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Why do you enjoy RPG?


BruceVC

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I have a feeling that if asked this question 8-10 years ago, my answers might have been very different. :)

“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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It's tough for me because I've liked RPGs of all stripes. In PnP, I've enjoyed Gamma World, Dungeons and Dragons, Boot Hill, Paranoia, Cthulu, and tons of obscure rpgs as well as friends' homebrew stuff. In CRPGs, I've enjoyed everything from Temple of Apshai to Diablo to Planescape: Torment. Some of the games in the genre are so far apart from one another, they might as well be in different genres. For that reason it can be hard to pin down my favorite reason, but I think the best way to approach this question is to stipulate that I like the genre for many reasons. I want fun gameplay, some humor, a little drama, maybe some suspense and a pinch of horror all combined with cool eye-candy, a compelling music score, and a story that let's me define my character in some good way. Not every game provides all that. In fact, most games don't provide at least some of those things, but I still enjoy every one of those aspects.

 

The thing that's most important to me is a compelling story in which my character is forced to make real decisions. Those decisions need not revolve around world-ending events. If my wife is dying, most of the world won't care at all, and yet that event is supremely important to me personally. The world will go on no matter what we do, and so the stories that are most important to me personally are personal in nature. Kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall but you go on and on... just like October. (just seeing if there are any other U2 fans out there.)

 

I don't mind romances. They're not really my thing, but I don't mind them. It's just that virtually all of them are just ridiculously stupid. I've known my wife for over 30 years. I've been married to her for almost seventeen. How compelling do you think a romance between two strangers who hardly know each other can be for someone like me? If something happened to my wife, they'd probably find me wandering around the local orange groves. Most computer game romances strike me as laughable.

 

Now, to go the opposite and be non-emo, I can understand the raw physical chemistry between TNO and Annah. That was written so superbly, and it really strikes me so genuine, that I couldn't help but enjoy the exchange. Even being married, I can grasp raw mutual physical attraction between people who've just met. Likewise, I know how traumatic experiences can draw people close quickly. I just don't see any of it as the sort of 'romance' folks talk about. I'd rather just call it sexual heat.

 

I don't go out of my way to fight with folks about romances. I think some, very few, but some, are quite well done. I just think that they have to be carefully written to qualify as so-called 'mature' gaming. Part of that is the fact that death is meaningless in a lot of games. People in your life dying is a wrenching event that games almost never recognize.

 

Then again, I've enjoyed a lot of games with laughable romances, so I'm still trying to define what I want or don't want in a CRPG.

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It's tough for me because I've liked RPGs of all stripes. In PnP, I've enjoyed Gamma World, Dungeons and Dragons, Boot Hill, Paranoia, Cthulu, and tons of obscure rpgs as well as friends' homebrew stuff. In CRPGs, I've enjoyed everything from Temple of Apshai to Diablo to Planescape: Torment. Some of the games in the genre are so far apart from one another, they might as well be in different genres. For that reason it can be hard to pin down my favorite reason, but I think the best way to approach this question is to stipulate that I like the genre for many reasons. I want fun gameplay, some humor, a little drama, maybe some suspense and a pinch of horror all combined with cool eye-candy, a compelling music score, and a story that let's me define my character in some good way. Not every game provides all that. In fact, most games don't provide at least some of those things, but I still enjoy every one of those aspects.

 

The thing that's most important to me is a compelling story in which my character is forced to make real decisions. Those decisions need not revolve around world-ending events. If my wife is dying, most of the world won't care at all, and yet that event is supremely important to me personally. The world will go on no matter what we do, and so the stories that are most important to me personally are personal in nature. Kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall but you go on and on... just like October. (just seeing if there are any other U2 fans out there.)

 

I don't mind romances. They're not really my thing, but I don't mind them. It's just that virtually all of them are just ridiculously stupid. I've known my wife for over 30 years. I've been married to her for almost seventeen. How compelling do you think a romance between two strangers who hardly know each other can be for someone like me? If something happened to my wife, they'd probably find me wandering around the local orange groves. Most computer game romances strike me as laughable.

 

Now, to go the opposite and be non-emo, I can understand the raw physical chemistry between TNO and Annah. That was written so superbly, and it really strikes me so genuine, that I couldn't help but enjoy the exchange. Even being married, I can grasp raw mutual physical attraction between people who've just met. Likewise, I know how traumatic experiences can draw people close quickly. I just don't see any of it as the sort of 'romance' folks talk about. I'd rather just call it sexual heat.

 

I don't go out of my way to fight with folks about romances. I think some, very few, but some, are quite well done. I just think that they have to be carefully written to qualify as so-called 'mature' gaming. Part of that is the fact that death is meaningless in a lot of games. People in your life dying is a wrenching event that games almost never recognize.

 

Then again, I've enjoyed a lot of games with laughable romances, so I'm still trying to define what I want or don't want in a CRPG.

 

Thanks for the response Cant and your opinion on Romance, as usual its always interesting to get your insight :)

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Kind of meant to reply to this earlier, but wanted to wait until I'd finished MOTB. It's actually quite a difficult question to answer, I still don't really know why I don't like Arcanum for example, it has theoretically everything I should like but... And I'd have to work out why I theoretically like strong storylines and good atmosphere/ world building but like roguelikes and old school low story stuff as well as stuff like, well, MOTB.

 

I guess that if I had to I would say that I tend to like 3 things above all else in games- good mechanics/ gameplay, good atmosphere and a good story line- and that in general most other genres have two out of three of those, but not all three. Something like SMAC or Civ from the strategy side has good mechanics for example, but tend to lack in at least atmosphere (and storyline, though SMAC is about as good at that as it's possible for a strategy title to be). From the fps side, something like STALKER is good on the gameplay side and has excellent atmosphere but... you wouldn't really play it for the storyline. RPGs are about the only genre in which you often get all three things together. So something like BG2 is, at least in theory, just about my perfect game.

 

In reality though I actually like Fallout 2, MOTB and PST at least better than BG2 despite them being objectively weaker than BG2 in what should be the most important area for a game, namely gameplay itself. OTOH Arcanum has good atmosphere and a good story, and gameplay which is, well, not worse than some other games I enjoy yet overall I don't like it much at all. Ultimately it comes down to the rather nebulous and unquantifiable sense of 'immersion' as perhaps the most important factor, the feeling that it's you getting punked by the controller in X16, you getting taunted by SHODAN or you talking The Master to death. But that is not in itself specific to RPGs.

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I have a feeling that if asked this question 8-10 years ago, my answers might have been very different. :)

 

I know. 10 years ago I probably would have written a long and, more importantly, serious answer ;)

Unobtrusively informing you about my new ebook (which you should feel free to read and shower with praise).

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I like to be able to completely create a character design(personality, mannerisms, philosophy, abilities, etc.) and see how that character reacts to stimuli. The ability to create your own protagonist(s) is something that seems nearly unique to RPGs and I love having that ability. I think it is amazing how in BG(2) or NWN2 the Bhaalspawn or Kalach-Cha can be almost anyone that the player imagines. I think that letting the player define the PC and letting them bring that character to life is the biggest appeal of RPGs to me.

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"Player Agency. "

 

What a meaningless phrase since all games have player agency.

 

Anyways, my reasoning for liking RPGs is even more meaningless than yours - i find them fun. :)

 

Yes but why do you find them fun? The fun you experience is a result of other factors. You need to take the time to explain, I know you don't mind writing posts around your opinion :)

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Well Bruce I have to say that I just fell for RPGs from the very first moment I tried playing one some 12 maybe 13 years ago. All games in that time I was playing was mostly demo versions on CDs from my friend and one day TES: Daggerfall was on one of them,

I didn't understand english very much at that age (but suffice to say spending following RPGs with dictionary by hand teached me english better then my teacher did :yes: ) so I had not a slightest idea how to create my character of what use are those points and stats and when I finally (after quite few tries) got in game, well that was great accomplishment(but to find out how to swing weapon was another problem :facepalm:). Also one of the very first games I ever read about was Albion I loved the beautiful cover and I was so excited reading about all the stuff the review was praising, ah good times.

Since I was always moreless dreamy kid with head in sky and thoughts somewhere in fantasyland I found in fantasy RPGs even better place for my imagination, so yes it was kinda escaping the bleak reality on my part aswell (since my childhood sucked quite a LOT). Also I was passionate reader and I never had enough of loads of texts the good RPGs provided with their stories, worlds and describings. I loved I can be virtually anybody and anything in fantasy worlds I can explore, fight for better days and have nice friends/companions.

 

The very first RPG I trully went all fully in was Fallout 2 (and many others followed) by that time I was around 15 and was able to understand principles and mechanics of that game and of course I had a blast and it influenced my tastes quite a lot, but the one RPG that I wanted to play since I saw first screenshots and review in friend's magazine was P:T, in 16 I finally got my hands on it and well, untill now I haven't met any game that would make me feel such attachment, so many many emotins, well I better stop before nostalgia takes over me entirely :no:.

But hey, those stories made write my own book and that says something.

What I always wanted to see and play was a game like Fallout with free world and free story progress, just in fantasy setting but unlike TES with colourful characters and plenty of options in dialogs and quests solvings. And dream came true when Arcanum was created and in a way replaced P:T for me (in certain points). But technically speaking last true RPGs I played was Morrowind and Gothic 1-3 and Wizardry (I never got liking for Diablo in the ARPG department I enjoyed Revenant and Cult : Heretik Kingdoms much better) and and in time when the Oblivion was out I haven't enjoyed following modern RPGs as much as the ones I grew up with (because I was used for different kind of content and quality). So that's pretty much it I hope I sumed it all up as best as I could.

Edited by Ywerion
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"Have you ever spoken with the dead? Called to them from this side? Called them from their silent rest? Do you know what it is that they feel?

Pain. Pain, when torn into this wakefulness, this reminder of the chaos from which they had escaped. Pain of having to live! There will be no more pain. There will be... no more chaos."

 

 

Kerghan the Terrible,

first of the Necromancers,

voyager in the Lands of the Dead.

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Well Bruce I have to say that I just fell for RPGs from the very first moment I tried playing one some 12 maybe 13 years ago. All games in that time I was playing was mostly demo versions on CDs from my friend and one day TES: Daggerfall was on one of them,

I didn't understand english very much at that age (but suffice to say spending following RPGs with dictionary by hand teached me english better then my teacher did :yes: ) so I had not a slightest idea how to create my character of what use are those points and stats and when I finally (after quite few tries) got in game, well that was great accomplishment(but to find out how to swing weapon was another problem :facepalm:). Also one of the very first games I ever read about was Albion I loved the beautiful cover and I was so excited reading about all the stuff the review was praising, ah good times.

Since I was always moreless dreamy kid with head in sky and thoughts somewhere in fantasyland I found in fantasy RPGs even better place for my imagination, so yes it was kinda escaping the bleak reality on my part aswell (since my childhood sucked quite a LOT). Also I was passionate reader and I never had enough of loads of texts the good RPGs provided with their stories, worlds and describings. I loved I can be virtually anybody and anything in fantasy worlds I can explore, fight for better days and have nice friends/companions.

 

The very first RPG I trully went all fully in was Fallout 2 (and many others followed) by that time I was around 15 and was able to understand principles and mechanics of that game and of course I had a blast and it influenced my tastes quite a lot, but the one RPG that I wanted to play since I saw first screenshots and review in friend's magazine was P:T, in 16 I finally got my hands on it and well, untill now I haven't met any game that would make me feel such attachment, so many many emotins, well I better stop before nostalgia takes over me entirely :no:.

But hey, those stories made write my own book and that says something.

What I always wanted to see and play was a game like Fallout with free world and free story progress, just in fantasy setting but unlike TES with colourful characters and plenty of options in dialogs and quests solvings. And dream came true when Arcanum was created and in a way replaced P:T for me (in certain points). But technically speaking last true RPGs I played was Morrowind and Gothic 1-3 and Wizardry (I never got liking for Diablo in the ARPG department I enjoyed Revenant and Cult : Heretik Kingdoms much better) and and in time when the Oblivion was out I haven't enjoyed following modern RPGs as much as the ones I grew up with (because I was used for different kind of content and quality). So that's pretty much it I hope I sumed it all up as best as I could.

 

Nice post Ywerion, thanks for taking the time to explain :)

 

I like the part of the response where you talk about how RPG helped improve your English when you used a dictionary. Let no one say that RPG can't be educational :geek:

 

Also did you mention you wrote a book from the inspiration you got from the whole RPG experience?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Well that would be exaggerating, since I never finished it, but yes I hold great love for my language and I was really good in writing works in schools, so when I was 17 or 18 I decided to do something with all those fantasies in my head and because of the RPG influnce I intended to write a book as if it was my own RPG. Well looking back Im actually glad my brothers crashed the PC, because it was a very poor attempt, so at least I had time to rethink it all, tried a 2 years later and again lost all data thanks to computer crash and my backup CD didn't work :banghead:

And I for long time got so frustrated that I stopped and decided to wait for time when I move to my own place where I can finally start again without interrupting. And thus I recently started again, but interesting thing is how over the years all the ideas culminated and changed radically and actually Im proud I found a way how to link three separate different stories into final form (each can be descibed as single Hero action RPG, the other more in P:T vein with small fleshed party of twisted characters and the final one in which the story takes place is open ended like say Fallout but the previous are part of my world history and crucial for story), and for example the original main hero from the the version I planned when I was 17 changed most rapidly and is now more or less side character. Untill now I have finished 3 chapters thanks to heavy rewritings but I made up my mind and Im decided to write it all and possibly publish it, not for wealth but to accomplish this one thing that combines all I always liked and was good at in my life.

Edited by Ywerion
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"Have you ever spoken with the dead? Called to them from this side? Called them from their silent rest? Do you know what it is that they feel?

Pain. Pain, when torn into this wakefulness, this reminder of the chaos from which they had escaped. Pain of having to live! There will be no more pain. There will be... no more chaos."

 

 

Kerghan the Terrible,

first of the Necromancers,

voyager in the Lands of the Dead.

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And yes, let nobody badmouth RPGs as uneducational, for at least this humble contributor learned quite a lot from them!

Edited by Ywerion

"Have you ever spoken with the dead? Called to them from this side? Called them from their silent rest? Do you know what it is that they feel?

Pain. Pain, when torn into this wakefulness, this reminder of the chaos from which they had escaped. Pain of having to live! There will be no more pain. There will be... no more chaos."

 

 

Kerghan the Terrible,

first of the Necromancers,

voyager in the Lands of the Dead.

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Well that would be exaggerating, since I never finished it, but yes I hold great love for my language and I was really good in writing works in schools, so when I was 17 or 18 I decided to do something with all those fantasies in my head and because of the RPG influnce I intended to write a book as if it was my own RPG. Well looking back Im actually glad my brothers crashed the PC, because it was a very poor attempt, so at least I had time to rethink it all, tried a 2 years later and again lost all data thanks to computer crash and my backup CD didn't work :banghead:

And I for long time got so frustrated that I stopped and decided to wait for time when I move to my own place where I can finally start again without interrupting. And thus I recently started again, but interesting thing is how over the years all the ideas culminated and changed radically and actually Im proud I found a way how to link three separate different stories into final form (each can be descibed as single Hero action RPG, the other more in P:T vein with small fleshed party of twisted characters and the final one in which the story takes place is open ended like say Fallout but the previous are part of my world history and crucial for story), and for example the original main hero from the the version I planned when I was 17 changed most rapidly and is now more or less side character. Untill now I have finished 3 chapters thanks to heavy rewritings but I made up my mind and Im decided to write it all and possibly publish it, not for wealth but to accomplish this one thing that combines all I always liked and was good at in my life.

 

Wow, the fact that you spent time creating these stories is impressive. Keep it up and let us know when you are finished so those interested can read them, if you want?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Well that would be exaggerating, since I never finished it, but yes I hold great love for my language and I was really good in writing works in schools, so when I was 17 or 18 I decided to do something with all those fantasies in my head and because of the RPG influnce I intended to write a book as if it was my own RPG. Well looking back Im actually glad my brothers crashed the PC, because it was a very poor attempt, so at least I had time to rethink it all, tried a 2 years later and again lost all data thanks to computer crash and my backup CD didn't work :banghead:

And I for long time got so frustrated that I stopped and decided to wait for time when I move to my own place where I can finally start again without interrupting. And thus I recently started again, but interesting thing is how over the years all the ideas culminated and changed radically and actually Im proud I found a way how to link three separate different stories into final form (each can be descibed as single Hero action RPG, the other more in P:T vein with small fleshed party of twisted characters and the final one in which the story takes place is open ended like say Fallout but the previous are part of my world history and crucial for story), and for example the original main hero from the the version I planned when I was 17 changed most rapidly and is now more or less side character. Untill now I have finished 3 chapters thanks to heavy rewritings but I made up my mind and Im decided to write it all and possibly publish it, not for wealth but to accomplish this one thing that combines all I always liked and was good at in my life.

 

Wow, the fact that you spent time creating these stories is impressive. Keep it up and let us know when you are finished so those interested can read them, if you want?

 

If it will be possible I will be honored to, yet publishing your own work in my country isn't exactly easy and since it will be my first work the harder it will be, not to mention it has to be a real hit to be published in different languages, but as old saying says: Hope dies last, and if it wont be successfull I promise I will at least translate some good bits and put them on internet for everyone interested in reading it.

"Have you ever spoken with the dead? Called to them from this side? Called them from their silent rest? Do you know what it is that they feel?

Pain. Pain, when torn into this wakefulness, this reminder of the chaos from which they had escaped. Pain of having to live! There will be no more pain. There will be... no more chaos."

 

 

Kerghan the Terrible,

first of the Necromancers,

voyager in the Lands of the Dead.

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There is not - and in my opinion - cannot be a singular answer to this. Its like asking "Why do you enjoy books?" or "why do you not enjoy being beaten around the head and shoulders with a 2 x 4?"

 

There are multiple reasons why.

 

Some games I may enjoy the combat or I may enjoy the story. I may enjoy the NPC characters I meet or just running around the countryside acting like an anti-social savant obsessed with shiny objects and riddled with anger management issues. And therein lies the truth; its about scope. RPGs have such a wide ranging scope of possibilities that there's a lot of potential to be hooked by some element, whether its a story, a romance, a group of lovably dysfunctional NPCs, crafting, dungeon delving, the ability to shoot your enemies in the groin and have them take it like a man. That is to say, it hurts.

 

No other game genre has the ability to open up a world of possibilities like an RPG and therefore there is no one thing that draws me to them, but an abundance of potential things. I don't care about turn-based combat or real-time with pause or real time. I've enjoyed games with all sorts of mechanics - even mechanics I hated. I don't care if its create-a-protaganist or play some spikey haired dude. I don't care if its 3D, 2D, 2.5D, 4D; 1st person, 3rd person or US or Japanese or European. Because there are so many things there in that all encompassing reach for the stars but keep your feet on the ground approach to RPGs that promises so much more beyond any one element that makes it whole.

 

Or something.

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Narrative - Roleplaying games and adventure games (latter of which I have less experience with) have this rather unique quality compared to other games, where you're allowed to have a longer lull in action without people getting impatient, so they can take the time to tell the story properly. Granted, this can be taken to annoying extremes like Hyperdimension Neptunia (ugh), where you pretty much listen to stock anime bull**** for 40 minutes before you're actually allowed to PLAY the game

 

Immersion (exploration) - I can't really separate the two in my mind, because for me, exploration is a tool for strengthening immersion. Choice of playstyle, plot-related choice and consequence help immersion immensely, but exploration is like the game is letting me give a **** about the setting. Going somewhere out of my own free will, is like I ask the question "Hey game, what's that over there?" and finding something worth noticing is as if the game is giving me a proper answer. Then, something minor/major about the game world is properly solidified in my memory.

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I can't really nail down any one thing that I enjoy about RPGs above any other. I would say story/narrative/character depth since I really enjoy story driven games (story-driven RPGs, adventure games), but at the same time I've really enjoyed games with very little story that are mostly focused on gameplay and combat (loot em ups). I love exploration, but I've also enjoyed more linear games. I love some games with tons of dialogue, lore to read, cutscenes to watch, but I find it tedious in others. In the end the elements that determine whether I enjoy the whole package vary greatly. Take Venetica for example. That game has tons of flaws, subpar graphics, glitches, mediocre at best voice work, a so so story, repetative gameplay, limited weapon and armor options. Yet I loved every second of that game. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and I'm not sure I can explain why.

:shrugz:

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My answer is that I don't. That is, not in any special way. I enjoy certain RPGs in the way I enjoy certain strategy games or certain adventure games. The only genres I tend to dislike outright are first person shooters and real time strategy, aside from that an RPG has as much chance as anything else.

 

That wasn't always the case. The traditional core of RPGs, the hacking, the slashing, the loot, the levelling - none of it has been of any particular appeal personally. When someone brings up "old-school RPG" as a term of endearment, I'd probably nod politely and change the subject. Just to pick on recent titles, The Legend of Grimrock, for example, had RPG traditionalists cheering in glee, but for me, it was just a throwback to the dozens of games I'd ignored previously. Likewise the ill-fated Hall/Braithwaite Kickstarter. Before Black Isle, the only RPG series I could claim to like was Ultima.

 

 

That's not really an answer, but I guess it's because I can't give any particularly profound reasons. I like the good RPGs because they're good games.

L I E S T R O N G
L I V E W R O N G

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I enjoy different CRPG's for different reasons. Some examples:

 

Narrative (PS:T, BG2, KotOR2, MotB, F:NV)

Exploration (BG, IWD, F:NV, Skyrim)

Combat (F1, F2, IWD, ToEE)

Character development (F1, F2, IWD2, ToEE, NWN2 series, F:NV)

Full party creation (IWD, IWD2, ToEE, SoZ)

Cinematic shootery action (ME1, ME2)

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The main thing i look for is the ability to deal with situations depending on your characters stats / skill and abilities and not just "Button mash and people explode!".

This dont mean that i dont play button mash people explode games once in a while.

I also look at choices and consequences and also the story / setting and world.

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The common reason is to play as a different people in a different world, have a different experience of stories or something others, say,I may be a knight till last month, but for this month, I am a "Living one" with a gun. Another is put character's of one game into another systems based game sometime may be fun. :biggrin:

Than there also be some special reason and that was depended by some unanticipated features: like the world setting of Arcanum, maybe some combat systems, a good look 45 angle camera plus a fine UI, even a good look screenshot would made me just have a check...

I have struggle to understand a Universe that allows the destruction of an entire planet. Which will win this endless conflict - destruction or creation? The only thing I know for certain is never to place your faith entirely on one side. Play the middle if you want to survive.

 

Everyone else is a fanatic. I am Gauldoth Half-Dead. Your savior.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I like just about everything to do with rpg's. The character creation; the exploration; and leveling up is a blast. I'm more into rpg's where I can have a party along instead of playing solo though. Just a lot more fun with all the interaction among members.

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If I were to try to explain the genre to someone who doesn't play games, I'd say it's somewhat like cowboys and indians or cops and robbers, taking on a role and pretending you're something else. I myself play roleplaying games because I find gameplay aspects such as freedom and control, etc. in video games compelling. Consequences have a follow-up role -- they're not so essential that they have to be the main focus, but they should emerge 'naturally' from the situations that befall your character. I could say that I like roleplaying games because they have something above 'gameplay' or all the mechanical aspects that make them compelling, not that I don't enjoy building my character.

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