Update #54: Art Update - Work IS in Progress!

[IndiraLightfoot]

Sedrefilos: Indeed, the log window should be toggable, and in an easy way like in ToEE. 

 

Centurionofprix: Yea, I hear you. Mind you, though, that log window is in a stretch-out state there. So it would slide away or default to the same width as the portrait and action bar pillar.

 

Sensuki: This is my non-minimal compromise UI.   And also, the aim is to remove the bottom screen block, which would effectively ruin much of the gameplay feel, since the screen would be like a letter box. I think this kind of lateral pillar IU is the way to go.

[Osvir]

Thinking a bit more about it, I don't really care much how the UI is positioned. It can be X shaped for all I care. Looking at what has been presented I've shuddered a little bit, I've hummed a little bit, nodded a little bit and raised eyebrows a little bit. Some of the suggestions look great, some of them don't. It is mostly related to the aesthetic, because for me personally it doesn't matter if there's big portraits, small portraits, left or right chat, vertical or horizontal.

I just want it to be pretty and relate well to the game experience. I'm more for the aesthetic bits. If it's complex- or simplistic functionality-wise does not matter either, because I'll figure it out. Many seem to complain about NWN2 having a "not-so-pretty" UI, but no one is complaining about the functionality of it. So I think others probably relate.

So on the aesthetic bit, it would be cool if the UI had different art depending on where you are in the world (I.E: Dungeon, City, Outdoors. Those 3 would be the general fundamental ones but there's also Temple, Cave, Forest, Mountain, Graveyard/Corrupted etc. etc.). I think the best way to explain it would be "Skins". The buttons would be in the same place but the "UI Skin" would be different. Aah, a man can dream this is more of a visionary rather than a suggestion. Something I think could look cool.

Heck, it would be cool if the UI shifted depending on your character development. The darker, more morally evil, character gets to see his UI Skin shift and become corrupted and blighted, cracks begin to appear in it. The more Light-headed Paladin gets angels instead of the neutral looking statues etc. etc.

 

WarCraft 3 does this very well with the different races, I don't know how much resources Obsidian have to spend on it though but, again, it would be pretty cool (and more immersive I believe).

 

WarCraft 3 UI Art
Undead:

 

 

Night Elf:

 

 

Human:

 

 

 

Orc:

 

Edited May 30, 2013 by Osvir

[Grotesque]

 

 

I hope the UI will have some graphical elements like in these screenshots ( in upper right, lower left corners).

Hope this will serve for some inspiration.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Grotesque

[J. Trudel]

 

No. Absolutely not. How about an expanded combat log window instead, with all of its glorious mathamatical calculations present for us to study during a battle. Combat logs are for D&D nerds like me who want to know exactly how their combat mechanics are affecting the fight. I don't just want to know that my opponent made his saving throw against my sleep spell. I want to know what he rolled to make that save. I want to know what affected that roll, what type of bonusses he had. I want to be able to analize the second-by-second actions of an entire encounter, both the visual and the "behind the scenes" stuff. Take that away from me, and I'll dig through my trash can, pull out my copy of DA2, and mail it to you with a strongly worded letter of GTFO.

 

 

So, you want all the information that your DM wanted to hide from you right ? I also want to know the rules, more than just wanting to know the rules I would really like if they could be adapted for pen & paper RPG so I could run a campaign. Now for the log, I don't say that it should be removed from the game, I only say that it should be removed from the UI. Seriously, and be honest, were you always using the log in BG and IWD ? My humble guess is that most of the time, you knew you were fighting critters and that it wasn't use full and when you used it you carefully reviewed a hard battle that is going on while you paused the game ? When you pause the game for battle review there is nothing wrong about bringing a sliding combat log on screen and it has the merit to be space efficient. What I think is crucial to know is this (for most of the time) : 

 

• Did my character made a good attempt ? aka How high did I roll
• How well it worked ? Or how bad it failed
• Did I got damaged bad ?

All of this information can be given on screen with visual feedback (sounds, animations etc etc.) The game UI should be limited to interactive and character condition stuff only. However, that does not mean I don't want a detailed character sheet, a detailed combat feedback log, a detailed inventory, a detailed spellbook explaining spells. I am just saying that this stuff should not be in the UI. 

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

I hope the UI will have some graphical elements like in these screenshots ( in upper right, lower left corners).

Hope this will serve for some inspiration.

 

Inquisitor is a game with great artwork (even if I think it is a terrible game), and the UI is indeed quite pretty.  But, I'm not sure what works for a Diablo-style hack-and-slash is appropriate for a game like Project Eternity.  I also really like the idea of UI-as-a-frame as seen in the old Infinity Engine games and don't want that to disappear entirely.

[Malekith]

 

I hope the UI will have some graphical elements like in these screenshots ( in upper right, lower left corners).

Hope this will serve for some inspiration.

 

Inquisitor is a game with great artwork (even if I think it is a terrible game), and the UI is indeed quite pretty.  But, I'm not sure what works for a Diablo-style hack-and-slash is appropriate for a game like Project Eternity.  I also really like the idea of UI-as-a-frame as seen in the old Infinity Engine games and don't want that to disappear entirely.

 

That.

Also, someone above said that the complains about NWN2 UI are because it looks terrible and not about fanctionality.

Wrong again. It sure looks terrible, but IE UI (Torment excepted) were way more easy for me to use. NWN2 and ToEE UIs were a nightmare to use.

[Wench]

As mentioned by centurionofprix any UI that only partially blocks an edge of the screen causes minor problems with scrolling. Either need to make sure nothing can ever get under the hidden part of the map (which will cause issues with transitioning along edges of maps), or let you scroll past the edge of the map (ugly).

 

Another thing chances are the UI will be at a fixed resolution designed for widescreen monitors. If you placed the UI elements that were the same size on the edge of the screen, it takes up exactly the same amount of area on the screen, if the monitor is the standard 16:9. If your monitor is like mine and is 16:10 the a sidebar takes up more because extra gaps will need to be filled (I'll have an extra 120 pixels vertically that will need to be filled by the sidebar). Considering that the UI is going to be designed for the widest displays around why do people think that it takes up too much space. You can't get monitors wider than 16:9. There are alot of monitors that are taller though (16:10, 5:4, 4:3) and all of those will benefit from having the UI at the bottom.

 

Don't think about it taking away at the default aspect. Think about how it will affect all aspects. Having it at the bottom is best for all. Doesn't matter where on screen it is, it still takes up the same amount of screen real estate if the elements are the same size.

[rjshae]

Heh, a hundred postings, a hundred different opinions.

[Adhin]

@Morgulon The Wise: Yeah if they keep the current painted look, but do like.. 3 versions and kinda animate a shift to, and have them blink a bit or something. Or have different versions based off there 'state' (like sleepy, poisoned, heavily wounded ala Doom) and just to a few-frame-shift to with some blinking or something to give it all a bit more personality 'awhile' still allowing players to add in non-animated ones (as well as animated ones) I'd be totally down for it. The second it gets to 'complex' for the average person to add there own portrait in is when I think its not worth it anymore. That's the kinda thing I'd be fine doing but people being entirely reliant on the community doing it is just... ehh... yeah. I'd be ok either way but that's my stance on animated character portraits heh.

 

@Grotesque: I cannot agree any less. That is, I think all that GUI was about as horrid as it gets. It feels like a poorly done mod GUI cause AHH BONES YEAH MAN. Maybe if that games entirely about Tombs and Skeleton monsters and your main guys a rogue skeleton whos gained full sentients and he fights the horde of bad skeletons or something? I dunno maybe that's that game but the basic hp and mana orbs and stuff are all over the place its clunky. The placements of everythings just all over the place and it looks bad. Just... gods I hope it has nothing in common with any of that.

[Wench]

Additional comment about multi monitor systems. Where are you going to put a sidebar? Its really obvious where you put a bottom bar, bottom of centre monitor. Sidebar not so simple. Edge of centre screen creates a scrolling discontinuity. Putting it on the edge of an edge screen makes it extraordinary annoying to use.

 

Thumbs down to sidebar from me as if that wasn't obvious.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Wench

[Malekith]

Heh, a hundred postings, a hundred different opinions.

That's why i always prefer when the devs don't take our opinions seriously. Trying to please your audience is backwards. You should be making the game YOU as a dev wants to make, and have the audience form around that game, not the game formed around the audience preference since there isn't a consencous of what makes a good game among people.

That is Bioware's biggest problem in my opinion. They have listened to their audience way too much.

But  in kickstarted games that can't work since we paid for the game already, and deserve to know what is being made with our money. But as you see noone can agree in anything.

So, in my opinion, the devs should always make the choice that is closer to IE (thats what we paid for anyway, so if someone complain about that his complains are invalid), and only stray for that model if THEY genuinely believe that what they want to change would make for a better game for the people who liked the IE games.

[rjshae]

I have this sneaking suspicion that the real reason people prefer the L-shaped interface is because it preserves the (golden) aspect ratio of the viewing area.

[Morgulon the Wise]

Or have different versions based off there 'state' (like sleepy, poisoned, heavily wounded ala Doom) and just to a few-frame-shift to with some blinking or something to give it all a bit more personality 'awhile' still allowing players to add in non-animated ones (as well as animated ones) I'd be totally down for it.

 

This is essentially what I wanted. I only dunno what others think about it.

[Karkarov]

 

Heh, a hundred postings, a hundred different opinions.

That's why i always prefer when the devs don't take our opinions seriously. Trying to please your audience is backwards. You should be making the game YOU as a dev wants to make, and have the audience form around that game, not the game formed around the audience preference since there isn't a consencous of what makes a good game among people.

 

I do and don't agree.  Yes a large portion of the "audience" is going to be crazy hard core niche people and if you design the game around their tastes you are going to hurt your game.  That said there are plenty of people with sane ideas and suggestions that will work, be functional, and stick to the design concepts Sawyer himself said they were going for.  Not every fan is someone who doesn't understand game design, you have to pick and choose.  As the Dev you should make a game you like and want, but you should never ignore a good idea just because it didn't come from a Dev.

[Malekith]

 

 

Heh, a hundred postings, a hundred different opinions.

That's why i always prefer when the devs don't take our opinions seriously. Trying to please your audience is backwards. You should be making the game YOU as a dev wants to make, and have the audience form around that game, not the game formed around the audience preference since there isn't a consencous of what makes a good game among people.

 

I do and don't agree.  Yes a large portion of the "audience" is going to be crazy hard core niche people and if you design the game around their tastes you are going to hurt your game.  That said there are plenty of people with sane ideas and suggestions that will work, be functional, and stick to the design concepts Sawyer himself said they were going for.  Not every fan is someone who doesn't understand game design, you have to pick and choose.  As the Dev you should make a game you like and want, but you should never ignore a good idea just because it didn't come from a Dev.

 

I agree with that. Devs should always listen for good ideas. Except one thing.

 

 

Yes a large portion of the "audience" is going to be crazy hard core niche people and if you design the game around their tastes you are going to hurt your game.

You and i disagree almost completely in what is good game design. From my perpective it's the people who want a "modern"( whatever that means) game will hurt the game. I don't believe either of us is wrong, but at the same time is almost imposible to make a game that'll please both of us. That's why i said that in divisive matters like that they should follow as close to IE as they can. And i don't consider myself "hardcore" either. I have seen people who consider IE games "casual" and wanted a more oldschool hardcore experience like Realms of Arcania. I disagree with them as well.

As Avellone said, what matters is that the backers are happy with what we get. If the game has more broad appeal, great,we all hope for that. But the backers come first. And the only thing we have in common is love for the IE games. Sure, there were parts we didn't like, but that parts are different for each of us.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Malekith

[centurionofprix]

I have this sneaking suspicion that the real reason people prefer the L-shaped interface is because it preserves the (golden) aspect ratio of the viewing area.

Perhaps, but isn't that a legitimate reason as well?

[J. Trudel]

 

 

Heh, a hundred postings, a hundred different opinions.

That's why i always prefer when the devs don't take our opinions seriously. Trying to please your audience is backwards. You should be making the game YOU as a dev wants to make, and have the audience form around that game, not the game formed around the audience preference since there isn't a consencous of what makes a good game among people.

 

I do and don't agree.  Yes a large portion of the "audience" is going to be crazy hard core niche people and if you design the game around their tastes you are going to hurt your game.  That said there are plenty of people with sane ideas and suggestions that will work, be functional, and stick to the design concepts Sawyer himself said they were going for.  Not every fan is someone who doesn't understand game design, you have to pick and choose.  As the Dev you should make a game you like and want, but you should never ignore a good idea just because it didn't come from a Dev.

 

 

I totally agree, Devs should be looking for good ideas. Not to please everyone, anyhow I really trust them to make an awesome product ! And I really enjoy sharing my ideas, maybe some of them will give a a-ha and make it to the final product ! Or they may not , but I know I will enjoy that game, it might not be exactly as I want, but I don't want a game exactly as I want either. 

 

@Devs : Is there any planned update on the game rules ? I can't wait to have a glimpse of the game mechanics ! I really hope the mechanics could be ported to a full pen & paper RPG. I think this is one of the things that made me play BG, NWD and Torment back in the days. 

[Morgulon the Wise]

 

Heh, a hundred postings, a hundred different opinions.

That's why i always prefer when the devs don't take our opinions seriously. Trying to please your audience is backwards. You should be making the game YOU as a dev wants to make, and have the audience form around that game, not the game formed around the audience preference since there isn't a consencous of what makes a good game among people.

That is Bioware's biggest problem in my opinion. They have listened to their audience way too much.

But  in kickstarted games that can't work since we paid for the game already, and deserve to know what is being made with our money. But as you see noone can agree in anything.

So, in my opinion, the devs should always make the choice that is closer to IE (thats what we paid for anyway, so if someone complain about that his complains are invalid), and only stray for that model if THEY genuinely believe that what they want to change would make for a better game for the people who liked the IE games.

 

 

 

The problem in here is that the IE UI is also not that much consistent. Because of this we all percieved an other forms of UI in IE games. So what do do?

 

1. Dont listen to your audience and please particular groups... Nah, but they should consider some sentiments (such as mine!) (no! mine) 

 

2. Copy one of the old UIs/ Take the choices closer to IE... Nah, not only. (I saw Chris Avellone playing Arcania, which induced to me a certain fear  that he has no existent experience in playing such games at all - I hope he has greater knowledge when roleplaying with pen&paper. That's because I'd like to go PE more in that direction)

 

3. Listen to the audience to get ideas obsidian didn't have til now and mix it with their own thoughts... --> That's what I would do and what I think they are doing right now. (I believe in you)

 

 

 

€: Oh, I see you already solved this.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Morgulon the Wise

[rjshae]

 

I have this sneaking suspicion that the real reason people prefer the L-shaped interface is because it preserves the (golden) aspect ratio of the viewing area.

Perhaps, but isn't that a legitimate reason as well?

 

Definitely. To my eyes the dark control bar along the bottom creates a weight that draws the eyes downward like a misproportioned picture frame. Perhaps a gap or two in the bar would give the illusion of a taller display with a more natural aspect ratio? Or they could split the character/icons into a relocatable vertical box along the left and center the control/dialogue a little more.

Edited May 30, 2013 by rjshae

[Sedrefilos]

It's simple as that: designers have their own vision of the game. By making an update and say "here is our new update, discuss it at the forum" they're saying that they want our opinions. Since they want them, they can just read the posts, keep what they think is positive and move on - which I believe they do anyway

Thus far, I personally like 95% of Josh's and the team's general vision of the game (and rpgs in general), so, weather I like the UI or not, I believe I'm about to enjoy a great game

Edited May 30, 2013 by Sedrefilos

[Nixl]

Thanks for the update.  I like it.

 

I do have one small critique.  In regards to the statute and arch at each end of the UI, one part of me feels that the space could instead be used for more buttons (horrible way of phrasing it, I know).  On the other hand, I do like the idea of art in the UI, but the statute and arch feel a little weak (no offense meant to the art team). 

Edited May 30, 2013 by Nixl

[Labadal]

I hope we have quick access to spells like in Neverwinter Nights 2 when you preesed the "F" key. I didn't think about it, but I've used it a lot in Storm of Zehir. That's the only time I don't use the keyboard for spell selections. It's a great shortcut to all available spells and is also not forced on the player.

 

I honestly think there are ways to make the UI both mouse-friendly but still make the keyboard-guys happy.

[Morgulon the Wise]

He has also been working with our graphics programmer in developing the masking system for how we can increase variety in our characters via color changes on various elements of each. We intend this ability to be passed on to the player, so that they can customize their party's colors.

 

Hell yeah! This is customisation! Keep it up.

[Ifava]

UI looks suck. Please make it better becouse at this moment UI destroys the game concepts.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Ifava

[Failedlegend]

UI looks suck. Please make it better becouse at this moment UI destroys the game concepts.

 

It would probably be alot more useful if you mentioned Why you think it sucks and maybe even how you think they can approve it because otherwise they may misread what your saying.