Fear of women body in modern videogames

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

Look, I disagree, some of the most played games in the world are  World of Warcraft, League of Legends and World of Tanks, we all know that tanks are totally hot and nobody complains about them, and as for WoW and LoL, both games have beautiful female characters and those games are suuuuper popular, and people LIKE those characters as they are, there's fanart all over the freaking internet.

 

And what is this new "juvenile fantasy" nonsense argument? Yeah, games are almost always fantasy fullfilment experiences and they are juvenile , they are a hobby to have fun, they are not serious bussines, unless you are a developer. What the hell people? are we now supposed to be embarrased that we like to enjoy our fantasies on top of beign embarrased that some of us happen to like attractive female characters?

 

 

You seem to be arguing about something completely different.  I am talking about the grossly exaggerated garbage that the OP keeps putting up.  I never said I had a problem with female characters.  I even used the new Tomb Raider as a good example, and she isn't exactly wearing a burqa.

 

 

Speaking of TR, Drowsy I agree with you that the story and seriousness of the new one is not a direction I am interested in.  But that really has nothing to do with her diminishing cup size.

 

 

This looks ridiculous.  It's definitely not the body of an acrobat.    

 

Leisure Suit Larry is clearly marketed towards a specific group.  It isn't a dungeon crawl, it is literally a game about boobs.  I have no problem with that, it isn't a game I have an interest in, but it is marketed towards a specific audience and that is fine.   

[HoonDing]

I don't know a lot of female gamers.  I do know a lot of females that dabble in games here and there, my wife included.  I can tell you without a doubt that if I showed them this picture:

 

 

They would have no interest in playing the game.  So that is bad marketing, bad art design, and bad for the game.  They are limiting the audience for no good reason at all.  It is juvenile.  They might have the most revolutionary game play ever created, but it crippled itself by choosing this art design.

 

Now that is fine if this is a niche title trying to appeal to a small audience.  But the majority of games should be broadening their player base, not limiting themselves to fulfill some juvenile fantasies.

 

The newest Tomb Raider was played by a couple of my female co-workers.  The fact that they went with a more realistic body, even if she was toned and had a lot of moisture shots, went a long way towards getting them to buy the game.  Next we just need to cut back on the gratuitous violence and we'll have a grown up industry.  

I'd play it because it looks like a fun game.

 

And maybe if you show them a pic of the dwarf in that game they will change their mind.

 

[Malcador]

Hah, Roberta Williams in a hot-tub, just awesome.

[Huinehtar]

And what is this new "juvenile fantasy" nonsense argument? Yeah, games are almost always fantasy fullfilment experiences and they are juvenile , they are a hobby to have fun, they are not serious bussines, unless you are a developer. What the hell people? are we now supposed to be embarrased that we like to enjoy our fantasies on top of beign embarrased that some of us happen to like attractive female characters?

 

 

Games with serious plots/settings/characters could be great too. They can be entertainning too. Concerning movies, I can watch Army of Darkness and Dark City. I enjoy both. Concerning games, "fun games" and "serious games" could co-exist as well. But I agree, it would be a shame if one of these kinds of games could disappear.

 

What I dislike about Dragon's Crown is the size of the head. It is too smal compared with the body (and breasts of course).

[pmp10]

You make it sound like a crime that some of us want to enjoy games, akin to those we enjoyed in our youth but with the benefit of new technology - not someone's attempt at making the perfect McBurger that they'll fill with whatever they think is socially relevant enough for the mass audience to lap it up.

The obvious problem is that modern technology and production values require larger audience for games to be profitable. And it's not just the boob size that's getting cut. Just look at the dumbing-down in the gameplay department.

[HoonDing]

Hah, Roberta Williams in a hot-tub, just awesome.

Would be amusing to see the internet drama when a modern day publisher would use similar promotion technique.

[Hurlshort]

 

You make it sound like a crime that some of us want to enjoy games, akin to those we enjoyed in our youth but with the benefit of new technology - not someone's attempt at making the perfect McBurger that they'll fill with whatever they think is socially relevant enough for the mass audience to lap it up.

The obvious problem is that modern technology and production values require larger audience for games to be profitable. And it's not just the boob size that's getting cut. Just look at the dumbing-down in the gameplay department.

 

 

Are we really putting boob size and gameplay side by side?  

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

I don't know a lot of female gamers.  I do know a lot of females that dabble in games here and there, my wife included.  I can tell you without a doubt that if I showed them this picture:

 

 

They would have no interest in playing the game.  So that is bad marketing, bad art design, and bad for the game.  They are limiting the audience for no good reason at all.  It is juvenile.  They might have the most revolutionary game play ever created, but it crippled itself by choosing this art design.

 

Now that is fine if this is a niche title trying to appeal to a small audience.  But the majority of games should be broadening their player base, not limiting themselves to fulfill some juvenile fantasies.

 

The newest Tomb Raider was played by a couple of my female co-workers.  The fact that they went with a more realistic body, even if she was toned and had a lot of moisture shots, went a long way towards getting them to buy the game.  Next we just need to cut back on the gratuitous violence and we'll have a grown up industry.  

I'd play it because it looks like a fun game.

 

And maybe if you show them a pic of the dwarf in that game they will change their mind.

 

 

 

Besides, if the game is anything like Odin's Sphere the character is likely to be 10cm tall on the screen. In other words its barely visible. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njyU-0YFgzY

 

So yes, all the girls are half naked but its obviously done for comic effect - and its all so tiny anyway. Definitely not in anyone's face. Its all so silly you'd really have to be intentionally negative (like the journalist) to make it out as something horrible

Edited June 8, 2013 by Drowsy Emperor

[obyknven]

 

I don't know a lot of female gamers.  I do know a lot of females that dabble in games here and there, my wife included.  I can tell you without a doubt that if I showed them this picture:

 

 

They would have no interest in playing the game.  So that is bad marketing, bad art design, and bad for the game.  They are limiting the audience for no good reason at all.  It is juvenile.  They might have the most revolutionary game play ever created, but it crippled itself by choosing this art design.

 

Now that is fine if this is a niche title trying to appeal to a small audience.  But the majority of games should be broadening their player base, not limiting themselves to fulfill some juvenile fantasies.

 

The newest Tomb Raider was played by a couple of my female co-workers.  The fact that they went with a more realistic body, even if she was toned and had a lot of moisture shots, went a long way towards getting them to buy the game.  Next we just need to cut back on the gratuitous violence and we'll have a grown up industry.  

I'd play it because it looks like a fun game.

 

And maybe if you show them a pic of the dwarf in that game they will change their mind.

 

 

I think Dragon's Crown is most serious Vanillaware game. This game is not about common people, but  about epic heroes and epic proportions of their bodies reflect this fact, art style looks very harmonious.  Funny thing only childish reaction on this art, such type of epic bodies exists IRL, but extremely rare and for majority of ordinary people looks unreal.

http://youtu.be/NBxo8s__v-s

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

 

Look, I disagree, some of the most played games in the world are  World of Warcraft, League of Legends and World of Tanks, we all know that tanks are totally hot and nobody complains about them, and as for WoW and LoL, both games have beautiful female characters and those games are suuuuper popular, and people LIKE those characters as they are, there's fanart all over the freaking internet.

 

And what is this new "juvenile fantasy" nonsense argument? Yeah, games are almost always fantasy fullfilment experiences and they are juvenile , they are a hobby to have fun, they are not serious bussines, unless you are a developer. What the hell people? are we now supposed to be embarrased that we like to enjoy our fantasies on top of beign embarrased that some of us happen to like attractive female characters?

 

 

You seem to be arguing about something completely different.  I am talking about the grossly exaggerated garbage that the OP keeps putting up.  I never said I had a problem with female characters.  I even used the new Tomb Raider as a good example, and she isn't exactly wearing a burqa.

 

 

Speaking of TR, Drowsy I agree with you that the story and seriousness of the new one is not a direction I am interested in.  But that really has nothing to do with her diminishing cup size.

 

 

This looks ridiculous.  It's definitely not the body of an acrobat.  

 

Leisure Suit Larry is clearly marketed towards a specific group.  It isn't a dungeon crawl, it is literally a game about boobs.  I have no problem with that, it isn't a game I have an interest in, but it is marketed towards a specific audience and that is fine.   

 

 

The cup size, as silly as it is - was part of the image that made LC an iconic character that everyone recognizes. Besides there's nothing unrealistic about giving the character model big breasts. You'd just have to make it more proportional in a modern game, since the model corresponds more to real life and is no longer very rough 3D.

 

But throwing out that part of the image in favor of a character with small breasts shows a curious and worrying tendency to pre emptively bend over for "public opinion", as if a game needs that sort of justification.

 

You could also say super mario is an offesive stereotype of an Italian, but that's really not what the character is about right?

[Volourn]

"I think it's less a fear of boobs and more a better grounding in reality and respect."

 

Hiding boobs is not realistic.  Women in real life don't hide their boobs just like men who ahve them don't hide their muscles.

 

 This whining about misgony is nonsense and has nothing to do with 'protecting' women.

 

Women slobber over men they find 'sexy' all the time. How else does one explain the existence of boy bands, harlequin romances, and the like? L0L

 

FFS, Conan the Barbarian  - probably one of the most popular male figures in fantasy goes around shirtless all the time. I don't see anyone whining about how that iss exist against men.

 

Boobs are good. Period.

 

On top of that, plenty of women love b00bs too so it's steroetypical and sexist to make it sound like women hate b00bs. That is not true. Only puritan controlling judgemental punks hate b00bs.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Volourn

[Chaz]

The cup size, as silly as it is - was part of the image that made LC an iconic character that everyone recognizes. Besides there's nothing unrealistic about giving the character model big breasts. You'd just have to make it more proportional in a modern game, since the model corresponds more to real life and is no longer very rough 3D.

 

 

But throwing out that part of the image in favor of a character with small breasts shows a curious and worrying tendency to pre emptively bend over for "public opinion", as if a game needs that sort of justification.

 

You could also say super mario is an offesive stereotype of an Italian, but that's really not what the character is about right?

 

 

The new Tomb Raider is a reboot of the franchise, and they are going for a realistic art style, so you have to respect them if they want to draw a new Lara with realistic proportions, and funnily enough, she could still be a super model with a body and face like that.

 

Same thing with Dragon Crown, people should respect their art style instead of beign petty immature childs that attack the artists, attack the people who like the game and the people that disagree with them, I think this is about the internet white knights having an ego trip more than anything else.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Chaz

[Cultist]

I like the tags

[Keyrock]

Dragon Crown can use whatever art style they want.  I personally don't find it the least bit appealing and think it looks ridiculous, but I'm sure there are those out there that think it's cool.  At the end of the day, rather than go on a crusade, I simply vote with my wallet.  If a game doesn't appeal to me, for whatever reason, I just don't buy it.

[Hurlshort]

Dragon Crown is free to create whatever they want, but we are also free to ridicule them for doing so.

[Chaz]

Dragon Crown is free to create whatever they want, but we are also free to ridicule them for doing so.

 

And they are supposed to be the immature ones?

[Volourn]

This is the internet. Nobody is mature - espicially on a forum like this.

 

I'll also riducle the juvenile prudes who cry over a little skin or oversized b00bies. Talk about sad, pathetic, misappropriated lack of morals.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Dragon Crown is free to create whatever they want, but we are also free to ridicule them for doing so.

 

And they are supposed to be the immature ones?

 

Bioware is often ridiculed on here for trying to appeal to emotion junkies rather than develop a competent story and for sucking in general. Why don't you go White Knight for them?

 

Funny thing only childish reaction on this art, such type of epic bodies exists IRL, but extremely rare and for majority of ordinary people looks unreal.

http://youtu.be/NBxo8s__v-s

If you think asses like that are uncommon, you obviously have not met very many black or hispanic women.

[Chaz]

 

If you think asses like that are uncommon, you obviously have not met very many black or hispanic women.

 

Now can you imagine what women would like if all game developers were Brazilian? all games would like Dragon Crown and the devs would be like "what's wrong? that's how our women look"

Edited June 8, 2013 by Chaz

[Keyrock]

Personally, speaking strictly of fantasy art styles of scantily clad women, I prefer something more, and I hesitate to use the word, realistic looking, like the work of Boris Vallejo:

 

 

 

Note:  I had to search a good bit to find Boris Vallejo pictures that I could actually post here, most of his work feature ample amounts of nudity.

 

Anyway, I find pictures of women with realistic proportions far more attractive and arousing that the ridiculously exaggerated style of something like Dragon Crown.  But hey, if people like that kind of extremely exaggerated style then that's their prerogative.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I admit, I find those images much more appealing than breasts the size of watermelons. Then again, I am an ass man.

 

Now can you imagine what women would like if all game developers were Brazilian? all games would like Dragon Crown and the devs would be like "what's wrong? that's how our women look"

Not really. Having a fantastic ass and having tittays like those in Dragon Crown are two different things.

Edited June 8, 2013 by KaineParker

[Sannom]

Same thing with Dragon Crown, people should respect their art style instead of being petty immature children that attack the artists, attack the people who like the game and the people that disagree with them, I think this is about the internet white knights having an ego trip more than anything else.

I shall not and I will not. It's just ugly! That dwarf just reinforces my position, to say nothing of the Barbarian lady. Those undetailed faces, on heads glued to a body that is three-times too big for them and detailed in all their grotesque proportions, make for very ugly designs.

[Chaz]

Anyway, I find pictures of women with realistic proportions far more attractive and arousing that the ridiculously exaggerated style of something like Dragon Crown.  But hey, if people like that kind of extremely exaggerated style then that's their prerogative.

 

The thing is, many people would still be mad because the woman on the drawing is showing too much skin and has a great body, buzzwords like sexism, misogyny or patriarchy are usually thrown around when people want to complain about that.

 

 

Not really. Having a fantastic ass and having tittays like those in Dragon Crown are two different things.

 

Dragon Crown also has an Amazon with a big ass, I was referring to that.

[Agiel]

Boris Vallejo incidentally married one of his favourite models, Julie Bell, a former competitive body-builder who also became a respected oil painter of the same subject matter. Their two sons have also followed in their footsteps as well.

[Lady Evenstar]

Given that his full line was:

 

 

 

Women on the other hand see their **** every day in front of the mirror. They couldn't care less.

 

I'd disagree.

 

 

The fallacy that he used, was in the first line:

 

 

 

In these topics its only the men debating the respectfulness of clevage revealing outfits.

 

Go to The Mary Sue and start a topic like this, and you'll get more opinion from women.

 

 

As for the ratio, I don't actually know what the demographics are.  Most may not "care" in the same way that I can still playthrough NWN despite Aribeth's armor.  I'd agree that most don't care... enough to bother posting about it.  Because most don't care to post about anything at all.  Does their lack of concern about being active internet users immediately imply that they aren't concerned about anything else?

 

I'd disagree.

 

I'd say there's also a large element of "is it useful to discuss this topic with these people" that needs to be factored in ... I ask myself are these folks genuinely seeking to understand or are they mostly looking to vent and score points.

 

That said, obviously, different women are going to feel differently about most any issue complex enough to merit discussion and context matters.