Gun Control in the US

[Rostere]

Gun control wouldn't stop this. Doesn't Sweden have tough gun control?

Yes, we have. What's your point?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Gun Control will not happen in the US. Any attempts to even start a conversation about it will draw the gun nuts who believe that banning semi-automatic assault rifles or requiring a through background check means that the government is trying to take away all of your guns. Damn shame.

[Gorgon]

This kind of thing does seem to happen with alarming regularity in the US, but the idea of a right to gun ownership is so deeply ingrained in the American consciousness that such legislation will get nowhere. Instead there will be more mandatory security and focus on identifying children who may turn violent. Personally I think the idea of a 'thought

police' responsible for identifying these individuals is a worse infringement on personal liberty. However noble the intentions, I believe that will constitute the practicality of it.

 

Children don't vote, and something will be done to show action is being taken. Wheter it's the smartest move or not is another matter.

[GhostofAnakin]

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

 

Compared to others, US really isn't bad off for such a large country. It's just that each violent event immediately gets in the news all over the world + Hollywood action movies and US media giving the impression that everyone's a gun-toting nutter.

 

Does that list differentiate between the types of gun-related killings? For instance, a country like Mexico, who is higher on the list than the US (per capita) has quite a few murders that are linked to the drug cartel wars.

 

Would that list change dramatically if you excluded gun deaths associated with widespread either military action or drug wars, and focused exclusively on what can be better described as "domestic" gun murders? The type where "average citizens" end up going on a shooting spree?

[Raithe]

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

 

Compared to others, US really isn't bad off for such a large country. It's just that each violent event immediately gets in the news all over the world + Hollywood action movies and US media giving the impression that everyone's a gun-toting nutter.

 

The other side of that is the amount of people per square mile...

 

I remember a few years back some American Congressman got in a whole heap of trouble for pushing up statistics and basically saying that the UK had move violent crime then America, so the US of A was a great nation and people shouldn't go to the UK on holiday.

 

It turned out that all of his statistics were based on "non-gun related crimes" and were based around "population per square mile". Which when you take into account the kind of large non-urban areas in America compared to the UK, and average out those statistics...

 

Just goes to show that old saying of "lies, damn lies, and statistics"

[Meshugger]

At times like these...i do not really feel talking about gun control. At all.

[pmp10]

Never understood the point of gun control debate in the US.

By now there are so many firearms in circulation it would take decades if not a century to make obtaining one seriously problematic.

Sadly the only easy answer for the time being is more security.

And not of the armed-citizen type.

[Guest The Architect]

Speaking of gun nuts, how many of you guys have heard of the conspiracy theorist radio show host Alex Jones?

 

He's hilarious. One of my favourite YouTube comedians.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Speaking of gun nuts, how many of you guys have heard of the conspiracy theorist radio show host Alex Jones?

 

He's hilarious. One of my favourite YouTube comedians.

 

Comedy Gold. I honestly can't tell if he is truthful, his bull**** is so damn crazy. Not to mention his followers are even more religiously devoted than the paultards.

[AGX-17]

Here's a brutal irony: The majority of the NRA's rank-and-file members believe in gun control laws, yet they simultaneously blindly allow the leadership of the organization to take an extreme right-wing Fox News hyperbolic stance and let their money go to extreme lobbying for zero regulation of firearms as well as completely unrelated conservative boogeyman causes.

 

http://www.mikebloom...1818d65164a53a5

http://www.mayorsaga...home/home.shtml

http://www.demandaplan.org/about

 

- 87% of NRA members believe that second amendment rights go hand-in-hand with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals

 

- 74% of NRA members and 87 percent of non-NRA gun owners support requiring criminal background checks of anyone purchasing a gun.

 

- 79% percent of NRA members and 80 percent of non-NRA gun owners support requiring gun retailers to perform background checks on all employees – a measure recently endorsed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms industry.

 

- 75% of NRA members believe concealed carry permits should only be granted to applicants who have not committed any violent misdemeanors, including assault.

 

- 74% of NRA members believe permits should only be granted to applicants who have completed gun safety training.

 

- 68% of NRA members believe permits should only be granted to applicants who do not have prior arrests for domestic violence.

 

- 63% of NRA members believe permits should only be granted to applicants 21 years of age or older.

 

 

Children don't vote, and something will be done to show action is being taken. Wheter it's the smartest move or not is another matter.

 

No, no action will be taken. Gun control wasn't an issue (but a conservative boogeyman in both 2008 and 2012,) and countless shootings occurred in that time span (without making the national/global news.) Even if someone (Democrats, it'll be a cold day in hell when the GOP stands for gun control,) started to push gun control legislation, the tea party/far right controlled GOP would fight it tooth & nail.

Edited December 15, 2012 by AGX-17

[Orogun01]

Fully automatic weapons are not legal for general ownership in the US. Semi-automatic, yes.

 

Noone can aim a fully automatic weapon anyhow (on full blast). A semi-automatic is even more lethal because even if the rate of fire might not be as high, the accuracy is tenfold.

 

http://www.businessi...snipers-2012-12

 

Why do you sell these to the general population??

A lot of fully automatic guns have semi automatic civilian versions which with the right conversion kit can be turned back into full auto. Semi auto is not a big deterrent and demilitarization only means that you have some welding to do and its back to firing shape. One has to frown at such implementations of "gun control" and that's without mentioning gun shows.

[Calax]

At times like these...i do not really feel talking about gun control. At all.

But it's the only time it'll ever come up for discussion.

[Pshaw]

People who say that, "criminals and mad men would get guns anyway" aren't being entirely honest with themselves. If I was an angry kid wanting to do something like this and assuming my family didn't have a gun to steal I wouldn't know where to go to buy one illegally on the fly. Personally I don't know where to go to buy an illegal gun. That right there would leave me either without a gun or having to get on legally. Perhaps while waiting on getting one legally I'd have to reassess what a f*ckin' awful idea getting a gun to kill innocent children was and would get help. Perhaps I wouldn't get a gun at all because somewhere along the line somebody realized I was a crazy son of a b*tch and didn't give me a permit to own a gun. How many of our 10 THOUSAND plus deaths from guns annually would be prevented if an angry husband or wife couldn't reach into a closet in a moment of anger and grab a convenient gun they had for 'protection'? How many kids wouldn't shoot their friends if they didn't find guns in the house? How many people wouldn't mistakenly shoot friends and family thinking they were buglers breaking into the house? Even the criminals we're all supposed to be scared of, how many of them are just desperate people who without convenient access to a gun wouldn't have killed the person they were robbing? After all if you're knocking over the liquor store to get money for food or drugs you've probably long ago spent all the money you had and would have had nothing left in order to buy a gun with which to rob somebody.

 

It's true that guns aren't solely to blame, there's tons of factors, but the guns make it easier to carry out this sort of mayhem. For example look at the similar attack that occurred in china today. 22 children were stabbed, but none were killed. If the gutless wonder from today's attack had to stab people maybe less people would have died. Maybe 1 of those 6 adults he killed would have overpowered him and those children would still be safe. If you're going to tell me that 'oh it's just as easy to go around killing people with a knife as it is a gun' you're lying to yourself. You're crazy if you don't think less guns around the country would mean fewer deaths from guns.

 

Finally you're also crazy if you think making guns harder to get and banning certain types of guns all together would lead to total anarchy where criminals ruled the streets and a fascist government oppressed the people. MANY countries have harsher gun laws than us and are not falling prey to these pro-gun boogey men. Even criminals don't go around shooting up schools it's regular people who are troubled that finally snap.

 

There are other things to talk about as well. The health care system in this county (but then again many pro-gun people are also anti-universal healthcare) is one of them. The fact that even if you do get help their is still a huge stigma associated with seeing a therapist. The lack of time parents have to spend with their children due to most family's needing to put in longer hours and work harder for smaller wages leaving them too exhausted or simply not present at all in their children's lives. The media that pounces on these tragedies for ratings (side note, in china they also don't report much on these attacks in the news to prevent copycatting) even though it's been shown that covering these stories in the way we do increases the likelihood of another similar attack. The list goes on and on. Just because it's a long list however doesn't mean that gun control and reform of gun laws shouldn't be discussed. Truthfully they belong on the list if not right at the top.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Pshaw

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

At times like these...i do not really feel talking about gun control. At all.

But it's the only time it'll ever come up for discussion.

 

Times like this happen everyday. With some people there never is a time to talk about gun control.

[Guest The Architect]

Yeah, you just have to mention gun control to a ring-wing nut and they think you mean a conspiracy to disarm the public and throw them into FEMA camps.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Yeah, you just have to mention gun control to a ring-wing nut and they think you mean a conspiracy to disarm the public and throw them into FEMA camps.

 

Shhh, don't tell anyone the Plan.

[Guest The Architect]

Whoops, sorry about that, the Illuminati will be very angry with me now.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Whoops, sorry about that, the Illuminati will be very angry with me now.

 

We are. All we need is for someone to cleverly put together random scraps of unconnected information to unveil our conspiracy.

[Zoraptor]

I don't think gun control is particularly practical in the US, just too many about and too difficult to get something that actually works as intended. It's easier if you're starting from a base of low gun ownership, and a lot of these events will be people who just 'snap' rather than anything else, and that is very difficult to detect or prevent ahead of time. Even obvious examples are only so with hindsight on, the majority of people in such stressful situations do not respond that way.

 

Gun control wouldn't stop this. Doesn't Sweden have tough gun control?

Yes, we have. What's your point?

Breivik, presumably, and how your (sic) tough gun controls didn't stop him murdering a bunch of kids. The point is, of course, slightly reduced by not getting the country right.

[Hurlshort]

 

How you want to find those individuals with an improved psychiatric care system as mentioned above is btw. beyond me. Mental breakdowns can happen suddenly, and usually first something happens and then psychiatric care steps in to help. Anyway, I'm not a hippie or die-hard pacifist, but IMO gun control is very much needed, everywhere.

 

Ah, psychiatry is a subject I can speak to with a bit more authority, since I know very little about guns or even gun laws. Finding the individuals is not actually difficult, I see 180 students every year and I can pick out the few that are at risk for this type of breakdown, most teachers can. We tell the counselors, we recommend therapy, we meet with the parents. But this is a very treacherous ground. You can't just tell a person "your child is crazy." Parents have all the control here, they can say no to all the interventions that a school might want to implement. The system is flawed.

[Gorth]

I don't think gun control is particularly practical in the US, just too many about and too difficult to get something that actually works as intended. It's easier if you're starting from a base of low gun ownership, and a lot of these events will be people who just 'snap' rather than anything else, and that is very difficult to detect or prevent ahead of time. Even obvious examples are only so with hindsight on, the majority of people in such stressful situations do not respond that way.

 

Gun control wouldn't stop this. Doesn't Sweden have tough gun control?

Yes, we have. What's your point?

Breivik, presumably, and how your (sic) tough gun controls didn't stop him murdering a bunch of kids. The point is, of course, slightly reduced by not getting the country right.

 

Yes, Breivik, filthy Swede that he is...

[Katphood]

Most of these people aren't even really criminals, they are psychopaths who suddenly lose it. How do we pick up on that? That's why I mentioned overhauling our psychiatric system, I suppose that might be the bigger discussion point here.

 

True, but I'd say they're also people who are being pushed one way or another in addition to being a psychopath. Take the case of The Columbine High School for example. The shooters(Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold) where bullied & mobbed at school most of the time and even once, people surrounded them in the school commons and squirted ketchup packets all over them while calling them F*ggoths! ...and this all happened while the teachers where calmly watching the scene...amazing! That's not the best way to treat someone that has mental problems or is depressed, introverted etc.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Astiaks

[Rostere]

Gun control wouldn't stop this. Doesn't Sweden have tough gun control?

Yes, we have. What's your point?

Breivik, presumably, and how your (sic) tough gun controls didn't stop him murdering a bunch of kids. The point is, of course, slightly reduced by not getting the country right.

[Volourn]

"ar. Every year you kill 4 times as many of your own than that "biggest terrorist attack in history" did. You guys kill your own children and the right wing nuts will still say you need more guns to stop this.."

 

Who is this 'you' you speak of? I'm not Amerikan.

 

Also, depsite tragedies like this, crime rates have gone down in the US. It has gone down at a faster rate than my own country has.

 

Gun control is not the issue. The issue is that in a country the size of Amerka there is bound to be a a few pyshcos.

 

People point out China.. but the pyshcos there are often the ones in power.

 

A person is responsible for mjurdeirng those people today. Not a gun.

 

 

P.S. Sorry if I got the country wrong. You Euros all look alike espicially with the whoel ' strict gun laws will styop evil people from doiing evil things' nonsense.. L0LZ

 

People have been murdering people en masse will before the first gun existed, and even if every single gun was destroyed the mass murdering will continue.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Volourn

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its amusing how its always the guns that are to blame, as if they were anything more than a tool. Anyone who really wants to get a gun and go on a spree can do it, anywhere in the world, regardless of whatever law is in place. Serbia had a lax policy on guns during the 90s and the same restrictive policies most european countries have are in place now, and have been for a while. It made no real difference, except that it left honest citizens defenseless while the criminals are as well armed as they ever were.

 

The issue in the US is not the guns, its the cultural acceptance of violence. The US embraces the idea of justified killing (you could just see the jubilation when Bin Laden was killed) and just wars - and the old eye for an eye principle.Every country in the world could be considered guilty of this at some point or another, but with the US its systemic. Taking a gun out to solve a problem may not be acceptable by law, but its so common that it can only be considered (at least partially) socially acceptable.

 

So the logic (in the minds of these killers) is simple:

They (whoever) wronged me > I'm going to get back at them > How am I going to do it? > I'm going to get myself a gun and shoot as many as I can

 

Social isolation helps. The more modern a country is the more of the old bonds of extended families and such are broken. In a traditional society few people are really socially isolated - in a modern one, many are. Its much harder to snap and go around killing people when you know each and every one of your supposed victims.

 

To wonder at the results of violence is the US is to embrace a voluntary blindness as to how violent and cutthroat the US system is, internally and towards other countries.