could agree on this short summary:

 

- it is absolutely clear, that PoE should only be build with the PC in mind and should be released first on PC - that´s what was advertised and the backers paid for

 

- After that, Obsidian could think about rebuilding the UI and control scheme; if they come to the conclusion that that could work, they should go for a console version (so that as many gamers as possible have access to that promising game).

For that version they must not use the money from the first funding process - they should look for a publisher or fund it by themselves (probably depends on the amount of work)

 

- Regarding the control scheme: it is right, that the PS4 supports K+M. But it is unrealistic to expect, that there will be a KM-only game on consoles. There is no market for that and I would guess, that it is mandatory for every console game to support the gamepad.

So basically the whole idea of a console version of PoE stands and falls with the possibility to control the game in a not too dumbed down way with the controller. I can´t say if that is possible or not, as I don´t know the control scheme well enough.

All I can say is, that I was positively surprised how Blizzard handled it with Diablo 3 (but obviously that´s a different genre, so I don´t know if you could translate that to PoE).

 

p.s. I am not a native english speaker, so bear with me

[skeet70]

firstarioch, my objection to a console port has nothing at all to do with the technical limits imposed by consoles, only to do with the game-style preferences of these players.

 

Look, perhaps an anology would help you to understand: 

 

95% of what I read today is fantasy of one description or another.  Other people read exclusively historical romance novels, or spy thrillers, or hard sci-fi, or whatever, and that's fine -- different people, different strokes, whatever works for you is good.  You seem to be arguing that this market segregation is somehow bad, and what the world really needs is to convince people who prefer fantasy novels that historical romances are good by erasing the differences between the genres.  I'd oppose such an effort for the same reason that I oppose porting this game to consoles -- it is a GOOD thing to have different books cater to different preferences, as that allows EVERYONE the opportunity to have their preferences catered to (sometimes).

 

This is an incredibly off base analogy. Everyone in this thread explicitly against a console port (not including those who don't mind if it happens after release) seems to be operating under the assumption that console gamers are somehow inherently different gamers with drastically different tastes. This simply isn't true. On admittedly anecdotal evidence, I'm the president of a 200+ member gaming club at my college campus. Of those maybe 100 of them are exclusively PC gamers,  75 play on both console and PC, and 25 play exclusively consoles. The preferences of those who play exclusively on consoles are dictated by the console market, but most would love to see something like PE on console.

 

Someone above made the argument that console gamers were responsible for the dumbing down from DA:O to DA2 and ME1 to ME2. That is also not true. Everyone who played DAO on console loved it, and hated DA2 (even on console), just like PC gamers. DA2 was not a reflection of console gamers effect on the franchise. If anything, look at The Elder Scrolls popularity as an example of console gamers responding to good RPGs in the same way that PC gamers do.

 

Back to your analogy. It would be more accurate to say that you read fantasy, and other people prefer other genres. You happen to read your fantasy novels in paperback from, and you love it. Other people with e-readers also love fantasy, and they happen to read them on their e-readers. The recognition of a good book or your preference for genres doesn't suddenly shift solely because you're using a different medium to consume the subject matter. You both still equally recognize a good book (and crave more of them) no matter what platform you use to read it.

 

With consoles now having the same architecture as PC and PE being a real-time with pause game at it's core, as well as being developed with Unity (which will/does support PS4/Xbox One), there really isn't anything stopping them from porting the game. If there isn't controller support it would require very minimal investment in time from them. If they chose to include controller support it still wouldn't be too bad, since PE is RTWP the complexity can be easily mitigated on a controller (DAO was a dream in this regard).

 

Personally I would prefer that they don't port it to consoles until after release, but I see absolutely no reason why they shouldn't then port it if they choose.

Edited December 11, 2013 by skeet70

[teknoman2]

I was wondering have you considered ps4 version of this?

 

The system is powerful , it's easy to port games annd it supports mouse and keyboard use natively .

 

Warthunder does it and also uses the same servers for pc and ps4 gamers .

Finally convergance of mediums is happening and consoles gamers and pc gamers are playing together / against each other .

I think it would be great to make it on ps4. It would widened the audiemce for the game and make more money.

there are a lot of difficulties when it comes to porting a game to consoles. the game itself uses a light engine and is mostly 2D so hardware is not an issue. however to make a port you need the licence for the console BIOS and OS, the agreement of sony or ms to make the game, you need to follow the console maker's pricing policy, and you need to adapt the controls and UI to fit the pad, because let's be honest here, who would plug a m&k on a PS4 to play a game? if you want m&k controls you just play it on pc... the console's main point is to sit back and relax with a controler