Racial Speech Skill

[Osvir]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62190-martyr-like-paladinsaint/

In the Icewind Dale series, I nearly had the same enjoyment. IWD offers a background edit, full party customization and several other features which leave you to expand your imagination to fullfill your personal role. However, text choices for a Paladin class were merely present. For example, how would a Paladin-like figure speak with wild spirits, evil outter plane creatures and several other bizarre creations.

 

Now, this sparked a thought.. how does Aumaua talk? Are there chances for Race specific Speech techniques? Could it be a racial benefit if your Orlan knows a language you do not (for diplomatic purposes, or maybe even for that ancient deciphering of that ancient book)?

 

Would it or could it solve some balancing issues we've discussed in other "Speech Skill" related topics? Could Persuasion be specific to the Orlan's because they are born with the language of "Telepathy" or whatever?

[Jojobobo]

I think a language barrier might be interesting to introduce, forcing you to maybe hire a translator or have a certain companion to understand anything of what another culture is saying. I think culture specific, rather than race specific, language barriers would be the best - but of course some cultures could very well be entirely homogenous when it comes to races.

[GhostofAnakin]

Understanding various languages could be tied to the character's intelligence stat. The higher the stat, the more languages the character can recognize and successfully translate.

[Osvir]

I remember reading official statement and there being considerations on being able to start with a different culture (Arcanum style, so not necessarily different start locations, which I don't is excluded either)

 

The Al Bhed in Final Fantasy X is awesome, you just learn/collect it so slow. A quicker rate and easier rate would be cool. Perhaps finding and reading specific books will improve your characters Culture as well? (you should be able to inspect items in the loot interface, you can't in Baldur's Gate)..

 

Could/Should the Lore Book/Codex or Culture be a mechanic? I'm split.

 

I really like the idea of it relying on Intelligence, kind of like the "Understanding" of the "Culture". But then comes the question of Ciphers, can they communicate beyond Culture or beyond Intelligence? Could they communicate with "higher" beings in a way that no one else can? (A deity, as an example)

[PsychoBlonde]

I don't have a huge preference on how it is implemented mechanically (as long as it's done in an interesting way), but I do think having at least some language barriers in the game could add a lot. One potentially interesting mechanic might be to translate a certain number of words based on your character's Int or language skill, so then you, the player, get to try and figure out how to respond. So a low int character would get:

 

Fre selthenarl bi kath devre dragon mer elain!

 

whereas a high int character would get you:

 

You smell like kath devre dragon elain!

 

Whereas an actual member of the race/culture would get:

 

You smell like rancid dragon piss!

 

Edit: Although, it occurs to me that localizing this might be a nightmare.

Edited November 11, 2012 by PsychoBlonde

[Osvir]

Most likely... unless a fan would write it up in a really good way and it's all done and good and functional. Sounds like dialogue modding (post-release), but to make it really possible to do there needs to be some parameters that you can switch making every Orlan actually mechanically be of a certain Culture that has modifiable values a la "Won't understand much if I got 12 Intelligence"-

 

I'm wondering if an entire group synergy should decide together what kind of skills you have.

 

Do I initiate conversations as a single character or as an entire group? Can I use a Speech skill from Aloth even if my main character is the fronts person? Can it pop up in the conversation as a choice?

 

"Use Aloth's persuasion skill" type of thing or "Ask Aloth to answer" etc. etc.

 

EDIT: Use your Aumaua to translate for you (Dak'kon can do this for you in PS:T for his race, right?)

Edited November 11, 2012 by Osvir

[pzp11]

I think the language barrier issue is very realistic and should be incorporated. This brings in the interplay between your character and your party members more actively everytime when you enter a foreign town. I can see how it can lead to quests being solved or failed due to misunderstandings, etc.

 

At least my wizard should be able to speak some ancient languages.

[Orogun01]

This is the first thought that went through my head when I saw Racial Speech skill:

"Yo, sucka we'd all been chilling at the club when a big ass mutha****ing dragon comes in. And I was like damnnn that mutha is big we best haul ass outta here"

[Osvir]

Which makes me think of talking with a Dragon requires a specific... Skyrim already did this and no one seem to like it right? Nvm...

[BetrayTheWorld]

This is the first thought that went through my head when I saw Racial Speech skill:

"Yo, sucka we'd all been chilling at the club when a big ass mutha****ing dragon comes in. And I was like damnnn that mutha is big we best haul ass outta here"

 

Reminds me of city elves in armageddon. lol

[pzp11]

Which makes me think of talking with a Dragon requires a specific... Skyrim already did this and no one seem to like it right? Nvm...

 

 

I think one of the expansions in NWN had a 'dragonborn' or 'halfdragon' something as a class/trait (can't really remember what) but going this path allowed you to interact with dragons in ways others couldn't.

[AGX-17]

I think the language barrier issue is very realistic and should be incorporated. This brings in the interplay between your character and your party members more actively everytime when you enter a foreign town. I can see how it can lead to quests being solved or failed due to misunderstandings, etc.

 

At least my wizard should be able to speak some ancient languages.

 

They should be dead languages like Latin that aren't spoken by anyone but wizards, like how Latin is a dead language spoken only by the Catholic church and Latin teachers.

[Osvir]

Which makes me think of talking with a Dragon requires a specific... Skyrim already did this and no one seem to like it right? Nvm...

 

I think one of the expansions in NWN had a 'dragonborn' or 'halfdragon' something as a class/trait (can't really remember what) but going this path allowed you to interact with dragons in ways others couldn't.

 

Yeah that was kind of what I was going at it with it but... lots of people are dissing on it because they had a bad experience with dragons in Skyrim (and I understand it, I stopped playing Skyrim because of the dragons to be honest, they were mindless drooling mini-Archdemons and it was bad enough with Dragon Age: Origins). If the Dragons would have had a little bit more soul perhaps

[Jorian Drake]

Understanding various languages could be tied to the character's intelligence stat. The higher the stat, the more languages the character can recognize and successfully translate.

 

in most recent variants of D&D, especially Pathfinder is what I can relate to, you get as many free known languages at start as your modifier from a positive Int score (or, in some cases so much bonus languages as you have points over 10 in Int)

[Jorian Drake]

I think the language barrier issue is very realistic and should be incorporated. This brings in the interplay between your character and your party members more actively everytime when you enter a foreign town. I can see how it can lead to quests being solved or failed due to misunderstandings, etc.

 

At least my wizard should be able to speak some ancient languages.

 

They should be dead languages like Latin that aren't spoken by anyone but wizards, like how Latin is a dead language spoken only by the Catholic church and Latin teachers.

 

and the Vatican as a state.

 

Honestly, people should stop saying latin is a dead language, not just that a nation and religion uses it, but also by knightly orders and it is also heavily used in education and medicine.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Jorian Drake

[rjshae]

I'm not sure how practical it would be, but having a set of cultural modifiers to interpersonal skills might be an interesting way to reflect both language difficulties and regional distrust. If a party-based communication dialog is used, these modifiers could make different characters useful under varying circumstances. For example, that boorish half-orc barbarian with the unpleasant body odor may actually be useful when interfacing with goblinoid races. Likewise, you might not want the charming dwarf bard speaking up during negotiations with a race of dwarf-hating giants.

[Osvir]

How about more than one Human? Let's say I have 2 Humans in my party. Would that make my relations with the major Human faction better but would it also penalize me from another faction?

Edited November 13, 2012 by Osvir

[tajerio]

How about more than one Human? Let's say I have 2 Humans in my party. Would that make my relations with the major Human faction better but would it also penalize me from another faction?

 

Given the intermixing of races within cultures that Josh has mentioned in a couple of updates, I don't think we'll see something quite so simple as "the major Human faction."

[AGX-17]

I think the language barrier issue is very realistic and should be incorporated. This brings in the interplay between your character and your party members more actively everytime when you enter a foreign town. I can see how it can lead to quests being solved or failed due to misunderstandings, etc.

 

At least my wizard should be able to speak some ancient languages.

 

They should be dead languages like Latin that aren't spoken by anyone but wizards, like how Latin is a dead language spoken only by the Catholic church and Latin teachers.

 

and the Vatican as a state.

 

Honestly, people should stop saying latin is a dead language, not just that a nation and religion uses it, but also by knightly orders and it is also heavily used in education and medicine.

 

No, it is a dead language. Ask any linguist. Nobody speaks it colloquially. Nobody is born and raised speaking Latin. You have to choose to learn it or be given away as a child as a ward of the Catholic Church to be taught it. Nobody is a native speaker of Latin. It has been a dead language for over a thousand years. Nobody really knows how to pronounce Latin words, even.

 

Knightly orders? When the Queen of England knights somebody it's just a play, put on for show. Knights are as dead as Latin, and most real knights didn't speak a word of Latin because it was dead by the time medieval knights came around. The use of Latin in science is entirely technical and used for nomenclature purposes exclusively. Scientists do not speak to each other in Latin, and if it's any subject of public interest there's almost always a public colloquialism for it in English or whatever the native language is.

 

Written Latin was the basis for scholastic activities simply because it was seen as more civilized than a pidgin like English or a derivative such as French.

 

Just as much ancient Greek is used in science, and has contributed just as much to the English language as Latin (especially given how much Latin borrowed from ancient Greek.)

 

The reason the King James Bible was a milestone in history is because it was the first time in a thousand years the bible was written in a language other than Latin, which broke the Catholic Church's monopoly on salvation. The Catholic Church used Latin precisely because it is a dead language and nobody natively speaks it. The idea of common people being able to hear a sermon in their native tongue was an outrage to the Vatican at the time.

Edited November 13, 2012 by AGX-17

[HansKrSG]

I think the language barrier issue is very realistic and should be incorporated. This brings in the interplay between your character and your party members more actively everytime when you enter a foreign town. I can see how it can lead to quests being solved or failed due to misunderstandings, etc.

 

At least my wizard should be able to speak some ancient languages.

 

They should be dead languages like Latin that aren't spoken by anyone but wizards, like how Latin is a dead language spoken only by the Catholic church and Latin teachers.

 

and the Vatican as a state.

 

Honestly, people should stop saying latin is a dead language, not just that a nation and religion uses it, but also by knightly orders and it is also heavily used in education and medicine.

 

I retract my statement, I have read up on the subject, and I guess I must agree with AGX-17 after all.

Edited November 14, 2012 by HansKrSG

[.Leif.]

Hopefully the Aumaua will know how to gurgle a message to the Weresharks, "Don't eat us, we taste like rot".

I think given PE's funding having the characters (or party) only understand certain languages used by monsters or various factions would be interesting. You might take the Monk in a certain region because he could speak with the raiders. You might take the ranger because she can commune with the dryads. Want to talk to the giants? Take the Aumaua.

Perhaps the Cipher could speak all languages through telepathy.

 

Can we please not let the potential deadness of the Latin language derail this thread?

[Osvir]

Hopefully the Aumaua will know how to gurgle a message to the Weresharks, "Don't eat us, we taste like rot".

I think given PE's funding having the characters (or party) only understand certain languages used by monsters or various factions would be interesting. You might take the Monk in a certain region because he could speak with the raiders. You might take the ranger because she can commune with the dryads. Want to talk to the giants? Take the Aumaua.

Perhaps the Cipher could speak all languages through telepathy.

 

Can we please not let the potential deadness of the Latin language derail this thread?

 

This would promote the use of different classes and different races for a more broad playthrough. My last Baldur's Gate gameplay was... 1 Half-Orc, 3 Humans, 2 Elves... and I usually go about that type. Seldom do I use the Gnome, or the Dwarf, tbh. Likewise, having 4 Humans and 2 Elves in your group would give you an entirely different playthrough than having 1 Orcs, 1 Human, 2 Elves, 1 Dwarf and 1 Gnome. It would give more replayability (I think).

[Tethros]

I think this is a great idea, and would make for some really interesting gameplay. Yes, levels of language could definitely be implemented. Although it certainly could be frustrating to travel through an entire cityscape where you don't speak the same language as anyone else, it would make for a unique challenge, and maybe even open the door for some specific character builds (the word Laleomancer, came to mind, so I'll stick with that). And, of course, this difficulty could be mitigated by having their be a guild whose specialty would be to hire out translators for a given period of time. This, again would add another level of intrigue and challenge, as the internal politics of the language guild (League of Laleomancers?) could conflict with local politics, with the character's own interests, etc.

 

Ok, I'm getting too wrapped up in this. But in short, yes, different languages would make for unique gameplay.

[Osvir]

A Translator sounds like an awesome feature to have, a temporary party member that you have to pay over time for his/her services. Perhaps there could be diplomats and translator in cities where there is a language you can't understand. So at first you get to the town and no one understand you and you don't understand anyone, so you get directed to the translator through some gibberish language, unless you have a party member that does understand the language. Of course, depends on how this town/village/place looks outsiders. You might start some cultural war against their tradition because you did something wrong (You'd be warned in Gibberish too of course, so you'd get a chance to not get sent into a war with the town/village, but if you repeat yourself over and over again doing the same abuse/breaking rules you'd get a hostile village after you).

[obsidiansquid]

It's a decent idea, but I think that actual implementation would prove it to be convoluted and annoyingly limiting in game