213374U Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Wasn't resting any time you like a key 'feature' of every single IE game? Which brings me to the stated example of BG2. Something like Kangaxx is illustrative enough as a single-encounter segment of content. Exploitative behaviour aside (was it the one you could run in and out of the room without him following you?), you either have the power to beat him, or you don't. You don't partially beat him up, rest, then continue on with the job. And Irenicus' dungeon itself is a good example of a too-long dungeon, it should be balanced so that you finish it without resting, because you shouldn't be able to rest there. The point is whether it's Kangaxx or a Irenicus' Dungeon, each represents a unit of content that, to be remotely believable, should be tackled in one go. It's just that a designer has more freedom in that being optional and off the critical path, it can be tuned to whatever power budget desired as long as that budget can be realistically met while the content is available. Aside, the most absurd example I have of stupid resting mechanics is the last game I played, Might and Magic 10. The final boss was designed around you resting *while* fighting him. A boss that hovers around firing shadowbolts at you while you try to assemble the deus ex machina, but I guess you can ask him to kindly stop shooting for 8 hours while you have a nap. Nope, you could not rest anywhere—some areas outright did not allow resting and others were unsafe to rest in; waking up to a cadre of vampires surrounding your party is no fun. You could go back to a tavern, rest, and come back to confront the boss, which is even more absurd though. I don't remember how respawning mooks worked tbh. As for Kangaxx, I'm not sure he could follow you (I think he could but it's been a long time since I played vanilla)—I was more thinking along the lines of a Protection from Magic scroll rendering the whole encounter irrelevant. But that's not the point; I was addressing the idea that encounters need to consider the player's power level. The whole of Kangaxx's questline disregards this principle and it works. Conversely, it wouldn't work with Irenicus' dungeon because it's the very first instance in the game and you must clear it to proceed. The ability to spend a month napping down there is difficult to justify though, even if you consider the fact that spellcaster <charname> wakes up from torture without spells memorized. Imoen even comments on how insane it is to rest down there, but I'm guessing they chose to make it more forgiving for first-timers. Nothing prevents you from clearing it in one go, though. I have not played any MM games, but that does sound really silly. Edited February 22, 2014 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Gorgon Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Looks terrible. I hope I'm wrong. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Maria Caliban Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Played it on pc, have no issues with it. Not the wheel per say, but the whole game. Also it's counter intuitive for PC players who use the keyboard to select which dialogue they want. It's not a big secret that the dialogue wheel was created to make it easier for console players to select the dialogue. Yes, there are several people here who play on PC and enjoyed DA II. You can use the numpad to select dialogue options. I also find it odd you're suggesting that PC players only use the keyboard as opposed to constantly clicking on small areas with a mouse. 3 "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
BruceVC Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Played it on pc, have no issues with it. Not the wheel per say, but the whole game. Also it's counter intuitive for PC players who use the keyboard to select which dialogue they want. It's not a big secret that the dialogue wheel was created to make it easier for console players to select the dialogue. Yes, there are several people here who play on PC and enjoyed DA II. You can use the numpad to select dialogue options. I also find it odd you're suggesting that PC players only use the keyboard as opposed to constantly clicking on small areas with a mouse. I thought DA2 was a good game, not great but entertaining enough and I played it on PC...as always. The issues I had with it weren't anything to do with the dialogue but the reused dungeons and monsters just appearing out of the air 4 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Serrano Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Double post Edited February 23, 2014 by Serrano
Serrano Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) I thought DA2 was a good game, not great but entertaining enough and I played it on PC...as always. The issues I had with it weren't anything to do with the dialogue but the reused dungeons and monsters just appearing out of the air It's a shame really because they actually had quite a good combat and class system for DA2. Judging from the way combat encounters were handled in the DLC, Exalted March would have likely pleased many people who liked the story and characters but were bogged down by the same old dungeons and enemies. Edited February 23, 2014 by Serrano 2
Noviere Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 I thought DA2 was a good game, not great but entertaining enough and I played it on PC...as always. The issues I had with it weren't anything to do with the dialogue but the reused dungeons and monsters just appearing out of the air Those were my main issues as well... There were others, of course. I found the whole final Act to be rather slapdash -- it feels like there was an entire act cut or something. I really like how the story was told over the span of 7 years, but it felt very artificial because so little in the world actually changed. Your companions continue to wear the same clothing(with the exception of Aveline, IIRC), the city is totally static, etc... Obviously a by-product of the ultra short development cycle, but still a missed opportunity. I also really liked the focus on Hawke and his family vs. saving the entire continent/planet/universe... Though a lot of people hated that, and that Hawke didn't start off as extraordinary. 1
Nepenthe Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Played it on pc, have no issues with it. Not the wheel per say, but the whole game. Also it's counter intuitive for PC players who use the keyboard to select which dialogue they want. It's not a big secret that the dialogue wheel was created to make it easier for console players to select the dialogue. Yes, there are several people here who play on PC and enjoyed DA II. You can use the numpad to select dialogue options. I also find it odd you're suggesting that PC players only use the keyboard as opposed to constantly clicking on small areas with a mouse. I thought DA2 was a good game, not great but entertaining enough and I played it on PC...as always. The issues I had with it weren't anything to do with the dialogue but the reused dungeons and monsters just appearing out of the air I actually thought the mooks dropping down from the walls was an entertaining mechanic and definitely changed the core gameplay of DAO (= use storm of the century whenever you can and scripted ambushes) into something more. They used it too much, though. Really dug the story, it did have issues in the final act, but they seemed to be more related to the short dev cycle than a conceptual failure. 3 You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Bryy Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Played it on pc, have no issues with it. Not the wheel per say, but the whole game. Also it's counter intuitive for PC players who use the keyboard to select which dialogue they want. It's not a big secret that the dialogue wheel was created to make it easier for console players to select the dialogue. Yes, there are several people here who play on PC and enjoyed DA II. You can use the numpad to select dialogue options. I also find it odd you're suggesting that PC players only use the keyboard as opposed to constantly clicking on small areas with a mouse. I thought DA2 was a good game, not great but entertaining enough and I played it on PC...as always. The issues I had with it weren't anything to do with the dialogue but the reused dungeons and monsters just appearing out of the air Yeah, I loved DA2. I still knew its faults and actually talked to some devs at E3 and the like about the adventure that was making the game. But it was a great feat for the small dev cycle they had. Exhalted March is a shame, though. I'm pretty sure it boiled down to "make DA3 or don't make a new game at all at this point".
alanschu Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Exhalted March is a shame, though. I'm pretty sure it boiled down to "make DA3 or don't make a new game at all at this point". No. It was more "we want to move away from old technology and consolidate everyone onto the same tech (early DA3 prototypes were already using Frostbite) and we really like what we've seen with DA3 at this point and are more keen on following up with that than DA2." Keeping us working on DA2XP would just delay us ramping up on Frostbite. Part of the influence of this thought process is likely how meh Awakening's sales were compared to the investment and install base. Couple that with less overall sales of DA2 and it's not hard to see that the XP held higher risks than we would necessarily want.
ShadySands Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Speaking of which when is this coming out? Edited February 24, 2014 by ShadySands Free games updated 3/4/21
Oerwinde Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Hey Alan, all the video we've seen so far has been all up close actiony, with console players saying it looks like a cross of DA2 and DA:O, whereas I've only played PC and it looks nothing like that. Is the up close consoley view the default for both PC and Console, or is the PC version going to be similar to DA:O and DA2? If you know and/or are allowed to say. The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.
alanschu Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) In the PAX videos we show off the tactical camera mode at one point. That'll be refined but it likely won't deviate toooooooooooo much from what you saw there, in terms of camera angles. We'd like to have the entire game be playable in that mode, but there are some challenges with that so I don't want to over commit anything for someone's expectations. Edited February 24, 2014 by alanschu
Bryy Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Exhalted March is a shame, though. I'm pretty sure it boiled down to "make DA3 or don't make a new game at all at this point". No. It was more "we want to move away from old technology and consolidate everyone onto the same tech (early DA3 prototypes were already using Frostbite) and we really like what we've seen with DA3 at this point and are more keen on following up with that than DA2." Keeping us working on DA2XP would just delay us ramping up on Frostbite. Part of the influence of this thought process is likely how meh Awakening's sales were compared to the investment and install base. Couple that with less overall sales of DA2 and it's not hard to see that the XP held higher risks than we would necessarily want. That does make a valid point.
Gorth Posted February 24, 2014 Author Posted February 24, 2014 Thread getting longer than an old dwarfs beard... New thread here “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
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