Random loot or fixed drops from certain mobs?

[Qiox]

Has there been any official word on the randomization of loot?

 

I really enjoy replaying BG2 and games like that, but always knowing who drops what items is something I've always considered a negative.

 

I wonder what approach will be taken with this game.

[Gfted1]

I believe the loot will be hand placed (not randomly generated or placed).

[Lephys]

Yup yup. So you shouldn't just so HAPPEN upon a dock rat with a jewel-encrusted magic sword strapped to its back.

 

Although, I do like it when, very rarely, you slay some manner of wild beast, and you find a handful of coins, or a ring, in its innards. Maybe 1 in a 100. Or on some "Find Fred" quest, where you have to figure out that Fred is now cougar food, using actual clues and deductive reasoning rather than simply finding "Fred's super-noteworthy tatooed shoulder skin patch" as a quest item.

[Prometheus]

for valuable loot hand placed and lightly randomized for other loot. see quote below.

 

The majority of valuable loot will be hand-placed. The "lesser" value loot is lightly randomized. The exception to the high-value stuff will be unique items that are only discovered through the stronghold's event system. These will likely be "redundant" items so players don't have to worry about finding a good version of X base weapon or Y base armor. E.g. we have a mid-power morning star called The Rose of Salthollow. If a backer winds up making a mid-power morning star, either their weapon or our weapon will appear placed in the world and the other one may appear in the stronghold event system. If no backer makes a mid-power morning star, we're not going to put The Rose of Salthollow in the stronghold system.

[Rsinthis]

Random to some degree. As somebody states, finding a sword/jewel from a rat isnt very likely. But some unique mobs dropping fixed items, sure. But you dont want your typical guys dropping a set amount of gold and the same items everytime. That element of chance/luck makes the loot drop more exciting I believe

[Frenetic Pony]

Hand placed kinda sucks for replayability "Oh, the exact same item I got."

 

It's fairly trivial to create a list of possible loot Monster X or chest Y could have, and then select randomly from that. So dock rot a might get "1-3 gold" and/or "Rat Bones" while awesome boss dragon's loot hoard could contain "5,000-10,000 gold" and "Awesome Magical Sword Y or Super Cool Armor Z or Magic Wand R" and then a random number generator determines which of that possible list of loot actually shows up.

 

It's a pretty simple way to make sure everything has perfectly appropriate loot while still not making it entirely the same loot every time "Oh, it's Scragmaw the troll lord. I get to loot 571 gold and The Bonecrusher club... again, for the third time in a row." Of course, I WOULD actually be in favor of a one in a million chance for that dock rat to have an awesome jewel encrusted sword. Just so those few players that ever find it go "Dude, wait wtf?"

Edited October 17, 2013 by Frenetic Pony

[teknoman2]

if the fixed loot is stuff like "the uber sword of mass murder" or "the armor that protects you from a nuclear explosion" or "the bow that fires cruise missiles", then they may be hand placed, you may know where to find them, but i dont think you could reach them before you get to a level that allows you to survive the place they are in

[Messier-31]

Most of the loot should be fixed from the start, but I think some random elements of captured inventory would be proper for a cRPG.

 

So, if we're talking percentages... maybe 70/30 ? (where 70 stands for fixed, 30 stands for random)

Edited October 17, 2013 by Messier-31

[Lephys]

So, if we're talking percentages... maybe 70/30 ? (where 70 stands for fixed, 30 stands for random)

WHOA whoa whoa... that's HORRIBLY inaccurate. I think it would be more like 70.7/29.3, u_u... Gyah. What are you trying to do, conceptually ruin the game's loot system?!

 

 

Nah, but really, I agree. Since they've said SOME will be hand-placed and SOME will be random, I hope it's a good mix like that. And I'm all for the "we hand-picked the possibility set here, but then the specific item is randomly decided out of that set" method.

[Hassat Hunter]

Sounds like the best of both worlds, yes.

Randomness to add replayability, but still making sure vendor's are useful (think KOTOR1 vs KOTOR2) and tough enemies drop items that are actually useful to you if you kill or defeat them at the intended time for you to meet them.

[AGX-17]

Most of the loot should be fixed from the start, but I think some random elements of captured inventory would be proper for a cRPG.

 

So, if we're talking percentages... maybe 70/30 ? (where 70 stands for fixed, 30 stands for random)

Only if categories of randomized loot are restricted to certain types/classes of enemies. i.e. No rats should ever have a stomach full of coins. The only loot you should ever be able to obtain from animals should be meat, hides, etc. Poor people shouldn't have gilded ornamental swords unless they happen to be a thief who stole it from a noble who hired you to retrieve it.

Edited October 18, 2013 by AGX-17

[jamoecw]

sounds like i won't be running around in a loincloth and a rusty dagger fighting off guys my exact same size wearing full plate and using my favored weapon for the first few levels.  that's a total bummer, next thing you know you aren't going to go from complete novice to elite veteran in a single night while single handedly saving the world by preventing an overly convoluted plan from succeeding by keeping the villain's stalker from stealing the villain's toupee.

 

in all seriousness, i like random, as long as i get what makes sense.  i think those of us old enough to have played the original campaign of NWN1 right after beating BG2.  constantly facing foes that drop 1gp per 5 while using stuff that could have sold for more if you just grabbed the axes and daggers they were using (or used their arrows to restock your own).  random stuff that makes no sense sucks big time.  the other campaigns tended to start you off fighting things that didn't use things against you, so that the loot drops made much more sense.

 

IE games = mix

NWN = random

darklands = fixed

[Adam Brennecke]

As Josh has stated, there's going to be a mix of mostly hand placed items with random items thrown into the mix. The loot system is designed to change loot and random (or non random) drops across the entire game quickly.

[Messier-31]

 

Most of the loot should be fixed from the start, but I think some random elements of captured inventory would be proper for a cRPG.

 

So, if we're talking percentages... maybe 70/30 ? (where 70 stands for fixed, 30 stands for random)

Only if categories of randomized loot are restricted to certain types/classes of enemies. i.e. No rats should ever have a stomach full of coins. The only loot you should ever be able to obtain from animals should be meat, hides, etc. Poor people shouldn't have gilded ornamental swords unless they happen to be a thief who stole it from a noble who hired you to retrieve it.

 

 

Yes! I never thought otherwise 

[Valorian]

As Josh has stated, there's going to be a mix of mostly hand placed items with random items thrown into the mix. The loot system is designed to change loot and random (or non random) drops across the entire game quickly.

 

Does this apply even to equipped items on enemies? For example, would the "Bandit Leader" have his weapon, armor and magical trinkets randomized on each playthrough? I'd prefer not.

 

On the other hand, I have no objection to a bit of randomization for items found in chests and elsewhere, or drops that don't affect the "essence" and combat prowess of the enemy, like randomizing if the enemy will drop a pearl instead of a golden ring.

[Lephys]

Does this apply even to equipped items on enemies? For example, would the "Bandit Leader" have his weapon, armor and magical trinkets randomized on each playthrough? I'd prefer not.

Agreed... although, it might be rather interesting so long as it's properly constrained. You know, almost like the slight variance in a tale passed down by word of mouth. "I heard it was an axe!" "No, it was a greatsword!". If in one playthrough, Grogg the Goblin Lord's weapon was still a notorious weapon, and was still Grogg's Grinder or something, and it specialized in bleed damage, then it could still be a slightly different weapon in each playthrough. I just wouldn't want one playthrough to have him with Grogg's Grinder, and another playthrough to have him with a mere Longsword +1.

[Valorian]

I don't find anything interesting about randomness designing enemies.

[motorizer]

Enemies should drop what they actually have (actually i'd rather they not drop it but it stays on the corpse, someone;'s armour falling off when you kill them is a little bit silly)

loot in other sources could be partly random

Enemies like rats shouldn't drop anything (that's if we are fighting rats yet again...I kind of hope not)

 

A little bit of randomness in the equipment of basic bandits etc...would make the place feel more real than if they had a bandit "uniform"

Edited October 19, 2013 by motorizer

[Valorian]

 

A little bit of randomness in the equipment of basic bandits etc...would make the place feel more real than if they had a bandit "uniform"

 

They should design bandits (and other creatures) to not be just clones of each other, they don't have to leave that to randomness.

Randomness doesn't take into account if the enemy has a talent or ability that favors a certain type of weapon or armor. Also, randomness could drastically change the difficulty of a battle.

[Lephys]

That's why confined randomness is key.

 

Randomness is like seasoning: Just a pinch can do wonders. Maybe "randomness" is technically the wrong word... but... chance-based dynamics? *Shrug*

 

You don't need "this bandit COULD be 17-feet tall and wield the sword of Galgreethus +97, or he COULD be 3-feet tall and wield a rusted wooden stick" to reap the benefits of randomness. A small bit is much easier to manage, AND still makes a huge difference versus absolutely none. Especially when it's supposedly just some random group of (insert creature/foe name here)s you're bumping into, anyway.

 

There's not much to gain from having the game be Groundhog Day, with all your playthroughs producing the exact same encounters with the exact same enemy builds and formations throughout (with the exception of mutually exclusive choice/consequence-based stuff).

 

Besides... who doesn't love surprises?

[motorizer]

I didn't mean completely random, I meant how mount and blade does it, each soldier in that game has random gear picked from a list of items appropriate to both their class and their culture.

you end up with a coherent group of soldiers who are individuals rather than clones.

Skyrim does similar.

[Osvir]

Of course, I WOULD actually be in favor of a one in a million chance for that dock rat to have an awesome jewel encrusted sword. Just so those few players that ever find it go "Dude, wait wtf?"

 

That's not a bad idea. Though, I reckon it would be something to cater to people who like to collect stuff in games and play it to completion 100%+. Oh and Obsidian would have to market it somehow (kind of how the Dark Souls dev was marketing this idea of some Pendant being special, then it turned out it was just a joke, but it did make people play the game much more in search for the answer to the Pendant). Community wise it becomes a "treasure" and the one to find it gets some "platonic" achievement in the community.

 

The Pendant btw.

 

EDIT: An item that maybe has a 1 in a million chance (or more) of being found/dropped. Lottery in the vanilla... or modified to unlock easier~

Edited October 22, 2013 by Osvir

[Messier-31]

 

Of course, I WOULD actually be in favor of a one in a million chance for that dock rat to have an awesome jewel encrusted sword. Just so those few players that ever find it go "Dude, wait wtf?"

 

That's not a bad idea. Though, I reckon it would be something to cater to people who like to collect stuff in games and play it to completion 100%+. (...) EDIT: An item that maybe has a 1 in a million chance (or more) of being found/dropped. Lottery in the vanilla... or modified to unlock easier~

 

Guys, this really isn't such a bad thing - but that sounds like a definition of an easter-egg. This jewel encrusted sword should be just a fancy-shmancy blade for decoration purposes, not a serious damage delaer, if you know what I mean. Put it on your stronghold wall, or sell it for 4x the amount of gold you woulda get from a common sword.

[Hassat Hunter]

As usual, I disagree with Valorian.

 

I would love it if the big baddie didn't have a fixed specicial items, but it could be one of 3 or so. Then each game you can even find new unique special items you never found before in the old game. And if your entire build is focused around finding that Long Sword +5 on that Dragon, well, you're in bad luck if it drops another +5 item instead. Less number-calculating and pre-determining item finds, more flying where the flow brings you and dealing with the punches.

[Lephys]

As usual, I disagree with Valorian.

 

I would love it if the big baddie didn't have a fixed specicial items, but it could be one of 3 or so. Then each game you can even find new unique special items you never found before in the old game. And if your entire build is focused around finding that Long Sword +5 on that Dragon, well, you're in bad luck if it drops another +5 item instead. Less number-calculating and pre-determining item finds, more flying where the flow brings you and dealing with the punches.

Coming in with a goldilocks and the three bears here (too hot, too cold), I think it probably should at least be restricted to a particular type of item, to support the narrative (when it matters). If some troll bandit lord is notorious in the area (in the story), and he's so successful and feared because of some iconic, fearsome weapon he carries with a specific name, I think he should probably always drop a weapon with that name with similar properties (the same general theme, at least), rather than one time he drops some loincloth or something instead of a weapon ("but hey... at least it's still a +5 item! 8D!"). But, yeah, I don't think it's necessary at all to restrict anything to ONLY the same exact item every time.

 

For what it's worth...