What about sorcerers

[morrow1nd]

Hi guys,

 

I was wondering if there will be a sorcerer class at all ?

 

İf no sorcerer class then do we have the chance to build our wizard like a sorcerer ?

Edited November 10, 2013 by morrow1nd

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Not in the base game, maybe in the expansion. I don't think you can build a wizard like a sorcerer, but I could very well be wrong on that front.

[rjshae]

The Chanter class seems somewhat Sorcerous/Bardic in nature, at least in terms of not requiring a spell book.

[Prometheus]

What do you mean with a sorcerer? The main difference was that you doesn't need to prepare a spell as a sorcerer. And in P:E no class needs to prepare spells in advance. see quote below:
 

Priests, druids, and wizards all effectively have "sorcerer-style" cast X of Y level per-rest or per-encounter.

Or do you mean the lore?

[forgottenlor]

I expect mechanically the wizard will be more like a D&D Sorcerer, than a D&D wizard. There were a lot of spells in D&D that were fun in a pen & paper game, but very hard to implement well in a computer game. Still, game designers tried to implement in some form or another, and many of them were subpar. I expect to see fewer, but better balanced spells in P:E. 

[rjshae]

I hope we see a variety of racial-specific talents, particularly of the spell-casting variety. Seeing significant differences in how the races play the same class adds a sense of distinctiveness.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Wasn't the sorcerer class in D&D basically an admission that the Vancian magic system wasn't all that great?

 

Anyway, it's already been stated that the wizards in this game will have some sorcerer-like characteristics (being able to cast certain spells without preparation or a spellbook).

Edited November 12, 2013 by Quetzalcoatl

[Lephys]

Anyway, it's already been stated that the wizards in this game will have some sorcerer-like characteristics (being able to cast certain spells without preparation or a spellbook).

 

Without preparation, yes. Without a spellbook? I dunno about that. It's possible the at-will (infini-cast) spells will not require a book, I suppose, or something along those lines... But, I'm pretty sure the Wizard's entire spell system, for the most part, is based around the use of equipped grimoires (almost so that they are the magical, functional equivalent of an equipped weapon).

 

If spells were lasers, the grimoire would be the lens that focuses the Wizard's light to produce them.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Lephys

[Gyges]

Thankfully, this game isn't based on D&D in any way. I'd rather have them do their own thing.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Gyges

[Guest 4ward]

i'm new here but didn't want to open a new thread.

Just would like to add that the sorcerer in BG2 was the most fun spellcaster to play. He did have to pick fewer spells from the available spells but once you knew which spells worked better or which you'd prefer the sorcerer was allowed to cast the chosen spells more times than the usual spellcaster (think of spells like 'skull trap' or later 'project image'). I felt that the sorcerer was always very active and fun to play in battle. So that's how i hope in this game spellcasters will be.

[PrimeJunta]

I think you'll like the P:E wizard. It combines the best parts of D&D wizard and D&D sorcerer. You can learn all the spells you like and put them in your spellbook like a wizard, but then you pick a selection for your grimoire, and cast from those like a sorcerer. You can (eventually) have several grimoires with different selections and switch between them. I really like what Josh did with the wizard.

[rjshae]

i'm new here but didn't want to open a new thread.

Just would like to add that the sorcerer in BG2 was the most fun spellcaster to play. He did have to pick fewer spells from the available spells but once you knew which spells worked better or which you'd prefer the sorcerer was allowed to cast the chosen spells more times than the usual spellcaster (think of spells like 'skull trap' or later 'project image'). I felt that the sorcerer was always very active and fun to play in battle. So that's how i hope in this game spellcasters will be.

 

To me that was a problem in design: if the game encourages 20% of the Wizard spells to be cast 80% of the time, then Sorcerer becomes a better character than Wizard through a form of min-maxing.

[PrimeJunta]

Also because of the extremely limited possibility to unlearn spells, and because the spell selection was so enormously variable in utility, there was a real risk of gimping your character through lack of foreknowledge.

 

Sorcs were lots of fun on second, third, and further playthroughs when you already knew what the spells did and could make informed choices. If you were going by the descriptions alone, not so much.

[Azrael Ultima]

Thankfully, this game isn't based on D&D in any way. I'd rather have them do their own thing.

Yeah, the question doesn't make a whole lot of sense. This game is intended to evoke the look and feel of the IE based games, not the AD&D ruleset.

[Ganrich]

Wizard is an amalgamation of D&D's Sorcerer and Wizard. Their grimoire limits them, but they can cast any spells (as many times as they like) from it like a sorcerer giving them more freedom than wizards of D&D.

 

While Chanters and Ciphers get limited spell selection from a larger pool just like the sorcerer/bard in D&D. By level 5 they can only access 3-4 spells from a list of 8 or so level 1 spells(invocations or whatever they are called).

[DarkWanderer]

What about the spellbooks? I heard that we can obtain/buy several during a game and each one contain specific numbers of spell slots. How does it look in the combat/gameplay perspective? Lets say our wizard has 3 spellbooks/grimuars in his posession and he (we) put in each diffrent combinations of spells - will it be possible to change the spellbook during a fight e.g.  if we run out of spell uses or if we want to use a spell which isn't in our current spellbook? Or am I wrong/ill-informed and there is just one spellbook per character.

And @Ganrich - maybe I am wrong - but i think you will only be able to cast as many times as you like at the high levels and only low level spells - medium/high level spells will have certain number of casts per rest/fight.

[nadarthechaotic]

I'm confused about the WIzards spell limits and usage -  above posters state that wizards  can cast spells 'as many times per day as they want', while the wiki suggsts otherwise:

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Wizard

 

"...Wizards can cast a fixed number of 1st level spells before they need to rest to recover the spells. They can cast any combination of their known spells up to that fixed limit...." and the table shows at 1st level 2 (yes, 2!!!) spells are all you can cast before you have to rest. And they discourage restiing with their health and camping supplies hack. If they mean something else, the wiki is really poorly worded.  It may be that Arcane Veil and Blast can be used as many times as you want, but that would reduce a wizard to a blasting role after their 1st encounter...which seems dull. Is the Wiki wrong?  If this is not the correct description of the wizard class, where could I find it?

[Gfted1]

Wizard is an amalgamation of D&D's Sorcerer and Wizard. Their grimoire limits them, but they can cast any spells (as many times as they like) from it like a sorcerer giving them more freedom than wizards of D&D.

Some low level spells will eventually become "at will" but the vast majority are "per encounter" or "per rest". No unlimited casting for you!

[Ganrich]

 

Wizard is an amalgamation of D&D's Sorcerer and Wizard. Their grimoire limits them, but they can cast any spells (as many times as they like) from it like a sorcerer giving them more freedom than wizards of D&D.

Some low level spells will eventually become "at will" but the vast majority are "per encounter" or "per rest". No unlimited casting for you!

Yeah, I worded that poorly. You get casts per day, like the sorceror, of any combination of spells in you grimoire. You can select a certain number of spells for the grimoire (Most at a time I have seen is 4). Eventually lower level spells become per encounter instead of per rest. I wasn't aware of any becoming at will though.

[Doppelschwert]

I don't know if at will powers are still a thing in PoE. In the level range of the beta, they are not available, but josh announced them some time before the beta in an interview / on the forums, can't remember.

[nadarthechaotic]

 

 

Wizard is an amalgamation of D&D's Sorcerer and Wizard. Their grimoire limits them, but they can cast any spells (as many times as they like) from it like a sorcerer giving them more freedom than wizards of D&D.

Some low level spells will eventually become "at will" but the vast majority are "per encounter" or "per rest". No unlimited casting for you!

Yeah, I worded that poorly. You get casts per day, like the sorceror, of any combination of spells in you grimoire. You can select a certain number of spells for the grimoire (Most at a time I have seen is 4). Eventually lower level spells become per encounter instead of per rest. I wasn't aware of any becoming at will though.

 

Good to know - but where is this documented? The Wiki says little...certainly people here seem to know more than the info reported there, which is frustrating. Do you get bonus spells per day/rest based on stats (like you did in D&D)? How are you rewarded for high (pertinent) stats when you're a wizard?

[Marceror]

I don't know if at will powers are still a thing in PoE. In the level range of the beta, they are not available, but josh announced them some time before the beta in an interview / on the forums, can't remember.

I think it was one of the Kickstarter updates, and I believe it that it was just an idea, not confirmed.

 

For some reason I thought it was Tim who said it, but could be wrong. Could have been both of them.

[rjshae]

They could always add something that takes up on of your equipment slots--spend a per-rest spell to activate the item, then use the slotted 'at will' spell.

[Marceror]

So what happens when you use a forth level spell slot to learn a first level spell natively? Does that spell become once per rest. Once per encounter? Twice per encounter...?

 

I always go for the fourth level spell.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

Wizard is an amalgamation of D&D's Sorcerer and Wizard. Their grimoire limits them, but they can cast any spells (as many times as they like) from it like a sorcerer giving them more freedom than wizards of D&D.

Some low level spells will eventually become "at will" but the vast majority are "per encounter" or "per rest". No unlimited casting for you!

Yeah, I worded that poorly. You get casts per day, like the sorceror, of any combination of spells in you grimoire. You can select a certain number of spells for the grimoire (Most at a time I have seen is 4). Eventually lower level spells become per encounter instead of per rest. I wasn't aware of any becoming at will though.

 

Good to know - but where is this documented? The Wiki says little...certainly people here seem to know more than the info reported there, which is frustrating. Do you get bonus spells per day/rest based on stats (like you did in D&D)? How are you rewarded for high (pertinent) stats when you're a wizard?

 

 

You don't get bonus spell because of your attributes. Only reward that you get from high attributes is higher attribute bonus, which will boost your wizards certain spells (adding their damage, making their effect last longer or increasing area that they effect or with right combination all three) or wizards overall ability to cast spells (giving wizard to hit better with their spells or cast them faster) or wizards ability to take hits (giving wizard more hit and endurance points, increasing wizards defensive values, making hits miss and graze more, lessen change that wizards spell casting will be interrupted).

 

There is no pertinent attributes for wizard, only attributes that are better for one playstyle than another.