What would PE look like if Obsidian catered to the worst of us?

[Lephys]

That's kind of what I meant, in all fairness. You basically praise the design concepts (a facet of "the game"), but condemn the execution. In a way, that's almost 50/50. I don't think the whole game was just plain bad. I just think there was a lot of bad that spoiled the good.

 

Kinda like letting ants infest a big, delicious cake. That doesn't say anything bad about the delicious cake, itself. But it really sucks that you have to consume live ants if you want the cake. And, much like that example, the major problems in the execution were really about as blatantly recognizable as "hey, this cake probably shouldn't have live ants in it."

 

Looking at things like the recent update detailing P:E's production process, and Josh's consistent emphasis on the importance of the pre-production phase, it just seems like games like DA2 spend too little time on such things, and end up frantically trying to wing it when it comes to finishing the design and getting the game out the door.

 

Obviously they didn't sit down in a pre-production meeting and think "Hey, we should probably only design about 10 environments, then just re-use them all! 8D!". But, what bothers me is that a lot of the big companies like them consistently allow such things to crop up. Or, they claim to want to give you choices, but then (like in DA 2) hardly allow anything to really influence/affect any major outcomes or results, because they were too focused on what's going to happen in their story to bother with what kinds of significance your choices can actually have. Or they just ran out of time for both, *shrug*. I have no idea.

 

Whatever it is, I don't know how they can be okay with it. I know part of it is often publishers, who impose certain deadlines and procedures without really exploring what's in the best interest of the creative quality of the game, but... I just don't know. Just seems like their priorities are backwards. "Let's make sure we have an epic voice-acting cast and fantastic visuals, THEN we'll worry about how well the gameplay actually works, u_u... and how much the environments are actually different. You know... IF we have time."

 

Annnnywho. Someone was right when they said this thread wasn't about hating on Bioware. Haha. But, to give relevance? What would P:E look like if it catered to the worst of us? I'd imagine it would have its priorities horribly out of order, and such problems would ensue.

[Hassat Hunter]

DA2 is the Indiana Jones 4 of the RPG.

 

So bad you really REALLY want to forget it, and then learn the makers want to make a sequel and you all go "seriously? SERIOUSLY? What the hell are you people smoking that you want to continue this? Let it die, oh god, let it die!"

[Messier-31]

Let it die, oh god, let it die!"

 

Sometimes it's better to burn out than to fade away

[Ulquiorra]

My worst fear is that this game will be Crappy fusion between Baldours Gate 1, Neverwinter Nights 1(or shadows of undertide) with Neverwinter Nights 2 characters like Elanee and Khelgar and have the same amout of bugs...

 

And don't get me wrong, besides NWN2. All those game where good when they where published. But today they are realy poor, shallow and booring.

 

But on the other hand i dont want copy of diablo with story line like "fight, fight, fight ... hmm why are you fighting ? .. hell ... fight again !!"

 

I also don't understant people that are afraid that this game will evoluved intu Mass effect2- dragon age2- wither2 softcore porn, this is like being affraid that GTA will change to monster catching game like pokemon, seriusly. To much difrencec, no highly advanced 3d graphics and animations so no 3d porn ... sleep well

[IndiraLightfoot]

Baldours Gate 1, Neverwinter Nights 1(or shadows of undertide) with Neverwinter Nights 2.

 

All those game where good when they where published. But today they are realy poor, shallow and booring.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erthun0Pauc

[Mor]

DA2 is the Indiana Jones 4 of the RPG.

 

So bad you really REALLY want to forget it, and then learn the makers want to make a sequel and you all go "seriously? SERIOUSLY? What the hell are you people smoking that you want to continue this? Let it die, oh god, let it die!"

Sometimes I wonder what you guys are smoking, from what I seen DA3 will be a huge success, despite all the ARPG fans that was disappointed by DA2 direction.

 

 

...

I also don't understant people that are afraid that this game will evoluved intu Mass effect2- dragon age2- wither2 softcore porn, this is like being affraid that GTA will change to monster catching game like pokemon, seriusly. To much difrencec, no highly advanced 3d graphics and animations so no 3d porn ... sleep well

I am not certain where you are going with this, but this ship has sailed. Also this game use a 3D engine which can do everything in those titles you mentioned, just instead of first/third person perspective it use fixed-angle camera from isometric perspective. For a party game this perspective is perfect, it also allows to make stunning/unique scenes that games with full 3D and triple the budget can't compete with even if own a little power plant for a GPU.

 

Speaking of stunning/unique scenes that wouldn't work from another perspective reminded me this

Edited November 18, 2013 by Mor

[Chairchucker]

I hate Elminster with a passion.

 

The only thing worse than a drow ranger is an all powerful wizard who won't intervene in worldly events other than to keep said drow ranger alive and in sparkly armour.

 

I think it's time I played through BG again.

 

One of the DnD books had a spiel from Elminster about why he didn't try to overthrow evil.

 

It was not very convincing. It was something along the lines of "Yes maybe I could try to defeat the evil masters of evil, but what if I was unsuccessful, had you thought of that?" Good point beardy, better keep throwing low level heroes at them instead.

[Ulquiorra]

I am not certain where you are going with this, but this ship has sailed. Also this game use a 3D engine which can do everything in those titles you mentioned, just instead of first/third person perspective it use fixed-angle camera from isometric perspective. For a party game this perspective is perfect, it also allows to make stunning/unique scenes that games with full 3D and triple the budget can't compete with even if own a little power plant for a GPU.

 

No it can't

 

The engine is to week to handle high-advanced cut-scenes or animation like in skyrim, mass effect etc. Secondly even if he coud devs allready said that there will be no "movie-like" cut-scenes so good by to advanced sex-scenes.

 

And i personaly do't belive that they whoud add "hipp" moving animation for chcaracters from isometric perspestiv only to create some kind of risemblence to movie like sex-cutscens from mass effect, not only becouse that whoud look awful and silly but also becouse they are agins sexualizing characters in their games ...

 

I personaly don't remember any sex-cutscenes from obsidian stable, only in alpha protocol but even there it was not on mass effect or Witcher 2 level.

[Mor]

^ sorry, I misunderstood the connection between the "shallow and booring" part and the last part of your post. As for this, I agree it's unlikely that we will use the game engine to create cutscenes, but they don't need too, since every engine can load a video. Also I am not huge fan of AAA games sex-cutscenes or how they handle sex(I don't need preachy nipple rubbing emo's trying to get me laid each time I look their way, but I am against exclusion of sex altogether.

[Hassat Hunter]

Wait? Missing sex scenes is a bad thing or a good thing? I'm getting a bit confused which of the 2 you think.

 

Personally it's a GIGANTIC plus for me.

 

And of course it can do cutscenes. And can cutscenes work in isometric. Never played Baldur's Gate II?

Sometimes I wonder what you guys are smoking, from what I seen DA3 will be a huge success, despite all the ARPG fans that was disappointed by DA2 direction.

It's clearly not as efficient and powerful as your stuff...

[Mor]

 

Sometimes I wonder what you guys are smoking, from what I seen DA3 will be a huge success, despite all the ARPG fans that was disappointed by DA2 direction.

It's clearly not as efficient and powerful as your stuff...

 

Reality may not be as intoxicating as fantasy, but it certainly efficient and powerful Here take a look at some DA3 gameplay it improved upon every aspect the ARPG crowd wanted. If after watching it you still think it will be a commercial failure, then we will have to disagree. Bottom line is that despite how passionate we are, what we want and like very rarely manifests in AAA titles, because we are no more than a bump on their target audience map, deal with it :/ Edited November 18, 2013 by Mor

[Hassat Hunter]

Indeed. Reality isn't as intoxicating... Sadly, I am stuck with it, cause I can't live in the fantasy that pastering a brand new top-of-the-line engine automatically makes a good game.

I know there are plenty of gamers who can, but I ain't one of them...

[exodiark]

DA3 gameplay kinda looks like Witcher 2... not so sure how to feel about that.

And is that a warrior wielding a huge sword, wearing heavy armor while casting magic?
I smell yet another Bioware Marty Stu  , but I digress.

[Mungri]

 

Both Blizzard and Bioware are dead to me.

[neo6874]

 

Both Blizzard and Bioware are dead to me.

 

Well seeing as they're owned by Activision and EA respectively, I can't say I'm surprised.

[Gfted1]

You guys know that's from a Easter egg level in the game called Whimsyshire, right?

[Mungri]

Yes. But kung fu panda WoW expansion wasn't just an Easter egg. And its an Easter egg that was purposefully mocking complaints about the game.

[Gfted1]

You're saying Whimsyshire was added after the release of D3, via a patch, solely to mock people?

[Mungri]

The developers said they made it due to all the complaints about the game not being dark enough and too bright and colourful for a Diablo game.

[Gfted1]

But it was added post release? I did not know that.

[Lephys]

But it was added post release? I did not know that.

 

It might've just been post-beta (instead of post-release). A lot of people play Blizzard games in beta for several months before the actual release, so a lot of the "complaints about the game" come from the beta build.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Lephys

[khango]

I'm pretty sure the absolute worst thing they could do is decide to make it turn-based.

[Lephys]

If that's the absolute worst thing you think they could do to the game, I shudder to think of the design decisions you'd be perfectly fine with.

 

Honestly, I agree, though not to the "absolute worst" extent; P:E's design would take much less advantage of turn-based combat than another game, and probably fits a lot better with real-time combat.

[Mungri]

Turn based games are the best games, Civ series, Total War, and Infinity Engine games are the best games ever made in the RPG and Strategy genre.

 

Last I checked, Chess and Monopoly are also turn based, and those are the most popular board games out there. And poker and every other card game.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Mungri

[Mor]

and conviction makes the best zealots